大象传媒

A gradual pulling out of troops from Iraq is good news; whether or not they are re-deployed in Afghanistan is another issue -- NATO member countries have a duty and obligation to support the effort in Afghanistan. We shouldn't confuse the missguided motives of the ideologues in Washington with the just cause in Afghanistan.

Thatcher represented all the women our fathers were getting divorced from ...

A liberation of argument and power back into opportunism and proving yourself as a man....

It was an era when we ate faster than anyone else to get more than they did..the 80s... convenience before etiquette... a denouncement of behaviourism and a freedom to destroy the establishment within a realm of maternal provision and exploitation... with faster eat moves per second period arose a fundamental opportunity to grow bigger and win the school...our creative appetites moved faster than anyone elses...into the future of seconds and thirds...

Musically we were fashion liberated by Adam ant...and inspired by spurs to try every kind of move and athleticism and by Arsenal to kick their legs out if they dared to do it better...

It was the television of Gerry Adams and the minors that awoke the world of the warrior who knows it better... and the Falklands that prepared us with the ambition to move the whole world to prove what we own ... and cars and scrummagers we worked it out on... the era was so strong we were carrying our fathers on our backs...

But they were feminising and liberalising the teaching system to all our detriment... no more systematic Latin only poetic stuff, then no more poetry, no more religious preparation, less science and less support of our appetites for creating our own coursework.... the teachers became pathetic... and they started choosing small gay people for our positions of glory!!

What does "athorised" mean?

It has just flashed up on screen in the context of describing Margaret Thatcher's "Athorised biographer".

Rare to see a spelin nistake in Newsnight.

Maggie - greatest PM ever.

On the news tonight..

Firsty... a new bronze statue of Mrs Thatcher is unveiled at parliament.

Second...High Court victory for pensioners

Protests have been growing over lost pensions
Four people who lost all or part of their company pensions have won their High Court case against the government.

So the person who made it possible for these people to lose there pensions has a bronze statue unveiled at parliament.

You couldn`t make all this up could you?.

Maggie - greatest PM ever.

Thatcher represented an economic skew of the economy towards eminence and the establishment of hatred ignorance prejudice and violence as a source of income...and the way for them to win...

Thesis testing and experimental self service encouraged an idleness of under-researched and a hyper inflation of self interest...with a retraction of social responsibility, leadership and duty ...and increasing enjoyment of survivalist primitivisms and anarchies of irresponsibility...

The legacy of economic prejudice and ignorant self belief is the biggest risk to any man in everyway in society today...

Opportunist accountability social coporatism and love of the challenges of improvement..real conservatism... the caring kind worth working for made us who we are and made the world what it became... great Britain plc everywhere we look....

Des Browne seems far smarter than the average of Ministers and their juniors brave enough to appear on Newsnight. But I simply do not believe him. Altering his familiar mantra to suit today's announcement, repeatedly assuring us that he is on the same page as Washington, and that those who have criticised his policy really agree with it etc. Whether it is the environment, taxes, Iraq or cash for honours, this Govt's hapless Ministers seem to have been house trained by the same person.

Thatcher deserves to be cast in Bronze whilst still alive, though some still wish this happened literally, and years ago. She certainly transformed the UK, and took on vested interests that were holding the country to ransom. However, this came at the cost of transfering huge wealth to a new vested interest, the financial services sector. The banks, privatized utilities and insurance companies now earn superprofits whilst the nation wallows in feelgood induced debt. An outstanding leader yes, but poorly advised and served. Had she accounted for social costs as well as economic costs, she would have been the greatest ever. And, everybody knows, SHE would have stood up to Bush, and Iraq would either not have happened, or succeeded.

Excellent informative piece about the CIA and Porter Goss. In the old days we used to hear stories like this about the KGB. How the world has changed.

Hey Newsnite! Ever hurd of speelchick? Describing someone as Athorised Biographer is so below Paxman level, it's incredible. The guy must have got a eunuch to spin for him in his mansion when he saw athorised flash up on screen repeatedly.

I thought I was seeing things the first time, but no, the director missed it and posted the misspel a few more times.

Btw, in response to a post earlier. The minors weren't affected by Maggie. The MinErs might have been (Thanks Arthur!)but I don't recall the under-16s fighting the police at any Steel Works...

The next generation of bronzed thatcherites..the children of white women pimped by black dudes because labourites forced them out of their futures...

Thatcher was the harbinger of individualism. Selfishness, greed and 'no such thing as society' are her truly evil legacies. We, in 2007, now live this life with these distorted values and elect the Blairs and Browns of this world to determine how we deal with our own moral impoverishment. Whether her image is bronze or her own skin (my preference), her evil will still seep through.

As a feminist who spent her working life teaching systematic Latin to both girls and boys who wanted to learn it, all I can say to poster no. 2 is - roll on the world in which stereotypes don't rule OK.

On the very day that Blair finds it nessassary to eat humble pie and admit that a withdrawl of british troops is because the iraq goverment is now in control of Basra,ranks along side is WEAPONS OF MASS DESTUCTION Lie. Sadly the Iraq goverment and more importantly the security forces,are not in control,the true fact is that the areas pinpointed,are being given up,to the insurgence,while we RETREAT,back to the Airport.Just like the Thatcher era an oppertunity to close the gap,between the social classes,with all the wealth at their disposal,as been totally missed,and once again the losers are the vast majority of hard working ,honest Families,contributing to this country,deserted by yet another P.M.more interested in is own so called Legacy.I have no doubt that the establishment will in the future strike a bronze of Blair,might i suggest it is one where his head in buried in the sand.(of Iraq)and shame.

