大象传媒

If you are going to be talking about torture in the US why not mention the contents of PDD51.

We are not allowed to see the annexes although it has been confirmed by John Yoo, then of the US Justice department, that if the President sees fit, he can legally order the sexual torture of children.

and we have an extradition treaty with these people.

Has Newsnight finally realized that Darfur's atrocities deserved much coverage than Zimbabwe's in every sense?
What a spontaneous sense of awareness?
Africa would certainly know who his friends are when the times comes!

ONLY OBEYING ORDERS

As Germany tries to find what's funny in "Allo Allo" we are informed of Diane Beaver "only obeying orders" to approve torture. All the world's a stage and life is a dark sitcom it seems. Will Newsnight be asking Lord Goldsmith's view I wonder?

The problem with Gitmo is that it, plus Abu Ghraib has virtually destroyed the USA's moral authority, like Iraq has destroyed its' credibility.
Before when some eminent seppo pol held forth about the evil of certain regimes elsewhere, it could just about be believed and taken seriously. It's better moral standpoint was more or less accepted. Now - not a hope in hell. A maority of the people, in a majority of the world's nations, would simply answer "well you can talk, mate".
If that doesn't worry the people of the USA, who are by and large sound people IME, it should.

#3 - As Germany tries to find what's funny in "Allo Allo"..

Hello Barrie, sorry to bother you but do you have a link for this?

I once tried to explain the 'You-Started-It' Fawlty Towers episode to some good German friends of mine, whom I thought rather open-minded in the humour department. After the fifth attempt they looked at me as if I were an active member of the Monster Raving Loony Party. I haven't since dared to try my hand at inter-cultural humoristic communication...

THAT WAY LIES MADNESS!

Hi Cloe_f I spent a year in Germany (1969). I didn't mention the war.

Try Not much info.

And listen to today's "PM" online.

Why on earth is the 大象传媒 ignoring the fact that Labour are now 18 points behind the Conservatives?, obviously the 10p tax debacle is hitting Gordon Brown and his party very badly.......and yet...the 大象传媒 has buried this information.

Do we have to wait for a Guardian sponsored poll before the 大象传媒 will deem to discuss something which has huge impacts for us all?.

And before I hear any excuse such as the 大象传媒 does not comment on opinion polls, I would like to refer everyone to Cricks report on Newsnight two months ago in which he was asking why the Conservatives were only 7 points ahead.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I concur with post#7,

Rather than run yet another anti-US bashing report why not run a report on the remarkable lead the Conservative party have established over the Labour party?.

Darfur is another area in which the 大象传媒 has failed to highlight, if you compare the amount of air-time that the 大象传媒 gives to Gaza and the west bank and that it gives to Darfur it is clear that 大象传媒 has huge issues working out what is news and what is mostly local trouble which could occur in any city or country in the world.

Cloe F

The Credit Crunch collection is now up

Peter

Martha, No, No, No! "...but the producer and I snuck in anyway". What the heck is that supposed to be? No, No, No, Martha!

The use of English on the 大象传媒 is already falling into a pitiful state (viz: "One of our reporters have told us" and so forth), but to see you purposely using a word such as SNUCK defies belief! Even in fun ... which I hope it was!

@flawedlogic, i don't know if you wanted to say the amount of time allocated to zimbabwe instead, maybe Gaza deserve its fair share of reporting when you realize that, Gaza is a democracy we failed to recognize. Zimbabwe is only covered because of the plight of white farmers and their lobbies.

I for one am grateful for the fine work Americas soldiers and intelligence officers have done in uncovering and thwarting terrorist plots against America, Americans, and American interests abroad. When Lincoln made his pronouncement about torture, he never dreamt that such a thing as WMDs would exist and that a handful of conspirators could jeopardize the existance of an entire nation.

