大象传媒

The former colonel is just speaking his mind.
Cops don't choose to roll down steps, they get pushed or dragged.
Black people often use racism as an institutional lever.
Its available when others perhaps are not.
In these two cases it is working against two obviously blameless individuals to the detriment of society i.e. alienating the majority.

A question I never hear asked is
"Why is there never any such problems with the Oriental Races in Britain"
They seem to have had no problem adapting to the British way of life, humour, values, culture or anything else. The fact is they join in with us all in everything, including taking the 'Michael' out of us in the right way.
Never have I heard any demanding Political representation this that or the other, or any special anything.
I suggest the Afro and the Indian sub Continent peoples learn from these people.
A people who in my mind have earned respect - and get it justifiably, not because they have different physical features, but because the fit in.

As for D. Cameron - he has shown himself to be a total naive idiot.
And if he or anyother PC pratt wants to discuss it, feel free and be my guest.

The most frightening thing about this row is not what Patrick Mercer said, but that David Cameron would have someone like Desmond Swayne as his Parliamentary Aide, and that the Conservative Party would put him up in a Newsnight interview. Kirsty Wark ripped him to pieces, and he came across as a staring-eyed nutter. Oh dear - it sets the clock back months.

I have to admit that this programme has reminded me how sensationalist the 大象传媒 can be in it's reporting.

As mentioned above, the issue here is not race but individualism.

We all differ in one way or another; ginger, black, fat, skinny, spotty....the list could go on. Yes these things get picked on, I have ridiculously skinny legs and spent my life being called sparrow-legs (feel free to snigger) but so what?! Black people get called black because they are. Fat people get called fat because they are. I got called sparrow-legs because, to be honest, they are quite ridiculously skinny. So * what?! I never started court cases or whinged on national TV about people discriminating against me.

We're all different and we should rejoice in that. To mention it is not necessarily to demean.

He did not condone racism he was indicating what Army life is like - which we already know - but we cannot talk about anything now without the racist card being thrown in - honest, sensible debate is stifled. It is just too sad.

this will backfire on the tories badly. obviously trying to pander to the pc crew. there is no racism in anything said in this case, and cameron is creating an issue that creates racism through winding up moderates. the media are just as bad, an example being the big brother case, that time stupidity and ignorance not racism, as accepted by the 'victim' in that case. i personally am a marginal voter, and cameron has just lost my vote. we need a government that will reverse this pc disaster.

Until today I'd never heard of Patrick Mercer. It seems to me that all he did was recount some things which he saw and heard whilst serving in the army some years ago.

His expressed opinion of the qualities of some black soldiers does not sit well with today's PC attitudes. However there are lazy and incompetent people in all walks of life, probably of all skin colours.

With regard to the remarks Mr Mercer says he heard on the assault course, David Cameron would do well to remember that outside the sanitised atmosphere of Westminster with the bullet proof cars and police escorts, the ordinary people of this country do not all love one another. Foul and abusive language is used and people mock their fellow human beings for their physical characteristics, accents, football shirts, disabilities, and many other things. This won't be stopped by Mr Cameron or anyone else cleaning house. It's called life. All politicians please take a reality check.

On Newsnight the Tory spokesman implied that it was OK for soldiers to be called 'ginger bastards' but not 'black bastards'. He criticised Mercer for giving equity to the two remarks. All my family have ginger hair and are disgusted that all sorts of groups of people who are considered different in some respect are given special consideration, but 'anti-ginger' comments are treated as a joke and we are expected to just accept them. All of my children have had to put up with totally unprovoked remarks at school and on the street.
We can no more change our natural appearance than any any other group. many are now protected by law or the regime of political correctness at least, Mr Tory Spokesman, give us the same consideration or keep your mouth shut

post at 1,2 and 3,could not have said it better myself, i am in total agreement with your posts.The"ginger bd" comment from the recently sacked tory MP Patrick Mercer brought back some bad memories though(strawberry blond and thinning).
wheres my news report,eh?...
gingers unite and get a lawyer to fight for your rights,kerching拢拢拢拢拢拢
Tory MP Mercer told it as it really is,and gets the sack for telling the truth,oh dear,another nail in the coffin,of having an opinion based on the real world view,and not the brain washed Political correct world view.
"right on" dave cameron has dropped another ball with this sacking.

