A close encounter
There are times when news is so long coming and change is so glacial that we are too bored to look when something truly momentous happens. Today risks being such a day.
Ian Paisley is meeting Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness. "So what?" you yawn at the prospect of more talks about talks after another deadline in Northern Ireland's "peace process" passes without consequence. Wrong. Dead wrong.
The leaders of once-murderous Republicanism and the man who for decades has bellowed "Ulster says No" have never had a meeting. I choose my words carefully. They've been in the same room, they've passed in corridors and, as I shall relate, they bumped into each other in a lift but they have never ever agreed to meet. That decision was Paisley's.
I recall as a young TV producer accompanying Paisley in a lift in 大象传媒 Belfast in 1994. All were nervy. We were escorting him to take part in what - if memory serves me right - was the first ever debate involving both Sinn Fein and the DUP. Actually, though both sides appeared in the same studio they weren't ever there at the same time. What's more, they were kept on different floors of the building to avoid meeting. The lift was the weak link in this carefully worked out plan. On this night it stopped, the doors opened and Paisley and I were confronted by a grinning Adams. "Hello Ian" he beamed. Paisley glowered back as an aide jabbed the button to close the doors. Naturally, they took an age to close. The smile on Adams's face increased.
Earlier that day I had greeted Martin McGuiness as he arrived at the studio. His car looked unusual - too low to the ground. I soon discovered why. This was known as his "two ton Cortina" - the weight coming from its armour plating. When the doors opened heavy metal chain clanked to the ground. The chain was welded to each of the back doors and a heavy lock held them closed - this, it was soon explained to me, was to prevent hijacking or kidnapping.
With all that in mind I laughed out loud this morning when I heard Adams say that he wanted a meeting with Paisley so that together they could stop Westminster from imposing water metering - that's right water metering - on the people of Northern Ireland.
What a meeting. What a day.
PS I was relating the tale of the lift at this morning's Downing Street press briefing when the PM's Official Spokesman Tom Kelly told me that he was on the other side of the lift doors with Adams. At the time he was 大象传媒 Northern Ireland's news editor. He's pretty cautious after seeing too many moments of optimism come and go - remember that thousands of people died in this conflict - but today he could scarcely contain his excitement.
I'm 
Comments
Yes a truly momentous meeting and about time too. I never thought I would see the day when these two, paisley and Adams sat around the same table to talk.Its a bit like the berlin wall coming down another thing I did not think I would witness in my lifetime either. I am 54 and hope now that northern ireland can be governed and life in peace and that our troops can finally come home and leave them to it.
Bill Beeby, dover in kent.
I think the government sneakily introduced the plans to start charging for water in N.I. as an incentive to get the parties back at Stormont. And it has worked.
I find the photograph of Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams sitting next to each other (though, carefully, not at the same table) almost unbelievable.
Everyone has travelled a very, very long way. The journey may have been long, pretty uncomfortable and have demanded a high price from all those travelling, but surely it has been well worth it to achieve the final destination of an inclusive and peaceful political process.
OK, they may still not want to share a lift and they are still very far apart on many matters but nobody has to like or agree with their 鈥渃olleagues鈥 they just have to be willing to work with them.
Ah the irony that we can 'thank' the EU for having made Paisley and Adams meet. Why? Well if it wasn't for the Water Framework Directive and the requirment for cost reflective pricing of water, seperate billing (based on meters) wouldn't be being introduced in NI. Its a policy conundrum thought isn't it - face thousands of euro's a day fine for not introducing the WFD properly but create peace (sort of) in NI...
Why didn't we hit on this years ago?
Ian Paisley is meeting Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness. "So what?" you yawn at the prospect of more talks about talks after another deadline in Northern Ireland's "peace process" passes without consequence. Too right, Nick. Hands up everyone who's sick to death with Northern Ireland and its gaggle of self-seeking, self-righteous prigs masquerading as politicians. I don't believe this will work, any more than any initiatives in Northern Ireland have ever worked for long despite what I believe have been the good intentions of both Labour & Conservative Prime Ministers.
What a day! I was exstatic when I heard the news over the Radio. You're right about people being blas茅 about such an occasion but hopefully this will be a large step toward long lasting peace
A bit like Tom Kelly, I'm normally sceptical about such deals or meetings. But as an atheist UUP, turned DUP voter I am convinced that this will go down as an historic event. Never before has a Unionist leader entered into an agreement with a nationalist/republican party with the backing of the Unionist population. Dr Paisley enjoys such a mandate and has the power to deliver a lasting peace. Whether he can work sufficiently well with others to ensure this occurs is open to debate, but at least this is a very significant first step. From fringe, radical preacher to mainstream political peacemaker. Like him, or loathe him, its been a remarkable journey. Big Ian and Gerry sitting sde-by-side - and agreeing on something! Incredible!
Brilliant article. It truly is a momentus time. One would argue that it is a crowing glory for the conflicting cause of both Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams. To have struggled for so much and finally reach out and and take hold of the peace of our time in the context of a self governing Northern Ireland for republicans and continued membership of the United Kingdom for the unionists is a feat worthy of attention. The rest is left to the annals of devolved democracy which both will benefit from. I truly wish the best for the future of the Northern Irish people. Good luck to you all.
I took one look at the photograph used in your blog and froze. I'm speechless! Paisley and Adams sitting together...that's unheard of!
You're absolutely right to bring attention to this truly momentous day. This is not the same old rhetoric from politicians, this is something that has NEVER happened before, a true sign of progress.
I'm a Catholic man from Fermanagh, but I've got to say a massive thank you to both Gerry Adams AND Ian Paisley. You've given us a lot of hope today!
