大象传媒

Dear Mr Paxman

Why is the assumption made that privatised public services are more efficient and what does this mean exactly. It is illogical to suggest that public services are necessarily less efficient.Is it that privatised services find it easier to exploit their workers? A case in point are cleaners who found their pay cut and their work increased when privatised.
Do you think that a problem with the NHS is that doctors have re-discovered the power they have over people who are at their most vulnerable when ill? Pre-NHS they could charge what they like. They now have discovered the leverage they have over people but no-one is prepared to confront them with this.
They have also bought into the lie that the country is very wealthy (instead of carrying huge debts) and can pay the high salaries they now enjoy. It also means they do not have to work weekends.
Perhaps doctors pay needs to be cut and other NHS workers have their pay increased.
This may be incorrect but I htought I read that the privatised health care system in the US costs twice ours but is not twice as good
best wishes
Bob Goodall

my 79 year old father sees perfectly, after the removal of a cataract from one eye. The op was done in France , where he lives, within approx 8 weeks of diagnosis.
This is fortunate, since it is perfectly possible that had he been resident in the UK at the time, and joined an NHS waiting list, the operation may not have been so successful. if it had been done at all.

The provision of public services in Britain should be seen in the context of high immigration and multiculturalism.

How on earth could the education system of somewhere like Qatar be adopted in somewhere like Bradford, for example, where most of the kids starting school can't even speak English and come from poor backgrounds?

Things only work in Qatar because it is a very rich country which is very homogenous.

When schools in Qatar have to cope with kids speaking 100 different languages, embracing many different religions, and coming from a disproportionately high number of
broken families, then maybe we can learn from them.

It seems like an absurd example to have picked.

In the final analysis all services, whether public or private, depend on the skills and dedication of individuals.
I live in France. When aged 53 I had an operation for cataract. It was a failure - the surgeon made a mess of the cornea. 4 years later I was given a corneal graft. Another failure. Finally, in 2001, a 2nd corneal graft.
Failed again. It is true that all these operations were performed without undue waiting time, but I would have preferred to wait a while, if that would have meant a successful outcome.
Ronald C.

Dear Mr Paxman

Cuban health system provides 24 hour dentistry... How I wish my son could have had this - he suffered three trips to the dentist and a fortnight of painful nights without resolution and then finally, one trip to the hospital at 5.15 a.m. for the administration of liquid morphine. He still ended up seeing a dentist the next day (having had to put up with more pain). The Government should see a child in that much distress to help them realise 24 hour dentistry could actually save precious resources(and hurt!).
Yours sincerely

Stephanie Warwick

Dear Mr Paxman,

I am a qualified Social Worker in the West Midlands assessing the elderly in the community.

The issue is not about who deliveres the services;public or private sector,but it is about asking the general public what they want.It is not what the professionals in the health profession deam is the best for the public.

And Health professionals answering about what the community wants is totaly inappropriate,because it is the Social Care Professional that have the insight of what is required in the community,because they are constantly in touch on a daily basis with the general public in the community.It is the social care professional and the public are the only ones who know what is required in the community. Not the middle class health professional.

We must consult the general public and Social care professionals of what the needs are in community.

Sheffield had one of the best, if not the best, bus transport systems in the UK when I first moved here in the 1970s. Since Tory deregulation of the busses we are now burdened with a fragmented and uncertain service. As a consequence the busses that do run are poorly used and the roads are jam packed full of cars with single occupants.

It should come as no surprise that this has happened, they were warned at the time in no uncertain terms.

The only sensible solution is to nationalise ALL essential services; transport, water, power, telecoms, education, health, post, roads, etc. Only then will it be possible to implement genuinely ecological changes because the motive will be service and not profit.

I found the whole debate sinister about the state interfearing in your life. Telling you what you can or can't do. Very 1994.

We have fought wars for our freedom.
Who do these civil servants think they are trying to boss us around.

Try finding the telephone number to enquire about train times and fares - what is it under?

Having obtained this, ring India for information.

Then decide to double check it the next day, and be told something completely different. Refuse to go off the line until this is double checked, and get another different answer. Then be told the fare may be 拢79 or between 拢22 - 拢33 if booked in advance,but these tickets may not be available. If you are lucky, then the previous train information you were given is now not correct because you can only travel on trains run by one company. Get these revised times,which means the journey will take an hour longer. Then discover that you have to say in advance the exact trains you will be on and if you don't adhere to this the ticket will be invalid.

Decide to go by car. You are already exhausted just finding out about the train journey!

It is astonishing that representatives of government/local branches can assert that an integrated transport system is some sort of mythical beast necessitating years of planning, adaptation and public information. I moved to Berlin in 2000 and found a system offering reasonably priced tickets tailored to length of journey, time span, and transferable across the city train system, underground, bus and tram. And this in a city which continues to have a serious rate of unemployment, a practically empty budget and which from 1989 onwards, had to reform itself in one of the most significant political and economic upheavals of the post-war era.

