大象传媒

大象传媒.co.uk

Talk about Newsnight

Latest programme

Thursday, 1 March, 2007

  • Newsnight
  • 1 Mar 07, 06:51 PM

gordon_203.jpgGordon Brown announces his plans for Public Sector pay; anxious parents learn of their children鈥檚 secondary school placements; Gen Jack Keane, overseer of the so-called 鈥渟urge鈥 strategy in Iraq talks to Newsnight; and Michael Crick unearths some party leader pics.

Comment on here.

Comments  Post your comment

"Gordon Brown announces his plans for Public Sector pay"

Rich get richer, poor get poorer.

  • 2.
  • At 07:41 PM on 01 Mar 2007,
  • Accountant Socialist wrote:

IF WE GOT PAID FOR OUR POLITICS AS SOME PEOPLE DO....

Blairites think they are paid for winning..they fight for position so are always an expense a waste and a risk that needs educating back to work

"Conservatives" think they are paid cos you lost.. so they play for position and try to destroy any new contributions initiatives and enthusiasms

Liberals get paid for improvement in peoples' lives..we think win win and enjoy discovery...

And most of us actually get paid for appreciation of others, ability to participate, and contribution towards worthwhile objectives...

  • 3.
  • At 08:25 PM on 01 Mar 2007,
  • A Head Master Advisors son.. wrote:

School facilities should be open all year every day including Sundays...much more capacity for everyone...with funded courses mixing with fee paying ones...as more or less practically happens...

The set up should allow all registered students to join courses appropriate for their knowledge whenever is suitable for them throughout their years...whatever hours their family and the school wants them there...

That is a popularly promoted point of view....that awakens fondness of old days that worked sentimentally and practically...now enhanced with options from around the world via publishers the media and the net..

Instead Selectivism is believed in by the vain shrink economists...and used to degrade and waste almost everybody into futility and hostilities of lack of appreciation knowledge and empowerment...and break down the association and companionabilities that come naturally...those developed by company and business charactered families of creative power...that they want to break down and win the money and pride off...

Anyone should be able to use facilities to teach the knowledge of their life just like in adult education...most from companies could do that for free as a charitable donation with tax benefits..or as part of a co-operative movement...

The nation curriculum excludes most from much of the knowledge they could actually use productively building up portfolios of approach for a great life contributing to society...wasting time is offensive to everybody...

Most genders of society want to explore all possibilities of what is shown to be worth it for them...

The motive to beat others is much more appetiteful for society and for the advantage taking economy; ...

Kids should be free to explore the world in a worthy well directed way..free from the minds of behaviourist perverts ...those who drug kids and spread fear in them who are motivating society actively to disestablish them into prison...

Political purities have no place in education..nor does thesis testing...

Education has been almost completely discussed by Britain and the world...

Schools should aim to create a top quality socialism suitable for the competitiveness of the area..with support of the knowledge and tax of the town and the former pupils...

Each head of each pupil should be empowered with head masteries suitable for the subjects and practices studied...

If kids do not want to study with a teacher or vice versa they can leave that class...

The era of economic dominance is being disserted to death...no more predatory truant hunting ...no more disabling of kids who want to do their own thing...

Tomorrows world of the young will be completely empowered to make the most of life...

The problems of today are caused by deliberate economic hostility futility and repression for selectivist beliefs...and by the failures of headmastery to explain and prepare people they do not bother to think are worthwhile...

On genetics; all genetics are enhanced by appreciation of others ..the gen-i-us of life enables generations...all are worth support...

BCD TLC


  • 4.
  • At 09:44 PM on 01 Mar 2007,
  • Bob Goodall wrote:

Dear Newsnight

Isn鈥檛 the truth that Gordon Brown and his cabinet colleagues know that I can treat Unions and traditional labour supporters however they like and somehow, they will still come out and vote for them at election time, and the Unions will still bankroll the party. Why goodness only knows.

The high rollers in the city on the other hand like to see something tangible for their money, so they tend to get their views listened to and acted upon.

