Under control?
Another PMQs, another Home Office crisis to handle. It wasn't meant to be like this. The home secretary's confession "I'm John Reid and my department's not fit for purpose" was supposed to bring an end to these sorts of crises.
The PM began by deploying what sounded - at first - like the fact that would protect his home secretary and his ministers. All the serious criminals who'd offended abroad were . Later though came the crucial qualifier - there were 280 serious criminals who were not on the computer because there wasn't sufficient information about them. What's more Tony Blair could not answer David Cameron's question - could he give a guarantee that these people had never worked with children? An answer to that is promised soon.
At the time of the foreign prisoners scandal John Reid asked his officials if there were any other similar issues that he should be aware of - and should tell the public about. He wasn't told about this. Now an internal inquiry must find out why. The implication is that, as after the foreign prisoners scandal, civil service heads will roll.
Politically this may prove irrelevant. Even if it's "someone else's fault", voters and parliament hold ministers responsible. This story - and the confusion with which it's been handled - will be a massive setback to the government's attempts to prove that, however bad things were in the past, they've got the Home Office under control again.
I'm 
Comments
How can this Labour government continue to get away with it. Time after time blunders like today's Home Office problems come to light and still people trust them. I am at a loss to understand it, considering what criticism the last tory government was subjected to.
It isn't "someone else's fault", Nick. It is the boss's fault. It is his responsibility to see that his department is well run. If people aren't telling him the things he needs to know, then he is not running his department correctly. The buck stops with the man at the head of the ministry and if heads do roll, his should be one of them. Of course, that would require rather old fashioned ideas such as truthfulness and responsibility - not something we are likely to see from Mr. Reid.
Mike Meur,
The Government wont get away with it any longer. The people have lost trust in them and they will be booted out at the next election. The people will win one day.
Why is it that this sort of revelation no longer surprises me?
What I can't understand is why the sharing of vital information between countries was only voluntary in the first place and was only made compulsory recently.......surely we can't be the only country which has this problem and have the powers that be provided the relevant details to foreign governments regarding serious crimes committed by foreign nationals in this country???
Also what about non-european countries. This agreement about sharing information seems to have been between only European countries. Does any compulsory information sharing exist for non-European countries.
So yet again the Civil Servants do not get blamed for these mistakes. The last time this happened I commented on the fact that someone very high up in the Civil service had not been brought to book for these blunders and it has happened again. This would have still happened had a Tory government been in power. The kind of mistakes and lack of accountability are being made due to poor management of the office in question and lack of attention to detail. I am not a fan of John Reid but I still think that someone in the Civil Service & not the Government should be brought to book.
Does anyone happen to know under what circumstances the Queen can dissolve Parliament? One would of thought that an endless sream of instances where those responsible for the protection of the inhabitants of the realm have been totally derelict in their duty would be reason enough. Further, as HM opposition has all the appearence of being just as bad, where does that leave us?
A very un-British, but very necessary military coup anybody???
Hope you don't suppress this comment like my last one!
Funny how these stories always come out just after the press report how John Reid is once again thinking about challenging Gordon for the leadership, isn't it? Anyone would think there is someone deliberately sabotaging him, which I'm sure can't be true!
Maybe it's time for a Home Office amnesty, this time for civil servants to tell John Reid about any landmines in his portfolio that he still doesn't know about?
According to John Reid, ACPO became responsible for dealing with information on foreign convictions from May 2006, ie before Mr Reid's review of the Home Office. Is it not obvious that senior officials in the Home Department therefore decided 'it was no longer their problem' and swept it under the carpet? I suspect the Permanent Secretary must have been aware of this - when will he resign? And why has it taken ACPO eight months to spill the beans?
One political consequence will be that John Reid will never be Labour leader and won't challenge Brown. There have been too many bad news stories from the Home Office since he took over for him to be able to make it. (There is of course more on my blog ;) )
Oh my, oh my. There are so many incompetencies in this administration, I dont know where to start. Along with the sleaze and whiff of corruption, it all kind of merges into one horrible taste in the mouth.
I dont know about anybody else, but I have a great feeling of nostaglia for pre 1997.
What we are witnessing now is the result of 10 years of dumbing down, lack of attention to detail, blase attitudes to responsibility and a lack of respect for the institutions that make this country work.
If Blair is looking to replicate his political hero, Clinton, then he has succeeded. Their legacy is one of sloppiness.
It's at times like this I wonder what the point of electing politicians actually is. The buck stops nowhere.
In truth I suspect that Whitehall is divorced from any reality whatsoever and those who work within end up the same way.
What does bother me about this is that this same Home Office, who are seemingly incapable of collating and ensuring the integrity of what is such important information, have been given the task of trying to do the same thing with EVERYONE's identity information. Just this week we were now told that the only biometrics that woulds appear on such a register would now be fingerprints. Wonder why that is?