Herewith a bit of a ragbag of comment but with somewhat of a common thread. Forgive me.
I have just listened to the part of the debate on transport, which seemed to just talk about how to meet demand without thinking about the cause of demand. After the war, the planners in this country, for their administrative convenience decided to zone areas for development. So people were told to live in one place, work in another, shop in a third and then, after a while, send their children to a school in a fourth. After forty years of this, they said "There's a lot of traffic". But they planned it like that. If, as still is the case in many parts of Europe, people live where they work and shop where they live, the need for transport is much much lower. They have as many cars per head but use them much less.
To understand many of our problems in this country, you actually find that it goes back to a weakness in planning and the way that everything is driven by the administrators, who are now the masters rather than the servants.
Administrators like to batch process because it is easier for them. Real life is diverse.
When you add to this the power of the Treasury, which runs the country on a purely cash basis, instead of with an understanding of national scale economics, we have a recipe for disaster.
Everything has been asset stripped, value add has been destroyed and now our last national assets are being artificially thrust into the privatised arena with the aim of cash creation for the Treasury.
Sadly the UK has no real economy left. It finally is only a nation of shopkeepers.

What a breath of fresh air!! I rarely bother to watch the programme as I am completely scunnered (good Scots word!) by the usual confrontational approach. (I tuned in tonight by accident.)

This type of discussion is long overdue and crucial to the future of our country. We need to learn from the best international experience and stop believing that Britain still has the best of everything. We most obviously don't!

The ideas, not all of which I agree with, are seriously worthy of debate and the panel is excellent - maybe because there are so few politicians.

Perhaps it would have helped to have some Scots and Welsh panel members particularly given the comment about transport and devolution. Even with a Scottish Parliament, for which I campaigned, we have not solved the transport issue. To quote one former Scottish Minister, now giving up her seat, we have spent seven years talking about a transport revolution whilst, in that time, other cities and countries have implemented the revolution.

On the other hand, in health and education, I believe we have made considerable progress and do not face the challenges your programme described which I suspect are predominantly English. Having said that, we still have a long way to go in delivering health and education services fit for the 21st century.

I believe the real issue here is of decentralisation and local community/authorities having considerably more power. (Then we might attract more talent in to local government politics.)

More of this type of programme please and I might just stay up and watch!

Esther Roberton

The National Curriculum is definately prescriptive and it does influence the way you teach as well as what you teach. If you need to jump through the hoops of Sats and modules then your teaching is directed by this. Yes you get 'results', but you also get a generation unable to use the skills they have been 'taught'. I am extremely sorry that my own children are experiencing this narrow idea of education - there is no time for exploring their own ideas and free thinking is definately not encouraged. The examination system follows the education system (they'd be out of a job if they didn't), so the whole of education becomes more controlled.

I thought the woman sitting next to Roger Cook, talking about the penal system was very interesting, who is she? There was no caption telling us who she was or what organisation she represents.

Dear Sirs/Madams
PONTELAND MEDICAL GROUP NEWCASTLE
I have been a contributor to the NHS for c 34 years through NI contributions.
Recent vists to my GP have highlighted a culture of questions at EVERY consultation 'are you PMId?'
(Private medical insured)
I recently had acute and sudden sensinorineural hearing loss with no otitus externa.
It took me 5 vists to my GP and then it was by my own research to instigate PMI at Nuffiled Newcastle
that I eventually got some sort of sense as to what was happening
GPs are more concerned with budgets and their PCs to care about their patients.
I arranged Hyperbaric Oxygen treatment through an old contact when i was in SFs -my GP couldnt even take the time to look at my data -as his ego was obviously dented
GPs are flawed

A long overdue debate tonight with the common thread that planning horizons prevent government (or local government for that matter) from bringing about cultural and behavioural change. The transformation of key services (for example the development of an integrated transport policy} would require a level of unpopularity which no politician is likely to want to endure. The media plays a key role (not addressed in the debate) in provoking knee-jerk reactions from politicians rather than promoting long term solutions.

The solution - change the 'constitution' to allow governments to stay in power for longer; so how about 10 years?

Much better - some provocative reporting and some conscientious professionals (with some of the usual suspects) having a (sort of)discussion rather than an interview ?

One key theme seemed to be that if you TRUST the teacher, doctor, councillor or governor then they will get on and deliver the service to a high, and accountable, standard. "Enabling" within an explicit framework takes precedence over "control". Professionals will deliver an unprecedented degree of adaptability to bridge the rate of change of new knowledge AND client expectations - just give them the tools ?

I fear the present emphasis on "targets" may originate from some work by WE Deming in post-war Japan where he felt that engineering "process" delivered "outcomes". That would be fine if the task were to separate a mixture of red and white beads with an unlimited pool of labour requiring one bowl of rice per day ! It bears no comparison to running Cheltenham Ladies College, the University of Bristol, Railtrack or Horfield Prison ?

I really hope that this thesis is wrong - but given the intellectual prowess, and, the ideological generosity of the present Cabinet...

Nice to see Cuba portrayed in an honest way, for once. They not only have a lot to teach the rest of us about humane health care, as your film demonstrated, but also much about coping with the looming oil crisis.

Did you know that they are the only country in the world to have changed every single light bulb to a low energy type and saved 20% on their electricity consumption - and all that within the last 12 months. I doubt if we'd even get the cabinet to appoint a committee to look into it in that time.

