大象传媒

Mr Smith, pursuant to the import of THAT LETTER, have you asked Kevin Lavery, Chief Election Returning Officer for a breakdown of:
1.Number of full time resident votes.
2.Number of non-resident 90% Council Tax liability votes.
3.Number of valid non-resident 90% Council Tax liability votes.
4.Number of invalid and disqualified non-resident 90% Council Tax liability votes.

Isn't Mr Lavery obliged to verify and confirm the validity of every vote BEFORE signing off any election, including Camborne North, as free, fair and democratic within the terms of Electoral Law and therefore an official result?
How many of those postal votes (and the others) were cast by people who don't live in Camborne North and indicate that fact by payment of 90% Council Tax?
How many of those were or are being invalidated?

Perhaps we should be told?
Perhaps you will exercise your professional investigative journalist expertise to find out?
Democracy can be a fragile thing needing nurturing and protecting...

Please Graham, try and find an answer for the bloke and blow his "non-residents effectively running local politics" fantasy, clean out of the Tamar.

Quite a few people are seeking truth in these matters, Slimslad. The issue is not about any fantasy entertained by anyone, including yourself.
Whatever is happening is happening. The fact is the facts are not known and the Chief Election Returning Officer Kevin Lavery appears far too reticent about ascertaining them.
For an Election Returning Officer to be claiming Freedom of Information Act exemption when dealing with, scrutinising and, presumably, being accountable for the very foundations of our democracy and how elections are run is surely not right. In any case exemption does not preclude or prevent voluntary disclosure of the facts by Mr Lavery. That's what he should do - to clarify the facts and the numbers for all so we can all have confidence in the validity of our elections and how they are being run and in their declared results.

In fact, an Chief Election Returning Officer who has the tools to access the facts and who is obliged to use them in order to validate votes and declare valid election results but who refuses to assuage public concern by transparent demonstration of the information upon which his decisions and declarations must be based could be seen to be acting perversely, failing to fulfill his duties and working against the public interest.

鈥淢ebyon Kernow 279鈥�

Did MK honestly think they were going to do better than what they did? In the light of all the carryings on of the last few weeks, (the hugger strike and such things)

'hugger strike' sounds like a lot of fun, youngcornwall!
Apparently Mebyon Kernow's share of the vote actually increased:
mebyonkernow.blogspot.com/2010/11/camborne-north-by-election.html?lang=en
(put that in your browser address window and smoke it.Or maybe just fume a little.)
In any case, what the Celtic League get up to is nothing to do with Mebyon Kernow. And what Mebyon Kernow get up to is nothing to with the Celtic League. They are different organisations altogether. As you well know.
You are naughty - you with your little red herrings.

MK, the Celtic League and Nationalists which include nats are all tarred with the same brush, it is no wonder MK had an increase in its votes, they couldn鈥檛 do any different, who realistically would vote Tory in today鈥檚 climate? Talk of a turkey voting for Christmas.
No MK could have romped home if they were not carrying so much unnecessary baggage, being in denial is just delaying any kind of progress.

As you appear keen to see Mebyon Kernow further boost their support and achieve yet greater success, youngcornwall, perhaps you'd like to advise Mebyon Kernow of your plans and recommendations for progress in the light of your analysis of the Camborne North results. That's easily done here:
www.mebyonkernow.org/?q=webform/89

AccurateChronometer wrote:
As you appear keen to see Mebyon Kernow further boost their support and achieve yet greater success, youngcornwall,

Yes for MK to 鈥渁chieve yet greater success鈥� first they must rid the cancer that is plaguing this party, (not from within I hasten to add, because I do not know) from many loose cannons that turn people right off.

This quote from our resident nat shows it very clearly.

鈥淎s I have said on previous occasions, I represent no-one but myself, any opinion I express is entirely my own鈥�

This leaves you AccurateChronometer, do you represent anyone? Or are your opinions entirely your own?