#7
Thanks to the 大象传媒 people running this site - honest open debate is taking place!
Some may not like it - but it is reality.

What utter and undiluted bilge.
Yet another example of the total misapplication of three words that have become progressively more abused and drained of their literal definitions since 1997.
Cameron should invest in a proper dictionary, such as the New International Comprehensive Websters Dictionary, then read and fully digest the correct definitions of 'race', 'racism' and 'racist'. This applies equally to The Guardian and the 大象传媒. If they did then we might get somewhere.
Race is a collective noun relating to the identification within the human species of sub-populations whose members share with one another a greater degree of common inheritance than they share with people from other sub-populations.
As the primary application of the concept of race is to sub-populations and 'race' is thus a term applied to groups,then as far as individuals are concerned it applies to membership within a group and NOT to aspects of appearance such as skin colour, epicanthic fold, cephalic index

we all seem to have the same opinion, more or less, that Patrick Mercer was stating what he believed to be some truths about army life.

... a terrible wrong appears to have been done by newspapers and others in promulgating the lie that Mercer said something he clearly did not.

We are being manipulated. Can nothing at all be done about this?

I am very curious why Newsnight presented two statements by Mr. Mercer, yet discussed solely the first, much less offensive statement.

The first statement regarding the use of derogatory terms to push people to their limits, be they black, ginger, or fat, most obviously works, and if all parties involved can at the end of the day say 'That was good', I do not see what is wrong. (Also obvious is the fact these same phrases can be used as an attack; when such phrases can be shown to be meant as offensive, and are taken thus, appropriate action should be taken.)

I find Mr. Mercer's second statement, that many blacks are lazy and use claims of racism as an excuse, to be entirely inappropriate. To claim this for a particular case is one thing, but to make the claim generally is offensive to the point that I think Mr. Cameron was correct in dismissing Mr. Mercer.

May I ask why Newsnight, after presenting the two statements, chose the ignore the second entirely?

I feel deeply sorry for Patrick Mercer. Our county is going the same way as Germany went in the thirties. The state rules everything, every one of our actions and thoughts.
Wake up England before we too, have concentration camps. Lets not joke about a nanny state,its more insidious than that.
Wake up "before the bell tolls for thee"

Kirsty Wark was interviewing Desmond Swayne, MP on the matter of David Cameron's action following frank comments from Patrick Mercer when she asked Swayne if he could see either Michael Howard or William Hague succumbing to a knee-jerk reaction ? I refer her back to events of Easter week in 2005 when Michael Howard forced out of Parliament his spokesman on financial policies. Clearly the need to be seen as decisive is felt by aspiring Prime Ministers to be closer to electors' hearts than is the capacity for calm deliberation.

Kirsty Wark was interviewing Desmond Swayne, MP when she asked if he could see either Michael Howard or William Hague giving a knee jerk reaction to frank, but awkward comments by one of their leading spokesmen. We have only to go back to events of Easter week in 2005 when Michael Howard forced his spokesman on financial policies out of office and out of Parliament. Clearly two aspirants for Leadership of the nation have judged that decisiveness has greater appeal to electors than a capacity for calm deliberation.

Owing to copyright reasons i am unable to post a response to this report.

if you say the length of the missing bit then one can skip forward on the time bar?

if the copyright owner had a bit of vision they could have a link where we put 10p into the machine and so watch it?

nearly a full Newsnight house today. Multiculturalism, phones that pickpocket, the universal sisterhood being beaten down by the mad men. Ambridge should up in arms. Time to go down to the Goose and Duck with the dog while the little woman does the ironing. 'C'mon Ginger walkies.

Come on Newsnight own up - did I touch a nerve? Why didn't you print my concluding part of post 14 last night on the vital need for a complete understanding of, and total adherence to, the literally correct definitions of race, racism, racist and racialism?
This is the second time on the same subject that it haa happened and your failure to do so speaks volumes.