Newsnight without the daily deluge of political spin and neanderthal head banging - what a breath of fresh air. Lets have more.

A brilliant program. I hope that it will teach Newsnight, and the rest of the 大象传媒, two important lessons: first, that all the shiney sets and giant plastic tables and projected images and semi-tabloid headlining and flashy computer graphics and gimmicky reports that our money is spent on so recklessly are entirely superfluous - all that is required is a group of knowledgeable people sitting in a circle discussing a topic politely; second, that it is foolish to invite national politicians on to answer questions about politics. National politicians are F-grade celebrities that are useful for their ability to present a simplistic version of a policy to a TV audience with a reassuring tone of voice, akin essentially to a glorified equivalent of the voice-over men that we get in commercial advertising. Asking them about politics (of the policy kind, rather than the backstabbing and clientelism in the Commons)is like asking the ad man about the chemistry of his kitchen cleaning product - half of them clearly don't know why they're supporting the policies they do, and those who do know what they're talking about refuse to give straight answers on principle. Think-tanks; academics; pressure groups; people actually in the system like headmasters and doctors: these are the people we should be hearing from, not the jumped-up marketing execs from the green benches.

I'm not saying that every show should be like tonight's. But I do hope that it shows editors that a more simple, authentic and mature ethos is actually possible without losing audiences or quality.

Restorative justice , while fine on the surface, is actually partial privatisation of the justice system, partially shifting on to the victim part of the state's responsibilty for rehabilitation.
Denmark's system works because there is a smaller gap between rich and poor, providing offenders with hope and incentive. Our system and our society breeds repeat criminals because our society from the top down values material status above all else to a ridiculously dangerous degree, unlike most of Western Europe. If you don't own, you don't exist in Britain.

Our homogenised political system is in my view incapable of throwing up the alternative strategies which might form the basis for national debate about the future of public services. Effective political solutions can only arise if we first of all change the electoral system so that everyone's vote counts not just the few voters in key marginals that change the government from faintly pink to light blue every decade or so.

Hello, just watched the Wed 13 Sep broadcast. What i wish to comment on is the format of the programme. It was good to find a refreshing change away from the standard format.

ALL the participants appeared to welcome an altogether different environment, out of the straitjacket of the 大象传媒 studio.

This different environment had a pleasant effect upon the style of discussion. Participants were generally more open and positive than similar political discussions staged in TV studios. In the four discourses, positive and creative thinking was more in evidence than usual.

I applaud the object of this project, that is, to look at other countries all over the world to see whether we may compare our public services with those abroad, with a view to improving our own.

Neil

Public services fit for the 21st century? Certainly not the Prison Service. Our prisons represent a failed system, with jails bursting at the seams; most prisoners reoffend following release. Prison doesn't work. Yet, bizarrely, Home Secretary John Reid has announced a hare-brained scheme for 8,000 extra prison places at a cost of 拢800m. Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on mental health, and drug and alcohol treatment facilities?
David Fraser, author, referred to the prison population as being 77,000. In fact, the figure is in excess of 79,000 [England and Wales]. Mr Fraser said "we have quite a criminalised society", yet he failed to acknowledge that crime actually peaked in 1995, and has fallen by 44% in the last decade; is stable this year, and murder is down. Like John Reid, he wants a much larger prison population, but there is no moral or economic justification for increasing the number of people locked up.
Anne Owers, Chief Inspector of Prisons, interviewed in the New Statesman, 05.06.06, said: "I should not, in 2006, be inspecting prisons where menstruating women have to slop out, or where exercise in a high-security prison has to be cancelled because of the parcels of excrement prisoners have thrown from their windows because they can't get out of their cells at night to go to the toilet". This is a clear breach of Article 3 [inhumane and degrading treatment], Human Rights Act 1998.
Government lacks moral leadership, and there is no real political commitment to deal with the problems. Our jails are reminiscent of a bygone era. No civilised society should tolerate prisons that abuse inmates' human rights, where politicians turn a blind eye to the inhumane and degrading treatment of some of the most vulnerable people in our society. What has happened to humanity?

I'm not sure the comparison between Danish and UK prison services was valid. It was stated that in Denmark, offenders with drug problems and sex offenders are not sent to prison. Were these groups and their rates of reoffending included in the Danish figures? If not, they should have been, or at least given separately. Don't these groups have a significant rate in the UK of reoffending after release?

One of the most basic improvements needed immediately in the UK is to have a prison population with no access to illegal drugs. Is this too difficult to resolve? Why? Because we can't introduce security arrangements for visitors that prevent drugs being brought in? Because if we caught and prosecuted all bent prison staff there would be few left? Somebody please tell me.

I have complained in frustration a couple of times in the past but tonight was an impressive move forward for Newsnight. Please do more of these.
Only criticism.. why all 4 subjects in one programme ..each deserved 45 minutes of it's own..and include the politicians..if they are not brave enough to face the experts without pre agreed questions etc let us know..there must be local standing or prospective MPs who are prepared to listen and pressure their own parties.
I am not sure if the underlying pressure for increased local decision making is valid for Transport, Health and Education, but it is a worthwhile proposition for debate.Let us know the arguments against.
Probably the most balanced view presented in tonight's programme was on the Prison issue.Congratulations.