While not wanting to sound too alarmist, does it seem at all likely to you that the departments responsible for all this will be able to consolidate what information and systems already exist into an ID system that exhibits the levels of security and integrity required to protect them?
No, I don't think so either...
CRB checks are vital safeguards we rely on to make sure adults working with youngsters, or other vulnerable members of society are not "at risk".
John Reid needs to spend more time and effort working in his department instead of making grandiose speeches about "new labour", its more like a case of "new failure" as far as the public is concerned.
You might as well ask How many Civil Servants does it take to change a light bulb? Inquiry?!
They get away with it because they've neutered the ´óÏó´«Ã½, have a cosy arrangement with the Murdoch media, pick their own (tame)judges for official enquiries,have their own placemen on committees and quangos and threaten any whistle blowers with dire consequences. They can pick their own time to bury bad news and are fortunate that the Tory Opposition has marginalised the 'old-timers' with real teeth, like Tebbit and Ken Clarke, in the attempt to be Nu Labour Type II. Modern Tory teeth are just porcelain veneers: pretty for smiling but not fit for biting.
The latest Home Office scandal, being yet another among so many, does not even cause surprise. We are used to Govt. incompetence and sleaze. Where's the story?
The department's too big and too disorganised to be managed by any one Secretary of State.
Everyone sees this but Blair won't split it up because he doesn't want to accept an opposition suggestion.
Reid is Blair's patsy and by taking the Home Office he is slowly but surely destroying any chance he (thinks he) has of assuming the Labour leadership.
Our politicians have created vast governmental departments that neither they nor their civil servants seem capable of managing effectively. I would vote for any politician who could convince me of their ability to control a department and waste less of our money, almost irrespective of their political policies.
a political commentator summed up the home office situation this afternoon when he stated that the problem of home office officials sitting at their desks with files containing information on potential criminals gathering dust for years is an absolute disgrace
What's so special about this government? After all, it's the Civil Service which actually does the work (or in this case, doesn't). The Tory government which preceded this one had its fair share (more than its fair share) of errors mistakes and mis-statements.
In a culture where ministers have to carry the consequences for their subordinates' failures or shortcomings, what incentive is there on those actually responsible for doing the work to get it right, or join up the dots? None. Quite the opposite, if x number of years' service at such and such a level automatically entitles the Servant to a grade of Honour.
The "Yes, Minister" series is still the best guide to the way the UK Government works in practice and that must be at least 20 years old.
Root and branch reform of the Civil Service is required. No significant improvement in service will occur without it. I had hopes that Nu Labour might do this, instead of which the whole lot of them have gone over to the Dark Side.
I fully concur with Mike Meur's comments. How and why do this goverment escape with so much in comparison to the last Conservative adminstration?
I can only assume that the electorate have become totally numb to any civil service failings and no longer care that their hard earned taxes go to paying these buffoons' wages.
Since when have ministers been in charge of anthing. Civil Servants RULE (OK), Politicians are only there to take the flack when the civil servants get it wrong either accidentally or, may we say, deliberately to embarass the incumbent minister.
Both Poiticians and Civil Servants need to be reminded that, actually, the public are in charge, we are the ones that pay their inflated salaries and gold plated pensions.
It is time for a revolt.
Why is this touted as such a shocking thing?
From my own meagre experience of dealing with civil servants, this type of inefficiency is a daily occurence, whatever colour of politician is in charge of the shop.
There will be a legitimate procedural detail about the lack of information preventing entry onto the database. If partial information entered had lead to the arrest, suspension or sacking of completely innocent individuals incorrectly identified through inadequate information, there would be a similar hue and cry not to mention a number of unwitting lives ruined.
I have worked with young people all of my life and remain amazed that it can still take 4-6 months to get a CRB clearance completed. So even if they were on the database they could well be in post and working with children whilst waiting for the check to find out.
The Labour government are totaly incompetent,their policies beyond belief,how can they continue to treat
the hardworking british public in this farcical way,it truly is a discrace.
It seems they cannot maintain an existing database yet they want to create a new huge one for the ID cards scheme.
How many of the 60 million entries required for ID cards will be wrong or just left lying about on a desk somewhere?
I know it is fashionable now to bash politicians and this government at every vailable opportunity, but can we please get things into perspective?
For all John Reid has under his control, human error by the civil service is not one of them in any way, shape or form.
I see people saying this is a 'Labour' problem - but since when have the civil service been members of the Labour Party?
And how exactly are mistakes by the same people the responsibility of the ministers?
This is as ludicrous as blaming a football manager for losing a match if one of his defenders scores an own goal - it is not the fault of the manager, yet in this blame culture we live in it is his head on the block.
They can merely respond to human error, not eradicate it.
Who here can honestly say they have never made a mistake?
Okay so the workers at the Home Office screwed up. They problably will again.
But castigating the minister, whether he be Labour, Tory or Liberal is not going to change anything.
