Tuesday, 21st August, 2007
- 21 Aug 07, 04:29 PM
Politicians and the NHS
Politicians love to do battle over the NHS so is David Cameron right about hospital closures or is he wrong? Are a whole load about to close or not? The Conservatives have their list of the 29 at risk and David Cameron has been touring the country to offer them support BUT today a member of his shadow team apologised to his local hospital saying that it was wrong that it was on the list. Since then many Trusts and hospitals on the list have also denied they are under threat. The truth? We'll be trying to find out and testing both Labour and the Conservatives' claims.
NEETs
Here's a statistic the government wont like. 1.2 million 16-24 year olds are NEETs. In other words more than a million young people in the UK are " Not in Employment, Education or Training. " Jackie Long has been to Walsall to meet and hear from a number of people in this position. Should they be forced into national service? Forced to do community work? We'll be debating radical solutions to the problem
Amnesty Vs the Catholic church
This weekend in Mexico Amnesty International adopted a new aim to work to "support the decriminalisation of abortion" where a woman's health or human rights are in danger. As a result the Catholic church has asked followers to resign from Amnesty. The Bishop of East Anglia has done so after being a member for 31 years. He joins us on the programme to debate with Amnesty his decision.
A GameShow Education
It's India's newest reality TV show and over the weekend Arvind Aradhya won. The prize? A British education - a place on an engineering course at Warwick University to be precise. We'll be asking him whether he's ready for British student life.
Comments Post your comment
National Service should not be regarded as a radical solution, but an obvious and beneficial solution to the 1.2 million 16-24 year old NEETs (Not in Education, Employment or Training). At age 18 I had just started to progress in my career in Fleet Street when it was totally disrupted by 2 years National Service, with hardly any meaningful vacancies as the period had just been increased from 18 months. However, with hindsight it was a fantastic Rights of Passage experience that taught me discipline and teamwork, leading eventually to a more fulfilling lifestyle. Today's NEETs, with nothing constructive to absorb their energies and egos, National Service should be just what they need:and their parents and neighbours would also be grateful!
The emphasis should now be on 'service to the community' rather than on military training to become cannon fodder fighting illegal wars in other countries.
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Why is it that our elected representatives like to use the NHS as a political football? Now they are arguing over hospital closures whilst people are dying from Healthcare Associated Infections. It is a pity that they cannot stop trying to score points over the NHS and instead work collaboratively together to prevent the scourge of infections taking over our hospitals. Personally I would rather see clean hospitals safe for patients to use such as they have in the Netherlands rather than argue as to which hospitals stay open. Let鈥檚 get the hospitals we have clean and free from infections first and then worry about anything else.
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They should shut the lot down, get rid of the people scrounging from the general public and open as soon as possible up with honest decent caring people in charge, not the ones we have in now. Clean sweep get rid of the rubbish and start again. Clean the whole NHS up. The General public would be better served for their forced charges.
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How can anybody take this man Cameron serious, he has now become a liability to the Conservative Party with his wild inaccurate claims. Quite a few of the trust have strongly disputed his erroneous facts.
The North Bristol NHS Trust 鈥 Conservative claims that A&E services at Frenchay were under threat is absolute rubbish a new one is being built 5 miles away.
Oxford Radcliffe Hospitals NHS Trust鈥︹漬o threat鈥 to its A&E unit.
Sandwell and West Birmingham Hospitals NHS Trust鈥︹ no threat鈥 to the Accident and Emergency department or the Maternity unit at City Hospital in Birmingham.
The Shrewsbury & Telford Hospital NHS Trust鈥here is 鈥渘o threat鈥 to Maternity services at the Princess Royal Hospital in Telford.,
Other NHS trusts have also contradicted the Conservative leader鈥檚 claims. Plus the fact another hospital on the Tory list does not even have a Maternity or A&E facility.
This man Cameron lives in fantasy land
To make matters even worse, Conservative MP Henry Bellingham has found himself having to apologise unreservedly to staff at his local hospital in King's Lynn, which he said had been wrongly included on the list David Cameron had drawn up.
It is abundantly obvious that Cameron does not even consult the opinion or the facts from the local MP鈥檚.
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Testing nulabour dont make me sick
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RESPONSE TO No 3
THE MYTH OF PARTY POLITICS AND DEMOCRACY
Almost all politics in Britain is party politics. Hence almost all politicians are 鈥渂elongers鈥 who give their allegiance to some party or other. These belongers then repeat, ad nauseam, the mantra that 鈥減olitics must have parties鈥. In earlier times each party had a core dogma that was fixed 鈥 like a religion. Recently parties have taken to adjusting their core values to try to attract enough votes to win at election time. If a party has no fixed dogma, it follows that it has no identity. If it has no identity what is it about parties that brings advantage to governing a country?