Good show.

nice one jeremy, good to see that away from the politicians you can still smile.

anyway. i think the program reflected what are the essential problems in developing policy nowadays.....

nationwide any policy ends up watered down because politicians will always back down from a hard call if it affects their own future.

locally....policy put in the hands of strong personalities always ends up dictatorial (mr-bloody-livingstone....yes you).. the c-charge..fair enough, but then he puts so many empty buses on the streets, that its a joke - and a bad joke to those that cycle, bus drivers are the worst, most lethal and aggressive drivers i have ever seen...anywhere.

i digress. we need a lead politician that stands for strong radicalism. If that man/woman gets a strong mandate, that should be carried forward by quick and effective local polls. No nimby pandering cr*p, straight, direct.

Public service is a joke. How long did it take for the m40 to get built? For-smegging-decades- of-ever.

We need to move faster. Not necessarily ride roughshod over local opinion, but meet, agree, move around the contentious points, move on. Those that dont agree to anything....the nimby gits that have clogged up everything.....they need to find one example of a vilage that has never changed and then move their arguments on from not here not ever.

what we need is honesty from our politicians, a strong local dialogue between the community and the politicians, informing them of how they should vote (they DO NOT have discretion). Truth.

" we build this here, jobs come in, more traffic, more pollution. If you dont want it here, somewhere else will snap it up"

base choice, basic choices, no more 20 years deciding where the m** is going to go.

just get on with it.

make a decision - are we the netherlands or are we the states?

then move the hell on

I don't understand what everyone is complaining about. I can get my teeth fixed affordably at three days notice, I get my glasses at a reasonable price, I don't need a car because public transport is pleantiful and affordable, I can even afford to take in a concert - all I have to do is fly to Hungary.

As far as railways are concerned the simple answer is to open halts or stations where a rail route passes through centres of population. All large cities and towns should have a tram system which is integrated with buses and railways.
If the politicians opened their eyes when they visit cities such as Helsinki or St Petersburg that have splendid transport systems, they might be inclined to establish similar undertakings here.
The fact remains however, that oil consumption generates tax revenue and money is spent on colonial adventures abroad rather on transport, health and education.
Where there is no will there is no way!

Having watched tonight's debate, comparing our public services with other international communities, I was perplexed and fairly despondent due to the careful selection of what was presented as 'the best' compared to our own systems. I think it would have been more useful and accurate to have kept the focus upon one other European country, rather than flitting about the continent trying to draw unequal comparisons. Whilst I cannot comment upon the Danish penal system I would suggest that in Denmark many schools have astounding overt racism, to the extent that some institutions are referred to as black and white schools. In addition, the lack of special needs pupils being integrated into certain schools, for minor disabilities as well as more significant ones,is unfair, unnecessary and upsetting. I would also question the quality and rigour of primary education too. Their lack of a national curriculum has caused Danish people and their politicians to look to ours with interest and envy. Although there's plenty to decry about our present school systems there is also generally plenty of good policies and practices to applaud. We are definitely over-assessed. We are also scrutinised to such a degree that it can be stifling. Nevertheless we are a generous and forward looking nation and this is reflected in our schools and usually in our desire for fairness and decency. It is my belief that the long term aims of producing thoughtful, embracing and reflective citizens gets lost in the frenzy of continually drawing unnecessary and inconsequential comparisons with other nations. We can learn from others but we don't need to emulate people who may not share our goals and aspirations for future generations.

The presentation and debate on the Danish prison system were refreshing and enlightening. My most vivid memory of a brief period I spent working in a prison is of the terror of a man nearing the end of his second long sentence, certain in the knowledge that he would be totally incapable of coping with life outside. After being released from his first sentence he had found himself unable to cope with money, contact with other people and even with deciding what and when to eat. He had "lost it" and quickly committed another serious crime. High re-offending rates are clearly the result not only of lack of support on release but of the prison regime itself which makes it difficult for prisoners to keep up relationships with their families and removes them from them any kind of decision, responsibility or opportunity to learn and gain self-respect.
We must learn from the Danish experience.

Dear Mr. Paxman,

Congratulations on another installment of a programme where, in typically British style, what is left unsaid carries more weight than what is said.

What I like most about Newsnight is its ability to step back, however difficult that must be on certain occasions. And here, I feel that its host came closest to almost screaming the point that anyone without particularly entrenched interests must have been able to see.

And yet one got the impression that even those involved (few amongst them politicians, of course) almost came out and said it themselves! But this being Britain, they metaphorically ran up to the girl in question and pulled her pigtails.

Namely:

The British Governmental tradition (or Establishment, whatever you want to call it and it is not just this government) does not trust its own people.

Given the behaviour of Local Councils in recent decades (my own being no exception), it is hardly surprising. But what came across most strongly was the impression that trust has to come from some quarter and that quarter has to be Central Government. Make Local government accountable to the 'customer' and you will end up with a healthier and more symbiotic relationship between the 'customer' and the 'service provider' than currently exists.

If you make local government into more of what it was supposed to be in the first place and less of a way of making money for a some unscrupulous individuals and their business associates, then we are half way there.