Other parties have not made the right moves to appeal to significant numbers of left of centre supporters to come over to them, but have tinkered in the centre ground, in a way that could see them being hammered at the next election.

by the way I wouldn鈥檛 put it pass our Prime Minister to have one last card up his sleeve which would be snap election this May. It would certainly provide a possibly wished for electrifrying and terrifying finale to Mr Blair鈥檚 premiership, and might not be so helpful to Mr Browns chances

Best wishes
Bob Goodall

  • 5.
  • At 11:02 PM on 01 Mar 2007,
  • Rhian Williams wrote:

I am now a teacher and do not complain about my pay, only because I use to work within the NHS as a qualified nurse. My wages when I first qualified as a nurse was pathetic, especially considering I was in charge of a trauma ward, still at the age of 21! Times do not seem to have changed. In other countries (Australia for example) nurses are seen as essential to society and are paid in accordance. However, in the Uk there seems to be a manipulation of the fact that nursing is seen as a 'vocational' job and therefore their pay is manipulated in accordance to their dedication to their jobs. It's one of the reasons I left nursing (and am sure that many others feel when they change to different careers). The government is foolhearty in thinking that nurses will stay in the NHS when they are treated as second rate employees (by reflection of their pay, not my the empty words of praise by MP's).
Rhian Williams

  • 6.
  • At 11:29 PM on 01 Mar 2007,
  • Nigel Knox wrote:

You might be interested in some personal research I did on State Funded Schools vs Single Faith Schools I did in Liverpool. I did this after suspecting a bias towards sectarian eduction in Liverpool.

Using the figures I recieved in the post from Liverpool LEA, I calculated the chance of achieving 5 A-C passes for each of the following groups.
1)Faith pupils (those who's parents attend a religous group)
2) Agnoistic pupils (those whose parents would not object to them attending a faith school)
3) Athiest pupils (those whos parents would object to them recieving eduction from a religous viewpoint).

I calculated that in liverpool (for boys) there was a significant discrimination against athiests pupils. By significant, I mean in the statistical meaning. I used the ELA's definition of signiifcant (which they did not define), and assumed a expential curve. Using the schools Value Added scores, I calculated that the athiest boys score was less than the average by more than 4 times the significant amount. Interestingly the difference for girls was less marked. Further more, I caculated that athiest pupils are 28% less likely to achieve 5 A-C grades, then faith pupils. The figure drops to around 23% for agnositic pupils.

I have assumed here that athiest students have parents would not allow thier children to attend a faith school. Of coarse many faith schools implicitly discriminate against the children of athiest. (by prefering the children of any faith).

It comes to me as no surprise that the leaders of the two largest parties in britain both send thier children to a single faith schools!

  • 7.
  • At 11:32 PM on 01 Mar 2007,
  • Pauline Campbell wrote:

Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Stephen Timms, came under robust questioning from Jeremy Paxman, who asked: is this the bust after the boom?

A recent front-page article in The Guardian, 17.02.07: "拢350m black hole in new prison plan" revealed that the cash-strapped Home Office has no funding to run 8,000 new places [touted by Mr Reid as his greatest success since taking over as Home Secretary]. The Treasury has repeatedly made it clear that it will not reopen the Whitehall budget negotiations. Within 'New' Labour, does the left hand actually know what the right hand is doing?

Brilliant interview by Jeremy (13/10) with Stephen Timms on the paltry rise in public sector workers pay. Wonderful painting of David, Boris et al - ha ha ha @ proposal that one of the subjects of the painting make an offer to the artist to keep it out of circulation ;-)
!!!!!!!

  • 9.
  • At 05:22 AM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • henry cossey wrote:

As a child many years ago in England,I sat the examination for entrance to Secondary education, and passed.Much to my teachers disgust I had to refuse to accept because the cost of uniform,equipment etc.was beyond my familys finance.I wonder if things today are any different? On the other hand the PM of austraia maintains every child should have university education.At the same time it costs too much to the parents.So we can say that a university education is not for all,but only for those that can afford the fees etc.Maybe things have not changed a lot.

  • 10.
  • At 10:11 AM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

We should also remind the public sector workers and all voters that Trident has yet to be paid for and were that money has to come from over the next few years.Apart from the cuts New Labour/Tories/Lib Dems plan to make to the social structure of socity i.e. schools, hospitals and housing, pensions, health care.After they have done all that there is still a VAST amount of money to be found and YES it will come from there pockets.

  • 11.
  • At 10:45 AM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • Lionel Tiger wrote:

Well, it looks like the stealth taxing chancellor will stealthily usurp Tonny, from under the noses of British democracy. Once it becomes clear that the draconian bans that the socialists have introduced are almost impossible to enforce and don't solve the solution by addressing the cause and the country is in social strife, then the era of Cameron will arrive and freedom will liberate the nation. The bubble it bursting. It will take some time to repay the national debt and revive British industry, but roll on pragmatism. The cleanup beckons.