A. Student
I wonder how many more such surprises are still to come? Since the Home Office has become politicised, Britain has become a criminals' dream with inept policies on "punishment" (mainly fines that often don't get collected, or prison sentences that get cut short); a compensation culture (at Public expense) calculated to reward the bad guys with huge payouts; and a refusal to deport foreign criminals. Why officials are apparently continually treating crime as an acceptable lifestyle choice escapes me. I'd have thought that Dr Reid would have attended to that by now- apparently not.
Tough on crime? Don't make me laugh. Rapists, paedos, murderers and so on are, once again, the main beneficiaries of New Labour's incompetence. The current Minister's say 'not our fault' and their predecessors keep their heads down. Nevermind foreign criminals never being able to work with children; this Government should never be allowed to work with the electorate!
It's a reminder if anyone forgot why John Reid never wanted the job.
This is another cover-up, It's just come to light (after the commons statement) that the Association of Chief Police Officers asked the Home Office for extra funding for this particular problem and it was turned down.
So are we now to believe that the home office ministers didn't know about this until yesterday?
Another day, another Labour lie!
I believe the reason why the Labour Government gets away with so much is because no one complains loud enough about their incompetancies.
The Conservative Party doesnt shout loud enough about what Labour do wrong. Back in 1997 Labour totally tore the Conservative Party apart over every little thing. All the Tories do now is ask a few questions in PMQ and its forgotten a few hours later.
The louder they shout, the more people will listen and realise what a punch of patsys run this country.
Response to Joe Mooney "The people will win one day"
Well not until there is fundamental electoral reform. For nearly 60 years we have been a country governed by the largest minority. Whilst the situation today is the worst ever, where a 64% who voted for other policies are dictated to by a group with only 36% national support, there is little prospect of a fairer representation of the will of the people for some time yet. When you have a systemic disconnect between those in power and those governed there is almost inevitably a need to "spin" situations and policies so the government at least prevent street protests a la Poll Tax since a majority of us didn't want their policies in the first place!
Secondly when you have a government that is so intent on various "sound good" nanny state initiatives it is inevitable that the whole business of governance and effective administration becomes impossibly complex. The competition for time and attention from the relatively few capable people there are means that many critical things don't get attended too because too much resource is spent on nice to have "window dressing" failures such as the CPA and the burgeoning healthcare bureaucracy.
Whilst I often hear it said the coalitions make weak government I'm not sure that I think Germany has done so badly sice 1945, especially when compared to the previous 50 years. Also its much more difficult to bully those dependant on your patronage when you are also dependant on their support. Could the Iraq fiasco with all the dubious interpretations of security briefings etc been so easily driven through in a coalition? I think not. We desperately need electoral reform to put a brake on the ever presidential style of government being allowed to pursue a minority interest agenda ( whichever is the largest minority party!)and get governance back to being more strongly connected to the will of the people.
In answer to A. Student, it should be pointed out that while ministers are not responsible for the day-to-day activities of their civil servants, they are answerable for their departments' results. They are the equivalent of managing directors, determining policies, defining objectives, setting targets and monitoring progress. The fact that so few politicians these days have no experience of running even a whelk stall before they enter Parliament may have something to do with the incompetence of the current administration, but no-one could with confidence say that the Tories would do any better.
This current crisis is small beer compared with the disclosure in a recently leaked Downing Street policy review document 'Crime, Justice and Cohesion' that nine out of ten crimes are not reported or go unpunished. While Doctor John Reid cannot be blamed for this lamentable statistic, a Labour government that ten years ago came to office promising to be 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' certainly can.
It seems that many contributors take the view that Ministers are not ultimately responsible for the mistakes that occur in the implementation of policy. If we accept this as a point of principle, then surely they must be held to account for their policy decisions. Yet when we consider the Iraq debacle and the complete and utter failure of IT schemes, to name just two, then it seems that this does not apply either. In essence, it seems that Ministers believe that we pay their salaries simply in order for them to maintain a well-to-do lifestyle (inc. private education). Since the electorate keep voting them back in, can anyone blame them for behaving as they do?
A politician is selected purely on the basis of being able to lie plausibly and not scare the voters.
We then expect them to be decent managers, when the only real reason they are in the job is because they are too incompetent at anything else.
So then of course they are crap at running a department - but they normally change jobs before their incompetence becomes unmissable.
By the way did they ever work out what happened to the 1 billion pound deficit that the Home Office had a year back which prevented the audit office signing off their accounts?
One can't help wondering whether the timing of this news was "managed" to allow Blair to get away once again without venturing an opinion on Saddam's execution. Or is that too cynical?
The government is only really riding now on the back of Blair's charisma. Once he is gone, they are history.
Oh deary me another day, and another example of NuLabor incompetency.
Earlier this week we had an ex-education minister, who had so failed in that office, that she had to send her own son to a private school.
Now we have a Home Office minister who does not even know what is going on in his department.