What's not been clear to me from following the news coverage of this is one crucial detail. If a deal hadn't been reached and the British government had followed through on their threat to close the Assembly, would that have meant the Northern Irish politicians would all have had their salaries stopped? If so, I suspect that is largely responsible for a deal being struck.
Paisley and Adams may be deeply committed to scoring points of each other and generally screwing things up, but if they are like most politicians, if it comes to a choice between that and their own self-interest, then surely there is no contest.
Paisley and Adams once did a TV interview years ago, around late 80s I think, and at the end Paisely sort of stormed off with Adams saying to Paisley "safe home".
"thousands of people died in this conflict "
I love that, "conflict". Wouldn't that be better as "terrorist campaign carried out in a democratic country where other Celtic Nationalists are happy to make their arguments peacefully"?
And before somebody says "Ah yes, but Unionists killed too" - no Unionist party connected with terrorism ever got a significant share of the vote, nor have mainstream Unionist politicians ever sought to excuse terrorism. Remember that the early release of terrorists (which was BTW against international law) was demanded by Nationalists and only reluctantly agreed to by Unionists under the implicit but clear threat of further violence.
"Conflict", mmmmm, what a choice of words!
I'm also cautiously optimistic, and I share your amusement that both sides have chosen the water metering as the issue that will initially bring them together.
I'm curious, as a lapsed historian (10 years in the IT industry and not enough reading)... I've been trying to think of other occasions where two such ideologically opposed parties have formed governments together. I can't think of many.
Comment 1 ...
I'm pretty sure that Adam's et al do not take any monies from westminister, Queens shilling and all that, if so, where does this money go?
Sometimes it's comforting when momentous news passes us by - it perhaps means that what has happened is what everyone assumes should happen and what would have been difficult or painful to swallow is now the accepted wisdom.
Hopefully, NI can now move on.
After decades of conflict, years of painstaking talks and endless breakdowns, real peace is about to break out.
I recall my visits to Northern Ireland in 1986/87 and the feeling that nothing could get better and this is how it's going to be. Yet, today, the world has changed.
I also remeber the warm welcome I received wherever I went and it is wonderful that peace is returning.
So we're supposed to get excited about the fact that Ulster's politicians have started functioning slightly beyond their usual mental age of six? Well pardon me.
It can be said that this is unbelievable and truely historic.
Everyone knew the pair would meet at some point in the near future with devolution seen to be likely to happen, but not today.
The DUP have pulled a good move here.
With the Government expecting the nomination of ministers today, which it has to be said no one in Northern Ireland expected, this meeting is suprising.
I personally, as someone living in N.I. have full-faith in the DUP leadership.
Devolution can work, but Sinn Fein have to continue working towards creating confidence within the Unionist community in backing the police and law and order. So far we have just seen words supplemented by minor action. Time will tell. The ball remains in their court.
I hope for a stable and properous Northern Ireland within the U.K.
I also hope that we can move to a more acceptable form of Government as seen in Scotland and Wales, or indeed much of Europe.
D'Hondt will not provide effective and efficient Government. Its effect will be minimal. However its main drive/function is to 'unite' dividing sides.
The DUP will work with Sinn Fein. But only because they'll have to!
I personally will have to swallow very hard as a Unionist to see McGuinness as my 'Deputy Prime Minister'.
In my view this is 'unacceptable' coalition Government and one that will have it limitations in practice.
I have some comfort with the fact that Sinn Fein have accepted Northern Ireland, as part of the Kingdom and relief that the murder and bloodshed has come to halt.
I just hope that should Sinn Fein and Republicans step out of line that Westminster will take action, not like before in 2002 with the spy ring and the Castlereagh break-in.
Sinn Fein have got off with far too much in recent years and I commend the DUP for their perseverance in 'getting it right'.
Andrew, Belfast
File under: "Don't count your chickens..."
Okay, so this is a truly momentous day which we have waited many years for, BUT, why do we have to wait another SIX WEEKS?
It strikes me that Mr Paisley is being rather childish with his posturing and playing to camera, in essence saying that the DUP will do WHAT the British Government wants...but not WHEN they were asked to do it.
Lets have another look at this newslog on 8 May and see what people are saying then...or will we have to wait a few more weeks / months / years after that before we have something worthwhile to talk about?
Incidentally, having worked as a civil servat under both local and direct rule I have to confess that from a purely work perspective I have greater respect for direct rule ministers, who focus on the job in hand rather than gamesmanship.
The fact remains that we have chosen to vote for local politicians...so we will get the government we deserve!
Alex Swanson
"...nor have any mainstream Unionist politians ever sought to excuse terrorism"
You may say that, but Paisley has been critisised for inciting terrorism, not least by people from the Loyalist community. It seems as long as you carefully distance yourself from the violence...well that's ok then.
It seems odd to me that in a country which is not a despotic dictatorship, one man alone, Ian Paisley has the fate of almost two million people in his hands and depending on his sentiments which have never been particularly amicable towards compromise, the results could go either way. Is today the day? We'll see.
I've never been able to figure out why the IRA stopped its terrorist campaign. Usually fanatics like that never give up until they are soundly defeated. It seemed to me that they were winning or at least they weren't losing. I have no doubt that while it may be technically true that the Unionist leaders were not directly involved in the counter terrorism, many of them turned a blind eye to it and quietly winked their approval.
It's been a long time coming... but i believe a deal has been agreed & seen to be agreed for May...I could not understand why "Water"? appeared in the text & audio reporting...so now I know... it's in the corner time for me!
Blair has his Legacy.. lets not forget that John Major's efforts kick-started the Good Friday agreement & should also be applauded.
Undoubtably this is a momentous day but I think it is important that people remember that our politican's behaviour in delaying devolution again is inexcusable and highly disappointing.
