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For students of Welsh politics, last night's debate in the House of Lords had it all: a contribution from Lloyd George's grandson, references to notable figures in Welsh life from the Archbishop of Wales to John Redwood, and a history lesson from one of Britain's most distinguished historians.

You didn't have to be Welsh to take part, but it certainly helped. Lord Campbell-Savours of Allerdale claimed participation through his Swansea birth (and traced the Savours back to 1602 to prove his point).

Lord Williamson of Norton relied on his past experience representing North Wales at cricket to contribute to a debate on plans to cut the number of MPs.

Viscount Tenby spoke as someone whose grandfather, father, aunt and uncle all represented rural Welsh constituencies to make the point that larger seats could be more difficult to represent with fewer MPs.

Former Welsh Secretary Lord Crickhowell put forward his analysis of the history of S4C, after recently published Cabinet papers highlighted Gwynfor Evans's role in the channel's birth.

Lord Crickhowell, as Nicholas Edwards Secretary of State between 1979 and 1987, saw things differently: "The crucial moment in that consideration was not, as has sometimes been said, the actions of Mr Gwynfor Evans.

"In fact, it was a visit paid to Lord Whitelaw and me by three very distinguished Welshmen: one much-loved former Member of this House, Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos, the then Archbishop of Wales and Sir Goronwy Daniel.

"After the meeting, Lord Whitelaw asked me what I thought we should do. I said: "If we cannot carry sensible, wise, moderate, middle-of-the-road opinion on this issue, we should change our policy, because we cannot deal with the extremists if we cannot have the support of people like that"."

His point was that the weight of an argument depended on quality, rather than quantity, and Wales should not fear a loss of 10 MPs.

"I may be wrong, but I do not think that Owain Glyndwr is rising from his unknown grave and about to lead the people of Wales into a great campaign because our nation is threatened by this terrible change. I am a bit doubtful about that argument."

Historian Lord [Kenneth O.] Morgan took on the Crickhowell argument. "If Wales were represented by 40 idiots or people of mediocre talent, perhaps it might not matter how many you had.

"If you had a genius, Wales could be represented by one person. But I also think - to quote a famous advert - size matters, and a significant number to make a collective point at all levels of the legislature of the United Kingdom is extremely important."

The debate co-incided, perhaps accidentally, with the release of publicity of some of the 40 MPs from Wales taking part in the First "Parliamentary Games Day" organised by a lobbying group from the video games industry.

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