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Talk about Newsnight

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Friday, 13 April, 2007

  • Newsnight
  • 13 Apr 07, 06:49 PM

calais-2005203.jpgSangatte Two? During the course of 2002 ten thousand illegal immigrants found their way across the channel to Kent. It was a number that fell dramatically - by 88% - once the French closed down the asylum centre at Sangatte. Now there is talk of broken promises and a repeat performance of that level of clandestine immigration. French authorities have given the go ahead for a welfare centre in Calais to reopen. Is this a pragmatic response to a problem that hasn't completely gone away?

Plus: A World Bank chief scandal; new Russian revolutionaries; and the future of nuclear energy.

Comment onhere.

Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 07:43 PM on 13 Apr 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

How do you know the figures of 10,000 or the drop of 88%?

Let's get all into reality, Britain is seen as the European off-shore dump, and the Government are content for it to be so - all those who get here by any means and the amnesty which will inevitably follow represent votes to the Party (Government) who let them in and let them stay!

Not incompetence, not an oversight, not a failure, but an agenda which has more evidence to support such an accusation than can contradict it!

e.g. Didn't Jack Straw send buses to collect the last lot up from Sangatte?
e.g. Didn't Jack Straw allow those involved in the Afghan hijacking to stay?
e.g. Is the Government sending aircraft to the Congo to collect some 500 persons per year?
etc. etc.
Mass immigration from the 3rd world on a scale never before seen or experienced over the last few years - and it is set to continue.
Plus vast numbers from all the EU countries.
If anyone still thinks that this is Great Britain for the British run by the British, think again.
Though the Government uses on of their excuses/objectives for being in Iraq 'an Iraq for the Iraqi run by the Iraqi'. It is a shame those sentiments were not being applied to Britain.

  • 2.
  • At 09:36 PM on 13 Apr 2007,
  • Maurice expanded wrote:

People just don't like those who are different.
Its animal cruelty to inflict rapid immigration on populations.
Why for example do I still meet 3rd or 4th generation black people who consider their skin to be dirty.
I resent having to put up with their hostility because some upper middle class factory owner wanted to keep an inefficient process running.

  • 3.
  • At 10:20 PM on 13 Apr 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

#2 -
Please your own words in your own name!

  • 4.
  • At 10:42 PM on 13 Apr 2007,
  • Stephen wrote:

When the Sangatte centre was closed the UK took those refugees who were there in a deal to close it, if the French re-open the centre then those refugees should be sent back.

  • 5.
  • At 10:49 PM on 13 Apr 2007,
  • linda crisp wrote:

We do not have the space in this country to continue to take any immigrants legal or illegal.Stop it now. Employment will be affected by this in the future. Our services are collapsing and our wealthy are leaving our country. This will be the downfall of Britain.
It certainly heralds the end of the welfare state. Those that can pay are fed up with paying for everybody else. Those that can pay, wont, they will leave.

  • 6.
  • At 11:55 PM on 13 Apr 2007,
  • Gordon wrote:

Its good to see a positive feature about the bright future of nuclear power, what a pity its not happening here. It would appear that India is doing more about CO2 induced climate change than it is given credit for. Perhaps there would be more of a chance of nuclear power expansion in the UK if the media were not so influenced by the eco-fascists. A report out on 3rd April claimed that the long term adverse health effects of radiation from Chernobyl and the atom bombs on Japan were no worse than passive smoking or general air pollution. This was buried at the end of a daytime News 24 when everybody switched channel to avoid the sport again. It was not featured in any of the general TV Muppet news, even Channel 4 avoided it. Its still on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ web site though.

If we are to survive as a civilised industrialised nation it is imperative that we invest in nuclear power, the alternative is the new dark age Winston Churchill foresaw. Why waste money subsidising wind farms when its obvious that " the market " will not invest in subsidy free nuclear if it can parasite on wind farm subsidy. Using fuel from Russian bombs sounds like turning swords into ploughshares and the extra waste problem is a non issue if we already have loads to dispose of anyway.