The electorate made it clear that we want an Executive and Assembly that would get back to work immediately. I can see no real justification for this, another delay.
I'm disappointed that Blair, Hain and Sinn Fein agreed - they should have refused and pressed ahead with plan B.
Alex Swanson
Hopefully outdated opinions like yours are a thing of the past. Here's hoping for a genuine chance at peace in our lifetime. Move on Alex.
I find it hard to stomach the patronising back slapping by British people in this blog. Adams and Paisley are not preoccupied with a medieval quasi-religous/ethnic/tribal conflict, as is constantly portrayed in the British media by people like Nick Robinson. They are product of British imperialism that created a failed political entity and promoted sectarianism both overtly and covertly to mask their own selfish intentions. Just like they did in Israel and Iraq (to name just two). As a result of their actions thousands of people have lost their lives in Ireland over the last 40 years, tens of thousands in Israel over the last 50 years and hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq over the last 5 years.
So let me apologise when I take great offense when Nick Robinson refers to people, who rightly or wrongly fought for the freedom of their own community from great oppression, 'as the leaders of once murderous republicanism'.
As a footnote the ANC were responsible for more deaths in apartheid South Africa than the PIRA were during the Irish conflict, yet 'liberal' British journalists do not refer to Nelson Mandella as once murderous despite the fact that the ANC do not make any distinction between their conflict and that of the PIRA. I wonder why... maybe their far enough away.
I am reading your blog with my sixth form students in class in Northern Ireland. As part of the last generation who managed a couple of violence free years as a teenager in Derry I have only started believing today that the war is over !
I find it hard to stomach the patronising back slapping by British people in this blog. Adams and Paisley are not preoccupied with a medieval quasi-religous/ethnic/tribal conflict, as is constantly portrayed in the British media by people like Nick Robinson. They are product of British imperialism that created a failed political entity and promoted sectarianism both overtly and covertly to mask their own selfish intentions. Just like they did in Israel and Iraq (to name just two). As a result of their actions thousands of people have lost their lives in Ireland over the last 40 years, tens of thousands in Israel over the last 50 years and hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq over the last 5 years.
So let me apologise when I take great offense when Nick Robinson refers to people, who rightly or wrongly fought for the freedom of their own community from great oppression, 'as the leaders of once murderous republicanism'.
As a footnote the ANC were responsible for more deaths in apartheid South Africa than the PIRA were during the Irish conflict, yet 'liberal' British journalists do not refer to Nelson Mandella as once murderous despite the fact that the ANC do not make any distinction between their conflict and that of the PIRA. I wonder why... maybe their far enough away.
Thank God. I am praying this works out well for everyone, for the sake of all the people in Northern Ireland. Too much misery, for too long, to too nice a people.
All the best from Delaware, U.S.A.
Truly momentous. Now we must see if they have the energy to put the People in the forefront of their minds and work effectively for a better quality of life for all.
Can this be a true model for long running conflicts? Are the Politicians of the extremist divided positions, the only people who can have currency in a negotiated settlement?
Which other conflicts can learn from this?
No doubt this will also be part of Blair's Legacy and frankly one of his finest moments.
As Thatcher once said its a funny old world
I think it is all good and well getting excited about this news today but lets not forget the real work will start in 8 wks.So lets see how it goes before one side or the other throws the dummy out of the pram.
How can we be happy at the progress being made in NI when this news is surpassed by a war in Iraq.
Point of information - for Nick and commentators - we are not being offered water meters. Only pensioners will get those at first. The rest will be charged according to house values, regardless of number of occupants and regardless of (unmeasured) consumption - hardly an incentive to conserve. Let's hope our new accountable ministers can deal with the problem.
Ciaran, your victimhood is admirable, and compares favourably with the current vogue in the Islamist world. Blaming the whole thing on "British Imperialism" is all well and good, but I should like to point out that any referendum between about 1975 and the present day taken in England, Wales, and Scotland, is likely to have opted to pull British troops the hell out of there and let you all carry on killing each other to your hearts' content.
I echo the sentiments of Ciaran.
The UK government repeats the same mistakes time and time again. They occupy a country, hand power to one group and then spend years trying to contain the fighting when the deposed, indiginous population fights back.
The British Government owe the people of Ireland an apology. For taking the country by force, by allowing state sponsored terrorism to flourish (remember the British were colluding with Loyalist paramilitaries arranging the murders of dissidents who were, let's not forget, British subjects) and for supporting a despotic regime for far too many years.
Please forgive me when I don't get too excited by the notition of Tony's legacy. Or by the concept that Paisley has finally found the maturity at 81 to participate in democracy and inclusivity.
Ciaran has a point...but it seems hard to lay much of the blame for a historic failure at the feet of this (or the last) Government, who had to start with the position as it was in 1997. I think that given that, they have done a pretty good job of shepherding and egging on the politicians to a series of historic agreements - todays being the latest.
However his words stand as a stark warning for the impact of our Iraq folly. That one was certainly very largely this Government's fault - and it is depressing to think it could be hundreds of years before the bloodshed and division in Iraq is put right.
One should always be pleased at progress but just what is happened here? Should Texas be governed by shared power from Washington and Mexico City? Should Israel share its government with Hamas?
Originally the people of the counties of Ulster (Northern Ireland if you please, but which is a bit confusing for the historically uneducated)chose to be ruled by London, whilst those of the southern counties chose to be ruled by Dublin.
Good success to the peoples of Ulster and may Ireland stay out of the mix.
Ciaran (number 25)
From an outsider's point of view, half the problem in Northern Ireland has been the entrenched tendency of people to look backwards rather than forwards.