He told us it was not fit for it's purpose, when he took over, so what has he been doing to get it sorted?
Really it's about time that heads were knocked together, and a few of the incompetents were thrown out.
But at the moment we have a headless chicken government!
I agree totally with Jon Ridge. Its just unrealistic to imagine that mistakes like this, however unpalatable, will not happen under *any* government. They did under the Tories, they have under Labour, and they will again.
I find it bizarre and somewhat depressing that many people rush to use intemperate and ill-considered tabloid language to describe what is - lets face it - a regrettable human error.
Linking it to 'sleaze', 'Labour lies', 'spin' etc just reveals the shallow depth of intelligent analysis that passes for political debate now. As Jon Ridge said - it just doesn't help anyone.
The sooner we can just grow up about this sort thing and see it in perspective a bit more, the more effectively government will work. Until then its likely to remain stuck in combating peurile playground insults about which 'side' would manage things better. Its pathetic, frankly.
How can anyone be suprised? If David Davis was speaking the truth when he said that this adminstration has passed more legislation in the past 10 years than was passed in the whole of the last century - and it feels true - then anyone who has worked in a large organisation will know the scenario. Masses of 'new' important things to do, staff overworked, staff leave, new staff come, but there is no time for a proper handover or induction. Boss changes, another new agenda, more staff changes, everyone is afraid they will loose their jobs. No one is thinking clearly. An embarassing crisis, time spent finding out what went wrong. Meanwhile, many previously vital tasks remain undone. What really scares me is what is being neglected while they conduct this latest witch hunt!
Is it because Reid is a bully and civil servants are frightened of him, that they are not telling him bad news?
Why have the public found out about this. Someone's not doing their job properly!
Perhaps this should be followed up with another question:"Do we know if any of the thousands of immigrants from the EU and beyond have a criminal record, and have there been any checks on those working with children and the vulnerable?"
Sorry to be a little 'grass knoll' about this, but has it occurred to anyone that someone with an axe to grind in the Home Office and knowing full well Reid's overarching ambition to be PM, decided to 'drop him in it' as they say. Just a thought
As one of Mr. Blair's most loyal allies Mr. Reid has now been in charge of many ministries.
He has had an undistinguished career in all of them.
It's about time Mr. Blair put people in charge who were capable first and Blairite last. Unfortunately, Mr. Blair has run pout of these capable people.
Time for change at the top. May or June isn't soon enough.
More chaos from this Goverment.
Just what have they done in the last nine years apart from involve us in a war that nobody in their right senses wanted? They have taken the 'Great' out of Britain and are not fit to govern and all we have is the prospect of Brown as PM and with it a very bleak future.
Let the people decide on their future and go to the country as soon as possible
How about a database of incompetent Home Secretaries? Blunkett, Clarke, Reid, ... Quite a collection, now.
Setting aside the issue of ministerial incompetence (and this government seems to have it in spades), the system has huge gaps in it; the CRB's ability to check on the criminal records of immigrants is severely hampered by not only lack of cooperation but also lack of detailed records in many countries.
If, for instance, you came here from Romania and lived for a year in Norwich, your record whilst in Norwich would be verified but it is highly unlikely that your previous details in Romania could be checked. In this case the CRB would still issue you with a clean disclosure.
For this reason, the value of a clean bill of health from the CRB for someone who has lived here for less than 5 years is questionable.
Mr Reid has lost ALL credibility.If he has any honour at all, he will resign from the Government.
In any company the CEO is (usually)the person with responsibility to their Chairperson and Board and thence to the (share)owners.
In Government the Minister is the Chairperson and the CEO the head of the Departnment but custom has dictated the Minister shoulders the blame for Departmental failure. That has let off the hook those responsibile for failure and the Home Office over the last ten years has a rotten record, so who were its Heads?
Time for removal of position, pension and honours for the failing Heads of Government Departments.
As our Prime Minister prepares to evacuate himself from Downing Street, I for one will sigh with a sense of enormous relief. His penchant for spreading fear and panic in those of us he sought to control has wrought havoc to the pride of this nation. Those who have expressed their disquiet at what is happening now includes a Military Defence Chief and a well respected and leading Church Bishop. As the soporific vapours of make-believe puff from the ventricles of Whitehall, orchestrated by the misguided Mr Blair we are all expected to quiver. Like some malevolent beekeeper he has plagued us with his little smoking canister and facial grimace for much too long.
When will this Government, from the Prime Minister down, stop blaming someone else for their own incompetance? Always blame somebody but not me, seems to be the watchword.
Also, when will the Prime Minister ANSWER a question instead of dodging the issue?
hi nick happy new year
i agree with that blair was on the back foot an so was reid, david cameron did very well today
i wanna give you breaking news which properly you already know
but peers in the house of lords hae just defeated the goverment on the mental health bill by a majority of 106
When I was a boy ('60s) there was a view along the lines of - 'Thank goodness the Civil Service runs the country, not the politicians.' It now is quite apparent than one is as incompetent as the other.