It鈥檚 really depressing to hear the same old rubbish: 鈥淚 said 鈥渂lack bastard鈥� to a black soldier, but I鈥檓 not racist鈥�; 鈥淚 beat up (another) black person (and I鈥檓 a cop), but I鈥檓 not racist鈥�; 鈥淚 said to her 鈥渨hy don鈥檛 you just f*** off home鈥�, but I鈥檓 not a racist鈥�. The only reason some white people don鈥檛 want to be accused of being racist, is so that they can continue being racist and get away with it.

The other load of nonsense spouted ad infinitum, is that 鈥渨e鈥檙e not allowed to debate these issues鈥� or 鈥渨e should be able to debate these issues openly鈥�. How much more debate do these people want? The race issue is debated endlessly, week in week out. Let鈥檚 just be clear about it: if you are abusive to another person because of their race or by using racist language, then you are a racist. It鈥檚 quite simple really, so why don鈥檛 people hold their hands up and admit it? Because of the reason given above: they want to continue to indulge in this cruel, impolite, insensitive, demoralising and hurtful behaviour with impunity.

The sad thing is, they always find an Uncle Tom who thinks it鈥檚 okay to be racially abused, which only serves to negate the anti-racism case. I don鈥檛 know why any black or Asian person with an ounce of pride would put their lives on the line for this country, only to be insulted by a senior army official. What an insult to Johnson Beharry, VC, and the many ethnic minority soldiers currently serving and dying for this country.

People who agree with this dreadful Patrick Mercer would love to keep black people 鈥渋n their place鈥�, and abusive language is one way to do it. I wonder if anyone would consider it acceptable to say, 鈥測ou Jewish bastard鈥� or 鈥測ou bloody poof鈥�. Discrimination of any kind shouldn鈥檛 be acceptable anywhere in a civilised society. I think use of this sort of language makes it easier for armies to invade countries with dark-skinned people and behave like they have no respect for the natives鈥� lives, as is happening currently in Iraq.

george dutton @ 15
Your links brought me to a few interesting pages.My original voting habits found myself voting Tory albeit "on the quiet" as i am working class and always got stick from my hard faced socialist buddies and was treated as a traitor of my working class roots.I have not voted since thatcher era due to finding that the Tories have stuttered since the poll tax fiasco and are now just a weak version of the labour party,though they have some MPs of note.Ihave,like many in this country found my self with no party in which to support that articulates my concerns ect.Your links gave reports from some pages,one of which was from 2001,that states that some Tories have links to the BNP.Well some right wingers will go a bit further right and sit comfortably with the far right.Extreamism is not confined to the far right as history can tell us that socialism can have comrades of dubious note.Stalin was a busy socialist,that busy he disposed of some 35 million,funny how socialist by pass that nugget of historical importance but,adhere to the socialist ideology which created that genocide,the kids don't get taught that in school do they.Can i suggest Animal farm by Orwell as a good read or the animated film to enlighten you to socialism.The maxim that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely can be seen played out today with the labour party,to MP Diane Abbots stance on the labour parties egalitarian view point,do as i say but not nessesarily what i do(in reference to her childs private education).Politics is like physics,if a force such as ultra left wing ideology is pushing hard in one direction,an opposite and equal force will resist.the free reign of the political ultra left,certainly in the last 10 years have created the"monster"of extreme right wing reaction in the guise of the BNP,so paradoxically the fears of the left are their own doing and is manifesting itself albeit slowly,but surely,and radical politics is a real possibility in this country.three cheers for the socialist,how does that song go.we'll keep the red flag flying here,I DONT THINK SO.....
To preempt any possible response,that i maybe a swiveled eyed BNP member or active supporter,sorry to disappoint but i am not,but i do recognise their appeal considering the mess this country is in. don't take that wrong.

Dear Anna,

You are quite right that in a perfect world, abusive or derogatory language would be absent. However we do not live in a perfect world. Whatever you do you will not persuade everyone to like everyone else.

