Supper music...
We are all pretty excited about the GIO interactive Burns supper on Wednesday night and I hope that lots of you will 'play' along. You provide the haggis and we will take care of everything else.
There will be an element of live music in the show but I also would like your help in compiling the playlist. Obviously we want a fair smattering of the Bard's best works but we want to keep that same mix that we normally get on the show. So, who are the contemporary scots who might have gained the critical approval of Rabbie?
From King Creosote to Amy McDonald there's a huge list of talented young Scots who could fit the bill.
Feel free to post over the next few days as we won't be taking request on the night. We are looking forward to seeing what you come up with as the bloggers do Burns...
Comment number 1.
At 20th Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Can I suggest my old childhood pal and Iron Horse / Tannahill Weavers fame...
O Poortith Cauld / My Eppie Adair ~ Ross Kennedy
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Comment number 2.
At 20th Jan 2012, dale_kelvin wrote:rabbie would well approve of lily allen.
she is poetic, witty and makes some quite sharp social commentary.
and can be quite bawdy in a cockney sort of way.
and burns wouldave fancied her.
rabbie ma man,i concur.
'him'.........................lily allen
dale_kelvin
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Comment number 3.
At 20th Jan 2012, dale_kelvin wrote:#2 and like a' sed
cheers frae the dale
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Comment number 4.
At 20th Jan 2012, dale_kelvin wrote:what about a song that sounds so burns like that when i first heard it i thought it must be a burns song.
its not, a lady from perthshire wrote it.
but non the less brilliant for it.
'land o' the leal'......................andy m stuart
cheers frae the dale
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Comment number 5.
At 20th Jan 2012, dale_kelvin wrote:#3 for the sake o'argument lets just say lily is scots......i've been thinkin o' gettin my eyes tested for a while noo.
cheers frae the dale
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Comment number 6.
At 20th Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:#2-5
Conclusive proof dale_kelvin is Henri Hannah
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Comment number 7.
At 21st Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:No, I'm ericinelgin.
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Comment number 8.
At 21st Jan 2012, Kene Gelly wrote:apt on so many fronts (both artist and song) ...
'No Gods and Precious Few Heroes' ~~ Dick Gaughan
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Comment number 9.
At 21st Jan 2012, Kene Gelly wrote:or ...
a song written by
Hamish Henderson, the Scottish poet, songwriter, and intellectual,
and sung by
Richard Peter Gaughan
'The Freedom Come All Ye'
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Comment number 10.
At 21st Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:Young?
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Comment number 11.
At 21st Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Gun Yo?
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Comment number 12.
At 21st Jan 2012, DC wrote:Y un go?
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Comment number 13.
At 21st Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Yo gnu
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Comment number 14.
At 21st Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:Glossary:
Young - Never heard of 'em
Contemporary - Still alive
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Comment number 15.
At 21st Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:What about this by Burns' contemporary Robert Tannahill? The band (and some of us) were young at the time.
- The Byrds
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Comment number 16.
At 21st Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Why not. Reckon this thread needs all the support the Blogotariat can muster!
P.S. I was born in Paisley.
P.P.S. What's the theme for Monday?
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Comment number 17.
At 21st Jan 2012, joe-k-brown wrote:#16 - Mad mac - Bryan Burnett is looking for your help to create a housework playlist.
Whistle while you work - Snow White + 7
More to follow
Joe
Linlithgow
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Comment number 18.
At 21st Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Hey Joe, Wonder if Rammstein's Sonne will pass muster this time LOL!
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Comment number 19.
At 21st Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:#16
Okay, let's try and help out here. This is a brave, bold move by the production team.
I have difficulty with the traditional Burns thing: it's completely overdone, they pile it on too thick.
I'm one of those who preferred my Eddie Reader singing 'The Moon Is Mine' and suchlike. I just don't dig most Burns suppers, man, and all the jive talkin that goes down there.