But clearly this requires a cultural sea-change on one or both sides. Though an attempt at change from one side is better than from no side at all. Perhaps if Westminster stopped treating us all like the criminal nation it feels that we are then our representatives, (and many of our citizens too) wouldn't feel the need to fulfil the stereotype for the benefit of their representatives.

Yours sincerely,

JJ Shaw.

Richard Lovelace wrote, "Stone walls do not a prison make" and I daresay the Danish are borrowing English literary ideas about all situations being to a greater or lesser extent "prisons".
Globe-trotting for penal systems is not new, and they are better understood with 3 theories of punishment: deterrent, punitive, rehabilitative.
Surely the British Justice basics hold good, that "outside" should be a decidedly better place than "inside"?

great, interesting show

finally some real politics, dealing with real issues, with views from people with direct experience of them

you should follow this approach more, it works to get people interested again in politics

Justin

An interesting discussion. It seems the main theme that came up again and again was "trust the people and they will be successful". So why all the concentration of power in London?

In Switzerland decisions, taxes, and services are all controlled locally, and they work a lot better than many in the UK.

We have broadband computer connections on comfortable and profitable trains that run on time; a health system with no queues for rich or poor; a pension system that provides adequately for the retired; a justice system that treats addiction as the illness it is, not as a crime; a criminal justice system that rehabilitates and keeps crime off the streets - not by locking people up, but by taking away the causes of crime; a social security system that is worthy of the name; and a tax system that varies tax rates by village or town and by so doing keeps taxes low by letting the population vote for or against specific taxes and local services.

How did the Swiss arrive at this semi-utopia? Not by voting once in five years for a government located hundreds of miles away. Every Canton (UK equivalent = County) raises its own Income Tax, has its own legal system, parliament and civil service. Some 15 to 20 votes per year (initiated by a petition of 50,000 or 100,000 signatures only) are held to decide on constitutional policy issues.

National politicians elected by Proportional Representation only sit for a quarter of the year and control minimal services and take the smallest portion of income tax raised.

For public services to work effectively, centralised control is really not the answer. Nor I suspect is a "First past the post" electoral system which guarantees no recent UK government has ever enjoyed majority support in the country.

This is the most exciting piece of television that I can remember seeing in my life. Could the political thoughtscape really transform towards finding solutions?

I thought the example of healthcare in Cuba was fascinating. Note how they focus on preventative health. Why might they do that? Perhaps because if patients reach a state where they need more expensive treatment the state simply doesn't have the money to pay the drug companies. So in the good "space pen" (see note below) tradition (and I don't care if it *is* an urban legend) they find a cheaper solution: prevention.

This focus on prevention clearly seemed to me to be the essence of the example's possible contribution and I was interested to see how in fact initial reactions of participants in the programme was to look, not entirely constructively, at some of the problems and differences between the UK and Cuba. There remains an opportunity to really explore how prevention could contribute to national health.

What interests me most, however, was not the particular example of healthcare, but this programme's shake-up of what is national political discussion. The political process has the opportunity to make a genuine quantum leap forward by declining to criticise and by exploring the bits that might work, instead of immediately talking about the problems might get us to a solution faster.

If anyone would be interested in collaborating to produce a book entitled "Positive Thinking for Politicians" please get in touch at duncanmacmillan@yahoo.co.uk

Seconds into the ptogramme I decided to tape it on my video recorder. This programme is a landmark in the evolution of the political discussion in this country. Solutions-oriented discussion in politics is clearly the way forward. Being open-minded enough to consider the possibility that both best practices and creative solution-finding can be found in politics as much as in business.

Sterling work!

Note: An explanation of the space pen story can be found here:

Crikey...more Newsnights like tonight's please, I only tuned in by accident and caught the last 10-15mins. I find the engineered combat often served up as news utterly tedious. For what it's worth, it has to be about 10yrs since I contacted a TV station to comment on a program.

There is a very simple approach to improving public transport that was outlined in 'Yes, Minister' - that is our 'servants' should have to share our everyday experiences. If our politicians, senior civil servants and local government senior officials had to use public transport then it would start to get some constructive attention. This would apply to aspects of education, crime and health as well.

I'd much rather have a 大象传媒 crew sent on fact finding missions to other countries to find out how they do things - much better than sending political people for the following reasons:
cheaper,
recorded evidence is actually made available,
little political bias (if any).
And I think we need to keep our rather slippery politicians where we can see them, so can we have the money that politicians spend on foreign jaunts diverted to the 大象传媒 purse solely to expand this type of research?

I'd also like to support two previous posts.

Supporting Post 20
I felt there was a significant improvement in the level of presentation and discussion over the usual Newsnight format. This was due to the quality of the people involved, and to keeping the programme format simple. I believe there is no point in including 'impressive' public figures or 'impressive' screen graphics if they do not add substantially to the available information or to the quality of discussion. This is especially relevant now as senior government figures have taken to avoiding informative programmes when it might seem difficult for them, and they prefer instead to use programmes as opportunities for electioneering.

Supporting Post 15
I was also interested in the people featured in the discussions. Please put some sort of background on your website. Was it a Youth Worker involved in the Prisons discussion who made the point about participating in the democratic process? I thought I saw a brief caption indicating that he was an author. If I had the information I would lookup his books on the web.