  • 12.
  • At 11:45 AM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • Lionel tiger wrote:

Under the auspices of helping the poor, the relative wealth is no greater than before. The minimum wage doesn't help people pay their huge mortgage repayments, a concequence of allowing people to borrow more in a climate of low interest rates. Council tax has reached astronomical levels. University tuition fees have trebled, in fact ten years ago, students got 拢2.5k in grants. Welfare to work, yes, but to make people richer, I don't concur Mr. Brown. Getting more people to work so they can be taxed is not a healthy solution.

  • 13.
  • At 11:58 AM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • Lionel tiger wrote:

Under the auspices of helping the poor, the relative wealth is no greater than before. The minimum wage doesn't help people pay their huge mortgage repayments, a concequence of allowing people to borrow more in a climate of low interest rates. That is if they are lucky enough to be buying a house. Council tax has reached astronomical levels, increased payments for a patchy service. University tuition fees have trebled, in fact ten years ago, students got 拢2.5k in grants. Welfare to work, yes, but to make people richer, I don't concur Mr Brown. Getting more people to work so they can be taxed is not a healthy solution. Income tax has not been raised, but only to pursuade people to work, so they can be taxed. And once again, this Chancellor measures the wrong thing. Surely inflation is a measure of all the bills one is required to pay. CPI is conveniently lower than RPI, but tell that to the Council. 40% plus interest rates on that account, not accounting to the minefields of fines appearing for putting litter in the wrong bin, using a road to get to work, using public transport, having a social life, healthily enjoying leisure, using a prescribed medication, having an ailment, vision impairment or maintenance of teeth that are required to survive. Thank God that the air we breathe is an international resource, although heaven forbid if we breathe too heavily, we can be certain, we will pay the price. The rug has been pulled from beneath us, but eventually the fabric of society which lies upon is not immune to gravity. Unless he knows something we don't, the Higgs Boson will rein in the hippocritical charlatans with predictable efficiency.

  • 14.
  • At 12:20 PM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • dicky wrote:

is Cameron just a toff hoodie? Is this why he identifies with them so much? Like all portraits of ones youth should they be kept in the attic?

perhaps more revealing is the character of the cameron camp that they think nothing of suppression of information. If this is what happens over a harmless picture what might happen if it was something serious? Did boris return to form and send the heavies round? I believe the tradition is to put a bullet and a bag of money on the table and ask 'which one do you want'?

talking of images why is the quality of the newsnight watch again feed worse than sunday am, worse than the daily politics and even worse than newsnight review?

yours pixilated

dicky 'hoodie' bullingdon.

  • 15.
  • At 01:00 PM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • Lionel Tiger wrote:

Maybe in years to come we will see the conspiracy with Lockheed. This Stealth bomber certainly hasn't been seen on Britain's radar yet. Maybe this government hasn't returned it from Iraq yet. But the youth of today can discern the higher frequencies this stealth bomber uses. And their persistance will not be dispersed like a pest on the lawn. The golden rule is not to be silent and not heard, but to invest in the youth. This stealth bomber is not the flock of supersonic pigeons they purport to be. The youth is the future. The youth are not nuisance pigeon's, they are the voters, the society of the future. The past tells us that we ignore our future at our peril. The radar might not see this commando force, but there's plenty of heat emanating from its engines for a heat seeking missile to bring it down.

  • 16.
  • At 01:22 PM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • James Estwick wrote:

Why are we not talking about the bbc broadcast of 9/11? Footage has surfaced which shows a live 大象传媒 broadcast talking about the collapse of World Trade Centre 7 even though the building can be seen still standing in the background! The building did not fall for another 26 minutes! so how did the bbc know even though apparently no one else in the world did?

  • 17.
  • At 04:22 PM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Some one once said a Picture Paints a 1,000 words (or something like it)

Blairs Picture says it all, he knew them what we all know now!

  • 18.
  • At 04:23 PM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Some one once said a Picture Paints a 1,000 words (or something like it)

Blairs Picture says it all, he knew then what we all know now!

  • 19.
  • At 04:28 PM on 02 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Some one once said a Picture Paints a 1,000 words (or something like it)

Blairs Picture says it all, he knew then what we all know now!