Yup, you could complain about British imperialism, loyalists could complain about republican terrorism, heck, if you went far enough back, the Welsh could complain about Scots from Ireland raiding their coasts in the late 5th century. That doesn't get people anywhere 'though - a fact acknowledged by the ANC when they established the Truth and Re-conciliation Committee to draw a line under the past, rather than to rake it up.
The past was what got Northern Ireland to where it is now - a point where people (and by the looks of this Blog not just us back slapping British people)are excited and encouraged by the meeting of two people. If the people of Northern Ireland are to have their right to a peaceful future, people need to be more worried about that future than about the past.
Ciaran's comments up above are more insightful than he knows - his doctrinaire, "blame-the-Brits" response encapsulates quite neatly the kind of inflexibility that parties on both sides of the conflict have had to overcome, in order to make progress of the sort we are witnessing today.
Every great journey starts with the smallest of steps. The ultimate destination of this journey is one that will bring a better life to all those of Northern Ireland (hopefully some day a united Ireland). Today is just another step in this long and winding journey. Let us hope that Ian Paisley and Mr Adams remember that they were elected by their constituents to devolve Northern Ireland. The ultimate goal is to provide a safe and prosperous place for all citizens to live. God speed to all.
PS: This is a Great Day
Chuck Hunter
Stow, OH, USA
Congratulations to all politicians involved in this long process, Europe and the entire World are looking, and learning. I just hope now will be time for a real peace process in the Basque Country and the last armed Western European conflict is resolved around a table and no with more jail, arrest, bombs and torture. Today, for example the Batasuna leader Arnaldo Otegi and the president of the 3 Provinces, JJ Ibarretxe, are in court... due to a political meeting they held!
Yes this is positive step of many,faltering before,but at last it is looking hopeful.The negative responses on this website obviously do not fully grasp the involvement of up and coming generations' futures of a freer life which we take as granted in other parts of the United Kingdom.Everyone to their opinion,but,the negative contributors are not living on the same planet as me and definitely not in Northern Ireland.If prayer works I'll say two!
Andrew (Belfast), your post is a depressing insight into dup electorate thinking.
May i suggest that we could all breath an even bigger sigh of relief if loyalist paramilitaries would disarm - or even agree to disarm.
Interesting how you chose to totally omit this in your post. I wonder why?
We still have quite a long way to go and it is imperative that unionist people and politicans stop ignoring this problem and insist that these groups disarm immediately.
What has happened today certainly is, in a symbolic sense, momentous. But now the real work begins. And there will always be dissenting factions on both sides who will never wish to see conventional politics succeed. Let's hope that when put to the test, as it undoubtedly will be, over the coming months and years all the politicians can continue to look to the future not the present and certainly not the terrible past.
Well I'm pleased there is some prospect for peaceful stability in Northern Ireland. However, when I see or hear any of the various clans postulating their sectarian perspectives I find I have little in common with any of them.
What chance of the English having a say as to whether we would like to be totally devolved from Northern Ireland? I really don't care whether it becomes Independent or joins with the Republic, that's for them to decide. I just don't want to feel that I am in some way responsible for or associated with any of them.
This is a great day for Northern Ireland. I've lived here for 17 years - when I was a child, it was hard for my Mum to get into town for Christmas presents because of the threat of IRA bombs. I also remember returning home from a holiday ecstatic, only to find that the IRA had planted a bomb right behind our house, blowing open the doors, windows and causing overall damage to the whole house.
This is a sign of how far we have come since then. I applaud both Ian Paisley and gerry Adams for having the courage to throw any previous conflicts aside, and work towards a better and more peaceful future for us all. Our hope is in God's hand to bring us through to devolution, and many years of peace of prosperity.
Andrew.
Ciaran's comments above raised a smile,a blast from the past,blaming the Brits pretending the Unionist culture in Ireland does not exist.
The Republican movement did the same thing for decades of course until Gerry lead them out of the wilderness.
And I would love to ask Dr Paisley to point out the differences between his agreement and the power sharing Sunningdale agreement of 1973 which he helped to bring down....
But that would be being curlish.We should just rejoice that they have finally seen the light!
Ken from Texas
The province of "Ulster" is larger than the 6 counties included in the "statelet" of Northern Ireland. Therefor, "Ulster," in reference to the 6 counties, is incorrect.
Comparing Texas to Israel is just silly.
Ciaran, no need to apologize for being offended by Nick Robinson, you are in good company; me, President Bush, and the drunk at the bar who threw a plate of curried chips at him because he didn't bring the troops home from Iraq yet. By the way Nick, when ARE you going to bring them home? (Now how do you suppose a drunk at a bar would know Nick Robinson is a big "mucky-muck" in the British something or other...unless he told the guy himself?)
Funny, I haven't heard even one mention of the efforts of Senator George Mitchell in all of this. Isn't that one of the steps in any project, praising the uninvolved, forgetting and ignoring those who were responsible?
Seems to me all of the people involved were to blame. The IRA could have surrendered years and years ago instead of waiting until they did. Why now? Would the Unionists have agreed to the same terms 20 or 30 years ago if they had? I doubt it. I think people need to get tired of war. So far, neither the Iraqis nor the Palestinians have. They need to suffer a lot more before they do.
I don't think anyone should be proud or ashamed of history they had no hand in making, or where they were born, having had no choice in the matter either. They should just accept it as fact and move on. People alive in Britain today had nothing to do with the piratical empire their ancestors created to subjugate and rob the world. When do you let go of the past? I guess for some people, hatred inspired by lore handed down for four hundred years is all they have to live for. I know as an American, it's not imprudent for me to keep a watch out for the Redcoats...at least once in awhile. After all, it hasn't even been two hundred and fifty years yet.
Ken from Texas - the start of problems with NI (rather than the 9 counties of Ulster)could be drawn back to Home Rule ; where originally half of the counties in Northern Ireland were forced, rather than decided to be ruled Stormont and ultimately London.