  • 7.
  • At 12:42 AM on 14 Apr 2007,
  • Maurice nes pas wrote:

#1 whats in a name?
Sorry, if you got confused Maurice

  • 8.
  • At 09:23 AM on 14 Apr 2007,
  • Prof. Charles Hughes FREng wrote:

Thank you for the excellent piece on nuclear power generation.
Virtually all the energy we use has come from the Sun, although the origin of geothermal energy and the kinetic energy arising from planetary and salellite motion is debatable. The only exception is the derivation of energy from matter - nuclear fission and fusion. We, the human species can supply the increasing needs of an expanding population only by making full use of developed fission generators and by putting sufficient energy into fusion projects such as ITER.
The programme rightly the efforts of the US and other nations while many of our politicians seek popular acclaim by running down all things nuclear. Unless they change their minds quickly, it may be too late.

  • 9.
  • At 04:14 PM on 14 Apr 2007,
  • robert wrote:

The bbc along with new labour,guardian,etc,has been cheerleaders these past ten years for this unfolding tragedy being inflicted on the 69 million souls and rising to numbers of which the only people who have any control over proudly state they do not have a clue.It is only a matter of time before the mass housebuilding Nu-Lab is inflicting on the enviroment to house these millions from evry corner of the globe run out of basic commodities such as water supply,gas,electric,etc.I am at a loss to how the Left wing dogmatists can see this is in anyones intrest. I assume some are genuine Idealists,but surely they can see the outcome to this madness can only be they are responsible for evil.

  • 10.
  • At 07:00 PM on 14 Apr 2007,
  • csharp wrote:

is the call for a russian revolution a story or a suicide note?

are the French evil for feeding young fit men of fighting age who want to come to britain? Or are they just having a laugh? Winding up les pommes ?

Straussian World Bank Chief. Three wheels off his wagon but he keeps rolling along?

Investors radiate warm glow as the price of nuclear fuel rockets?

  • 11.
  • At 10:46 PM on 14 Apr 2007,
  • June Gibson wrote:

People appear to have forgotten that Blunkett declared an amnesty for umpteen thousands of illegals. I expect by now they have cosily settled in with their own kind, having forged all necessary papers, found work, drive cars, get NHS treatment (hospitals never check)go in prison (again no checking). Do you think illegal immigrants offer to pay CT? We know that passports are "disappearing" so it's only a step for some to buy those,then to get the rest of the family into U.K. with medical treatment for all. How could ID cards or isometric passports assist in stopping the influx of illegals immigrants? Not at all. Nobody in local government or the NHS expects spoken English from users, eagerly producing as they do appropriate interpreters or leaflets in many tongues. My local borough offers interpreters on the phone for PCN payments! Perhaps another amnesty for illegal immigrants will come about when the U.K. is 'swamped' yet again. Blunkett apologised for using that word. I don't.

  • 12.
  • At 06:40 PM on 15 Apr 2007,
  • Frank Hudson wrote:

Emily Maitlis' suggestion that as the Tories are in favour of 'controlled' immigration (whatever that might entail) wouldn't it be better to let these people (illegal immigrants) in so that their identities would be known; simply beggars belief!
The much used phrase of 'which Planet is she on' must have been coined with her in mind.
How in the name of all that's sane can you have controlled illegal immigration?

  • 13.
  • At 02:38 AM on 16 Apr 2007,
  • Mark wrote:

France is Britain's EU "partner." Can you imagine what they'd do if they DIDN'T like you? What a union. What should Britain's response be? Were I king...I'd blow up the tunnel and write it off as another Euro-failure. Let's see how many of those immis get in when they have to swim for it.

  • 14.
  • At 10:22 AM on 16 Apr 2007,
  • Maurice - Northumberland wrote:

#1 continued:-

Now for that amnesty for illegals!

  • 15.
  • At 02:27 PM on 16 Apr 2007,
  • Adrienne wrote:

"• The population of London is projected to increase by 789,000 to 8.3 million by 2026, an increase of 10.5 per cent.

• Ninety-nine per cent of this population increase is expected to be from BAME ethnic groups as a result of the younger age structure of this population. However, this disguises the significant migrant churn of all ethnic groups that takes place in the capital.

• The White population is projected to increase by 0.2 per cent between 2006 and 2026, the Black Caribbean ethnic group is projected to increase by ten per cent."

GLA 2005 Round:
DMAG Briefing 2006/22
November 2006
Interim Ethnic Group Population Projections

Regardless of whether these are eccurate projections or not, the differential is worth noting.