Well, youngcornwall, at the risk of veering away from Mr Smith's title and topic which you yet again appear overeager to do, all the opinions expressed at Mr Smith's blog appear to be the opinions of individuals. Have you noticed any corporate contributions (apart from those of the obvious Andrew Jacks/Peter Tregantle/Slimslad/youngcornwall contrived and orchestrated consortium)?

AccurateChronometer wrote:
Well, youngcornwall, at the risk of veering away from Mr Smith's title and topic which you yet again appear overeager to do,

Not at all, I was only trying to point out the mammoth task that MK is up against.

But I will let you think what you think.

youngcornwall wrote:-
"This quote from our resident nat shows it very clearly.

鈥淎s I have said on previous occasions, I represent no-one but myself, any opinion I express is entirely my own鈥�"

I am so glad you remember what I have said in the past CG, oops, YC.
Unlike you and your compatriots, I have never claimed anything else.
As for your accusation of being a "loose cannon", I am flattered by your belief in my importance and influence. Whilst at the same time, am amused at your thinking you know anything about the subject on discussion, after all, the MK membership, and prospective voters are made up of those who didn't run away, but either decided to stay and try to make things better, or moved here because it is better than where they were.

I am, however, quite sure that MK is fully aware of what it needs to do, but it is not helped by those who attempt to associate it with extremist religious terrorists at every opportunity. Thankfully, such dirty tricks seem to be confined to those who wish to stifle free speech and bully those who hold opinions that differ from theirs, on Internet sites such as this.

P_Trembath wrote:
I am, however, quite sure that MK is fully aware of what it needs to do, but it is not helped by those who attempt to associate it with extremist religious terrorists at every opportunity.

That is a new one 鈥渆xtremist religious terrorists鈥� could anyone expand on this please,
a link or two would do.

The maltreatment of Cornish politics\history by the usual green sock puppets, posting links and abuse. Hiding under various stage names.

How quaint.

P_Trembath wrote:
I am, however, quite sure that MK is fully aware of what it needs to do, but it is not helped by those who attempt to associate it with extremist religious terrorists at every opportunity.

I think this kind of idle talk just highlights the point that I have been trying to get over, that MK has a mammoth task ahead of them, if they wish to do better in the polls.
Like I have said recently 鈥渋dle talk loses votes鈥� and without 鈥渢he carryings on of the last few weeks, (the hunger strike and such things)" imo MK would have done a lot better in this Town Council by-election.

CG. oops sorry, YC, the "idle talk" is yours.
A number of your fellow Kernowphobes have made such connections in the past, and as you pointedly failed to disassociate yourself from such remarks, one can only assume that you agree with them. Although we all know that you are far too careful to actually make such comments yourself, you are more than happy to agree with, and support, those that have.
As I have already said, MK knows what it needs to do, But it could also do without the likes of you making the connections that you so like, ("the carryings on of the last few weeks, (the hunger strike and such things)").

P_Trembath wrote
such dirty tricks seem to be confined to those who wish to stifle free speech and bully those who hold opinions that differ from theirs, on Internet sites such as this.

A link would be fine to substantiate your claim, which otherwise is unfounded idle gossip, on your part.

youngcornwall wrote:-
"A link would be fine to substantiate your claim, which otherwise is unfounded idle gossip, on your part."

Your usual cry.
Just what do you want "substantiated" YC?
1/ The fact that you are careful not to post such comments yourself?
2/ The fact that you support and agree with those who do make such comments?
3/ Or the fact that such comments have been made?

If it's 1/ then how?
If it's 2/ or 3/ asking for substantiation is just attempting to deny what everyone else can plainly read for themselves. You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else.

youngcornwall wrote
鈥渟ubstantiate your claim鈥�

鈥渨ho attempt to associate鈥� MK with any 鈥渆xtremist religious terrorists鈥�

Or is this you just scaremongering? Or is it all in your mind?

A link would be fine, not a big thing to ask is it?

The facts are:

The nationalists have no backing from voters.

No credible,( widely electable), political structure.

They do have, however, a very extremist, reactionary, element.