Predictably, Reid has wheeled out ID cards as the solution to this problem.
Of course, foreign visitors wouldn't have ID cards of the UK flavour on arrival, and their UK ID database entry would have their criminal records associated with them until the Home Office had processed the paperwork.
Why don't civil servants spent more time doing their jobs, and less time in IT company sponsored seminars allowing themselves to be sold panaceas.
Things can be done today, at little cost to solve these problems. Why is Reid harping on about a dying scheme still?
John Reid is not fit for purpose. Politics are more important than proper Government for Labour.
It is one thing after another. How can we trust a Government that wants to implement ID cards, when it cannot tell how many sex offenders we have, how many prisoners are on the run and how many illegal immigrants there are in the UK?
John is finished anyway, he is guaranteed to lose his current seat due to the closure of the local A&E. But no doubt Labour will parachute him elsewhere.
He is a poor politician.
we know labour are useless and we know that the civil service is useless. You get what you deserve. We the people have to take action. The 8th deadly sin is apathy. Its more prevalent today than ever. Excuse the cliche. Are you part of the problem or part ofthe solution.
I agree with the comments made that this recent revelation will undoubtedly damage the government. However, I think a more common sense approach needs to prevail than just blaming the Home Secretary.
If anyone is in charge of a very large and complex organization (with the responsibility to look after the whole country) how could we expect 'the boss' to know everything that goes on in the Department. Any Chief Executive in an organization is reliant on his/her deputies to provide information.
Nevertheless, the Home Office does need to put its house in order and after the last few fiasco's I agree that heads should role.
If the HS did ask at the beginning of his tenure if there were such problems and was advised that there were not (when plainly there were), is this a case of gross incompetence on the part of his advisors, or was this politically motivated?
I really am sick to death with this incompetent, sleazy, lying bunch of sharks that run this once-great country of ours.
All i can say to bully-boy John Reid is that actions speak louder than words. How hollow his boast that he would sort out the Home Office in 100 days sounds now.
The only reason this group of misfits get away with it is that Cameron's useless bunch are no better.
Surely the most significant effect of t his latest crisis is that it finally rules out any possibility of John Reid standing for the labour leadership and premiership later this year.He is clearly going to be far too busy sorting out the mess in the hjome office until well after the time of the leadership election!So I think we can asume that the smug look on Gordon Browns face is getting smugger by the day!
The Civil Service is notoriously conservative (with both a small and a capital C). It has also notoriously never been significantly held to account for any of its failings. It has therefore historically always been possible for the senior Mandarins to make any progressive or left-leaning government look bad.
Re Barnacle Bill's contribution timed at 4:46pm, he mentioned 'NuLabor' - which I initially misread as 'Nullabor', but I suppose the the World's largest expanse of treeless plain (in Oz) is rather like the wasteland of New Labour's efforts to see the wood for the trees.
In both cases, any surviving 'life' hides under a rock, whilst arid winds blow over the remains of those travellers who did not make it.
Will John Read be the next corpse in the Home Office?
I've got an inclination to agree with Stephen Hatton (#44).
The way Dr Reid went steaming into the Home Office kicking and cursing everyone and everything to do with it, probably motivated some well-placed dissidents to bide their time in order to get their own back.
I think he can knock his Prime Ministership ambitions on the head anyway!
Are heads going to roll? I caught that lunchtime TV politics programme. (I think you were on it)? I was left with the impression that the heads just rolled across the road to the Bank of England.
All we have had from this goverment for the past 9 years is incompetence at all levels.Higher tax and waste of taxpayers money.No longer the county it once was!
I've just turned 18, making me able to vote.
With such cock ups as this, what incentive do I have that voting will make a blind bit of difference?
I'm pretty sure also that before the Iraq war, a lot of people in the UK said "no" and he didn't bother to listen to us.
The results speak for themselves.
I have absolutely no confidence or faith in the government anymore.
The Home Secretary is the head of the Home Office; therefore he and he alone is responsible for making sure that his department of state is functioning correctly.
Under this Labour government the country is degenerating into a banana republic.
God help us!
Colin Cross
Its easy for John Reid to be a big mouth and criticise Civil Servants - who have no right of reply. The question now is - I John Reid fit for purpose as Home Secretary
Whatever possessed the good Doctor into thinking that he could succeed Blair in the first place? Delusions of granduer and some!
Mr Reid was honest when he said he did not know,and had ordered an enquiry.No minister before has ever admited to a mistake.It is time now for Mr Reid to sort out the Home Office Dept that deals With Victim Support this is a Charity which is funded by the Home Office and it again is not fit for purose.It needs a thorough investigation from top to bottom.A thoughly incompetence organisation.