Parties dilute democracy. They pre-select candidates according to party-requirements: loyalty to party, adherence to party message, obedience to party officers. These candidates, already 鈥渃ompromised鈥 are offered to the electorate at election time. In any debate or public utterance, a party politician must protect the party from attack and attack the other side as a priority, before attending to the needs of the electorate. Parties, like soap companies, advertise at great expense 鈥 with increasing negativity. The majority of each war chest (multiple millions) is simply matched and negated by opposing millions, while the disgraceful idea that votes may be bought, goes unnoticed. All of the foregoing detracts from democratic government.
It is my considered opinion that parties serve no useful function. Parties only lead to games, which, while fun for those who join in and play, make those who are left outside the windows to watch, all the more miserable. It is time to make Britons aware that they are all caught up in the myth of party politics and to look for a more democratic, cost-effective, honourable alternative.
In the General Election of 2005, I stood for election in Newbury under the banner: 鈥淪poil Party Games鈥. It was an experiment that cost me 拢500 and won me 86 votes.
The major parties were well known to the public whereas no media outlet could breathe a word of me until the election was declared. I then had just a few weeks to waken a slumbering electorate to their plight. I failed. Only if I can overcome the terror of the media in the face of electoral law, can I get over to our duped, nose-led voters, that there is a better way.
Just as a locality can choose a mayor, it should seek out (and weed out) its aspiring MPs on merit (integrity, competence, local street-cred) and vote one of them to Parliament.
At the beginning of a parliamentary term, the MPs should meet and shake themselves down into a government. If this is not possible then there is no hope for democracy. Individuals chosen for their competence as human beings, really should be able to create a viable governing body. Formation of cliques and power-blocks would be outlawed and, if discovered, met with dismissal and disgrace. This plan would avoid the horrors of 鈥減ower corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely鈥 so characteristic of those currently in 鈥渉igh office鈥 without any credentials - outside those of party hierarchical chicanery.
My story is a one man fight to expose the self serving charade of party politics in the interest of an end to delusional prime ministers, black hearted advisors, 鈥渙n message鈥 acolytes and 鈥渞osette stand鈥 MPs. All the 鈥渋nitiatives鈥 of government 鈥 tinkering with law, education, health, welfare etc 鈥 against the backcloth above - are doomed to fail, as indeed they do, until that cloth is woven to a different pattern entirely.
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Of course hospital managers are distancing themselves from a campaign organised by the leader of the opposition. There are two reasons for this:
The managers of the NHS don't dare contradict this Government by siding with the Conservatives. We are in such a centrally controlled state now that if they did they would not be employable.
and
Many of them come from an era where they were fed the line promoted by New Labour and the unions that the Tories did not care about them. It was wrong then and it is wrong to support the Labour Governments NHS closures now.
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NEETs are one of the real tragedies in this country, and it's the fault of the whole political system that this is happening, not just the present Labour government. The problems are deep routed - lack of opportunies, lack of hope, lack of organisation.
It is particularly grating that the government claims that we need Eastern Europeans to fill minial jobs that 'nobody else will do' (ie the night shift at supermarkets), when NEETs such as the lad in the NN film said he could have got a job there.
Perhaps an wider programme of state boarding schools would also be of great benefit to some of these youngers. I've been very fortunate that despite not being born into a particularly priviledged family, I have been able to achieve a degree level education, I could so easily have been a NEET myself.
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Abortion
The church is a male dominated bunch of control freaks. A woman should have total control ove her own body and not be dictated to by men who have condemned her since Eve.
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According to the Government,there is plenty of statistical evidence to prove that the UK has an overprovision of A & E units. That is if you change the definition of A & E as has the Labour Government. The overall level of local services are being reduced. Objection to the relocation of a unit from say Chichester to Worthing does not demonstrate a desire to have " services in one's back garden". People suffer and die because of extended travel times and the essence of the current debate is that a Labour Government continues to cloud the effect of it's self proclaimed economic success behind talk of "efficiencies" and "rationalisation". Decisions to close units are not the consequnce of free local choice. The Government has altered priorities and local decisions are often about which service reduction is the lesser evil. It still is a Government induced decision.
If one alters the definition, one must apply new criteria to judge the effectiveness of the policy, after first clearly admitting the truth - services are being reduced.