The notion of international law is a naive one which has proven a failure. It is only trotted out by those with a political agenda when it suits them and then put back in a drawer to be forgotten when it doesn't. I for one am for the US cutting off all treaties with foreign nations and only entering into bilateral trade and defense agreements with opt out clauses.

Streathaminte in Milano! #4
The United States does not need moral authority or credibility. All it needs is the means to defend and protect its citizens and the will to use it. The United States only exist for the purpose of advancing the interests of its own citizens. That is the way it is for every other country as well.

#13 - The Newsnight Message board DOES attract nutters after all! I was afraid this was going to be one internet message system where the comments would remain sane, alas; it was never meant to be!

Hmm! nothing about the petrol crisis. I'll give it a few days then when evreyone starts rushing for diesal it might wake a few people up and further make a mess of the budget estimates.

Some of our "regular" readers may recall I blogged on this some 4 weeks ago but probably as M.rock above states, I may be a nutter as no one got the significance then that the Manchester and Stanlow refineries, then, were turning away tankers for diesal. Then the pipeline from Immingham into Manchester had shut for maintainance so I wonder if it has re-opened?

Some of you with longer memories may recall the fire at the refinery somewhere around Milton Keynes? To my knowledge it never re-opened? That provided, we were told at the time, our spare capacity.

As a result there is no spare capacity and diesal supply has no slack in the system so, as I was told from a most reliable source (the family who own one of the major suppliers of petrol/fuel oil in my area, Lancashire and N.Wales), if there was to be any hic-up in the system (Scotland!) then look out for trouble. That was a month ago. My tank has been full since then and will remain so.

Understandably the Media, apart from today's Daily Express, and the Government does not want to promote panic buying so are playing it down. I hope they are right and I, and the evidence of an everyday supplier, is wrong.

My money that Newsnight will "Main" on this on Monday. In the meantime my drive into town I have suddenly noted petrol prices leap in ONE day by 2-3p per litre. Are the profiteers at work?

Company pensions will become a thing of the past, after all they were primarily introduced as a Cold War bribe to prevent anyone of ever voting anything like " communist ". Many final salary pensions are now closing to new members but as they are basically pyramid schemes, current members may find that the capital will not support the promised benefits. I can well understand why the Grangemouth workers are taking strike action, but will it do them any good in the end.

Barrie #6 - Ta very much. This came out in the meantime,



"I feel it is very British humour, but I can't say why!" takes the biscuit. Was on 'Have I Got News' too, odd one out amongst gummibears, George I, and a stench of pig manure...
_____________________

Peter #10 - Thanks for the reply (I wasn't expecting one..) but I'm slightly confused: on the public version of NN's front page the topic doesn't feature in the left-hand 'thematic' column, i.e. 'China' is followed by 'US elections' - there is of course a link bottom right but that was already there before and, I assume, will disappear in due course.

NN's coverage of economic/business/public finance issues has been very good and the credit crunch reports are amongst the best I have seen. They were comprehensible for anyone without background knowledge and us would-be economists were satisfied because they raised some of the crisis' fundamental problems in economic modelling and sector trading. That's a rare feat to achieve, and more than deserves to feature in NN's 'hall of fame', which up to now consists mainly of political reports.

From Mexico City
Hello
I think everybody must be interested or pay the enough attention about the Guantanamo Torture Techniques. The international organizations as the UN must take more seriously this topic.

Nallely a student of International relations

Thanks

M_Rock #14
I guess nobody close to you was hurt or killed in the "underground" as your call it on 7-7. Perhaps one day when someone is, you'll reconsider and come to a different conclusion.

gordon to lose...? no way. Once Cameron's insane policies are examined he will have nowhere to hide, and he will have to come clean. The only reason Brown is being battered is because he listened to the young fruitcakes that surround him saying the ten pence tax thing would not be a problem, that's the Blairite's for you. Brown should go back to his roots and go with the rich tradition of helping the poor and not bailing out the rich.