Just who is running this circus? The Home Office is not fit for purpose... neither is John Reid so what has he got that Charles Clark hasn't, should he not be sacked as well?
Why isn't the boss (TB) not seeing that things are run properly and that his ministers are doing their job properly?
Like everything else no ones fault and no one's to blame.
David Smith
Leigh, Lancs
I remain confident that John Reid is the best candidate to replace Prime Minister Blair when he steps down from office, and will make a clear headed, firm, and right thinking Prime Minister himself. Only a man of his qualities and calibre stands a chance of breaking the back of political, institutional, and commercial cynicism. There is nothing about this difficulty that changes my mind about that.
Britain needs a fresh start. Downing Streets strategy unit, in my estimation, is one of the sharpest operators in play today. Their analysis of situations and proposed solutions is as good as it gets. If you want better, off hand, I can’t think of anyone delivering anything approaching their calibre at the moment. With John Reid leading from the front the best, as they say, is yet to come.
Some people may complain about Prime Minister Blair and, yes, his governance has seen its share of mistakes, but the overall gains have been considerable, and the general policy drift, changes of thinking, and challenging of vested interest is beginning to bite. He may have started poorly and fallen but I feel a real zing in the air. I guess, that’s why so many complain. They’re jealous or scared.
11-1-2007.
What we need is a reform of the HOUSE OF COMMONS,it is not the MPS that run the COUNTRY but the CIVIL SERVANTS.
Brown stated he will give power back to the people,a joke if ever there was one.
When PM BLAIR GOES we should have a GENERAL ELECTION and the people should decide who should run the country,one only hoped if that MIRICAL Happens we need more independant MPS standing.
A >H >BUTLER
I thought "New Labour" as promised, ten years ago, would be something really NEW, but it appears to have all the old tory failings, only on a much wider scale. I thought repeats of "Yes Minister" were classic comedy, but have now become more of a reality check! Do these ministers, & government spokespersons realise how low their reputation has fallen, or is it a case of not caring, e.g. a "take the salary & run" attitude, as they know that a Brown led administration will struggle to achieve "Opposition" status come the next General Election?
ACPO have stated that sent a letter to the Police Minister (Tony McNulty) in October about the difficulties they were having with the exchange of criminal records across the EU. However John Reid claimed he was unaware of the same problem. Unless ACPO lied in their claim, this either indicates that the relations between ministers within the Home Office is 'not fit for purpose' (to use John Reid's apt phrase) or John Reid has just lied to parliament. In either case John Reid should be sacked. The only question is whether the reason for the sacking is incompetence or lying to parliament.
Having just watched 'Gerry Robinson v The NHS' or words to that effect, I think I can understand why our Civil Service is so dodgy in places.
I suspect that the Home Office is too complex for any one mandarine to fully understand, that there is a fealing of impossibility of change, and a frantic buck passing from one functionary to another in a department publically labelled as 'failing' and 'unsuitable for purpose'
I suspect that politicians of all parties are only told what they directly ask, and do not have errors flagged up pro-actively, As that would prove tricky for the beaurocrats.
Sounds like time to break it up and start again with some new mandarines.
Dear Nick
I do not know what all the fuss is about, the Home Office to which ever political party is in office, could not careless about what happens to the British Public.
When you study history, you will realise, thatnothing has changed since Robin Hoods days.Propaganda, has anethetised The British people to think we have the Greatest Democracy in the world, but that is far from the trueth. The Establishment starts to whinge when it gets caught out, and thats a lot recently, under the rank amateurism of labour MPs.
The Home Office functions purely to stop the people from getting at the Establisment, it defends the establishmentarian values, its first line of defence is the police who keep law and order for it, the second line of defence is MI5 etc.The people just do not count, in real terms.
You work for one of the governments largest intelligence gathering machines, and since free speech is condemned by the Govenors, it confirms evrything about, the interaction with the public.If 100,000 British people died tomorrow through what ever, the only people who would care are the relatives, "right or wrong?"
Put simply, we do not care and that is evident by the way we treat our elderly, and our children.No Sir, Britain is not a caring nation, we do not look after our own.
Re Simon's comment; I don't think any sensible person would imagine that all mistakes would cease if the colour of the Government changed.
The problem with the 'spin' and 'lies' as you put it, is that this Government has been caught time and time again twisting and turning to avoid admissions of responsibility.
In the early years the usual answer (sometimes justifiably) was to lay the blame at the door of the previous Tory administration.
Where this tactic was thought not to be viable, whiter-than-white Tone was wheeled out to assure everyone he's a 'pretty straight kinda guy'.
That worked for a while, particularly when coupled with the 'it's time to draw a line under this and move on' approach.
Recently though (maybe since the demise of one A.Campbell Esq.?) the only bright idea left in the box seems to be getting bad news out as quietly as possible and hope no one notices.
I must point out I am no Tory or Lib Dem fan either - I treat all politicians with the respect they deserve. (!)