  • 20.
  • At 12:25 AM on 03 Mar 2007,
  • Lucy Villette wrote:


Please don't knock religious schools by portraying them as just crammers for opportunistic parents.I send both my children to a Church of England school for sincere reasons of faith.

  • 21.
  • At 05:36 PM on 03 Mar 2007,
  • Brian Kelly wrote:

Reportedly it's costing the Tax payer 拢250,000 in toto ,to support ONE problem Family per year... an excessive sum!.. can it be true?

  • 22.
  • At 10:51 PM on 05 Mar 2007,
  • Bedd Gelert wrote:

Nicholas Lyell is a smart cookie, but the thing is Goldsmith has given dosh to the Labour party. He [PG] has lost the ability to be 'seen to be' above influence.

  • 23.
  • At 10:13 AM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

Ref George Dutton #11

Given the harebrained schemes of Gordon Brown since 1997.

New Labours very Old Labour style of TAX & SPEND

Nothing wrong in spending public money to ensure public security (which nukes have undoubtedly done since 1950's)

Rather than see Brown yet again over tax (esp by stealth) then fail to deliver (education, schools, CJS etc) despite their over use & under investment, our military delivers.

British Armed Forces does what 'it says on the tin'

vikingar

  • 24.
  • At 10:24 AM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

Ref Lionel Tiger #11

Hear Hear

The liberal lefts responsibility in causing social unrest since 1960's with their 'ultra progressive' (but nearing on anarchy) desire to extend 'rights' to all) is the biggest legacy such minority groups have.

Pity its such a whopping big failure to burden mainstream British Society with, but does provide ample evidence to the dubious self promotional lie that Liberal Left claims of 'knowing what is right & best' for all concerned.

That is why there is a continued 'Renaissance of Rights' underway, a realisation by public, policies & agencies, that unworkable changes enforced onto society needs to be unravelled, to created rebalance & stability.

Ill conceived policy imposed onto the majority (who did not ask for it) to suit the vested 'societual engineering' agenda of political minorities, is a recipe for disaster, which social unrest & cultural conflict has proven.

vikingar

  • 25.
  • At 02:19 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

Ref #23 vikingar wrote...

"Nothing wrong in spending public money to ensure public security (which nukes have undoubtedly done since 1950's)"

I suppose all those countries that didn`t have nukes have all been destroyed then?.
Spending 拢25/100 billion or more on British weapons of mass destruction to further threaten the world with nuclear annihilation will do nothing to calm international anxieties about Britain鈥檚 belligerence nor make the world a safer place for any of us.

Ref #23 vikingar wrote...

"Rather than see Brown yet again over tax (esp by stealth) then fail to deliver (education, schools, CJS etc) despite their over use & under investment, our military delivers."

You have for once got something right vikingar and just think how much worse it would all have been had the tories been in power.


  • 26.
  • At 02:45 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Tell us George, How much worse would it have been had the Tories been in Government?

  • 27.
  • At 03:53 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

26. At 02:45 PM on 06 Mar 2007, Maurice - Northumberland wrote:
"Tell us George, How much worse would it have been had the Tories been in Government?"

Well Maurice I can tell you how worse it would have been.I was so shocked at the time I do not remember which station it was on the 大象传媒 or Sky had to be one of them.But you would NEVER forget this...

In the year 2000 while watching the Conservative Blackpool party conference on television.I can only tell it as it happened...Outside the conference hall two members of the Conservative party stood waiting to be interviewed (they were not MP`s but were high up`s in the party) there were asked "What is the big talking point on the floor of this years conference the reply floored me this is what they said...

"It is clear that people don`t know how to use there vote.We left this country in the best economical state it has ever been in and now Labour will ruin it all.The big talking point on the floor is who should be allowed to vote should it be done on academic achievement or given to those who create the wealth or a combination of the two." The other one concurred.

Please note it seems the decision to take the vote away from us had already been decided.

Given that nothing happens on the floor of Conservative party conference without being instgated from above should frighting anyone that cares about democracy.The video of this must still be available in the archives of the 大象传媒/Sky.Why I wonder are the Conservative party getting there members ready for a fascist state?.

  • 28.
  • At 06:18 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

You're a funny guy George!