But looking forward Power Sharing by the 8th May - just in time for Tony's departure? Perhaps this helped sweeten the deal for the government.
Whilst not changing my views on wanting England to be free of Northern Ireland asap I feel the need to input some historical facts.
People can check for themselves under the Wikipedia item Lords of Ireland and other more detailed sources. When the primarily Norman King Henry II of England landed with an army of 4,000 at Waterford in October 1171, he came at the behest of Pope Adrian 1v, carrying as his authority, the Papal Bull Laudabiliter, by which the Roman Pontiff claimed the right to bestow Ireland as a gift to the English King, on condition that he suppress the ancient Bible-believing Celtic or Culdee Church, and bring the island and its people into submission to Rome. Primarily the Pope didn't like the original Irish church, especially the fact that it refused to pay homage and taxes to Rome.
This doesn't of course excuse what happened later when the English devolved from Rome and then installed a whole load of Scottish protestant fundamentalists, primarily in the North, let alone what happened throughout the 20th Century. But it does matter that people get their facts straight and it was a Papal invasion by a king who was much more Norman/French than he was English that started this situation.
I agree with Nick, this day has the possibility of just slipping under the radar as 'yet another NI negotiations day'. But it is so much more and must be counted as one of the three most important days since the Easter Rising nearly 100 years ago.
A groundbreaking achievement has been made. I just hope that Northern Ireland is now on a straight and level path towards true peace and stability... Paisley and Adams may have finally succeeded in holding a meeting, but can they actually work with each other?
I think the DUP Executive were wise to opt for a 6 week delay before entering into power-sharing with Sinn Fein. They have to look to life after Paisley. If they hadn't been seen to drive the hardest bargain possible, his successor would be doomed to be "Trimbled" sooner or later by hardline rivals.
Am I also being cynical to suspect that it suits everyone to defer finalising the economic support package until after the Scottish elections on May 3rd. If a Labour government in London made any further concessions to Belfast which were denied to Edinburgh, they would be playing into the hands of the Scots Nats.
I for one am glad that this is boring news. Exciting news in NI would be bombs going off and running gun battles at funerals. In fact, if I recall, that used to be boring news it was so common.
The armed campaign is over. Catholics are no longer discriminated against. The politics is boring and approaching normality. Who cares if it's not a day that people are out in the streets for? What matters is the outcome.
I so wish my father was alive today to see what has happened in NI.
He would have been thrilled to see the possibility of equal rights. Many like him had to leave their home to come to England to get an education, a job, a house and raise a family. How sad that it had to cost so many lives.
Good luck to the people of north!
Thanks for this report Nick.
Today, by completing the process of coming together and stopping the bloodshed, the factions in Northern Ireland have set an example for all the peoples of the World.
If they can do it - anyone can.
I served in Northern Ireland from 1985-1987.I now receive a War Pension from the intensity of the fighting during Thatchers signing of The Anglo Irish Agreement. (Shot at by both sides .... the irony is not lost on Me)
Thousands dead and wounded from all sides and THEY are arguing about water rates !!!
27th March 1985, a young Father killed in action, Tony Dacre I'll remember. The sheer waste from all sides astounds Me.
I have more respect for PIRA than the Politicians.
A question from an American:
In Northern Ireland, are Protestant and Catholic children educated together in schools?
If not, how is the segregation maintained and justified?
once murderous republicanism
I really don't like it when people use words this way. Once freedom fighting killers, once catholic protecting gunmen etc etc
I pray that this is really a 'historic day', let us hope that some of the comments posted here are not the mainstream view in Northern Ireland, it is time to stop using the religious card and to stop blaming the British.
Of course, the DUP, Sinn Fien, Westminister and Dublin all share the blame for the hatred and muder which has robbed so many people of a normal life, now is the time though to work together and ensure that longterm peace is achieved.
Once again we have that great irony of history - it takes the politicians with the most entrenched opposing views to bring the settlement. The leaders of the DUP and Sinn Fein could do what those of the UUP and SDLP were unable to do despite all their good intentions.
Perhaps if we price the water high enough, we might actually see a united Ireland in our lifetime!
I must admit that on such an optimistic day the lwevel of hatred still clear in peoples voices. I'm 25 so much of the bloodest part of this conflict was before my adulthood.
Ciaran, I can admit that the British government has in the past done a lot wrong in NI, which is undeniable. But living in the present I think there is a genuine thirst for peace. Just I hold no grudge for the Germans bombing my Grandads chippy, I hope the republican people can do the same. Brit bashing is only poking at an open wound. Do boths side want this to heal?
I really cloudn't care one bit who governs NI as long as peace is the result and a pride, from all sides, in your national identity. But maybe because I'm English its easy for me to say, so that is for the people directly involved to sort out.
Outside of Northern Ireland very few of the original figures of hate remain. Maybe thats why international will has been so strong since the mid 90's and yet so slow domestically. I think the next generation of leaders in NI will be the true bringers of peace.
I realise that I have a certain naivety but isn't refreshing that someone can admit there limitation, unlike some political figures involved.
Now, where did I leave that olive branch.......
The people of NI got there before the politicians. House prices up 40%
last year & doubled in the border towns. The conflict is over the voters won't let it slip back. The two leading boyos Ian & Gerry can huff & puff later on but there is no going back. Its the economy stupid
it worked in the South & they've finally caught on in the north - I speak as one who left in the seventies & watched in amazement as this small country(?) take so long to finally overcome their differences. Well done for today & well done Tony & Bertie for taking the difficult decisions to make it happen
Well, Brad from Aust, I would suggest to you that the only intrasigent and backwards statement would have been the original reference to the IRA as "once murderous," and that Ciaran was merely reciprocating the sentiment.
