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Gartsides plan has been shot down. I wouldn't mind seeing the Old Firm in the EPL, but not a price of locking out teams from outside an EPL1 and 2.

If they want to help promoted teams in the EPL, they ought to look at newly promoted teams being safe from relegation for their first season or two - that would allow them to build up their squads, whilst also making teams who habitually hover just above the relegation places somewhat antsy as being outside of the bottom three would no longer be a guarantee of avoiding the drop for already established sides.

Perhaps a full merger between Scottish and English FA's could be looked at? Rather than just the Old Firm gaining access to the English leagues money, let the whole of Scottish football have a go? I know the SFA value their independence, but Scottish footballs in a mess, and surely such a concept would be better than an Atlantic League or the Old Firm departing the SPL?

It'd mean creating another couple of leagues to accommodate the extra clubs though.

I agree, F-C, sounds like a good idea to me.
Chris, do you think we have too many professional clubs in Scotland for our size? Especially these days when each and every one of them seem to be this close to bankruptcy.

Chris, I like your idea for the pyramid system, and for increasing the size of the SPL, and the silly rule of 6,000 all seater stadium, but the only thing I would differ with you on, is saying that the only sell out's are against the OF...As a Dundee United supporter I can tell you that we havent sold out a game against either side of the Forces of Darkness for some seasons now...we get bigger crowds against Aberdeen and Dundee...enjoy reading your blogs though...

Frank Castle and camp6ell - Sorry cannot agree with your plans in any shape or form...Scottish football is in no worse a situation than it has been for the last 10 years or so...the EPL and English football League is teetering on the brink of financial ruin with several clubs staving off the the threat of administration just and no more...we will stay where we are thank you very much...

Good read this week.

I have to agree with you that the 6000 rule is stupid. A club like QoS shouldn't be spending money they probably don't have. Just make a requirement for a minimum of 2000 spaces for away supporters and a club can have any capacity they want.

A few weeks ago when you mentioned a pyramid system I suggested a precursor to it must surely be regionalization of the 2nd & 3rd Divs, with a 2nd Div North and a 2nd Div South. This would greatly reduce travelling costs for clubs like Annan, Stranraer, Elgin, Peterhead etc and increase the chances of local matches. Steven Thompson of Dundee Utd also mentioned it within the last week. Do you agree that such a change would benefit Annan ? Surely travelling costs would be halved !

Chris,

In Scotland, the football business is full of 'jobs for the boys' with many club owners unwilling to accommodate change and trigger a pyramid structure.

In Scotland, we have the SFA, SPL and the SFL when in other countries, such as Norway there i one unifying and relevant football authority.

In Scotland, we have one of the very few leagues in Europe where there is only one team eligible for promotion to the top division...not even a play off position!

In Scotland, each season brings uninformed, deeply-controversial decisions devoid of all common-sense. Think: Livingston debacle; ridiculous youth team elimination for Dundee, Ross & Dunfermline; Scotland with the SFA (as a 2nd seeded team) playing Macedonia away in the summer afternoon and Norway before our season has started but 17 games into the Norwegian season...the list is endless.

Finally, in Scotland, the un-elected quangos running our game are slowly running the great game into the ground: shame on you.

1. At 2:24pm on 12 Nov 2009, Frank-Castle wrote:

Perhaps a full merger between Scottish and English FA's could be looked at? Rather than just the Old Firm gaining access to the English leagues money, let the whole of Scottish football have a go? I know the SFA value their independence, but Scottish footballs in a mess, and surely such a concept would be better than an Atlantic League or the Old Firm departing the SPL?

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Interesting idea, though I can't see the away turnout being very good for fixtures such as Torquay vs Inverness Caley for instance. (a 1200 mile round trip for those who are wondering)

It's simply ridiculous that there isn't a unified model for Scottish league football by now. That there are three separate governing bodies for the senior competitions is certainly a major contributor to that problem. Unfortunately with a weak and ineffective Scottish Executive there's nothing which can really be done to really press reforms through.

There's no reason that a nation of over three million people can't support fifty-odd league teams. The EPL has the same problems with top-loading onto a tiny number of mega-rich teams as the SPL does, but the English pyramid is far more dynamic in general than the Scottish leagues (where in the last few years promotion and relegation have been tied more to teams going out of business than actual results).

Merging the SPL and the EPL would be very difficult though, even discounting the resistance from the blazer squad. Look at the Scottish First Division - this is a league which regularly punts players to the English Championship, which is the fifth richest league in Europe, and yet it supports teams who aren't full time and can have home gates of less than a thousand. The Blue Square Premier can beat that. That makes it very difficult to determine where the likes of Queens (who really do deserve a shot in the SPL) would fit into a unified league structure.

@Jon

I see your point about the financial issues in England, but given the larger amount of money available, would it not be an opportunity for a well-run Scottish club to show us south of the border a thing or two? ;)

Plus, from what I hear and read, a few SPL teams aren't in the rudest of fiscal health.