Firstly, the last honourable resignation was Lord Peter Carrington who resigned from the Foreign Office when Argentina invaded the Falklands. He did not know about the danger of invasion as the intelligence reports were in the Foreign Office but hidden on a junior officials desk. He resigned anyway.
Secondly, those above who have reacted to the news by blaming civil servants, should now reflect on the news that a letter from ACPO on this issue was sent to ministers and acknowledged by a junior minister last year. We do not know the content, however it is suggested that if the letter had been read then questions should have been asked that would have clarified the situation. The letter also suggested that JR should be briefed.
I think JR is responsible as his management style may stop officials and junior ministers from telling him things as he has made a career out of being 'angry'. If that management style has stopped this issue being addressed with him, then he should consider his position and consider doing the honourable duty.
However, the way this government functions is by refusing to take the blame for anything, denying knowledge of anything to do with the issue, attacking anyone who raises a difficult issue and of course spinning the news.
For Nick and those always critical of the government and the civil service
The department receives a notification from, say France, that the John Smith who was convicted of sexual abuse of a young child has now been released from jail. Thats it, no more information , no passport number, no nothing.
What should the department now do?
Instruct the police to check and interview all John Smiths in the Country to find him.
Add a John Smith (unknown) to the Data Base, so that all John Smiths are refused jobs just in case they are the one.
Place the file in the pending tray, waiting further information.
What would you do?
Me I would put it in the pending tray beause, the vast majority of child abuse is by close family members, who are not on any Data Base.
I think the comment should have been "I'm John Reid this Government is not fit for purpose"
After what Blair & Co has subjected the public to over the last 9 years he is now bailing out before his ship hits the iceberg.
I really think the public have had enough and certainly do not want a Scotsman for a Prime Minister so 'hang the expence and lets have a general election'
Does this mean that in theory Gary Glitter could serve his sentence in Vietnam or wherever he is and then come back to the UK and the information will not be entered on the police computer because Vietnam is non EU and disclosure is only voluntary?
Quite apart from Joan Ryan's being caught out declaring the ministers knew nothing about it until this week, when she had replied herself to ACPO in October. Someone send her a couple of Pretorians, please.
Reid,McNulty and Ryan happen to be Labour ministers and have therefore been selected by the Labour party to do the job of government. This issue is about ability to do the job. They have been proven to be incompetent therefore they should resign or be sacked. This Labour government are poor managers, survivng to this point mostly on spin, stealth taxes and the capable skills of the 'old guard' Labour MPs, most of whom have now resigned or died! History will show that Tony Blair's 'revolution' was nothing more than a Trojan horse designed to get the useless but power mad into government.
Re the comment by Tony Jayne. If we are to follow his lead, then surely all we have to do is put everyone on the list of suspects including Tony since most abuse happens in the home. Come to think of it, isn't that why JR is proposing his all powerful biometric ID card. Indeed, let us put a notice saying no one gets in to the country until they are on the database, fingerprints and all. O what a free happy and open society we would all be living in then.
Alternatively, perhaps Tony might want to think a bit more about how daft his explanation of the debacle was in the first place.
Re Tony Jayne.
You could
1) Pile the forms over several years and not do anything about the flimsy lack of information included.
or
2) Change the form quickly to include more information, passports numbers, DOB, etc... I could make the relevant changes using Microsoft word in 5 minutes.
But best stick with the first option eh...
A Fish Rots from the Head downwards - or so the old saying goes. From Blair - or should that be Blur - through John(unfit for purpose)Reid
and the rest of Tony's cronies no-one is prepared to stand up and say enough is enough and start to fire a few of the misinforming/misperforming mandarins who are failing to front up the bad news in order to protect their cushy and lucrative positions. When Ried says the department is not fit for purpose, he has it exactly right, but does he set about ousting the wrongdoers? Not that I have seen in any press reports. This government has GOT to clean up its house now and if that means making some hard choices well sorry but thats why they are there.
It's odd how coverage of this very important subject seems to be getting buried by trivialities (like David Beckham!).
Please, Nick, make sure this subject is pursued publically - the Government must finally be held to account over its mismanagment of the Home Office.
Where has this word "incompetency" come from? It appears in the singular and plural in several posts. It's horrible. Stop it!
The trouble is that this is the first time John Reid has been in a job long enough to account for his failures.
Sadly the only remaining candidates for Home Secretary are the Miliband brothers having sweet talker Tony McNulty already blown his chances twice.
As an ex-offender, I know exactly how 'fit for the purpose' the HO is, and I have suffered from its inability to carry out its functions and to keep up with the backlogs - many of which it contributes to.
As for ACPO, a closed police culture, book-passing and money-grabbing - which is the raison d'etre of senior police officers.
However, one should never believe that it is the HS who ever 'runs' the HO ... it is the senior civil servants who call the shots.