The trouble with most of them is, ironically, all they have to offer is Burns: a lecture about Burns and Wimminfolk and a lecture about Burns and socialism. And endless Tam O'Shanter - again- bored rigid, my boozing starts in earnest at this point.
Except I don't expect the ´óÏó´«Ã½ foyer will be brimming with booze, but in offering something other than Burns, GIO has opened the possibility of an entertaining concept - trouble is, they want it all Scottish.
But, if my undersdtanding is correct, Burns was an internationalst - a man's a man and all that guff - songs that are appropriate are:
Imagine - John Lennon
Halleljah Man - Love & Money
500 Miles - the Procalimers
Dignity - Deacon Blue
Mull Of Kintyre- Paul McCartney
Sunshine Of Your Love - Cream
Thriller - Michael Jackson
Hotel California - The Eagles
Alexandra Leaving - Leonard Cohen
Last year the Blogotariat composed an amusing Get It On Tam O'Shanter - it would have been fitting if this had been read at the GIO Burns supper.It would cheer the proceedings up.
DC - could you not turn up and deliver it?
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 20.
At 21st Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:DC, did you apply for tickets?
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Comment number 21.
At 21st Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:Other things that are appropriate are:
1 -Anything that speaks of or promotes international socialism, probably folky things.
2 -Lefty Country Artists like Steve Earle and left leaning rockers like Neil Young or anything politically motovated that is favoured by Guardian readers
4 - Ghost stories
3 - Songs or Artists that celebrate or promote men with a voacious sexual appetite, like Neil Sedaka or Rod Stewart.
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 22.
At 21st Jan 2012, gaie wrote:well that's us told, eh?
I haven't been to many Burns' suppers, but those that I have attended were great fun - maybe I mix in different circles.
And one of my happy childhood memories is of my first trip on my own to stay with Gran in Millport. Dad's cousin Bob visited us and completely enthralled me by reciting Tam O'Shanter. I hero-worshipped 6'6'' Bob for a while after that! We did a lot of Burns at school and I loved it.
appropriate to my first hearing of Tam O'Shanter in a convoluted way
Two Bridges - Bwani Junction - Dan Muir, guitarist and Bob's grandson
also
Falter Discover - This Silent Forest - love this especially
Mariana - The Imagineers
Latha Math - Manran
I Am - Aerials Up
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Comment number 23.
At 21st Jan 2012, DC wrote:#19 & 20 I won't be at Pacific Quay, I'm putting my tuppence worth in at the Cellardyke Burns Supper, tickets still available at £15. All welcome. We tend to focus on entertainment at our events.
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Comment number 24.
At 21st Jan 2012, FrankInDenny wrote:Jerry Burns ~~ Angel
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Comment number 25.
At 21st Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:#22 I forgot to put the :-)) at the end of my post, tongue firmly in cheek.
I empathise with the meaning in Burns work, like everyone else.
To be fair, I've been to plenty of perfectly good fun Burns evenings and enjoyed them, but there are some that take it all too seriously and I get bored rigid.
Keep it light.
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 26.
At 21st Jan 2012, DC wrote:OK, perhaps we need tae give Bryan a hand. Let's get the event underway (assuming Poosie Babs has been piped in wi the playlist)
Fair fa' yer honest sonsie face,
Great Chieftans o' the Blogging Race,
Abune them aw ye tak yer place,
Mail, Text or Facebook,
Aw your music is good taste,
Fae Gong tae Dr Hook
to be continued......
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Comment number 27.
At 21st Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:Perhaps this theme should be .
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Comment number 28.
At 21st Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Wow! Burns Signature.
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Comment number 29.
At 21st Jan 2012, joethejamman wrote:I reckon Burns would have got on well with Gallagher and Lyle.
Seeds or Among The Birks
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Comment number 30.
At 21st Jan 2012, gaie wrote:#26
Springsteen, Bowie, Floyd and PIL
Kassidy, Lulu, Jansch and Tull
We mak' oor lists, we mak' them still
Tho' themes repeat
Of space and colours we've had oor fill
Lost jotter indeed!