WITH RESPECT (leftieoddbod)

Hi leftieoddbod. I don't think you are giving enough attention to Brown's character as a human being, rather than a calculating machine. You can find a potted history of his path from early years to PM on the web and it has "limited human being" stamped all over it - quite possibly Asberger syndrome.
In simple terms, if you plot how far off course he clearly is, from one you might expect to be indicated on a moral compass, you have all you need to make a judgement on his suitability for high office.
Cameron, however, simply shows naked ambition and will, naturally, end in proverbial failure.

A key principle in the arguments regarding the USA's treatment of those detained in "The War on Terror" is that the US does not extend to them the protection of the Geneva Conventions. In that, the USA is correct. The terrorists are irregular combatants. The Geneva Concentions do not afford protection to such.
The Provisional IRA, INLA and Loyalist Paramilitaries were not treated under the Geneva Conventions but under Criminal Law.

The Geneva Conventions do not require that regular soldiers be treated according to the Conventions in perpetuity. For example, if a soldier misuses the white flag, eg entices the enemy to believe he/she is surrendering and then opens fire, then the soldier(s) who acted in this way are no longer protected by the Geneva Conventions.

Render fear to those who deserve fear and honour those to whom honour is due.

Marcus Aurelius - terrorism did not start with 9/11 and Dubya's "War".

We were undergoing terrorist attacks from your Irish, American-funded friends for decades before you guys got all religious on the concept.

Acting like you have some sort of moral high ground (see #19) is preposterous beyond the point of being laughable.

Firstly, no one is saying that the US does not have a right to protect it's citizens.

Secondly, what weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq?

And to quote the fine lines of the Geneva convention to cover up torture is pathetic. The principle behind the convention holds true in any case, whether an individual is a soldier, freedom fighter, or terrorist - incidentally, what is a terrorist.

In one hand the US talk about human rights, protecting civil liberties, security and on the other hand it hits hard at the principal of humanity by advocating torture. Whilst Europeans hold human rights highly, the US is willing to undermine human rights in the name of national security.

The whole thing is a disaster and murdering people is murdering people. One group tag it under national security and another tag it under terrorism. It's all the same - people should not be getting killed!

Ah yes. The British govt is in trouble and tbe 大象传媒 dutifully shouts:

"Yeah but look over there at the Big Bad Americans!!!"

"Why not comment on the tories' lead, instead of bashing the US?"

The Labour Party's closeness to the torturing and war-loving US regime is very much a part of their unpopularity. One poster argues, above, that "The United States does not need moral authority or credibility. " - it may not need moral authority, but it should certainly be very embarrassed about not having it. I like most american people I meet, but their government has brought a once-admired nation to shame.

"Why not comment on the tories' lead, instead of bashing the US?"

The Labour Party's closeness to the torturing and war-loving US regime is very much a part of their unpopularity. One poster argues, above, that "The United States does not need moral authority or credibility. " - it may not need moral authority, but it should certainly be very embarrassed about not having it. I like most American people I meet, but their government has brought a once-admired nation to shame. For myself, as a card-holding party member, I just cannot bring myself to vote when we so obviously lack the principled foreign policy we were promised - remember, when we had the most popular govt. of all time? Nations benefit from having good moral principles much as people do, and vice versa.

Apologies for the double post, please leave as is.

Does the Newsnight blog get its steam from Grangemouth too? Is that why this is down?

IS IT BROKEN? I would put a diy smiley here but it would come out as two question marks and a square. Good ere innit.

My refused post at No 8, was an attempt to solicit views on what can we do to obtain vital information in advance of, and in order to foil, horrendus acts of terrorism against innocent citizens. A subject that does not lend itself to the old-fashioned softly, softly approach.
Thank you Post No22, and carry on in that vein as I shall cease to post rather than have to follow a formula in expressing what I truly believe.