I have no connection either with the 大象传媒 or any of the participants, other than as a viewer.

A very good programme. In common with lots of other contributors, congratulations on the choice of people involved - different points of view freely emerged. Noone appeared to just score points or to push platitudes.

When it comes to the content, I felt that there was too much time spent on the repeat of actual reports at the expense of the ensuing dialogue. Perhaps this is because I have seen all the reports previously!

I was disappointed with conversations around education and prisons.

In the education, all speakers missed the crucial point totally - that of working to enhance individual pupil's strengths. This is a progressive approach, one endorsed by Positive Psychology. Quite honestly, this fixation on National Curricullum is both tiresome and wasteful of real talents of pupils - thy have much more diversity and capability than any curricullum can encompass. Incidentally, I was missing in the panel a sixth-former - someone who could have shown that curricullum emperor had no clothes!

On the prison debate, I just could not believe that author who kept on repeating the same mantra: "We tried it before and it did not work." Sorry, this is such a lame excuse - there are so many possible explanations why it might not have worked that such explanation is just not good enough.

Please carry on these much more open and democratic programs.

I am sorry to see that Eric seems to be stuck in the mire again, lighten up Eric and get your geography right (Portland is in Oregon)!

This was a 'great programme' and could be the kind to 'replace' "Dimbleby's" - 'QUESTION(able)TIME'
At long last Jeremy was listening (almost as gentle as University Challenge)and the variety of guests were able to express views in an 'uninterrupted manner'(the big failing of QUESTION TIME!)
Gripping from start to finish.
MORE MORE
GT

Tonights programme attempted to analyse Public services of other Countries ultra extreme policies... this type of progamme commits participants to so much material it all becomes rather blurred... & there's never enough time (50mins)to do the subjects/ policies justice.
Why start a debate that can never thoroughly compare like for like issues .( suchlike discussions are far more suited to after- dinner conversations with a bottle of decent wine.)Jeremy was OK playing mine host , but his talents are far better used taking on the the harder daily political issues,albeit there seems to be a reluctance to tackle & to indulge/engage with what he does best.. his passion!Why not debate a topical, very topical, current issue like the White Paper on Pensions...& debate what our freaky, means testing Chancellor's trying to deliver a policy that is seriously flawed.!!.. matter that will have serious implications on future generations.

Unfortunately the time slot meant that i missed nearly three quarters of it.
However what i did see was the part about the penal sytem in Denmark; it actually made me laugh.
The United kingdom is not Denmark and the belief that mixed prisons where people are allowed to form relationships within a state institution which they have been sent to recieve punishment is really a joke.
It might seem like a good idea in principle, but as the youth worker stated, some of the young people who are incarcerated time after time might decide that they are better off in jail than out of it.
I think in this country we cannot align ourselves with europe , especially on criminality, we are more closely, related to America in terms of behaviour and how we think and behave. The Penal system might need reforming, but the penal system would be half the size if the Education system hadn't failed Youngsters in the first place.
I'd ask one question for a survey, How many graduates end up in the penal system?

The "Public Services" discussion was the best Newsnight in years, because it was mostly sensible, calm discussion by people having first-hand knowledge of the services, instead of the aggressive, emotive point-scoring which most politicians indulge in. Let's have more of these well-informed discussions.

The least interesting discussion was about crime and punishment- everyone seemed clear that the Danish approach would not work in the UK, but no one really looked at WHY that is? If, as it appears, the Danes are much more civilised than us, then this would be an interesting subject to examine.

The black bloke who'd written a book called "No Mans' Land" talked a lot of sense- how about letting him make a programme?

Hi, Jeremy Paxman,
Your programme looked, interesting,with people qualified to give opinions. Unfortunately I cannot make a comment,because I have lived in France for too long, and know very little about English services. I can however, comment on what was regarded as the best Medical Service in Europe, and that was in France. I believe, that having cancer in France, takes you off paying Medical Charges, in otherwords, cancer patients are treated free. I also believe, that there is an hospital north of Lyons, which is run for the English primarily, and I suppose other nationalities, which specialises in cancer cases only, from the start to the end of the treatment. Please do not quote me as the absolute authority. I has been told to me by various cancer patients, both French and English.
Kind Regards, Jennifer W.

I had watched most of the reports on public services around the world (I think I missed education), so was looking forward to the debate programme last night. In many ways it didn't disappoint - I thought the format worked reasonably well, and Jeremy managed the discussions effectively. I agree with other comments about shortness of time and too long spent re-capping the original reports, but you can't have everything!
But what really struck me about the programme was the generally negative tone taken by all but a couple of the contributors. The "it wouldn't work here" or "we tried that before" attitudes were unbelievable, and at times, bordering on defensive. It seems to me that this is what is wrong with public services - by and large these organisations are populated by those who fear change (and perhaps retribution for admitting mistakes). If those individuals had been from private sector organisations they would have been saying "Wow! Isn't that interesting. What can we learn from that?", instead of questioning the country choices and claiming there's nothing wrong with what we do here in the UK.
I wonder if this is really what people are looking for when they talk about running public services more like the private sector - things get done in private sector organisations, and change and innovation are the norm. I am absolutely not an advocate of privatisation, but there has to be a way to transplant some positivity into our public services - perhaps this is, as suggested, about localising decision-making, as people would have a vested interest in changes and be looking actively for solutions.
What was clear to me by the end, was that, whilst there may be some very committed people working in health, education, prisons and transport, they are too entrenched in their views to enact any real change. Now that's disappointing!

