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There is something really quite sad about human beings venerating other human beings. It seems very like worship. I know that William went to great lengths to say on talk back that there's a difference between worship and veneration but to many of us the difference is academic.

But, PTL, what do you think of Will's suggestion that many Protestants do the same thing with the bible? There's a word for it actually: . (Oops, I posted a link. But relax, it doesn't lead to my site.)

It is a very, very, very odd thing that people would want to come and stare at a body and that their explanation is that they're paying "respects"; I don't get it at all (I barely get it when it happens at funerals, but this venerating makes it that much more creepy to me).

Human beings have, throughout history, engaged in this kind of worship of each other, John.

The Bible is a different matter. I would not wish to throw out a Bible even if it is past using because i respect it as a sacred text, the Word of God. That is not veneration, it's just recognising what the bible is, God's letter to the world. If you had a letter from God, would you treat it respectfully? I heard about a preacher throwing his bible form the pulpit to make some silly point about bibliolatry. This is wrong because the bible is a very sacred book. It is not just the words of men, it is the words of God. That means those who throw it from pulpits are blaspheming.

P.S., I hope the humanists were listening to talk back on their lunch break ... one of their relics got a mention on the show when William talked about Jeremy Bentham's preserved body in University College, London!

What we have when it comes to the text of the Bible are reliable copies of the autographs (the original written documents). We do not have the autographs now. The Jews buried them as they were worshipping them as they had worshipped the Golden Calf. The Bible in most languages is only a reliable translation. Before any documents were written God's word was handed down orally. The Word of God is finally revealed in the Logos of God His one and only Son.

Any view of the Bible that takes away from the Triune God as our object of worship is idolatry.

The Bible is a Divine Revelation. In the Bible we find out what God wants mankind to know about Himself and His plan.

The Bible is the only written revelation of God to man.

No one has ever successfully refuted the Bible. Many mock the Bible but avoid challenging it point by point. No one who has done in-depth research, honestly examining the evidence for the Bible's inspiration and truthfulness, has been able to disprove the Bible.

History records many who set out to disprove the Bible, who instead became believers.

PTL says: "The Bible is a Divine Revelation."

Because it claims to be?


"In the Bible we find out what God wants mankind to know about Himself and His plan."

No, we find out what mankind has written about God. We also read history, poetry, letters, songs, and much other literature which mere men placed in this order between two pieces of leather for you to idolise thus.


"No one who has done in-depth research, honestly examining the evidence for the Bible's inspiration and truthfulness, has been able to disprove the Bible."

You're wrong. And yet the standards you would exact on other claims would include a criteria of 'proof' requiring that proof support a text before it is considered proven, not that it is considered proven until someone disproves it. With that in mind, can you prove the truthfulness of the bible?

William

if you were going to be consistent you might at least use the term "veneration" in relation to the display of his remains BEFORE you turn your guns on Protestants to accuse them of it.

Quite clear double standards IMHO...

PB

PS Protestants do venerate their "saints" to. This is of course a complete red herring because of course according to Paul every believer is a saint. This was clear when he was writing to the saints in Corint for examples about scandals in their church.

PB ... am I missing something? William HAS used the term "veneration" in relation to the saint's remains BEFORE commenting on Protestants .... Will and I have a very different worldview, but fair's fair ...

PB

"Protestants do venerate their "saints" to"

The word venerate has a spectrum of synonyms from respect through to worship.

I think it would be helpful if you clarified which end of the spectrum you were thinking of.

Jovial PTL you are quite right - I retract!

I am just so conditioned to seeing double standards by this blog being used to set of liberal straw-bogey men to knock them down!

Entries appearing in William's name consistently warn against stereotyping categories of liberal darlings, but there is no such care in discussing the baddies.


Pete
I mean venerate in the same sense as William does....

PB

PB, its best when you are responding to liberals to be specific, and no to engage in generalised muck throwing.