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Comment number 31.
At 21st Jan 2012, joethejamman wrote:Now We're Thru-The Poets( ah know,stretchin' it a wee bit)
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Comment number 32.
At 21st Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:WEDNESDAY
Written by Ian Anderson, (born Dunfermline, Fife, on the 10th. of August 1947), inspired by Burns' poem
"To a Mouse, on Turning Her Up in Her Nest with the Plough"
One Brown Mouse - Jethro Tull
Re: Burns' Suppers; Never been to one. I can't abide haggis or blended whisky. In fact, I don't recall anyone with whom I grew up ever mentioning having been to one. Seems to me they are an excuse for businessmen to go networking in kilts.
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Comment number 33.
At 21st Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:#31
The Poets are contemporary. They reformed last year and are reported to have a gig in April.
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Comment number 34.
At 21st Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:#32
Some might say its more like brotherly love than networking 8-0
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Comment number 35.
At 21st Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:#21
Henri,
Neil Sedaka?!?
Shurely shome mishtake!
;o)
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Comment number 36.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:Ìý
Burns Supper - Richard Thompson
His faither wis Scottish. Dis that coont?
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Comment number 37.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:#34
SPORRANS "Я" US
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Comment number 38.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:Lemme try that again...
SPORRANS "Я" US
>8-D
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Comment number 39.
At 22nd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:#35
It was Neil Sedaka who was the inspiration (or was it perspiration) for Carol King's " I Feel The Earth Move".
"He gave me something to sing about" said King.
On the subject of the earth moving, Norrie must have had an orgasmic experience in the ABC1 tonight when The Big Dish closed with All The Young Dudes.
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 40.
At 22nd Jan 2012, DC wrote:#30 keep it goin
OK, my wee suggestion for Scots stuff
Fields of Fire - Big Country (12" version has a brilliant intro)
Farewell - Rod Stewart
Arms of Mary - Sutherland Brothers & Quiver
Thorn in my side - Annie Lennox
Broken Down Angel - Nazareth
Into the valley - The Skids
Sunset Cowboy - Stone the Crows
Breakaway - Gallagher & Lyle
Baker Street - Gerry Rafferty
Just like honey - Jesus & Mary Chain
Acid Rain - John Martyn
Waterfront - Simple Minds
Anthem - Sensational Alex Harvey Band
Caledonia - Frankie Miller
I just wanna rock - Travis
Country Girl - Primal Scream
Oh Jean - Proclaimers
Don't keep passing me by - Rab Noakes
Run - Amy MacDonald
Fishermans Blues - Waterboys
Rock 'n' roll train - AC/DC
Black horse & the cherry tree - K T Tunstall
Lon Dubh - Julie Fowlis
Last request - Paolo Nutini
Do you want to - Franz Ferdinand
Cruel Moon - Glasvegas
Run - Snow Patrol
Regardez yooz
DC
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Comment number 41.
At 22nd Jan 2012, gaie wrote:Fair fa' yer honest sonsie face,
Great Chieftans o' the Blogging Race,
Abune them aw ye tak yer place,
Mail, Text or Facebook,
Aw your music is good taste,
Fae Gong tae Dr Hook
Springsteen, Bowie, Floyd and PIL
Kassidy, Lulu, Jansch and Tull
We mak' oor lists, we mak' them still
Tho' themes repeat
Of space and colours we've had oor fill
Lost jotter indeed!
Folk tell o whit they're aboot tae eat
Risotto or quiche, langoustine or meat
A glass o' wine seems the norm no' a treat
Nae common ale!
In kitchens a' ower they jig tae the beat
or text wi' a tale
No' a' folks are eagerly clearing their plate
Some drivin' hame or stuck on the M8
Or rushin' wi' weans tryin' no' tae be late
To karate class
It helps when the songs and tunes are a' greaaayyyt
Then we're no sae fasht
We tune in efter six wi' oor lugs pinned back
We're hopin' tae hear that favourite track
We've ploughed our collection, looked through the stack
Spotified or Googled
We want sangs and mair sangs, nae yakety yak
Keep the gigglin' frugal!