Such an adjective and such a comment s yours refuses to acknowledge certain DUP members slightly-less-documented courtship with terrorism and violence, or the British Army and government's ongoing affiliation with the same. Both are perhaps even more vilifiable to Nationalists as the IRA campaigns are to outsiders.
To Ciaran at number 25 (and 27):
Odd that you should use Israel as an 'example', given that it was a protectorate area under the League of Nations. Exactly what point were you trying to make?
As a proud Irishman I'm happy to see that at last it appears peace and stability is about to be a reality in Ireland. Everybody in Ireland, North and South as well as people in Britain have paid a high price to get to this point, some will say its a price worth paying other will say its not and nobody can claim to be in the absolute right! In my own selfish way I'm glad to see that future generations will not have to grow up in fear, be it in Dublin, Monaghan, Derry, Belfast, London, Manchester or any other city in Ireland or Britain. But most of all I'm happy because over the years I've come to realise that Catholic, Protestant, Unionist, Nationalist etc etc we all have a lot more in common than we do in difference, lets get on with living together and accpeting and respecting our differences, future generations made up of my children and yours will hopefully ask how we lived like we did instead of how we should be living. Thank you to all politicians regardless of their political allegances who made today possible and a reality, pick up the reigns of government and govern to improve the lives of the people of all backgrounds.
I heard this on the radio, driving back from a meeting. I heard the description of how they were sitting, it felt like a huge step, I even felt "the hand of history" in the car.
I got back to the office, keen to learn more, and I asked colleagues about it. Those under 25 had no idea what I was talking about, the 40+ people varied between "about bloody time" and "really, let me see".
Hurrah for water metering.
Ha, ha. You are all fools. Do you really believe that the pictures of Gerry Adama and Ian Paisley are genuine?
They are forgeries issued by MI5. It is impossible that Ian Paisley would ever agree to sit in a room with Gerry Adams, let alone allow himself to be photgraphed with him. As for the two of them ever agreeing on anything. Don't make me laugh!
These photos have been knocked up using Photoshop. Or they could feature really lifelike latex dolls. But take it from me - it is not Gerry and Ian. And I should know - I spent the best part of 30 years growing up in the place.
In 20 years time, hopefully "A" Level students will be studying this meeting as a turning point in the politics in Northern Island. What really interests me is this:
The one indisputably good thing that Tony Blair has achieved, along with Mo Molem (during the early years) of his tenure as PM is the NI peace process. How much pressure was placed on them to deliver a result today? ...Gordon Brown with his 1bn quid, the threat of dissolution. Someone really wanted to get a deal today.
It's all good of course, cynicism should take a back seat to all this, but is this Tony Blair making sure his legacy is Peace in NI rather than quagmire in Iraq?
Maybe it's just people tidying up before Blair leaves, but personally, I think he deserves the credit for this one. Good luck to NI.
History is going to show Blair as being a bit of an oddball. Progressive Consensus, Peace in NI, Changes to the NHS that the Torries debatable involvement with Iraq. Infact he's going to be almost as intersting to study as Disraeli...
NB.
As an Englishman, my reaction is to wonder how much more of the taxes taken from my pension are going to be demanded by the Irish in the next six weeks. What other reason can there be for the delay?
The Northern Irish seem to think that they alone have a right to insist that the Union be maintained, and that the British should just carry on paying more taxes and providing more of our troops to be killed with no say in the matter at all.
Let's have a UK-wide referendum on maintaining the Union. The best result in my view would be for England to leave, and the other three countries to stay together to sort out their own problems.
It was a long time coming but this truly is John Major's legacy. Vision and statesmanship thirteen years ago from the grey man in glasses! Somehow one feels if the '97 election hadn't happened and we would never have had to witness Blair's grandstanding and this would have been brokered many many years ago!
Ho Ho! Even in a moment of historic relevance people cannot avoid the blame game. Even our esteemed author Mr Robinson couldn't help but slip in a comment on how the Republicans had been murderous and all cuddly Ian ever did was say 'No!' albeit very often!
The truth is the blame lies on both sides. There can be no mileage in entering a competition of pain. Both sides have played the 'more sinned against than sinner' routine with their constituency for far too long.
Three cheers for the peacemakers, and does it matter what it says on the CV? And can we please now end the Benign Britain routine. Surely we are all too intelligent for that anymore.
Good work today and quite a shock. Let's have 'normal' politics now. We need to build a strong private sector and encourage small businesses, part of this should be a review of the corporation rate for small businesses in NI. One anomaly should be put right by this new administration - pay the college lecturers the same as teachers and improve their morale.
Well I'm pleased there is some prospect for peaceful stability in Northern Ireland. However, when I see or hear any of the various clans postulating their sectarian perspectives I find I have little in common with any of them.
of course not, you have grown up as a free person in your own country, without machine guns on every corner, and with prospects of jobs... no matter what religion you are
What chance of the English having a say as to whether we would like to be totally devolved from Northern Ireland? I really don't care whether it becomes Independent or joins with the Republic, that's for them to decide. I just don't want to feel that I am in some way responsible for or associated with any of them.
the problem is, as long-term history suggests, you do have some responsibility as an englishman. all english people do, tho its surprising how many are un-educated properly on this matter, considering its been happening only a few hundred miles away from most for most of their lives! (conclusion reached whilst reading some of the posts here, amongst others)
think civil rights abuse on a horendous scale in the 60's & 70's, actions that can only be described as callous against fellow human beings, committed on a daily basis, by englishmen sent over as occupiers. A two-tier situation was in place for both persuasions for many years, tho the unionists have suffered along the way too, that is clear to see, nobody has won
one thing is for certain, its VERY easy to see how the sectarian politics have developed over the decades, and its not down to the people who live there, its down to where they live and whats going on
btw, great to see the meeting happen, they are probably two of europes most focussed & able politicians, if anybody can create a situation where both sides can meet somewhere in the middle, it may be Gerry and Ian.