Then again, quite a lot of nationalist extremists have come to power, in the past?

Hi, you say you are here to provide insight into the way Government works. Well I've been observing it for decades now and as far as I can tell it never has worked, locally or nationally. For one thing it takes far to much not of what the country wants and ignores what it needs. They are supposed to govern not be governed.

The question of 2nd home voters is an interesting one and does need to be addressed something which Cornwall councillors voted for. However I believe the fundamental problem is that the Electoral Reurning Officer is under political control, I don't mean some form of conspiracy but simply that he serves the interests of the councillors. He is answerable to them and without them he can't act which leads to the fundamental problem with solving this issue, which is that once elected those in power have no desire to change the system which has brought them power. Particularly true of the Conservatives in Truro and London whose core voters are likely to both own second homes and vote Conservative. The only way that this sort of electoral fraud could be stamped is by making the electoral team away from the council and making them truly independent but the same catch 22.

Slimslad some interesting observations here

"The facts are:

The nationalists have no backing from voters.

No credible,( widely electable), political structure.

They do have, however, a very extremist, reactionary, element.

Then again, quite a lot of nationalist extremists have come to power, in the past?"


Perhaps we could apply the same criteria to the unionists/ anti nationalists?

No electoral mandate (all political parties in Cornwall supported Devonwall, which you don't).

Even the big three were keen to state that Cornwall was a Duchy, this is Cornwall and that is England type talk. Again something the anti-nat camp hate.

No party in Cornwall takes such a disapproving line on the Cornish language as you and your anti- nat buddies do.

Do you anti-nationalists even have a party let alone a credible structure? Will you look to become widely electable?

I won't comment on the extremist bit thats just plain trolling and fiction.

Let's be serious we are individuals commenting on a blog we do not represent anyone but our own opinions, this is about debate. We aren't and shouldn't be about representing the voice of anyone but ourselves.

Does anyone really believe that second-home owners, (or "multiple home-owners", as some would have it), have any real political influence through the ballot box in Cornwall?

It seems that the minority local parties and their supporters would love this to be the case.
Because they can use this mythical "influence" to excuse their dismal showing at the polls.

Quote - Perhaps we could apply the same criteria to the unionists/ anti nationalists?

Otherwise known as the 99% of Cornish people living in the real world, not trying to interweave history and tear the Cornish apart. I thought that was what you were struggling to say, no such thing as an anti-nationalist they are the state of norm, the benchmark. When all is said and done less than 1% of people living in Cornwall want independence, that鈥檚 a significant majority leaving no creditable opposition, thus no titles are required, human race has a nice ring to it.

youngcornwall wrote:-
"A link would be fine, not a big thing to ask is it?"

We do not need links, all who have read this blog, and others for any length of time will be all too aware of such comments.

What would be interesting to see is whether you attempt to deny such comments have been made?

Also do you attempt to deny that you have supported, and agreed with, those who made such statements?

If you do deny it, then I will provide the links that such comments have been made by some, that you supported and agreed with, about Mebyon Kernow. The question is, how honest are you?

If MK 鈥渒nows what it needs to do,鈥� it must be a very recent revelation to them, as so far over their 50 years of existence they have achieved little. MK has always (and always probably will) be seen as something of a Cornish joke. Their policies are hard left in a county which shuns the left, they are constantly associated with the less sensible fringe of Cornish nationalism, and they have dreams and delusions about their importance which makes them an easy butt for jokes in the county.


To succeed MK needs to throw off their dowdy image (have you seen the photos on their website? Conan Jenkin鈥檚 hair?) get some centre ground policies, present a positive agenda for Cornwall, (one which does not sound like they are dreaming of a return to a post WWII Cornwall of tin mines and fishing) talk up the benefits of tourism to Cornwall, talk up the attractiveness of the county to outside investment/relaoction, and openly disown the nationalist fringe.

Then they may get a few more county councillors.

P_Trembath wrote:
What would be interesting to see is whether you attempt to deny such comments have been made?