I disagree with the state of Scottish football, looking at Rangers and Celtic in Europe and the fact Scotland haven't qualified for the WC or Euro's for some time, something is amiss.

Money may not be the solution, but I suspect it'll help, as will being in larger and more competitive leagues.

@Starfire_995

Aye, long journeys would be a pain - but already you have the prospect of Plymouth vs Newcastle, which comes in at over two-thirds of that.

With distance, any league involving Scottish teams will have problems due to the difference in road density (no bad thing if you ask me!), even the a pyramid structure opens up the prospect of Thurso vs Stranraer...

A pyramid structure would be a good idea, though why the SFL claim it would take "years" is beyond me. I agree and have said before, it is madness that Scottish football has three governing bodies.

The SFL and SFA should be ashamed of themselves. They are archaic associations and I find it ridiculous that there is no promotion relegation from the bottom 3rd division. Ludicrous! It's heartening to hear that they are finally reconsidering their stance on the situation but my heart goes out to the teams who continue to top the leagues below but can't get promoted because of the petty rules of the fat cats at the top of the SFA and SFL pyramids. Let's face it, East Stirlingshire who have finished bottom of the table on many occasions should have been relegated from the Scottish football league a long time ago.

Also, I find the whole idea of just the OF joining the EPL rather silly. After all the SPL, and its old format the Scottish First Division, has so much history and so much to be proud about. Let's not forget Scotland has an increbily rich footballing history and is one of the founding father's of the beautiful game.

If JUST the OF were to leave at the drop of the hat and join the EPL what would happen to the rest of Scottish football? I fear for the worst! If you think the Setanta TV deal collapse was a catastrophe then think again, the OF moving south would be cataclysmic for the rest of the Scottish football league!

I do like 'F-Castle's' input on the issue. Combine both the English and Scottish football league's. This would invaluably help the Scottish clubs who desperately need to halt the stagnation of Scottish football by greatly increasing TV revenue and interest. Also, the argument of 'Scottish football would die off if the OF left' would be directly addressed and the EPL would be a greater spectacle because of the OF.

Finally, Plymouth Argyle fans have been voted the best fans in the English football League. They travel all over the country regularly and I'm sure the Argyle fans out there can testify that travelling long distances wouldn't be too much of a problem. France, Germany, Spain, Italy and Russia are larger countries the the UK and there fans seems to do alright.

However, it's absolutely imperative that when it comes to international footie England is England, Wales is Wales, N.Ireland is N.Ireland and Scotland is SCOTLAND! Nothing else will suffice. End of.

I have to agree that a pyramid system for Scottish Football has long been needed. Lower league football is sometimes a little stale and there are certain clubs that have no ambition whatsoever. Why shouldn't non-leauge clubs have the chance to replace them. As a Gretna2008 fan I would obviously welcome opening up the 3rd Division! I can't see SPL clubs voting to extend the SPL and in the process decreasing the amount of home games against the Old Firm and, in turn, their revenue.

I know that Scottish Football does not allow Celtic and, to a lesser extent Rangers, to realise their potential in terms of revenue, but they are Scottish clubs and as such should play in Scotland.

One idea that I think should be implemented would be to scrap the league cup north and south of the border as no one really cares about it. They could replace it with a British Cup whihc would surely be more attarctive to both sponsors and supporters alike. They could have the first few rounds regionally (like the Johnstone's Paint Trophy) to help smaller clubs with travelling expenses. I think it would be a very interesting competition. I don't think it would be one that would threaten either country's national side either.

Unfortuntely, due to crowd trouble involving Rangers' UEFA Cup Final appearance and the possibility of similar trouble between any clubs, I don't think it would happen.

Love the idea of a British Cup, GP.
As for travelling large distances, I would support regional lower leagues to avoid huge distances for the poorer clubs.

Hi Chris, I was up with my uni in a big country house last weekend and a group of us decided to go see a local football game, and sure enough it was Forfar against Annan we ended up with.

We sat (or stood) next to the Annan fans, who seemed a great bunch, and we enjoyed the football on show.

The ref was shocking for starters, but you say the Forfar goals were in a 'crazy' spell, you should elaborate to the people what the Annan goal was like!

The Forfar goalkeeper ran out to collect a ball but I think it was outside the box so he was caught, a Forfar defended running in then decided to head the ball towards his own goal! It was going in but before it did an Anna striker ran in and booted it in anyway, cue celebrations.

Annan should have equalised about 70 mins in when someone put a shot past the post from all of 10 yards.

Forfar's number 4 took a lot of abuse for having a moustache, and some funny chants were sung which I can't publish on here.

All in all good day out.

Good stuff, the pyramid plan. I remember having a train journey down south earlier this year, and with four or five hours to burn I managed to put together a couple of pyramid systems with relative ease. Just the SFL, other senior SFA (Highland/East/South leagues), and juniors (perhaps contentious, but certainly the way to go after allowing them into the Scottish Cup), gives you a good-sized system that runs to between 7 and 9 tiers (depending on how many teams you put in each league). It would be much better for all those smaller clubs with ambition.