Essentially, the HO ‘servants’ can afford to be incompetent, as it will always be the HS who will carry the can, or the HO, low-ranking employees.
Dr Nigel Leigh Oldfield
Why are all 3 ministers on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ today wearing the same red tie? Are we heading for a general election? Or do they only have one red tie?
There were two other comments that do not relate to my first reply.
On the 10th, the day of this Entry, you had a Radio4 programme at 1600hrs, Decision Time, it is to be Repeated on Saturday at 10:15pm, 2215hrs. And then again, last night, Jan' 11th. another interesting Radio4 prog', broadcast at 1630hrs, In Business, this time with Peter Day, repeated on Sunday at 9:30pm, 2130hrs.
Your programme,Decision Time, about Taxation, Politics and the National Interest. People should be able to guess the order of priority. And then In Business, with Peter Day, about the changes that have taken place and the prospects for the very near future.
To my mind, these two prog's are a must if you have any interest in tomorrow, and at my age, 72, I would make the effort to Advertise These Broadcasts, in a more "in yer face", way.
Well I think they are a must.
Regards, A T Flynn.
Re: Stephen
You and your like want it both ways, you don't want strong government controls but slam into the government about the lack of controls when you think something as gone wrong.
Re: cribology
I could also send a 'cover my backside' letter to the Home Office.
If it was simply a matter of changing a form I'm sure the Police would have done it. After all the Data Base is thier (not the Ministers) responsibility. The problem as I see it is how do you get France and others to send the full information in the first place. Not a five minute job.
This story appeared to simply represent political manipulation of the media by ACPO, using the government's own scaremongering technique. The intimation that money was the cause of the problem, was clearly fake.
Regardless of whether it is the police or government manipulating the media, the fact the ´óÏó´«Ã½ are representing both sides, is not neutrallity. They should be representing the truth and protecting the public from the threat posed by false information.
I would like to point out to Tony that I am all in favour of less, not more government. On this basis, I have not, and will not shout for governments to act when something goes wrong since this will simply lead to more bad legislation. Instead, as is normal in most areas of life, the natural response to a problem is to identify it and take steps to stop it being repeated. Therefore at the point at which the problem was recognised, then the Police, and subsequently the Home Office should have responded. It appears that ACPO did, yet Ministers did not. So why should we adopt Tony's view that nothing could be done about it and therefore no one needs to be held to account?
In the meantime, John Reid and the government are seeking to collect as much detail about each of us and our daily lives as they can (ID cards, phone records, tracking of traffic, etc.). If they can't handle the details of limited numbers of criminals, should we sit back and accept that they are capable of dealing with the majority of the population any more competently? No doubt, someone is currently sitting with a pile of information showing all of the weaknesses in the government plans, but Ministers have never been made aware about these so that's ok then - just carry on regardless.
This from people who protest GITMO. They can't even keep track of their own ordinary criminals. How could their judgement be trusted in matters of international terrorists whose purpose is to destroy society and civilization. And people wonder why America is deaf to Europe. Yammer on Europe for all the good it will do you.
It's funny how this story emerged as John Reid was still considering standing against Gordon Brown in the leadership election.
First a coup attempt, now Brown's pawns have scuppered a serious challenger for the leadership. Who will be Brown's next target?
It is easy to criticize but one should try to put oneself in John Reid's shoes. Here is a minister who is genuinely trying to make a difference as Home Secretary and clean up the back-log left by earlier occupants of this ever-important position. So give him the benefit of the doubt and let him get on with the job. After all he is sincere and streets ahead of his Conservative counterpart.
I was indeed surprised to learn that so many serious offenders came back into the country before their records were given to Immigration Officers. It is essential that all information must be exchanged between officials in both countries. I am not surprised to learn that these files were dumped in a drawer (or drawers) without being actioned -- this happens in many Government Departments!!!
If these ministers had been found in bed with the butler, or having a secreet bottle of Scotch in the filing cabinet, they would be expected to resign.
Something is begining to appear slightly twisted in the Morals of the U.K, when it is o.k to wreck the country, but do not drink, or get caught with the butler/house keeper. whilst you do it.
How come this bafoon is allowed to keep on going and going?
Will someone PLEASE take his gold topped battries out.
Hey Nick , doubt this'll get posted as its not strictly on topic but,
I agree that reform is necessary , but surely isn't that what HMG has been trying to do? The lack of disclosed information is simply another glitch in an unfit system.
On a slight tangent computer gamers have a saying, "Don't read the forums or they'll convince you that the game you were previously enjoying is broken beyond repair."
Having read some of the comments that get posted perhaps some sort of paraphrasement is in order? Some of the views expressed in this forum border on the hilarious in their cynicism.
'Dr' Reid and junior minsters will blame everyone else. Only civil service heads will roll. Reid and his team will get through it without a shit being fired.
What better way to discredit an investigation than by encouraging the finger to point an aide (Ruth Turner) who is believed to be squeeky clean.