Patrick Mercer did not insult Johnson Beharry. Indeed Mr Mercer's own former RSM went on television yesterday and said he didn't believe that he (Mercer) was a racist. I for one am not totally clear what you mean by an "Uncle Tom." Are you implying that the RSM is one?

Your comment about the war in Iraq is not relevant in this context as rank and file soldiers do as they are ordered without the luxury of debating the issue beforehand.

I am not interested in replying to this debate. Last time my reply touched on a subject which could probably be construed as possibly indirectly loosely racist, and possibly a bit anti-media to boot, it was blocked as it doubtless wasn't PC enough. It's a waste of time, No. 24, as it seems like part of your message No.14 got the same treatment.

'when you watch newsnight you feel you are getting something with substance' [quote from main page]

yes but what kind of substance?

I see no posts on the NI poll. Am I the only one who cares about the NI MPs getting paid for doing nothing all this time? There was a deadline in November 06 beyond which the NI MPs would not get paid if they didn't get on with power-sharing in NI, so said Peter Hain at the time. I presume that deadline was not adhered to?

Mr Wallace (apropos #26),

a delightful posting, as ever (almost as delightful as #17 on 26 Feb where, to my mind, you skirt dangerously close to the incitement to racial violence, but quickly recover by claiming it as some form of 'satire').

You may not be a swivel-eyed member or *active* supporter of the BNP, but I think we can all see where your strong sympathies lie. How long before you sign up? How long before the 'angry sentiments' of a couple of weeks ago stop being 'satirical' and actually involve you participating in some sort of race-hate crime?

Still, when you get to court, you'll be able to say that it wasn't your fault - that if that damned Diane Abbott hadn't held double-standards, you might never have reached this point. Or if we hadn't had a Labour government, you'd never have been driven to the extremes you had, because you disagree (so violently) with the way they govern the country, and so in a sense they are responsible. Or that such right-wing extremism is OK because, well, some communists in Russia killed a whole load of people a few decades ago.

Good luck with that!

Keith

Ref Anna #25

In most left wing campaigns The Anti-Racism = The Anti-Fascist = STOP THE 鈥�. campaigns = "anyone who disagrees with our mantra is outed as a racist"

We have a problem with race & culture in this country & Europe look to France, Denmark & Holland etc.

These problems have been amplified by the increasing tide of RIGHT, PC & MULTICULTURALISM 鈥� which is finally on the wane but still uncomfortably high.

The TRUTH of the matter is the attempts to control the lexicon of debate, it boundaries & near 'fascist' like blitzkrieg response from leftwing 'thought police' have not changed things.

BIGOTRY:

A consequence of human behaviour, interactions with others, the nurture/nature arguments & successive generations overlapping each other in society 鈥�.. results in less than desirable behaviour, attitudes & views amongst people. Its repeatable, not confined to the shores of this country nor to white middle class males 鈥�.. its called HUMAN NATURE 鈥� & exist in all sexes, ages, creeds, colours & COMMUNITIES.

The Usual Suspects, who still after the proven failing of multiculturalism, are trying to shore it up by 'outing' again any people in debate about race & culture with the open ended denouncement of racist, is a bigoted statement in itself.

The Left Wing, the ultra liberals & liberal left et al 鈥� make great play of their favourite groups for attack:

- tories
- right wing
- capitalism
- monarchy
- america
- class war

Their reliance & prejudice & stereotyping of the above is BIGOTRY & is just as offensive & limiting as their attempts to rein in any discussion about race & culture, into a racist 'outing'

BRITISH PROBLEMS:

British society, made of both ethnic communities & mainstream, has its fair share of problems.

Since 1960's increasingly two ethnic communities (race/religion) have steadily got worse.

- The inherent problems within Britain's Black communities remain *

- The inherent problems within Britain's Islamic communities remain *

* which is more to do with their inherent problems based on culture, rather then how our mainstream interacts with them.

The attempt to control & fix the debate & the language used by the Left has not irradiated these problems in these communities. Especially when negative practices reign unchallenged within such communities, whist Left attempts to exclusively brand & associate failings of such communities as a mainstream responsibility.