BLAIRITES! THEY'D RATHER WE WERE HUMBLE THAN GO TO WORK...WHEN BLAIR GOES HUMILITY GOES TOO! HURRAH...

In schools, in universities, in the police, at the doctors, recruiters, managers, all are pugnaciously impudent about humility, and women too, all expect complete submission and inferiority to the point of brain closure and failure..i should have got healthcare but the doctor served humility demands only...i should have got a well done from the police but they arrested me instead...the firsts i got at university when i powered up to work should have come more frequently but for the many forces of humility...i should have got more pay....

The nation, the demand economy...is intermittently depressed by the forces of humility and the violence intimidation and victimisation that goes with it...Blairism

Blair wants compliance impudent respect and behaviour to enforce humility everywhere ...and all their kind especially misogynist women agree..... turning us from the happy productive successful good natured... into melancholic angry annoyed outlaws...all so they can win with their climbing economy of negligence lying and denial...and make the us serve the public services they want to provide, punishing when what is wanted is asked for...it is their lying meritocracy against our traditional lawful autocracy...Blairite humility must go with Blair!! ...We would rather go to work and have it all!!

I started off work as a post boy... they wanted me to be humble... but i did even that strategically... and within 8 months had risen up four pay grades from 拢4.50ph to 拢14ph busting the humble compliance pressures every day to take over the budgets forecasting and accounting of 拢20million quids worth of projects to get 拢24k that year...the boss liked the confrontation and the drive for action..

But the police don't ...i reported a crime having previously stopped incidents of car vandalism and got guys arrested, stopped four fights, and stopped an assault on a woman, and stopped a women from being run over..but they don't record any of that..ohno. i went to a police station to report a suspected horrific rape and the women did not like my recruitability, drive, thought, knowledge, and command, and arrested me for it when it turns out nothing had happened..they don't like lawfulness everyone is criminal on the inside they believe...

...they wanted me to be humble and got me sedated! into incapacity...outrageous! but that is Blairites for you...

they would rather i be humble.... rather i was disabled... than go to work!!!

Blarism must die!... every time humility happens it is backed up by unquestionable violent moral supremacy that has to be driven out....so does he...

In schools, in universities, in the police, at the doctors, recruiters, managers, all are pugnaciously impudent about humility, and women too, all expect complete submission and inferiority to the point of brain closure and failure..i should have got healthcare but the doctor served humility demands only...i should have got a well done from the police...the firsts i got at university when i powered up to work should have come more frequently but for the many forces of humility...

The nation, the demand economy...is intermittently depressed by the forces of humility and the violence intimidation and victimisation that goes with it...

Blair wants compliance impudent respect and behaviour to enforce humility everywhere ...and all their kind especially women agree..... turning us from the happy productive successful good natured... into melancholic angry annoyed outlaws...all so they can win with their climbing economy of negligence lying and denial...it is their lying meritocracy against our traditional lawful autocracy...Blairite humility must go with Blair!! We would rather go to work and have it all!!

The potential of man and our morale is more important than any hostile humblism misogynism and economic impudence...look how miserable people become.... look how they fight to take, rather than create..look how they degenerate into self aggrieved moralities rather than concern and care for world fascinations initiatives and achievements...

Blairite humility vindictivism and misogynism must be extirpated retrained and replaced by conservative and real labour liberal democrat lawfulness!

Benedict TLC

Having skimmed through the comments posted so far, I am amazed that hardly anyone has commented on what must be one of the worst presented television programmes I have ever seen.
I will agree with many that the subjects and comments were often interesting. However the amateur camera work, poor lighting and strange shadows, coupled with the sight of various cameramen and booms, and the fact that the contributors all seemed to be sitting on boxes in a shed, were completely distracting and bizarre.

How refreshing to have a "listening" Jeremy Paxman. Might the success of this programme encourage him to do it more often?

Thank you, Mr Paxman. A thought provoking programme which we all enjoyed. Can we have more of the same, please.

Alex

I really enjoyed the programme, an excellent change to watch a civilised discussion.

I am really dissapointed I have missed Wednesday show.I have lived in many countries.Spent 8 years in Africa.
I live and worked in France for the past fourteen years.The system in France is excellent.Example every two years I receive a government later telling me to make an appointment for a managram. Also an ultra sound done the same day. Off I trot appointment made for 2 days later. Was in and out within 45 miniutes.Received results one week later.(That exam was free)However in france you and your employer pay alot for the service.The more you earn the more you pay.My charges were say 拢300 per month,the company pay the same.Then if you are in the union you both make an extra contribution.Then you get reimbursed 100%.Your wife and children are covered by your insurance.But if you have not got the extra cover.
1.Only reimbursed 80%
2.Only normal dentist work carried out.
3The clinics & hospital I have seen here fantastic 2 people to a room.with own shower & toilet,telephone,TV.Extra charge.Antiseptic handwash out side room for visiters.Hospitals spotless.