Incidently many other public services have suffered similarly. The failure to put enough resources into social housing over the past ten years has led to real, continuing hardship for many, and serious doubts amongst providers as to whether the promises of a drawn out, modest increase in homes to be provided will really tackle shortages. There has been no realistic attempt to head off affordable housing shortages. Watch-out for a redefinition of housing need when the Chancellor , sorry, Prime Minister seeks to save some more money.
There is a lack of honesty in Government which will catch it out. Many people across the country are being directly affected by change and will no longer be misled.
I also thought the Newsnight reporting was petty and biased and did not address the salient point about reduction in services.
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Regarding NEET's. (yet another abbreviation for young people to be "tagged with") I have been working now as a Creative Artist within the community, for over 25 years. the majority of thet time with young referrals (ASBO's, ABC's, and other potential offender's). As seen in your report, there seem's an underlying lack of respect, especially to themselves. A feeling of hopelessness. My job, and that of many other's, is to offer them the chance to express themselves in ways that their domestic, or educational circumstance, cannot offer. In my experience, these young people can shine, whether through public art projects, music, poetry, dance or drama, they can express themselves as individuals. And that is the answer, create the individual. Once THEY see their capabilities, and the respect they recieve for themselves and their work. They change, they start to stand alone, and not follow the trends of the street gang culture. They lead, not follow. Creativity is the key. In creativity, we all stand equal. We all have an equal chance to succeed. And it does'nt take a degree to do it.
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NEETs:
National Services, no.
Civil Corp, yes.
Instead of wasting & rotting (poorly state funded gap years) on the dole, let people positively contribute.
It is not a human right to not contribute towards society, when people are available & able then take from a society they are not contributing towards (by deed or by tax).
Social support & a 'safety net' YES 鈥. but a hammock NO
NHS:
Brown has cocked up the budget.
The changes are about money, period.
For 11+ years, Brown injected a flawed service with unsustainable amounts of funding & did not insist on change before cash.
Browns Boomerang continues to fly!
AMNESTY v CATHOLIC CHURCH
Sounds like a repeat of the farce over gay adoptions & the Catholic Church.
The out of touch atheist liberal lefties are steadily alienating those who offer credible support i.e. faith based involvement.
The Left won't be satisfied until their Big Brother state desires has attempted to poke its nose into every aspect of life & faith.
But that鈥檚 why the Left is electorally been Left behind 鈥 out of touch.
vikingar
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No 11 HEARTENING YET DEPRESSING
I've said this before but it's relevant so I'll repeat it.
Education is like distillation. You chuck a "mash" of society in a pot (called school) apply energy (called teaching) and out the top comes "spirit" with loads of qualifications.
But out the bottom comes SLUDGE. (Should this seem harsh, let me say I gravitated inexorably during much of my schooling.)
Spirit-folk run everything acceptable to society, from Parliament to prisons, and rarely have an inkling of what it is to be sludge.
Spirit-folk have lots of money and goods which sludge-folk steal and damage; bringing a measure of their misery to the spirited.
Sludge contains rare elements and gems (SEE POST 11) but the Spirit-folk stand so tall they seldom notice.
Typically, sludge-folk run nothing, not even their own lives. They survive through crime and welfare - a burden to all the spirited ones - who seem, paradoxically, too stupid to realise this. Until we see the factors of spirit and sludge as two INEVITABLE products of school - AS CURRENTLY STRUCTURED - all the down-stream tinkering, by spirited overseers, to control or uplift the sludge-folk, will be never-ending.
If we must continue with institutional schooling, to feed Mammon (an un-asked question in its own right) then I suggest that those who are suited to the school ethos should be "given the tools" and left to finish the job. The bulk of the education budget, and effort, could then be put to understanding and uplifting the proto-sludge-folk.
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NEETS! Britain is virtually the only country in Europe to have no form of National Service. National Service does not mean being immediately drafted as 'cannon fodder' but means that society can be positively served by those who are neither in college, university, or in a job, - as in Italy, Germany, Spain, etc. I used to provide accommodation for Language students and they ALL told me that the problems of youth violence, street crime, drunkeness, litter, graphiti were considerably reduced compared to Britain, which they found "disgusting" in these respects. National Service takes the form of a civil contingent and a military contingent for those with the correct aptitude. It has worked before, I think it could work again in Britain.
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My own Game Show Education won me accreditations that were unfounded
A "Masters" with no mastery...
"Manufacturing" with no factorisation or study of manual processes..or knowledge of how to manufacture household or industrial objects
"Systems" with insufficient systematic approach or test rig practice
"design" with inadequate design and communication optionalisation justification or dissertion..