When you say you're going to be talking to Hazel Blears I presume you mean "and representatives from the other parties ". It would be spectacularly undemocratic if you had invited a member of the Labour Party to appear on Newsnight a mere 3 days before the elections and allowed her to pontificate unchallenged. We are not yet a one party state.

ONE WOMAN CIRCUS

Oh go on, let Hazel do her worst. She is no threat. Her "Good Ship Lollypop" routine always has me weeping for Labour. Hazel's irrepressible Pollyanna smile is worth thousands of votes for anyone but Hazel.
Her groundless pontification is to die for - I probably will.

NEWS FOR GAVIN who posted:

Sometimes working in 大象传媒 Television Centre is like living in a parallel
universe. I thought I'd share that with you.

Hi Gavin, it is pretty parallel interfacing with 大象传媒 TV too.

IT's A FUNNY OLD WORLD

I remember the old days when 'terrorists' seemed to be those who were hell bent on destroying the state. They were often referred to as anarchists or Trots.

However, in today's free, Liberal-Democracies (which all basically embrace anarcho-capitalism and 'human rights'), 'terrorists' now appear to be those who try to THWART those hell bent on destroying the state.

What's worse, the electorate (or at least, those who are confused enough to still vote) appears determined to only vote in people/parties who promise less and less government.....

Elsewhere in the world, the bad guys often appear to be those who try to govern their countries rather than just trust to the wisdom of Liberal (anarchic) Democracy and its free-market. These are the people who are members of the Shanghai Group (or who want to be members).

Or have I missed something?

AH SO GLASSHOPPER!

Those whom 大象传媒 wish make mad first send email link to eleven dimensional cyberspace.
Confucius say functionality of blog inversely proportional money paid to ignorant IT git.

HARD TO BELIEVE

The Shanghai Media and Entertainment Group puts this devotee of "Red Dwarf" into a state of stasis-disbelief as it is SMEG for short. Is this the new face of terror? Is it a wind-up? Are we being hoist with our own petard. Note petard is only one letter from retard, that letter being Q. Are we being peed on? Do they mock our queuing culture? What other cherished Britishness will the yellow peril throw in our faces next? Cricket? Be afraid. NO! Better still, be terrified.

Well_Red, I am not intrested in moral high ground, just my own security. I have no qualms about giving up someone else's high opinion of me or my government to increase my own safety. I couldn't care less what people outside the US thing of it, besides America bashing has been a European sport since the American Revolution and gets more intense whenever Europe feels it doesn't need America.

It seems to me it is the Reds, the Communists who twist and distort morality. Their Robin Hood steal from the rich to give to the poor and the ends justifies the means view of society and history violates any moral code I ever read about. This for example is how Stalin and Mao justified mass murder of their own people. It's also how the EU justifies British taxpayers being forced to pay for Hungarian roads.

The reposte "I was just following orders" is the weakest trick in the book. Does not each man and woman have a conscience, a spark of the natural law within? There is no such thing as a chain-of-command when it comes to individual conscience. It seems obvious to me that Ms. Beaver should have to go on record for sponsoring and abetting war crimes, just as Rumsfield is responsible for verifiying such techniques and misinforming the general public about the horrific brutalities daily committed in Guantanamo. "When you are in the situation at the bottom you are just going on day to day...it was not my personal morals in terms of how you judge the situation, it's the law and the law allowed quite a bit." What an absolutely inane judgment. If the law allows one to eat one's child, would you still go ahead and do it? No. And IT IS her personal morals which had to arbitrate over this situation. Morality, ethics, humanity, all should be foremorst in a lawyers mind, especially one giving advice as to how to torture in order to gain the truth about so-called terror-cells. I feel that Ms. Beaver shows the great problem with American justice and the American military in general, who daily object that "they were just following orders." It has been the disgraceful prize of such people that they can say, without a hint of compunction, that they were following orders when they helped to slaughter some 656,000 people in Iraq. They have earned there thirty pieces of silver against humanity very well indeed.