What I found most interesting about Nick Robinsons article on the meeting of Paisley/Adams is that there was no credit given to the superlative, and superhuman efforts which have been made, consistently, and personally, by our Prime Minister - over a ten year period - to get to this point.
Curmudgeonly - or what?
Of course, some might argue that it was merely a reflection of the 大象传媒 Agenda, which is to knock Blair and undermine the democratic legitimacy of government simply to improve the watching figures. The facts fit.
James E Siddelley
Ken from Texas, your point is based on wrongly used words.
The people of Ulster did not choose to be ruled by London. The British government at the time chose to divide Ireland by keeping six out of the nine counties of Ulster, to ensure a protestant unionist majority.
Nevertheless Ireland is far too small an island to be divided in this way, even the British secretary of state has commented on the fact that Northern Ireland's economy in the long term is unsustainable. It is time the moderate unionists in the north realised that the south has changed dramatically since the 1950's to the point where people in the south have more in common with people in Britain than they do with Republicans in the north. Today was a step forward in terms of stability but its time that moderate unionists (hardcore paisleyites will never change) accept the only way forward long term is unity with the south.
This report, like so many others, serves to perpetuate the mistaken belief that the failure of these people to meet before was a shared failure. Whatever objections you have to another person or party you are obliged to at least meet with them if you pretend to hold any part of democracy dear. This is especially so when that other group command as large a share of the vote as sinn fein have done for so long. Paisley alone was the person who blocked this interaction and has done so for years. It is to blair's credit that he has slowly boxed him in and forced him to do the right thing. Catholics form almost half of NI s poulation but have never been represented by a government minister, thanks mainly to Paisleys refusal to countenance this.At long last representation may mean peace.
I have just renewed my license fee, your blog entry reminded me why i should make sure i pay it. Thankyou 大象传媒 for employing people like Nick.
I wonder if 'Andrew from Belfast' is aware that the spy-ring was spying ON rather than FOR Sinn Fein in 2002 as the evidence has proven?
Pesky republicans, eh? Letting the British government disrupt democracy on their watch... They've clearly 'got away with far too much,' those damn nationalists.
Andrew, revise the facts before you come off with things like that.
"When I see or hear any of the various clans postulating their sectarian perspectives I find I have little in common with any of them." says John Galpin.
Along with Neil Hoskins, I'm sure you would like it if you were not in any way associated with any of the negative repercussions of imperialism; in this respect its legacy is your burden as in so many others it is to your benefit.
This should not betray any sympathy for Ciaran (27) and Patrick (34). Historical analogies and demands for anachronistic apologies will improve nobody's life, they are cheap tools for political oneupmanship.
The sad thing is that gestures such as forgiveness which would start to break down the suspicion and paranoia come just as cheap but are so rarely utilised.
Hopefully this government will someday provide a forum for such voluntary gestures of goodwill and focus on improving the lives of all the people. We'll not hold our breath though.
The NI Peace Settlement achieved by the British Prime Minister (started by ex PM John Major) is one of the few positive legacies of Tony Blair *
* trust we do not discover than in order to secure this peace (dates 'coinciding' with the end of this premiership) Tony Blair performed another 'political alchemy' trick whereby a true solid settlement became nothing more than a hollow unworkable compromise agreement.
Hay Ho !
vikingar
Sorry to put a downer on all this optimism, but Blair's duplicitous negotiating methods have left Northern Ireland in the hands of the bigots and extremists: what kind of reward is this for David Trimble's and John Hume's parties? The middle classes have been sold out and must fear for their future under a government of the fringes of both right and left: it's a kind of coalition of the BNP and Socialist Workers party, hardly a government of the Third Way is it, Mssrs Blair and Hain?
St铆ofan, please don't go putting words into my mouth. I genuinely intended that what I said should be taken at face value: in the context of what I considered to be a blog post that was celebratory, forward-looking and optimistic, and a range of responses from us commenters that (up to that point) were largely in the same vein, Ciaran was more or less the first person to respond with an inflexible, backwards-looking, "don't trust the hated enemy" comment of the kind that I personally believe is completely unhelpful when it comes to tackling deep-seated problems of this sort, whatever the truth of his remarks (an aspect you'll notice I deliberately refrained from commenting on, unless "doctrinaire" means something different to you than it does to me).
Ref Patrick #34 (& Ciaran #27)
A clear demonstration of meaning of the word Blarney :)
Ireland's problem/struggle is rooted in its history.
Therefore, always a risky to position one self (or a people) as the subject of oppression, vicious dogma, bigotry & a 'holier than thou' attitude.
You would be mindful of the historic connections between Southern Ireland political foreces/establishment & the biggest internal threat to Europe (Nazism) & 'alliances' through hate [1a]
Esp the actions of De Valera [2a] [2b] offering 'condolences' ref death of Hitler to the German Ambassador in Ireland 1945, et al ... Sean Russell [3a] [3b] Frank Ryan [4a] etc.