17. At 19:18pm on 20 Nov 2010, You wrote:
That is a new one 鈥渆xtremist religious terrorists鈥� could anyone expand on this please,
a link or two would do.

With my hand on my heart, I can truthfully say I have never come across this before on this blog, or anywhere else comes to that, where MK and 鈥渆xtremist religious terrorists鈥� are used in the same context. You made the connection not me,(I wander why) if anyone else had made this kind of statement I would asked for clarification.

"Then they may get a few more county councillors."

The history of MK seems to suggest they are built on foundations of people holding such views; they are and always will be a protest single issue party stuck in a railway halt never knowing which line to take

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"In any case, what the Celtic League get up to is nothing to do with Mebyon Kernow. And what Mebyon Kernow get up to is nothing to with the Celtic League. They are different organisations altogether."

Really?

Has Rhisiart Tal-e-bot resigned from his position of General Secretary of the Celtic League?

Or as President of Mebyon X,(Mebyon Kernow's youth-wing)?

I hadn't heard.

You make an interesting point there, Slimslad.
However, individuals are individuals.
And organisations are organisations whose policies are collectively driven - not by any single individual.
Occasionally individuals can find themselves with overlapping memberships.
You would be mistaken were you to attempt to allege that membership of Mebyon Kernow is entirely convergent with membership of the Celtic League. A close look at their respective policies, focal interests and practices will, in fact, reveal a number of areas of divergence as well as some areas of convergence. This is inevitable given that the territory of their concern under discussion here - the Duchy Of Cornwall, her people and their future - is often the same.
Just take a look at the Andrew Jacks/Slimslad/Peter Tregantle/youngcornwall consortium and its activities in recent times for an illustration of how elaborate individual/collective overlapping memberships and activities can become!

However their "policies, focal interests and practices" diverge, Mebyon Kernow and the Cornish Branch of the Celtic League, share at least Rhisiart Tal-e-bot and perhaps more.

Not exactly "what the Celtic League get up to is nothing to do with Mebyon Kernow. And what Mebyon Kernow get up to is nothing to with the Celtic League." is it?

Passed off as an "interesting point".

Dave the rave wrote:
鈥渢hey are constantly associated with the less sensible fringe of Cornish nationalism鈥�

This is something MK must tackle, and the best way is to confront it head on, no doubt MK reads this blog (if they do not, they are in a worse state than I thought) if so why not jump in and ask for justification of things that have been said, and put people right if need be, people would think more of them.

Perhaps they don't rate the orchestrated rantings of the Andrew Jacks/Slimslad/Peter Tregantle/youngcornwall consortium worth the time and energy involved in entering your ever revolving door to nowhere? Let's face it - the Andrew Jacks/Slimslad/Peter Tregantle/youngcornwall consortium does seem to wind itself up into a vortex of frenzied, repetitive and inarticulate disarray. What serious organisation or its members would really want to be bothered with its attention seeking drama queen posturings and demands?

AccurateChronometer wrote
What serious organisation or its members would really want to be bothered

I think MK are 鈥渟erious鈥� enough, and are a 鈥渟erious organisation鈥� in some people鈥檚 eyes, but to win seats they must be seen as a 鈥渟erious organisation鈥� to the majority of voters, if they cannot be 鈥渂othered鈥� as you suggest, that could be just one of their stumbling blocks, who knows?

Such idle speculations may be futile, youngcornwall.
How do rhinos deal with fleas?

That was an intriguing few hours while the site was down to none 大象传媒 employees

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

AccurateChronometer wrote:
Such idle speculations may be futile, youngcornwall.
How do rhinos deal with fleas?

Slightly off topic it would seem, but if your connection is with MK and dealing with its parasitic hangers on, I suggest DDT (Denounced Disown Treatment)

You appear to have failed to notice the role of the free range egrets and tick pickers, youngcornwall.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

M.K. Less of a rhino.
More of an elephant, (very pale variety).