"Engineering" with no working practice at all
"European" with no understanding of europe or international or industrial relations practice
"Business studies" with no actual business histories studied only the thought to intervene with modernist regressive intellect and ideas of your own
Days timetabled for attendance untasked untutuored untested...
Though interesting..at a 5th form summer holiday into sixth form way...it was not a graduate experience ... lecturers may have worked for 4 years...we sat around listened and persused books...2 weeks study was sufficient to do what was useful...the examinations were juvenile and could be half completed on the spur of the moment... it was boring and the occassional gameshow was all that could be resurrected of a gameshow public school background not meant for a library...
BCD
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Vikingar (#12),
could not your final point equally read:
'The Catholic Church V Amnesty'?
Is it really the actions of 'out of touch liberal lefties' (and that amorphous group alone) to support that abortion be regarded as potentially worthy of consideration in instances of rape and incest? After all, that (and that alone) is what Amnesty has recently adopted as a matter of policy, to the ire of the Catholic church.
Shall we have a look at Hansard and see, amongst the British political class, for example, quite which MPs might belong to that group, given their voting patterns with regards to abortion, and which MPs, given that voting record, might be expected to support the stance taken by Amnesty? Across all parties?
Is David Cameron an 'out of touch liberal lefty' for supporting a period of legal termination, and not only in instances of rape or incest, of between 20 and 22 weeks? Would he be an 'out of touch liberal lefty' if he had the balls to go further and make a statement on his position of Amnesty's policy (which I think we can surmise from his stance on abortion not only in the cases of rape or incest)?
In an age where systematic mass rape has become a weapon of war and intimidation, your glib point above does you no favours. There's certainly a debate to be had over abortion - I have my opinion and you have yours, but other 'liberal lefties' may disagree with me, and other swivel-eyed right-wingers may disagree with you. Your jibe above is cheap and wrong-headed.
I personally have no difficulty in believing that this was a difficult decision for Amnesty to take - particularly as they made the policy shift with their eyes open, aware of the strong disapproval of the Catholic church. You seem to think (although I stand to be corrected on this point) that Amnesty deliberately antagonised the Catholic church - although to what end, I do not know - and that they ought to have placed the feelings of the church foremost in the decision-making process concerning their policy on abortion for rape victims - above, that is, any and all other considerations (of, say, the well-being of the women).
For shame, V, for shame.
K
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A real university challenge? Don't tell JP. Nice to see a society that values education.
I don't think our kids are up to it. If the prize on uk reality shows was an engineering degree course it wouldn't get any contestants?
The two answers by the way i reckon are aluminium and iron?
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#15 A "Masters"
That's a poingnant tale you tell. Which Unversity is responsible? You have poetic leanings, perhaps you chose the wrong course.
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In a previous age Bertie Wooster would have been a NEET.
Another thought. Do young single mothers count as NEETs? If not why not?
Labels can be so misleading; maybe a better description would be Young and On Benefits (YOBs) - seems a bit more fitting somehow.
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Was Tony Sewell having a laugh? He didn't seem to take any of the debate on NEETs seriously. "There are lots of kids out there having fun." Um, excuse me? What relevance does that have to the discussion about the million teenagers without work or any hope of a good future? It's like having a debate on AIDS or cancer and saying "There are lots of people who don't have AIDS or cancer." And trying to claim the issue was an attack on the working class was really desperate and pathetic. I think you were out of your depth on this one, Tony.
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Just about the silliest comment I've heard on Newsnight all year was made by Prof Julian le Grand in Newsnight on 21 August. He said everyone wanted a hospital at the bottom otf their garden. The present set-up is hardly that! All people want is the range of local provision they have had up to now, and if alot of it is taken away then they need concrete proof that it's a price worth paying, not airy statements that everything will be better (not worse) as a result. And if there's consultation it needs to be open and transparent, not the fix that we've experienced in West Hertfordshire.
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Tory's and Hospitals.
Wake-me up !
Where were they when Kidderminster A&E was downgraded ?
All parties would benefit from listening to Dr Richard Taylor's(MP for Wyre Forest) views, as he has been there, seen it and done it.
Why not give him a Newsnight spot to profile the NHS ?
NEETs
It would be interesting to see Jackie Long's report extended to include the context of Walsall education policy in the area of Goscote over the past 15 years.(How many local schools closed or replaced)What is Education Walsall's(managed by SERCO)take on the production line of NEETs ?
Sadly, you seem to have reported Walsall as a 'white' community. Darlaston & Goscote are not a 'true' picture of Walsall.
Other communities sadly have their fair share of NEETs.
Why not do an in depth report on Walsall, similar to those you did in Salford a few years back.
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