But the Left in this country have agenda, the race card is important to them, especially the social, political & economic 'reparations' viewpoint [1]

They have the responsibility of enabling negative behaviour to continue virtually unchallenged, denying the scope & causes of the problem, whilst attributing the failing to mainstream society.

The Left put themselves forward as having ideas about society, communities & relationships 鈥� but they failed 鈥� stand down 鈥� you are being ignored ... but rightly blamed :)

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1]

Part 1of2

Ref Anna #25

In most left wing campaigns The Anti-Racism = The Anti-Fascist = STOP THE 鈥�. campaigns = "anyone who disagrees with our mantra is outed as a racist"

We have a problem with race & culture in this country & Europe look to France, Denmark & Holland etc.

These problems have been amplified by the increasing tide of RIGHT, PC & MULTICULTURALISM 鈥� which is finally on the wane but still uncomfortably high.

The TRUTH of the matter is the attempts to control the lexicon of debate, it boundaries & near 'fascist' like blitzkrieg response from leftwing 'thought police' have not changed things.

BIGOTRY:

A consequence of human behaviour, interactions with others, the nurture/nature arguments & successive generations overlapping each other in society 鈥�.. results in less than desirable behaviour, attitudes & views amongst people. Its repeatable, not confined to the shores of this country nor to white middle class males 鈥�.. its called HUMAN NATURE 鈥� & exist in all sexes, ages, creeds, colours & COMMUNITIES.

The Usual Suspects, who still after the proven failing of multiculturalism, are trying to shore it up by 'outing' again any people in debate about race & culture with the open ended denouncement of racist, is a bigoted statement in itself.

The Left Wing, the ultra liberals & liberal left et al 鈥� make great play of their favourite groups for attack:

- tories
- right wing
- capitalism
- monarchy
- america
- class war

Their reliance & prejudice & stereotyping of the above is BIGOTRY & is just as offensive & limiting as their attempts to rein in any discussion about race & culture, into a racist 'outing'

vikingar

Part 2of2

Ref Anna #25

BRITISH PROBLEMS:

British society, made of both ethnic communities & mainstream, has its fair share of problems.

Since 1960's increasingly two ethnic communities (race/religion) have notably & steadily got worse, a threat to themselves & wider society, by any measure:

- Unchallenged inherent problems within Britain's Islamic communities remain *

- Unchallenged inherent problems within Britain's Black communities remain *

* which is more to do with their inherent problems based on culture, rather then how exclusively mainstream interacts with them.

The attempt to control & fix the debate & the language used by the Left has not irradiated these problems in these communities. Especially when negative practices reign unchallenged within such communities, whist Left attempts to exclusively brand & associate failings of such communities as an EXCLUSIVE mainstream responsibility.

But the Left in this country have agenda, the race card is important to them, especially in association to post Empire & the social, political & economic 'reparations' arguments [1]

The Left have the clear responsibility of enabling negative behaviour to continue virtually unchallenged, denying the scope & causes of the problem, whilst attributing the failing EXCLUSIVELY to mainstream society.

The Left put themselves forward as having ideas & SOLUTIONS about society, communities & relationships 鈥� but they failed 鈥� stand down 鈥� you are being ignored ... but rightly blamed :)

The Left has long since joined those within Britain's failing communities * who remain in denial to main cause of the problem ... themselves & any number of excuses.

* whilst a disitnct minority have successfully integrated, assimilated themselves & families (welcome)

vikingar

SOURCES:

[1]

#29 - You advising people to tell it as it is/was is a bit rich, it is you young man who should be looking at what was by whom and what political position they had.
Instead of being in denial.

Stalin a Fascist of course he was, he was a Communist/Socialist, it's the natural progession, also experiernced by Hitler.
Socialism = Communism = Fascism = Dictorship. That is the way it goes and always has.
so I suggest it is you who needs to get real.

Racialism as opposed to rac(ism) stemmed from the practice and adherence to the theory that human races (and there are a hell of a number) have certain characteristics that unalterably mould their cultures.