TBC.......
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Comment number 42.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:#21, #35, #39
Henri,
I did not know that! Although, come to think of it, Oh! Carol was written by Neil for Carole.
(I like the version).
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Comment number 43.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:#42
(Covered by Rabbi Burns).
>8-D
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Comment number 44.
At 22nd Jan 2012, gaie wrote:#32 all around the country, small communities are enjoying a night of entertainment in the dark days of January. As I say, different circles.....
a band from the home of the Mother Club:
A Dear Green Place by My Latest Novel
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Comment number 45.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:#38 Like the Bard, Passed & Raised ;-/
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Comment number 46.
At 22nd Jan 2012, norriemaclean wrote:#39 I did Henri. My wee letter to Mr Lindsay paid off. Saw Frank (in fine form as ever, the man is a gentleman) but could not spit youze luvbirds.
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Comment number 47.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Trust you cleaned up afterwards!
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Comment number 48.
At 22nd Jan 2012, paolopablo wrote:#21 #35 #39 #42
Carol king also recorded a song called Oh Neil.
Neil sedaks always maintained it should have been oh kneel.
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Comment number 49.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:Ìý
I'm bored now. When are we gonna get our housework thread?
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Comment number 50.
At 22nd Jan 2012, paolopablo wrote:#22 seconds for
Still a handful of tickets for King tuts on 11th feb
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Comment number 51.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:Ìý
Ae lend kiss
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Comment number 52.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:#50
I'll be at home clearing the mantlepiece to make room for all my cards.
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Comment number 53.
At 22nd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:#46
Well, I'm probably not alone in being taken aback at how busy it was - there was a guy we were nattering to in the upstairs bar who was astonished by the size of the crowd - they all looked like Bryan and Babs (who should have been there along with all the other 80's kids) I was almost tempted to go to Club Tropicana after the gig, but we settled for chomping in Gambrino on Great Western Road.
As usual, it takes us so long get anywhere we came in just as the band came on and then had to try and figure out a decent place to stand - which resulted in moving from the upstairs bar, to the back near the entrance (which was fine) to the raised platform down the left hand side where we found ourselves with Billy Sloan, who was singing along and knew all the words. The sound wasn't so good there but we were very close to the stage and could really see the band up close.
They were on fine form but I can't recall hearing Faith Healer or European Rain which I'd been looking forward to. Steven and Brian were excellent, obviously, but I really like the drummer - wonder what Frank thought?
Last week I was pondering why bands like this weren't massive: last night only added to my being perplexed - and I'm sure Steven is - he alluded to it - referring to his 'solo career's march to obscurity, two five star albums nobody bought' and when I listen to the music they seem to have everything going for them. When I go and see them I'm tempted to think that,however gifted, maybe there is something else that they could bring to the party - it's got something to do with 'performance' - more communication with the audience would have been nice - but I'm not being critical, it was a truly great gig.
Sorry I missed Frank and yourself - Bryan and Babs,you missed a stoater.... Jack Bruce/Lau next.
regardez - youse
henri
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Comment number 54.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:Ìý
I hope you told Billy that Scotch was asking after his wee sister.
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Comment number 55.
At 22nd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:#54 He lives in a flat above one of my pals, so I'll remember the next time I bump into him.
#22/50 - also massive 3rd for Aerials Up - I watched the you tube clip - very impressive - will try to get to the King Tut's gig.
#48 -yes, behind the barathea blazer with the silver buttons and the white polo neck jumper resides a sexual dynamo of a man who should definitely be played on Burns night in preference to Rod Stewart - maybe Carol King's 'I Feel The Earth Move' should be the reply form the lassies.
Scottish bands with relevance to Burns:
The Big Dish - Jean Burns was big on someone called Jean - if I remember correctly. Nice song.
