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I think cities bidding for 2020 were more influenced by the current economic climate. Further it is highly unlikely an American city would succeed in 2020 so soon after thegames were held in South America. Cities are normally awarded re geographical area. Hence it never goes to a european city, immediately after another European city has held it. I realise Brazil is in South America, but North America, at l,east in a sporting context is normally batched in the same pool.

Barcelona greatly benefitted through a rejuvenation of the city as a whole. I first visited Barcelona in 1989 and have been 16 times since, including the summer of 1992. The City, other than it's main tourist attractions has chaged immensely. The raval area and barcelonetabeing two prime expamples.

The fact is no-one cares about athletics, and a small percentage of the population only gives a jot once every four years. At the end of the day, athletics is dull and all athletes operate under suspicion after years of well publicised drug scandals. As a non londoner I did not want this expensive bore fest and will let it pass me by without a seconds thought.

It's a good job LOCOG have got the tickets sorted - the legacy will follow sooner than you realise...

The Beijing Olympic Games were about Beijing, and about China - much as the Moscow Games were about the Soviet Union, The LA Games about the United States, the Soeul Games about South Korea, and Asia.

All Games that were, first and foremost, a showcase for the host of the hosts values and importance.

The London Games, if we are lucky, will be less about London, and more about the Olympics - i.e. the sport. Certainly the Coe vision gives us hope for that. That's where the success of Barcelona and Sydney lay - yes, they were an ad for Catelonia and Sydney, but more so, they were an embrace of sport for sports sake, and the ability of sport to lift a neighbourhood, and a country - and wonderful for it

So I for one will not mourn the disappearance of the Games as a National Statement of importance - but welcome back the idea of a festival of colour and youth, which itself brightens the host, who in turn let that brightness out.

As to the 'architectureal vision' - leaving aside my deep distrust of architects generally - you're a paid employee, do what you're asked, not some mad vision of your own - One has to realise the sheer size of London is such that it cannot rejig the whole city - London dwarfs barcelona, sydney or athens.

I can't help but wonder that one of the reasons why Greece is in so much financial ruin is bacause the IOC held the country hostage to upgrade their entire infrastructure through public financing.

It's just another opportunity for the seemingly patriotic ego to carve out space and express its 'greatness'. It will be all over in a few weeks. The banners, advertisements and logos that are shoved down our throats will be taken out and replaced with shampoo adverts and free international calls to Poland.

Although I appreciate the long term future of the main stadium is still up for grabs, I do think London's blueprint of using a number of temporary venues e.g. Basketball arena, Water Polo Arena should be praised & must be the way forward for future games.

Fascinating article, particularly - speaking as a PE teacher - the point that participation decreases.

I believe that elite sport is so unattainable for the majority that it deters rather than motivates those who watch (much as they may enjoy watching).

I once ran a rowing machine challenge to 'Beat Redgrave's score' at the London Boat Show. The idea was to encourage people to try rowing, instead one after another who had a go turned away saying " well I'm so much slower than him, I'm obviously rubbish at rowing".

2. At 17:41 15th May 2012, thecatalyst wrote:

The fact is no-one cares about athletics, and a small percentage of the population only gives a jot once every four years. At the end of the day, athletics is dull and all athletes operate under suspicion after years of well publicised drug scandals. As a non londoner I did not want this expensive bore fest and will let it pass me by without a seconds thought.

***

A bit of an exaggeration. If no one cared or found athletics dull then everyone who wanted tickets would have had no problems getting them and the British Grand Prix at Crystal Palace would be held in front of an empty stadium every year.

Raises another question as to why the license fee is being spent on articles and forums that incite, and pander to, the small minority of the population who feel the need to vent their frustrations in public by posting wild and extreme comments not related to the subject in hand (i.e. Olympic Legacy). Free speech is one thing, however on the last forum on ticketing I counted 243 comments only 36 of which actually related to the matter in hand and significantly reduced the interest in, and worth of, the forum.

London 2012 can learn very little from Beijing 2008 because you can't compare two totally different cultures and outlooks.