From this arose the belief that ones 'own' Race had a right to rule less 'advanced' Races and justified in asserting this right by force. Just one example of many being Adolph Hitler and his henchmen.

Racism on the other hand is defined as an 'irrational' belief or advocacy that a 'Race' is superior to another Race. The definition also includes the words 'racial hatred'.

Straightforward? Not really - this is where it becomes sticky because the careful qualification.

Leaving that qualification aside, one indisputable fact is that as Race is a collective noun, an individual cannot possibly constitute a 'Race',

If a Frenchman for example believed, irrationally or otherwise, that in terms of their indigenous populations the Poles were a superior Race to the Rumanians and that the Rumanians were a superior Race to the Swedes, that the Swedes were a superior Race to the Danes, the Danes were a superior Race to the Germans and so on - he would jointly, severally and technically fulfil the definition of racism and qualify as being racist. Hang on - Racial hatred in this instance hasn't even come into what is only after all the Frenchman's 'irrational' opinion and is therefore totally irrelevant.
So it doesn't follow that Racism and racial hatred go hand in hand in order to fulfil the definition.
Nor, for obvious reasons, does skin colour enter the equation, yet the 'irrational' belief is still 'racist'!

Without Race there could be no such thing as racism, but Race there is and the entire planet is stuck with the problems it brings. Only when people stop misapplying the words Racism, racist, xenophobe etc., and stick to their strictly literal definitions will things improve.

The primary theme of this post is that a. The Race not the individual in question has to be identified. b. Skin colour is not Race as per the example above and c. No individual constitutes a Race even if that individual is hated with a passion; as I've mentioned before.

Ref George Dutton #37

btw

Q. which successful socialist state do you admire George? *

* or put it another way, is there one or is it all aspirational theory, unworkable in reality

vikingar

Re 38 - 4th paragraph omission.
Should read....careful qualification of the words 'irrational' and 'superior' needs to be taken into account.

Ref George Dutton #40

I think the answer is there is not a working macro version of state socialism & unlikely to be one *

* I would argue primarily because of human nature & a failure/denial to acknowledge such by those with minority group support but with aspirations too change the majority & society

George Dutton #40 - "If we all said I would die for a cause but not kill for a cause it might just be a start"

Christian societies in Europe (its mistakes & success's) has proved the strength & limits of such sacrifice throughout history.

I do not believe current British Society is willing to sacrifice their lives, values or society for certain 'causes' **

** esp the sort with RIGHT ON & PC motives behind other agenda for universal societual change promoted by certain political pressure groups, non representative of mainstream

Until such minority groups acknowledge such limits exist & only a finite steps can be made, rather than infinie number of great leaps, they will forever fail to build upon reasonable gains made.

Mainstream society (warts & all) enable alternative communities, groups & lifestyles to exist (whether from standpoint of stability, accomodation, tolerance, affordability).

The same cannot be said of such alternatives, whose mantra, scaliabitly and/or tolerances would not allow others not to conform to anything but a strict interpreation of their values.

George Dutton #40 - "But vikingar we have got to try for something better"

I would argue, in a nut shell, anyone can try to change aspects of the world they don鈥檛 like 鈥� but with 鈥�. REALISM 鈥� not EXTREMISM * as to what can be achieved & what the mainstream will tolerate, adhere too & fund (given they will have the greatest journey to make)

*** of objective or method

vikingar

keith @32 i work crazy hours so forgive my late reply,as reply i must.
you wrote=(in part)
"You may not be a swivel-eyed member or *active* supporter of the BNP, but I think we can all see where your strong sympathies lie. How long before you sign up? How long before the 'angry sentiments' of a couple of weeks ago stop being 'satirical' and actually involve you participating in some sort of race-hate crime?

Still, when you get to court, you'll be able to say that it wasn't your fault - that if that damned Diane Abbott hadn't held double-standards, you might never have reached this point".

