大象传媒

THERE WAS A TIME . . .

Not any more Michael. There was a time when honour and integrity were the measure of man; we have lost the ability to measure the immeasurable.

Michael you just don't get New Labour.

Do you like Science Fiction? Star Trek? Remember the Borg?

"We are New Labour. Your distinctiveness will be absorbed into the collective. We are New Labour etc".

Free thinking frightens us these days. Davis, and I am no Tory by anyones analysis, resigns to try and make a point. Then the media says thats interesting - he's mad!. They were being serious.

Meanwhile the problems with Labour won't be handled.

Last night on Newsnight they looked at Rudd and stressed that Alan Milburn was behind his great victory (I did not know and that knocked down my opinion of him considerably). Will they see the alleged genius of Milburn? Probably not. Could he be the next leader? Ha ha ha ha! Imagine that as a high pitched hysterical shriek.


So as Labour at the next election drives into the ground and is buried and all we will hear is "We are New Labour.....".

#" said "Davis, and I am no Tory by anyones analysis, resigns to try and make a point. Then the media says thats interesting - he's mad!. They were being serious. "

And what point is he making? He has resigned because while he agrees with his OWN party's policy, he is in a huff because the OTHER parties don't agree with him! That is hardly a unusual situation. It is the norm in parliament.

Think about it. For example, Should the Scottish Nationalist MPs resign because the other parties won't support their policy of Independence for Scotland? Or how about LIbDems MPs resigning because the Tories won't support them on Iraq?

Madness is the best descripition What Davis displayed was pique not principle.

Personally, I am opposed to the 42 days but it needs a serious approach from the Shadow Home Secretary not jumping overboard at the first set back.

I have been trying to post supporting Davis' stand but Newsnight keeps rejecting it, despite being within house rules.

Maybe Newsnight simply don't want any posts supporting David Davis?

Or raising issues such as detention, RIP act, DNA database, ID cards, EU warrant, EU requirement for monitoring electronic communications, and now EU querying whether we should be allowed to blog.

Come on Labour, put up a candidate or admit you're frit! Davis has at least had the courage to put his job on the line (Cameron will probably fire him after this) to call attention to what your government is doing to this country in the name of 'the war on terror'.
In fact, the 'war' seems to be against its own people, with CCTV, council spies rooting through our bins, road pricing, DNA database, ID cards etc, none of which will help against 'terror, but will certainly help the government keep tabs on every one of us. Come, Labour - put up or shut up - or would you rather hide behind Kelvin McKenzie?

any bets on how long some jobsworth will crawl out of the EU woodwork and say that the Irish will have to vote again till they get it right, the French and Dutch obviously said no but they are undergoing a period of 're-education' more worthy of Pol Pot and I speak as a supporter of closer intregration with our European bretheren but a clear expression of the vote NO has to be respected. On any questions (R4) a listener said that the Irish security services said they were 'leaning' on the NO vote camp, that would suggest that will all the power, money and establishment figures expecting a YES vote, the last few days of the campaign sent them into a frenzy. Imagine the UK getting a vote on the same treaty with all the control freakery of this administration the Irish experience would be a stroll in the park. Brown will have to fall into line soon and give the people a bit of Irish.

It would appear that the Corporate Nazis are relying on their favorite Calvin Mc Murdock mouthpiece to stand as the only credible candidate against David Davis in his forthcoming by-election.

Perhaps if David Davis is genuine in his quest to protect civil liberties he should broaden his attack to include things like Spy in the Sky road charging and Bin tax.

Probably, labour will stand in by-election...

[dispatch 11.39pm on 13 June 2008]....It
doesn't surprise me, they are rejected items that are supporting a specific candidate or person and/or party...

It probably didn't help the young parliamentary candidate knowing that every word he spoke would be diced, dissected, taken out of context, re-framed, seen in another light and set against the backdrop of something else someone once said somewhere else by you and your ilk Michael.

I like investigative and intrusive reporting but politicians of all parties are being driven into their respective bunkers and this 'lad' is no different.

Not only will we get the politicians we deserve, we will get the politics we deserve.

If Labour don't put up a candidate it will not be because GB doesn't believe he needs to fight for broad acceptance of 42 days, it will be because their strategists feel that they will play out better in the media and therefore the polls by trying to portray Davis as a fool.

This will always be the way of things until we break party driven politics. If democracy merely means being able to cast a vote, then I for one am happy to leave mere democracy behind. I want much more than that.

NOT A WHITEWASH

Robert Blanco as posted above: "This will always be the way of things until we break party driven politics."
David Davis has (almost) stepped outside party politics. He had to shake off party games to be empowered by any degree of altruism, integrity, honour and dignity.
This is one small step for mankind.