Weird Of Hermiston - Jack Bruce brilliant.
reagrdez youse
henri
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Comment number 56.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:#49 Agreed! @ #16
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Comment number 57.
At 22nd Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:Weir of Hermiston - exactly 100 years after Burns' death - what are the chances of that?
Rabbie's great great grand nephew managed Cliff Richard and discovered Dusty Springfield.
It looks as if it's going to be a really busy night.
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Comment number 58.
At 22nd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:Funnily enough, Kevin McCarra in the Guardian raises similar thoughts about Burns Suppers, on Saturday. After thinking about his article and a bit of messing about - I think the Scottish band that most captures the spirit of Burns are Admiral Fallow.
The song Taste The Coast - Admiral Fallow is probably the song which most captures the atmosphere of Burns, in modernity, I think.It's also quite peculiarly Scottish sounding.
It capature the two moods of our nation, raucous and solemn,rapturous and stoic, in the one song.
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 59.
At 22nd Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:It certainly sounds peculiar.
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Comment number 60.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:MONDAY
Ìý
"Dirty linen isn't all that starts to shine,
In rubber gloves and faded jeans you still look fine..."
Ìý
Scullery - Clifford T. Ward
Too risqué? Oh, all right then! Play this one instead...
Get Your Buisquits in the Oven and Your Buns in the Bed - Kinky Friedman
>8-D
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Comment number 61.
At 22nd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:WEDNESDAY
Ananinginaneana - Saint Andrew
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Comment number 62.
At 22nd Jan 2012, joe-k-brown wrote:Pick up the pieces - AWB
Housewife - the Cribs
Nobody does it better - Carly Simon
I'll work for your love - Springsteen
Joe
Linlithgow
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Comment number 63.
At 23rd Jan 2012, gaie wrote:housework
Lux be a Lady Tonight - Frank Sinatra
Daz the Way I Like it - KC and the Sunlight band
When a Man Loves a Woman - Persil Pledge
From Ajax to a King - Elvis Presley
Song for Hoover - Beautiful South
Flash - Queen
Boom Cilit Bang - Lulu
Surf In USA - The Bleach Boys
Harpic Valley PTA - Jeannie C. Riley
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Comment number 64.
At 23rd Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:Hoover You With Last Night? - Chas & Dave
Tumbling Dyson - Ruby Vax
or anything from Zanussi The World by Queen
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Comment number 65.
At 23rd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:Housework:
Clean Up Woman - Betty Wright
..
more to follow.
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Comment number 66.
At 23rd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:Housework
Another Little Piece Of My Heart - or I'm Coming Home Again - Dusty Springfield
Dust Bowl - Jow Bonamassa
Dust On The Dancefllor - the Leisure Society
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 67.
At 23rd Jan 2012, dale_kelvin wrote:time o' the year tae get yer windaes done up nice
'when i'm cleaning windows'...................george formby
cheers frae the dale
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Comment number 68.
At 23rd Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:- David Lindley & Ry Cooder - From the oft-requested yet unheard Zevon tribute album
- Warren Zevon - Housework as therapy
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Comment number 69.
At 23rd Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:#1
Coincidentally, I was at school with The Tannahill Weavers' Roy Gullane but I have to say I don't remember him. We invited him to our 50th anniversary reunion last year along with B. A. Robertson. Both of them, it appears, were busy but we raised a glass to them anyway.
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Comment number 70.
At 23rd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:just remebered:
Yakety Yak - The Coasters
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 71.
At 23rd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:and
Dirty Work - Steely Dan
This Woman's Work - Kate Bush
...but I suppose Yakety Yak is the ultimate housework song?
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 72.
At 23rd Jan 2012, gaie wrote:- Dr John - this'll get you through the housework in jig-time
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Comment number 73.
At 23rd Jan 2012, paolopablo wrote:Cleaning windows / Van Morrison
Dust in the Wind / Kansas
Girls on the bleach / Bleach boys
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Comment number 74.