Consider projected population growth between 2001 and 2031 for Tower Hamlets (~70%), Newham and Barking & Dagenham (each ~45%) Hackney, Islington, Lambeth and Southwark (between ~20-35%) and compare with west London authorities like Richmond upon Thames (under 5%).

Also bear in mind differential educability (as reflected in DfES Key Stage SAT results for each of the 16+1 ethnic groups, and consider how initiatives which are designed to raise literacy and numeracy levels are actually faring based on the published quantitative evidence rather than qualitative rhetoric.

Then see this across the pond:

And just to be clear again, this is not a racial (colour) or xenophobic issue, it's a matter of skills, educability and consequences.

Without wishing to trivialise 'anthropogenic global warming' and 'the war on terror' as threats to the west, doesn't this look like a more immediate and worrying problem?

  • 16.
  • At 06:26 PM on 16 Apr 2007,
  • Mark wrote:

If Segolene Royal wins the French election, you will have many more emigrees fleeing through that tunnel to Britain....most of them French.

What irony life holds. North Africans and Chinese desperate to leave their native land to get to places like France while Frenchman are desperate to flee to Britain while Brits flee to places like America. Not many people fleeing America that I know about, in fact...none. Where on earth would they go?

  • 17.
  • At 07:21 PM on 16 Apr 2007,
  • Frank Hudson wrote:

I'll try again!

Emily Maitlis' comments beggared belief when she suggested to the Conservative Party spokesman that as the Tories were in favour of controlled immigration, wouldn't it be far better to let 'these people'(illegal immigrants) in so that their identities would be known.

How, in the name of all that's sane, can you have controlled ILLEGAL immigration?

  • 18.
  • At 09:58 AM on 18 Apr 2007,
  • Adrienne wrote:

Liam Byrne's policy 'pamphlet' has been delayed until the end of the month it seems and it now seems clear that they're worried that their negligent and socially destructive political policies don't bode well for them at the polls.

The problem is, both main parties have lost all credibility where it comes to the reliability of official statistics, and both have been undermining the civil service through politicisation for decades in pursuit of the cheaper 'free-market'. Yet we're supposed to believe that they can reliably manage this serious demographic problem despite what we can see all about us with our own 'lying eyes'.

What's going to be done about all of those already here? How are our public sector staff (many of whom went into these services in the 70s and 80s believing they'd be serving *their* country and communities) supposed to cope? From their perspective teachers, doctors, nurses, police, prison and probation staff etc are deluged with the products of a sausage machine which just keeps dropping demanding aliens on their doorsteps. Public sector employees chose to serve *their* communities, yet this and previous governments have progressively broken up communities expecting public services to cope with the consequences.

What's the inevitable effect of hoards of aliens on community spirit? If what we are seeing is not the consequence of a de facto and de jure strategy (HR legislation and EU compliance) to undermine national and local community cohesion, I'd really like someone to show me what that *would* look like. It takes *time* to build cohesion, it doesn't take long to erode it.

When publishing their questionable figures (based on dubious IT systems which they have squandered billions of public money on without a thought to who has to use them and their skills), perhaps they could publish internal migration figures as well, showing the effects of uncontrolled immigration on flight *from* the invaded areas.

  • 19.
  • At 12:27 PM on 18 Apr 2007,
  • Adrienne wrote:

Welcome to 'Newspeak' Frank. It appears that the general public doesn't understand that sanity is just a legal concept.

We have doctors effectively 'aiding and abetting' kids under the age of consent to commit USI, and we have senior police officers recommending prescription of heroin on the NHS to.

But maybe they'll just trot out yet another law?

Prima facie this appears to be Newspeak for confusion and incompetence in our once dysfunctional (now split) Home Office. That being so, why the surprise at their bizarre talk of "managed illegal immigration"?

This sort of nonsense comes from the same types who talk of raising everyone's literacy and numeracy proficiency above average and I fear it's all a consequence of a) declining levels of literacy/numeracy and b) too many people going to university who really don't understand how ability is distributed and what words are really for.

But, if you share that view, don't express it too widely - they're very easily offended and appear to believe that because they've been to 'university', they must be very clever.

The sad fact is, they just know how to talk a lot without much grasp of what they're talking *about*.

That's why so many people are so depressed. They can't do much about these harridans (of both sexes) and they know that they have little competence beyond an ability to generate a never ending stream of unenforceable (by their ever weakened public sector) legislation.

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