While in Beijing I also spoke to a leading editor on one of China's biggest websites. He told me it was a fact of life that censors from the government worked among his staff deleting articles and comments on forums which were considered out of line with state policy
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I wondered where the beeb got it's moderators from.....

I found it interesting, if not surprising, that an article questioning the legacy of the Olympic Games to preivous hosts and how London can avoid mistakes has led to half the article - including the interviewer - asking about human rights. It's almost as if western journalists have some sort of inherent agenda re: anything China - gotta ask about those rights!!!

Talking about flowers? What about human rights!

Disappointing.

It's entirely relevant to mention Human Rights with regard to China.

Because the IOC itself claimed that a legacy of the Beijing Games would be improved Human Rights in China and in fact, this was cited as a reason for awarding them the Games in the first place.

And the Chinese government made pledges to improve human rights as part of their case to be awarded the Games, including an explicit commitment to uphold press freedom.

I think people need to think a bit more deeply about motivation if they want to have a mass participation legacy after the games.

The people who are in the main motivated by Olympic gold are people who already have a positive view of sport, enjoy some sport or other and are therefore motivated to try something new.

For those with a negative view of it, maybe being a bit overweight, having had bad experiences at school etc etc, it's unlikely to work. They are going to need positive feelings to want to participate and that won't come from people they have never met and probably never will meet. It will either come from inside themselves or from people they know locally.

If those people spent 1 year simply cycling 1 mile four times a week, that might be the starting point to more regular exercise, be that walking, dancing, swimming, cycling or more formal sport.

You solve obesity through gradations of EXERCISE, not through aiming to become Olympic champion. There may be a small number who break the mould, but the majority won't. They KNOW they aren't gifted sporting wise, for them the selling points have to be well-being, feeling good (the endorphin high), meeting people through gentle exercise and the health benefits that will bring. Those are attainable and therefore motivation is possible.

Once you get to that platform, maybe some will go further. Hopefully plenty will. But you don't want overweight people ruining their joints taking up running too early. Get them thinner on a bike, in a pool, where their joints are protected. Get them to walk up hills to strengthen muscles and joints. Then you can introduce jogging if you want to.

If you want a sustainable national pride, you have to embrace the entire population, not glorify a tiny minority.

May not be what the Lords of the land want to hear, but it's the truth you'll find on the ground........

What annoys me more than anything is everyone keeps calling it the "London" Olympics. It should be called the East London Olympics, they get any infrastructure benefits all the rest of London's population get is the bill. If the rest of the Olympic construction has been as badly thought through as the Athletics Stadium there won't actually be much in the way of benefits, just ongoing costs. I would be a lot more enthusiastic if Paris had won the bid.

I agree that sport participation legacy is going to be a challenge.
However, for anyone doubting a legacy left by the venues etc, I think winning the Olympics and the building work over the past 5 years has done wonders for the East End, and LOCOG should be praised for their efforts to ensure continuity after the Games are finished. No white elephants here! I have lived in Stratford for the past 5 years and have seen the entire area change beyond all recognition - infrastructure, landscaping, cleaning, residential & commercial property, entertainment etc.
I also went to the test event at the Stadium recently, and while some venues & seating arrangements may be scaled back e.g the pool, or removed completely (e.g. the basketball arena), the remaining fixed venues are of top quality and will be used. How they will be used and by whom is still up for debate, but there is no question that I am really happy with what I have seen, and some of the designs are fantastic.
Having said that, I do wish they had taken the opportunity 5 years ago to tear out the Tube and start again, but you can't have everything!

Time and time again there is one legacy project that has been a roaring success, yet fails to get any coverage by the ´óÏó´«Ã½. Gold Challenge announced today that over 90,000 people have registered to its program, committing to take on Olympic and Paralympic sporting activity whilst fundraising for charity: www.goldchallenge.org. As part of the People, Places, Play Legacy for the London 2012 Olympics it's been a major success, yet I never get to read anything about it.
And I think it taps into exactly what rjaggar was saying (so eloquently) - so why is it not being championed by such organisations like the ´óÏó´«Ã½?