Perhaps another reason for the British heading out(as the Americans are heading in)might be to put some blue water between themselves and local Shias when the aircraft carriers start to letting loose on Iran.
The Iranians are likely to see it that way.

As for Thatcher:if sex began in 1964, and greed in 1979,then'Working Class' was done by 1997. And in a country that can't see the future for the past, that don't win many learned friends.

I can't believe how Right-leaning the "debate" on Thatcher's legacy was - the guy from the IPPR might as well not have been there.

The emasculation of working class people and our institutions - particularly the trade union movement - was never "necessary". Thatcher's butchery of working class communities is still very much in evidence. And the pose of the statue, with imperiously-pointed finger, says it all.

I didn鈥檛 see the debate on Newsnight but the comments here are interesting. Anne (post #11) describes Thatcher鈥檚 declaration that 鈥渢here is no such thing as society鈥︹�� as part of her 鈥渆vil legacy鈥�. Thatcher鈥檚 point was that society is build from the ground up, not from the top down. She meant that society is the sum our interactions; it is the result of individuals taking responsibility for their lives, interacting with others, being creative and productive. Society is not a rigid structure with individuals as the building blocks. The social fabric disintegrates when government intervention takes responsibility from the individual and then attempts to recreate society through legislation and initiatives. This has been shown in the massive socialist experiments of Mao鈥檚 China, Soviet Russia and Castro鈥檚 Cuba; all absolute failures. It can also be seen, to some extend, in Britain today. Thatcher made a deeply moral point and she was right.

Also, Chris鈥� (#16) idea that Thatcher 鈥渂utchered鈥� working class communities is a fallacy. To take this view you have to forget the rampant inflation and debilitating industrial action during Jim Callaghan鈥檚 鈥淲inter of Discontent鈥�. Northern communities don鈥檛 look back with longing to the days when their livelihood depended on deep seam coal mining, probably the most inhuman of industrial activities.

mrs thatchers statue doesn't make sense unless you also have one of arthur scargill?

does the statue have the motto 'there is no such thing as society'? Which would be a fine morning meditation for their Lordships?

Funny how the inheritance Thatcher got in 1979 gets little attention.
Shame!

If ever another Thatcher was needed, it is now, and for the same reasons as before!
Feed her on Duracell Batteries and get her fired up again, the country needs you!

We already have legislation for the 18yr olds to receive the same 5yr detention as the over 21s if found guilty of gun crimes ...but reportedly it's never been successfully enforced...Why? ...it's just like so many other legislations... NOT used for the purposes intended/not thought through, & the fault must lie within the Home Office...that says it all!
(i.e How many people have you seen on their mobiles whilst driving...how many have you seen getting away with it? in sight of the law enforcers..have a look around when next driving , at your own habits also, what are the conviction statistics? very, very low..Any vehicle is a very heavy calibre bullet that can kill..& it's said to be as dangerous as drink driving!)
Michael Meacher says he is a contender for the office of PM... cannot really take this seriously, being sceptical, he will make Gordon Brown look VG ...if thats possible!Charles Clarke would present a real battle of the heavyweights..a real challenge..I wonder!
Would be good for Labour democracy if they didn't have a coronation.

The troops will be out when the oil runs out.

#21 George Dutton

For all you folks who imagine that our presence in Iraq is about oil (鈥渂lood for oil!鈥�) please ask yourself this: If it was about oil, wouldn鈥檛 it have been simpler and cheaper just to buy it? It is only about oil in the sense that bloody dictators of Saddam鈥檚 ilk, with infinite funds (sales from oil reserves), pose a real threat to the world. If Saddam didn鈥檛 have oil revenues he wouldn鈥檛 have had the resources to pose a threat to anyone and he probably would have been deposed years ago. It is only in this respect that this was about oil.

Well, it would be nice to be off the South before the U.S. attack Iran. However, no one ever knows what the 鈥渂ushites鈥� will do next and when, do we?

There is only a few people having had their statues on display while still alive (hope you do know who). I think Mrs 鈥淢aggie鈥� Thatcher rightly belongs to their company. Birds of a feather 鈥�

I have been trying to find out if there are any new deveopments concerning allowing individuals and their families to enter the US under special visa's-(I am referring to Iraqee citizens that have served the US military and now they and their families are in grave danger-) My husband and I were the lucky -(blessed) ones to gain entry-but that took over seven months staying in Jordan without jobs-spending our entire life savings..and I am an American..but believe you me it was not an easy process..We are so terribly worried about our family there in Baghdad---On the news in Jordan they were saying special provisions were being made for this kind of a thing-but when I ask here at the immigration office I hit a brick wall (not to mention suffering some opinionated comments from one of the employees---) If anyone has any information-please let me know...My husband was just one of the many that recv'd death threats-and of course that extends to all of the family memebers...and of course we had friends that lost their life for doing the same thing-it is not right that the surrounding countries take on all of the burden of allowing refugees in-we need to do our share..and more and show support to those who have helped us.