The Set of National Economic books that Labour inherited in 1997 was without question the best set ever handed to an incoming Chancellor.
Unlike the set Thatcher inherited in 1979 - in case you have forgot, the country had been bankrupted by the Labour Government of Callaghan. To such a degree the IMF ran the economy. Despite the warnings from the IMF. Callaghan and Co. went merrily on it's way to producing the 'Sick Man of Europe'.
You may have noted that the IMF. is giving G. Brown similar warnings of his economic Policies and where they will inevitably lead.
WHat is current National debt?
Include the PFI mortgage that even unborn kids will be saddled with.
Add the 拢5+ billion they have borrowed from the EU. Having given away 'The None Negotiable Rebate'.

Following the next General Election the plight of 1979 will be 10 times worse.
All due the Labour Party having never mastered 'Numbers' financial or others wise, they just can't do them.
Immigration numbers being one and
the Olympics costs being the most recent of poor adding up.

You make reference to Fascism, that is comical, Fascism like Communism is rooted in Socialism!
Lenin - Mao - Hitler all had the cry of 'Up the Workers' etc.
Everyone a very genuine Socialist until they got into power, then the real Politic of Socialism kicked in, just as it is doing in Britain TODAY!
Lenin and Mao's' Versions - destroyed through Economic failures.
Hitlers through military.
And every version demands a hierarchy and the remainder peasants, and if all goes well, the Peasants will be grateful for anything thrown from the table of power. So what does Labour do to achieve this split, easy they import millions of migrants from 3rd world countries, with even a probable amnesty for those who are here illegally.
Who has Camera's monitoring the movement of the peasant?
Who wants to Monitor the movement of vehicles?
Who wants ID cards for the Peasants with vital details on them?
Who wants Access to people homes to check them out?

Get used to it - Socialism is not only a failed concept, but a very corrupt one, it caters for the Mediocre to be in charge of the mediocre (mugs).

PS - I note your name link is to the Scottish Socialists - so why your interest in England?
The Barnett Formula maybe.

  • 29.
  • At 08:35 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

28. At 06:18 PM on 06 Mar 2007, Maurice - Northumberland wrote

"You make reference to Fascism, that is comical, Fascism like Communism is rooted in Socialism!
Lenin - Mao - Hitler all had the cry of 'Up the Workers' etc."

"Fascism like Communism is rooted in Socialism!"

Thats a new on me Maurice???.Fascism Maurice is another name for the extreme right remember Franco, Pinochet,(Thatcher`s ADMITTED soul mate).Unless you want to change the understanding off the word Fascism to mean the left? and not the right.

Lets face it Maurice the left have NOT been in power (Except for Attlee,A VERY SHORT TIME) yet all the right can do is blame the left they have NOTHING left (no pun intended)to defend what the right have done it`s called bankruptcy of though. vikingar the other day was trying to tell us all that Thatcher and Blair were the liberal left now that is what I call Desperation of a right that knows the game is nearly up.

Where you are going wrong Maurice is saying Socialism when you should be saying the RIGHT they have been in power not the left.As for Hitler the beloved of the Tory party In November, 1937, Neville Chamberlain sent Lord Halifax to meet Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels and Hermann Goering in Germany. In his diary, Lord Halifax records how he told Hitler: "Although there was much in the Nazi system that profoundly offended British opinion, I was not blind to what he (Hitler) had done for Germany, and to the achievement from his point of view of keeping Communism out of his country." This was a reference to the fact that Hitler had banned the Communist Party (KPD) in Germany and placed its leaders in Concentration Camps.



  • 30.
  • At 09:26 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

28. At 06:18 PM on 06 Mar 2007, Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

"PS - I note your name link is to the Scottish Socialists - so why your interest in England?
The Barnett Formula maybe."

This once again Maurice is something you do not understand socialists care about all.

To add to my link above...

Anthony Eden, Chamberlain's foreign secretary, did not agree with the policy of appeasement and resigned in February, 1938. Eden was replaced by Lord Halifax who fully supported this policy. Halifax had already developed a good relationship with the German government. After his first visit to Nazi Germany he told his friend, Henry (Chips) Channon: "He (Halifax) told me he liked all the Nazi leaders, even Goebbels, and he was much impressed, interested and amused by the visit. He thinks the regime absolutely fantastic."

  • 31.
  • At 10:34 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

You had better do some research on the the roots of Socialism!
Try where did Hitler Start?
Try where did Lenin/Stalin start?
Try where did Mao start?
Take any of the Former Soviet Union Satellite's what do you find?