I thought the programme was excellent, both in content and format. I did feel that too many subjects were crammed in, however. Each of the four discussions deserved a programme all to itself, to enable more in-depth discussion. How refreshing to listen to people who knew what they were talking about, rather than spin politicians!!
A measure of the programme's success - my husband generally opts out while I watch, but was rivetted to the screen throughout this time - Well done, Newsnight, lets have more of this!

I agree with several posts stating the time constaints on the programme was insufficient to do justice to the debates.
There must be the potential to do a longer programme on each subject.

On the transport issue it seems that we have contradictory policies in this country.

We encourage out of town developments, that can often only be reached by car and with free parking, but charge people to park in towns and have inefficient and expensive public transport.

I live a mile from town yet it costs more for one person (never mind a family) to use the bus than to drive and park; and parking charges mean it's cheaper to drive out of town.

That councils are not even "allowed" to provide cost effective (free) transport within the town where it overlaps with private bus companies, who will only service many routes if subsidised by the council, thwarts any attempt at sensible reform.

Portland show that a clear vision and working consistently towards it can bring results.

Dear Jeremy Paxman,
Your programme certainly brought alot of attention to Britain's NHS, even though it was slightly negative response from the British. From what I have heard since,through Newsnight, there seems to be another question to ask, why are so many hospitals being designated to the private sector? I thought that had more or less finished in the Thatcher era. Obviously,I am wrong, although I did point out to you,I have not lived in the U.K. for some time. I was told by one French Dr.,that the French were trying to adopt the British system, in relation that you must see a Dr. first to visit a specialist. In France, no disrespect, people tended to change doctors more than they changed their cars! If they didn't get a result they wished for, change the Dr. That has now been stopped, and a wind can be felt blowing through the once excellent medical services obtainable in France. A suggestion only, take your ideas on the world to Europe? - Jennifer W. Enjoyed the programme.

The UK national health service is saved only by the thousands of dedicated individuals who work day in day out,often for very little money.The government's priorities are a joke-why can a teenager get all his tattoos removed when my elderly aunt is crippled by arthritis for lack of physiotherapy?The dental service is also in crisis-I cannot even find an NHS dentist in my local phone book.I only hope that public services still extend to putting fluoride in the water.

Some of the messages here are really uplifting. It is true that people look at Africa in a very strange way. Partly because the media has zeroed in on negatives instead of striking a balance between informing and educating. Take the case of news from Eastern Africa as a case study. Most international agencies (including journalists-actually they like hanging out in the trendy Nairobi night clubs) working in Central and Eastern Africa live or operate from Nairobi-Kenya.

But the sort of information they file back here in the west is unbelievable skewed and it does not enlighten those who have not travelled to these countries. In the contrary, they write or twist facts to conform with the stereotypes. If they are not the ones doing it then it must be their editors back here.

A few example can help explain my argument. When the Somalia Parliament was being inaugurated in Kenyan soil in 2005, most UK papers (the few that bothered to write) wrote 20 or so word-boxed-item in the cluttered pages. Yet the story how poor countries like Uganda and Kenya had helped nurture the peace process in Somalia at the expense of their own poor people would have made a good reading. But typical of the stereotypes, when the Somali MPs disagreed and engaged in running battles, the journalist in Nairobi found it newsworthy to not only write longer articles about it, but they showed TV clips of the chairs flying. Actually the clip was repeated several times.
One other example is the popular corruption beat. There has never been serious news items on the victims of the corrupt regime. How about a balanced story on how honest people survive in Africa? How about a nice story or clip showing the poor farmers who dig large tracts of land with hand hoes from 6 am-6pm? These people are poor not because they are lazy as the african myth goes but because they do not get the government support that we take for granted in the west.

I wonder whether the western media community based in Africa know that people pay school fees right from nursery school, they pay medical fees, buy drugs at retail price, there is no state welfare/subsidies, no free council housing, no incapacity /unemployment benefits, no electricity or running water etc. Yet these poor souls soldier on. Their poor children going through a tough education system where they have to buy pens and text books still make it to university. They could spur and encourage our over-protected kids in the west to work harder in school if their story was properly told. Instead of writing negative stories these positive should make news.

The same theme keeps coming through!
The gratuitous opinions of people of little consequence are irritating in the extreme.
The disinterested opinions of the experienced and/or specially qualified are more than welcome.
It is obvious. Some broadcasting organisations should see that they need a change of direction.

Dear Newsnight,

Yes. I should very much like you to use my licence fee funds in support of some programming as per Patrick Omari's suggestions at Posting No. 58 above.

The challenge would be how not to simply 'drop in' armed only with our ever well-meaning but (possibly) utterly anachronistic, taken-for-granted, 'hegemonic' view - of the world at large and how TV is 'supposed' to 'mediate' therein.

Suggestion/Dare:
Forget about the Sky (blue, progressively dark, or otherwise)...ummm...Close your eyes and think of....errr...the Earth.

Whatever you do, forget for the duration of this particular dare, every current rant about Ratings & Representation that has been the common currency of the past 20-odd years...

That's my tuppenceworth. It won't necessarily please "Collected Eric" but might be worth something to/for others.

Thanks.