So it鈥檚 a case of what they did then [1a] & even what they say now [5a]
It remains ample food for thought, especially since Southern Ireland now benefits so much from a free Europe *
* free from the Nazi yoke, which many of its people helped to remove, but which its political establishment & republicanism - did not (at best) & 'collude' (at worst)
Still there are some shrill voices still in denial [6a] [6b]
Most will welcome the positive recent developments, but I would postpone/cancel the airbrushing & white washing of Irish history.
vikingar
SOURCES:
[1a]
[2a]
[2b]
[3a]
[3b]
[4a]
[5a]
[6a]
[6b]
I think I need to respond to Damien and Johns comments on my lack of understanding and empathy with any of the groups in Northern Ireland. First see my response no 50 and then
Damien, I think you need to study your own history a bit better, it was primarily Scottish protestant fundamentalists, not English, who came to mainly what is now Northern Ireland. An estimated 100,000 of then from about 1600-1700, a truly enormous number in those days. They started over at the behest of James 1V of Scotland who then became James 1st of England, and he had primarily Scottish lowlanders to move as few English could be persuaded. The legacy of this is both things like Orange lodges , which are virtually unknown in England and the ongoing links to Presbyterianism, a sect that is very minor indeed in England.
And whilst I don't want to excuse some of the things that happened at the behest of the classes ruling from Westminster it should be remembered that these are far from being just English and until relatively recently really also only reflected the views of a well entrenched ruling elite.
I certainly don't like or condone the civil rights abuses that took place in NI but it was the descendants of Scottish Presbyterians sent by an initially Scottish king who were perpetrating this not Englishmen so at least please get your facts straight
Perhaps this is partly why I have little understanding or empathy with any of them, I'm not protestant, I'm not Catholic, I'm not Norman /French, I'm not Scottish and it's rulers from there that annexed England and then perpetrated this in Britains name. Shame on them!
i dont know if many British people realise that the true meaning of the flag of the Irish Republic is :
green - Catholic nationalism
white - peace between both sides
orange - Protestant Unionism
for the first time in history, that naive hope, embodied in the Irish flag could finally come to fruition.
As an Irishman , and a nationalist, I thank Mr Paisley and Mr Adams for finally putting the past behind. Mr Paisley's speech especially was a tour de force - and I honestly look forward to the day when Orangemen realise that they are proud Irishmen, and part of Irish history - not separate to it. For too long , Republicans have laid claim on what it means to be Irish. In my view, there are two meanings - and one of them is Orange loyalism. Thats just reality, and we all just have to face up to that.
I look forward to the day that I can attend an Orange parade on the banks of the Boyne in the south, without fear or intimidation - and for Orangemen to freely, without fear , visit the south, have a few pints with us and join us in our Patricks Day parades.
And most of all - none of us ever want to go to those dark dark days of madness , murder and conflict. Those days are gone forever, thank God.
Patrick#34 & Ciaran#27 - Adams and Paisley have put the past behind finally. You should too. The war is over. Get used to it.
Well, Brad, Ciaran is fully welcome to his opinion as it is based within rational thought. Just because his opinion isn't within the consensus of thought doesn't mean that it is invalid or anachronistic as you implied through your use of words like "inflexible." Ciaran seems to be of Irish descent at least, and may perhaps have been a victim of 'British state terrorism' himself, as many in Northern Ireland were.
As for vikingar's accusations of Nazi sentiment within Ireland, I was unaware that offering condolences to a country for the death of a major leader was grounds for a conspiracy- nor do I believe these theories have any basis in rational thought.
from wikipedia:
Sir John Maffey, the then British Representative, commented that de Valera's actions were "unwise but mathematically consistent". (source cited in article on Devalera himself).
As Devalera said to Churchill upon being spoken to by him- "It is indeed fortunate that Britain's necessity did not reach the point when Mr. Churchill would have [invaded Ireland]. All credit to him that he successfully resisted the temptation which, I have not doubt, many times assailed him in his difficulties and to which I freely admit many leaders might have easily succumbed. It is indeed hard for the strong to be just to the weak, but acting justly always has its rewards."
It is also somewhat churlish to mention Ireland benefitting from "Free Europe" when 'Freedom' was something that they had been denied by England for over 700 years, and that even to this day they still haven't realised fully.
History can be lead weight that impedes change, and the struggle of Rev Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams to work through their difficulties and come to a quiet positive consensus is something we can all identify with. There is much hurt, anger, hate, and bitterness in the past but focusing on positive issues in a relaxed way helps develop success. The first step may be modest but it鈥檚 on foundations like this that great legacies are made.
Nick Robinson鈥檚 interesting and all too human story reminded me of Orson Welles quote, 鈥淚n Switzerland they had brotherly love, five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock!鈥 The history of Northern Ireland has been more dramatic than this but the end point struck me as being a similar turning point, and may hint at a happier, more industrious, and wealthier generation in years to come.
Looking at party political issues and community relations with the United Kingdom, I see a similar vision developing in the steps taken by Plaid Cymru, seizing a practical and socially positive approach, and the immigrant Muslim, black, and Asian communities taking greater personal responsibility and a more patient approach to improvement. Britain has had its difficulties but I have faith the wind is changing.
To see arch rivals of nothern ireland,Gerry Adams Ian Paisley sitting next to each other is a great sign of progress since good friday agreement a decade ago.But failurn neither to photgraphed shaking hands and looking directly into the camera is a reflection of current stalemate of a very big gap still to be bridged before a power sharing become a reality
.This is a lession to srilanka that no matter how one describes the liberation movements as perpetrators of violence but condon indiscriminate bombing of civilans by oppresive govts causing death,distruction and carnage,
one has to come to term with the fact that leaders do not count unless they are backed by the people themselves.
Dear Nick,
Its Not only NHS workers that cheer the tories, in the yaucht club at the weekend we held an impromt mini election 56 voted. Not one voted Labour, but liberals came out on top,in the club there were 65 people, and the foreigners said, we would not vote for any BRITISH PARTY, THEY WERE DUTCH,
I seriously hope it lasts. Paisley's words of 'never, never, never' should change to 'maybe, maybe, maybe' or 'hopefully, hopefully, hopefully'. As with everything in NI, time will tell.