Then take a look at the Source Of ALL Dictatorships!
All rooted in the Leftie cry 'Up the Workers' and they meant it and they did it!

So as you say - you have gained a lot of News!

  • 32.
  • At 11:23 PM on 06 Mar 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

Ref George Dutton #25

"You have for once got something right vikingar and just think how much worse it would all have been had the tories been in power"

Well given the Labour party followed Conservative spending commitments for several years - the ideas were being followed.

As pointed out by Northumberland #28, Labour also inherited the golden goose of economics from The Conservatives.

Then New Labour has steadily gotten off piste .... its coming apart.

That鈥檚 the tragic farce, New Labour has become more right wing that The Conservatives have ever been.

And that is the inherent problem, old socialists / neo socialists, cannot do conservative policy.

They are long on ideas & rhetoric, the can steal, adopt & rebrand others policy, but cannot deliver against it *

* the litany of failures amply demonstrates it

As the nation has learnt to its cost, Brown is responsible for domestic social & economic policy (far more than Blair).

TAX & SPEND = unsustainable stealth revenue grabs & failure to deliver = BROWN

Face it socialists perform best in opposition (as inherent rebels) because they do not have to deliver against aspirational promises :)

And do Scottish Socialists perform period?

Q. how much do the SNP rely on scottish conservative protest vote against New Labour in Scotland?

vikingar

  • 33.
  • At 10:17 AM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

32. At 11:23 PM on 06 Mar 2007, vikingar wrote:

"As pointed out by Northumberland #28, Labour also inherited the golden goose of economics from The Conservatives."

The golden goose that a few had but what of the many?.The cost vikingar was the dichotomy off society FAR too much to pay for the few to be rich.

vikingar wrote...

"That鈥檚 the tragic farce, New Labour has become more right wing that The Conservatives have ever been."

No vikingar they come very near though.

vikingar wrote...

"And do Scottish Socialists perform period"

Scotland urgently needs the break with British militarism vikingar we may see the day that the question you ask above will be answered and how.We live in hope.

  • 34.
  • At 10:19 AM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

32. At 11:23 PM on 06 Mar 2007, vikingar wrote

"Q. how much do the SNP rely on scottish conservative protest vote against New Labour in Scotland?"

You don`t know very much about politics north of the border vikingar or you would know that the SNP are a left party? but going to the RIGHT FAST.Many conservative voters vikingar now vote NEW Labour they feel at home with them.

  • 35.
  • At 12:02 PM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

31. At 10:34 PM on 06 Mar 2007, Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

"You had better do some research on the the roots of Socialism!
Try where did Hitler Start?
Try where did Lenin/Stalin start?
Try where did Mao start?
Take any of the Former Soviet Union Satellite's what do you find?"

"Then take a look at the Source Of ALL Dictatorships!
All rooted in the Leftie cry 'Up the Workers' and they meant it and they did it!"

You have at last got it spot on Maurice "All rooted in the Leftie cry "Up the Workers' and they meant it and they did it!"

And all were taken over by the right at birth as you say all "ROOTED" in the left take Hitler/Stalin/Mao they killed off the left (unfair on Lenin Maurice he died before it took off).Take NEW Labour a so called Socialist Party don`t you get it yet?. A rose by any other name Maurice remember if it looks like a dog,barks like a dog and wags it`s tail like a dog you will find Maurice that it is a dog.




  • 36.
  • At 02:56 PM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

Exactly - and New Labour Old Labour, Provisional Labour Continuity Labour, Real Labour or what ever branding they come up with next - Is still The Socialist Mediocraty of the Labour Party, who are not upto the job!
Opposition they can do - Government is way beyond them, any of them.

  • 37.
  • At 05:59 PM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

"Lenin was the initiator of the central drama 鈥 the tragedy 鈥 of our era, the rise of totalitarian states. A bookish man with a scholar's habits and a general's tactical instincts, Lenin introduced to the 20th century the practice of taking an all-embracing ideology and imposing it on an entire society rapidly and mercilessly; he created a regime that erased politics, erased historical memory, erased opposition. In his short career in power, from 1917 until his death in 1924, Lenin created a model not merely for his successor, Stalin, but for Mao, for Hitler, for Pol Pot."
Source:- Time Magazine.https://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/lenin.html

Lenin did more than kill a few in his few years at the top:-

Hitler start in Politics begins here:-
(National Socialist German Workers' party, NSDAP, or Nazis).