Elephants also have free range tick tenders, Slimslad:

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Membership of one organisation, for example the Celtic League which is an NGO recognised by the United Nations, does not preclude membership of another, for example MK. However, the two remain independent. We have League members who are members of many different political parties and many who are members of none. I am a member of no political party. Some of our members are members of the Gorseth, some of the Stannary and so on. the only membership of organisationswhich bans membership of the Celtic League is the BNP, EDL, and so on.
Because one is a member of say the RAC, does not mean that one cannot have AA membership as well.

I think the conversation was less about "membership", more about influence. I could be a member of the A.A. and R.A.C., but I am not Chairman of either organisation. I have no possible influence on policy, etc.

A "member of no political party" gives the impression of being somehow "non-political", which is not the case when talking of the "Stannery" and "The Celtic League", both being political organisations in their own right, although both organisations do not go to the electorate in any way.

"The "Stannery" and "The Celtic League", both being political organisations in their own right, although both organisations do not go to the electorate in any way."

There may be a reason for that.

But I don't think I would be alone in wanting to see these people actually stand up at the ballot box and put their view up for public voting, just to see how much support they get.

It's all very well sniping from the side lines, and having your fun and games when there is no consequence (apart from looking a fool in public). When the chips are down and you are being judged by your peers is a different matter all together..

Mr Chappell writes:

"Membership of one organisation, for example the Celtic League which is an NGO recognised by the United Nations, does not preclude membership of another, for example MK."

I don't think membership is an issue here. It has more to do with influence, in my opinion.

Mr Chappell also writes:

"Because one is a member of say the RAC, does not mean that one cannot have AA membership as well."

Quite true, if we were just discussing "mere" membership of non-political organisations and we were also discussing "ordinary" members of said organisations. But the fact is we were discussing those that are "mover and shakers" in 2 political organisations, who are in a position to influence the policies of both organisations.

Perhaps, the Andrew Jacks/Peter Tregantle/ Slimslad/youngcornwall consortium, your energies and concerted focus would be better and more fruitfully spent addressing the multiple affiliations, associations, political memberships and overlapping corporate positions of the members of the unelected Bilderberg Group - now there's a 'challenge' to your undoubted talents and determination! :
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7804197/The-Bilderberg-Group-fact-and-fantasy.html

"the Andrew Jacks/Peter Tregantle/ Slimslad/youngcornwall consortium"

Personally I have no contact with the above other than here,(believe it or believe it not.)

But a telling phrase from AC is the "Bilderberg Group".

A classic "conspiracy theory favourite" for those "interested", (obsessed), with the "Secret World Government".

AC just mentioned the Bilderberg group in passing, Slimslad, as it appears to be topical to the wayward drift away from Mr Smith's title and content that has arisen above, impelled along by the the Andrew Jacks/Peter Tregantle/ Slimslad/youngcornwall consortium to whom obsessions and dispositions of that ilk appear more than a little tiresomely familiar.

The "wayward drift", A.C. would seem to be a "drift" from a mention of an individual being Chairman of The Celtic League and Chairman of Mebyon X, to the Bildeberg Group.

Hardly in the same league,(no pun intended).

Just in passing.

Neither of which have anything much to do with the title and content of this page of Mr Smith's blog, Slimslad. Look:
"Cornwall's Lib Dems lose their first council seat since general election
Graham Smith | 09:31 UK time, Friday, 19 November 2010
As usual, all the political parties are claiming "victory" after last night's Camborne Town Council by-election. All, that is, except the Liberal Democrats who failed to find a candidate to defend the seat they had previously held. So the result is a Conservative gain from the Lib Dems. For Labour and Mebyon Kernow, this was a scrap to see which of them would mop up the former Lib Dem "anti-Conservative" vote - not surprisingly, both parties saw dramatic increases in their share, which divided neatly to produce a Conservative victory. Conservatives: 478, Labour 318, Mebyon Kernow 279."
It would be similarly deviational from Mr Smith's topic were you to devote so much pixel space to the multi-memberships and modes of penetration, participation and influence of George Eustice MP:

Sorry I have gone off subject.

Abject apologies.