At 23rd Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:#69
Small world.
I grew up and went to school with Ross circa '66-'78. Having left the "scheme" during '77 and leaving school we drifted apart. I then met him again in the Apollo circa '79 and failed to keep the promises made. Next time I clapped eyes on him was at my cousins wedding reception in the Hunterian early 90's and was introduced the Annie Grace, Gavin Marwick, Lynn Morrison & Rod Paul. Enjoyed their company for several years, usually in the C C Club, Central Hotel courtesy of a mutual friend who was a sales rep for one the Scottish independent labels. Eventually, lost touch when he left for the Argyle Peninsula.
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Comment number 75.
At 23rd Jan 2012, henri hannah wrote:#74
Are we talking about Ross Kennedy, who plays traditional things on a guitar?
Anyway - Mrs Bartolozzi - Kate Bush a song about a washing machine, or rather, the very special relationship between a woman and her washing machine.
I remember as a child we had a twin tub which would dance all round the kitchen..
Can you imagine the state of kitchens throughout our small nation if Get It On had been around then? Sam Costa just didn't generate such excitement.
regardez youse
henri
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Comment number 76.
At 23rd Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:#74
The Argyle Peninsula - a bar I've never been in.
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Comment number 77.
At 23rd Jan 2012, DC wrote:Mrs Robinson - Simon & Garfunkel
(a film starring Dustin Hoffman)
Ach it's been a busy day & not had time to think
DC
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Comment number 78.
At 23rd Jan 2012, DC wrote:#76
Small world, neither have I
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Comment number 79.
At 23rd Jan 2012, Scotch Get wrote:MONDAY
We don't hear enough Shel Silverstein compositions on this show...
One's on the Way -
Ìý
Put another Log on the Fire -
Keep it Country!
:o)
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Comment number 80.
At 23rd Jan 2012, Will Power wrote:Monday
Echo & The Bunnymen - Do It Clean
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Comment number 81.
At 23rd Jan 2012, Will Power wrote:Monday
Siouxsie & The Banshees - Cities in Dust
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Comment number 82.
At 23rd Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:#76 Ach, you dunno whit yer missin' "Mull of Kintyre" is on the juke-box LOL!
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Comment number 83.
At 23rd Jan 2012, ericinelgin wrote:And
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Comment number 84.
At 23rd Jan 2012, Madmacfaeclydebank wrote:Mondays mess
Big Mess ~ DEVO
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Comment number 85.
At 23rd Jan 2012, Daddyrugbytaxi wrote:Hello ALL
Sadly not sucessful with my ticket request....not randomly pulled out of the hat and so had my burns food on Saturday....
Coq a leekie soup
Haggis, Neeps & Tatties
Cranochan
washed down with a few malts.......
As to music....there are many possibilities, both Scottish and from the other side of the World...that Messers Burns may approve of....
How about :
John Farham from Oz, 1986 and Your the Voice......apt lyrics and bagpipes
Calvin Harris......Feel so Close
Trashcan Sinatra's......I wish you'd met her
Boo Hewedrine....New Years Eve or Patience of Angels
DRT
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Comment number 86.
At 25th Jan 2012, dale_kelvin wrote:noo,
listen up ye haggis heids.
ah might be gone,
but ahm still no' deid.
(1) this fellow kiltie citizens' o' thon great allaba is a grand redition o' wan o' ma best.
'a man's a man for a' that'......................the laggan
(2) noo' a' ken there's no' verra much o' ma stuff done in they skools, so this is a cheeky wee wan (naw, no' u jeannie ma dearie), it's always guid tae lift yeir heid oot yer tatties and neep tae see there is a world ootside o' thon allaba place, ye' dinnae even hav tae memorise the words on this version.....i'll jist gie the man his his name an' no his sundae wan (this is scoatland at T time son, we dinnae want any borra)
'auld lang syne'...........................scott west (the rest has been self moderated)
cheers frae the dale
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