And they all stuck it right up the Workers (Peasants), that's Socialism.

  • 38.
  • At 06:08 PM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

36. At 02:56 PM on 07 Mar 2007, Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

"Exactly - and New Labour Old Labour, Provisional Labour Continuity Labour, Real Labour or what ever branding they come up with next - Is still The Socialist Mediocraty of the Labour Party, who are not upto the job!
Opposition they can do - Government is way beyond them, any of them."

How can they be Socialist if they are applying capitalism principles???.

I give up on you Maurice.

  • 39.
  • At 06:59 PM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

What Capitalist Principles?

Principles that Stagnates a country?
Principles that is happy to see jobs and Companies moving elsewhere?
Principles that make the Brits emigrate in the 100's of thousands (those who have given up on the country already), with many more to follow.
Yes the Meritocracy is leaving the sinking ship captained and run by a mediocre incompetent crew!
Principles to take all to the lowest common denominator, in education, health, crime, you name it.
Or maybe Colonisation by the importation of Ethnic Minorities and any other Mr ann Mrs Joe Foreigner.
Principles of Widening the Rich and Poor gap.
Principles of putting pensioners in jail for objecting to being ripped off with massive Council Tax increases.
Or could it be the Principle of transferring National power on a weekly basis to other countries, not forgetting vast sums of money.
Principles of breaking the UK into bits, where England (nine regions) is not even an EU recognised country.
Principles of turning the country and population into the most monitored anywhere in the Western World - Chip fitted at birth will be the next step.
Taxing everyone into oblivion.
Principles of Liars in Government.
Etc - Etc - Etc.
Oh those principles, Look to 70 years in Russia for those principles.
ie. Those at the top are outside the laws that apply to a peasant population.
Placing the country into massive debts not just for now but atleast for another 30 years.
The tough 80's were a consequence of the last incompetent useless Labour Government - what the hell this lot will leave is terrifying.
These are the Principles applied/imposed in Labour (Socialist) Party Britain today, just as they have been anywhere else by Socialists.

Get used to it - Socialism is a thing of previous centuries, it has no place today. Though Britain will probably the last to realise it, and I include the 大象传媒 in being last.
The consequences that will surely will be drastic.
I did the 70's and 80's and there is no way am I doing what has to follow the next GE.
Infact I have done it all since 1945 - worked abroad most of my working life, 15 years of which were in the Former USSR and the rest of Eastern Europe as it was. So don't try to sell me Socialism, it is like trying to sell Islam - I am not buying either, they are the same!
Dangerous!

  • 40.
  • At 07:58 PM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

Ref George Dutton #33

Know enough for purposes of debate my dear socialist sausage :)

You miss/ignore the point (intentional/accident)

I ask because working with several Scottish colleagues (who actually live there) who hold different political viewpoints, but who collectively informed me of the open joke, that of the Scottish Conservative tactical/protest vote to side with SNP against Labour, significantly boosts SNP current support.

Either way, lets await May 3rd election :)

btw - the clear socialist background of the one band man that is SNP (Alex Salmond) & bio of the rest, is fooling no-one .. Socialist National Party (despite window dressing)

..... FREEDOM !!!!!!! (snigger)

But that's the Left all over (either being evicted from squats in Amsterdam [1] or attempting to rebrand in EU period) ... dated failed mantra being served up as 'something else'

鈥 but who is interested in Socialism? .. dead duck / tormented turkey

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1]

  • 41.
  • At 09:19 PM on 07 Mar 2007,
  • wrote:

39. At 06:59 PM on 07 Mar 2007, Maurice - Northumberland wrote

"What Capitalist Principles"

Exactly they don`t have any.

Maurice wrote...

"Principles that Stagnates a country?
Principles that is happy to see jobs and Companies moving elsewhere?"

I think Maurice that even you must concede it was Thatcher that started the ball rolling big time with

"to see jobs and Companies moving elsewhere?"

It was Harold Macmillan that said "Thatcher gave away the family silver"

"Maurice wrote...

"I did the 70's and 80's"

While we are on the subject Maurice you will remember then it was Thatcher that burnt off a LOT of our North sea gas 20/25 years supply.She wanted to give tax cuts to get elected again.Many begged her not to do it at the time but she done it.The Norwegians of course spent money on saving there`s and now sell it to us at a hugh profit.We are now paying the price.


This post is closed to new comments.

The 大象传媒 is not responsible for the content of external internet sites