I have imported from my post on another thread:

NOT A WHITEWASH

Robert Blanco as posted above: "This will always be the way of things until we break party driven politics."
David Davis has (almost) stepped outside party politics. He had to shake off party games to be empowered by any degree of altruism, integrity, honour and dignity.
This is one small step for mankind.
SPOIL PARTY GAMES

I have imported from my post on another thread:

SOMETHING COMPLETELY RELEVANT

13 June 2008 (Radio 4 'Thought for the Day'.)

Some points from Vishvapani鈥檚 piece.

Invigorating to hear politicians discuss fundamental principles and their interpretation.

Neither scripture nor power is a sound basis for believing something is right or true. Experience is called for.

Contentment, kindness, wisdom - connect us to others and reality.

Understand your own motivations and transform them.

Morality is a skill

Self knowledge, integrity and careful reflection permit you to move forward as a worthwhile being.

Why should the Labour party, already short of cash, have a so-called election just to massage the ego of a political opportunist?

Davis wants the Labour Party to give some credibility to his foolish prank.

Davis is acting like the political bully he is. Trying to goad Brown into a fight by a typical bully's taunts, "coward, yellow, dare you", etc. etc.
Let him have his phyric victory in a few weeks' time when his loyal voters rally round and vote him back again, if ever he was to lose this seat on a non event.

I foresee the headlines "Voters agree with Davis that 42 days was wrong", something many of us had come to that conclusion, election or no election.

DD did not resign over 42 days , he resigned over the general erosion of a our civil liverties. There is a difference, this is not a one issue point its part of his greater dissapoinment how the goverment is creating a Computer state

HERE HERE (Robson90)

Very apparent that the New Labour honourables are working hard to make out the answer to Davis, Screwloose and Everything is 42. Another part of the miserable disingenuity is to say he is totally against cameras and a DNA database. I am not fooled into thinking a man who has put up with Westminster ordure for all these years and floated to the top, is untainted. But he is all we've got.

er robson, where has Davis been the last 10 years? If erosion of Civil Liberties was the issue over which he resigned, as you say, he should/would have done it long ago.

You might want to change the reason but Davis resigned over losing the vote in the Commons and the way Labour got it, so it was over the 42 days, a one issue. In fact he said this outside Parliament.

Now if you and his supporters want to save his face by just widenening the issue a little, fair enough but before long, it will be at a General Election on Labour's record.

I have no problem with that but surely that will be in under two year's time? He can waste his own money and his backers but not the Labour Party's.

"Another part of the miserable disingenuity is to say he is totally against cameras and a DNA database. "

Its often quoted that theres a camera for every 14 people in the UK. It isn't generally reported than the vast majority of these are private cameras (petrol stations, banks, shops etc).

Playing devils advocate surely if we're 'defending civil liberties' a Tory should defend my right to fit a CCTV camera on my own private property to protect my home against crime?

@Peter_Sym

Of course they should. But that is the primary issue with CCTV. Its omnipresence isn't evidence of a surveillance state, so much the result of cheap technology and an overestimated view of its effectiveness.

Forget just private ownership. If you subtract every camera which is illegally placed, of low image quality, subject to poor record retention or no retention at all, completely unmonitored, and in extemis, not even functional, then the number left that produce material that is useful for law enforcement purposes, never mind actually admissable in court, is fairly low.

Personally I criticise the government's love affair with the technology more from a financial perspective than a civil liberties point of view. There are more important issues to debate - CCTV is a red herring.

Diverball: yours is exactly the sort of opinion that never seems to get air time. "Big brother might be watching you... but he can't recognise you because the camera is so pixellated"
doesn't quite have the same threat to it!

"Why should the Labour party, already short of cash, have a so-called election just to massage the ego of a political opportunist?

Davis wants the Labour Party to give some credibility to his foolish prank.

Davis is acting like the political bully he is. Trying to goad Brown into a fight by a typical bully's taunts, "coward, yellow, dare you", etc. etc.
Let him have his phyric victory in a few weeks' time when his loyal voters rally round and vote him back again, if ever he was to lose this seat on a non event."

-Billbradbury

1. Lets not let democracy get in the way of cashflow.

2. Political Opportunists do not throw away positions in the shadow (not for much longer) cabinet

3. Describing Davis as a bully is interesting. There is one politician that I can think of who has not even been elected, and relies on a bully's tactics- vote in a particular way in a particular vote, or everyone in a particular party will suffer, and the future of that particular party may be desitned for a particular 'plughole of history'.

4. As far as I am aware, the main purpose of this was to stimulate debate on the issue. It is a cheap trick of a particular political party to suggest that Davis is doing this for purely selfish reasons only.

Maybe, Davis actually is making a principled stand, unlike the politicians of said particular party...

The vast majority of private cctv camera are in fixed positions and of low quality, the T.P.Z. (tilt pan zoom) type can only be used to view on the property or directly relating to the exceptions being if a crime is being committed and surely nobody could have a problem with that use unless you are of a somewhat criminal mind set.

yes