Well keith is this really the way you respond to anyone who questions the political lefts ideology,my strong sympathies lie,yes to the right,just not the present Tory party and i am surprised you did not mention that i probably read the daily mail,and yes, guess what,i do. oh and yes my name is Mr wallace.its sad but not surprising that you revert to the typical hard left stereotype,ie, every one who questions your beliefs,you quickly throw the charge of"you bigot,you racist",ectera.dont you see the harm in that.Resonable concerns that a great many have is stifled.I hate to pop that bubble that you are somehow correct in your assumption of where my sympathies lie,but the growth in the bnp is a major concern to me as well,how, you may well ask?well let me tell you.History is a great indicator for how societies can implode.Your not stupid(misguided maybe,brainwashed most certainly))so no history lesson needed here,but if a political ideology gets to run and run with no opposition from its excesses(ie from political correctness to the absurd positive discrimination)well i hope you see my point.I charge the political left with running rampant with its mismanagement of this country and putting the wellbeing of its inhabitants at risk and the natural response to the lefts excesses are that it has enabled a small bunch of racist to be potentially,a political force that can only do more damage,with social unrest and chaos,will surely follow,and all because the political left with supporters such as yourself ignored our pleas for sensible administration.Dont you see,please tell me you see that the birth of the far right nasty sister was because the nasty lefty brother was evil as well.I stick to my original comment that i understand the appeal of the bnp,that wont go away,sorry,does not mean i will vote for them unless it becomes a protest vote,who else have i got to represent my political believes.blair?Cameron?Ming,well mings a nice chap and i am glad the local liberal democrats are my local councilors but only because they do good work within the community but never will they run this country,and non of the above really address my concerns.my crime is having an opinion,an opinion that does not fit with you view,its a pity you jumped to conclusions,but its the usual response that is to be expected.
A large chunk of me is still in the mould of an idealist,though reality has chipped away at it,blinkers off keith and join me in the reality party,yeah thats got a ring to it,THE REALITY PARTY,free from indoctrination,the flyers are already printed,lets do some canvassing and get this off the ground..keith...keith..K..E..I..T..H. where are you going???????.
news just in=Ian Paisley and the other fella whos name escapes me are going to work together in the Irish parliment.come on keith,if Paisley and the other fella can work together,we can as well.please help me with my vision,the good and the decent people are calling to be saved from the tyranny that blights their lives.
got to go,star treks on(the original with James T Kirk),and no keith,am not an anorak trekkie.so don't be jumping up and down thinking you have me worked out.Where no MAN has gone before,or should that be"where no ONE has gone before"the P.C version.

oh yeah,it was Gerry Adams

George - you have avoided every question put to you by anyone!
Why?
Does this explain it?
"Not a Socialist at 20 no Heart, still a Socialist at 30 No Brain"!

You and your fellow travellers prove it holds true.
e.g. J. Prescott (champagne Socialist) add D. Skinner just 2 of the not so funny Clowns of the Socialist Class, making Britain the International joke it has become!

Patrick Mercer has been made a PC. scapegoat over this affair.
Fortunately he has a lot os support from the grassroot Tories.
I think he will be back when the Tories come to their senses and get a real Tory as leader.

Over dinner some nights ago I sat watching the news on TV with a friend whom was until then a significant donor to the Conservative party. This news sealed the final nail in the coffin for them regarding their subscription and support.

Met with their anger (on their birthday I might add) I pointed out that these days, "you can basically vote Labour, Labour or Labour" - as the leading parties are virtual carbon copies of oneanother. Scandals, sleaze, severely misguided policies, spin, spin and more spin, empty promises... need I go on?

My quoted words have been passed to Mr Mercer via my friend while writing their own words of support - and my friend, the significant donor whom has since been badgered by a grovelling Tori party to reconsider, has cancelled their subscription and given up on the party after many, many years of majorly significant support, monetary and other.

BNP here we come. Someone has to stand up for this country of ours and turn it round from its inexorable decline caused by the previous and current vile politics in play from present government and the shadow. We CANNOT let it carry on. We live in a REAL world and need a REAL government!

Yours disgraciously aggreived,

Anon.

Plastic fantastic politicians moulded by a plastic fantastic society.

Tell the truth and be branded incompetent, conceal the truth and your a fraudster.

Politicians! They're all the same!

I wonder why.