´óÏó´«Ã½

This isn't going to stick. I suspect Mandy is behind it. Unless Coulson is shown to have committed a criminal offence - MOST unlikely - the fact that dodgy things happened when he was editor of NotW has little or nothing to do with the work he is now doing.

SCREAM

The political aspects of this story are all smoke and mirrors, the real story is the NoW first breaking the law, then receiving special treatment from the Judiciary & Police.

All this speculattion about coulson's role is a distaction from what seems to be proof that News International obviously exerts undue influence on the entire british establishment.

Hi Nick
Cammy might be standing by his man but methinks it will be D.I.V.O.R.C.E (aka the chop) if, as is looking more and more likely the Guardian was on the money with its revelations today. But why stop there; the Police, CPS and the Judiciary have big questions to answer as well and heads should be rolling if collusion or passive acquiesce to keep this quiet is revealed.

This really is a non-story. The real story of the day is that Brown is bankrupting the country with his Government's excessive borrowings. The true scandal is that Brown was deficit spending and bloating the public sector during the boom years, leaving the nation's credit card maxed out now we are in recession. Future generations will be paying tax simply to service the debt being created by Brown's Government.

As for Coulson, he left the News of the World over two years ago. I seem to remember a certain Alastair Campbell working for a certain Robert Maxwell prior to becoming spin doctor in chief to Tony Blair. Campbell and Coulson are two of a kind - criticise the one and you criticise the other - they do what they do and I am afraid their services are needed by our political leaders. This is simply a non-story - concentrate on the real issues - public debt, spending cuts, rising unemployment and regulation (or lack of it) of the financial services industry.

One last try -

I can't believe that vitually everybody on here is using this issue as a political football.

The big story is the unlawful activities of the News of the World and the police decission to take no further action at the time of the original trial at which the information come to light.

Turning it into labour vs tories is spinning the story away from those who are actually culpable ie. News International and refocusing on 2 political parties who had no part in this particular illegal activity.

This is a possible case of one of the worlds biggest media organisations receiving special treatment from the british establishment.

Why is nobody asking why?

Or is it the usual case of media outlets sticking together, because i can promise you, if the boot was on the other foot and ´óÏó´«Ã½ journalists had been caught in unlawful activity, then Sky news et al would be shouting it to the rooftops demanding that the charter be revoked immediatel

'The line coming from his close allies....' Nick

On the lunchtime news, David Cameron stood on a pavement and answered questions. He said that everyone deserves a second chance and Andy Coulson would be keeping his job.

Contrast that with our esteemed Prime Minister who goes to ground each time there are questions to be answered.

Is it any coincidence that Damian MacBride is reported to have recently returned to these shores the original innuendo in pursuit of smear merchan if ever there was oe.

Same old newlabour; thrashing around playing politics with every issue. Where are the cries now of - the economy is more important right now...

Bunch of lightweights that the British public is heartily fed up with, hence only 8% of them bothered to put a cross in Gordon Brown's box at the European elections. It would be a miracle if they manged a 50 percent improvement on that at a general election; they've achieved the ultimate nemesis; made their own supporters embarrassed to admit they stil support them.

Floating voters? Worcester woman? - you don't stand a chance.

Call an election.

If Coulson does have to go, Cameron could always hire Damian McBride - if the past is the past of course.

Hang on - even for you, Nick, two attempts to stir up some anti-Tory feeling on a non-story is pushing it a bit far.

Time for you to either be a little more impartial or to maybe admit your bias and suffer the consequences?

Oh dear,
The journalists have gone to their lionising of "Yates of the Yard" again. This feeble, peurile delight in some supposed "brilliant" detective allows them to run lots of headlines about Scotland Yard investigating.
Yates has a pathetic record of wasting public resources and bringing no-one to book, but getting his smug face on telly, courtesy of journos with a mental age of ten.
Do we have to go through such a charade again, or might we get some serious journalism? Probably not, as it's the conduct of journalists that is under scrutiny...

Nick, if I remember correctly, you went to Oxford University. If, and I have no evidence to suggest that you were involved in illicit activities, as a student you did things that many students do which are illegal (smoking dope for example) or were associated with students that did, would you expect the ´óÏó´«Ã½ to ask you to resign or would you report it as the ´óÏó´«Ã½ toughing it out?

Coulson is not a politician but an employee of the Tories. They cannot make him resign for actions that he may or may not have been aware of, several years ago when he was employed by someone else. How abuot focusing on the real story - how the media conducts itself and why the police decided not to investigate further

Nick, good on the Tories for toughing it out, after all we all know who really is behind this, the current leader of the Liebour party Lord (I'll drop the tarrif my friend) Mendelson!!! As for prescott......plonker, would loved to have seen the letter he wrote to matey boy Gordon with regards to McBride

# 5. At 3:39pm on 09 Jul 2009, goldCaesar wrote:

One last try -

I can't believe that vitually everybody on here is using this issue as a political football.
----------------------------------------------------
I actually agree with you goldCaesar, the actions of News International and the News of the World need to be fully investigated.

The problem is that this story is also political - Labour must be getting pretty desperate to try to get revenge for McBride in this way, but Brown, Lord Mandelson, Prescott and Campbell, and other Labour apologists, have all commented on this story to the effect that Cameron must sack Coulson.

I don't think Cameron should sack Coulson for things that may have happened at the News of the World and other papers whilst he was Editor - he resigned over the original incident in any case, showing he was prepared to take the rap as the Editor - when was the last time a Cabinet Minister stood down gracefully? I can answer that - it was Lord Carrington over the Falklands being invaded on his watch as Foreign Secretary.

Alastair Campbell worked for Robert Maxwell prior to becoming Blair's spin doctor in chief - I don't recall a big storm about that at the time.

There are signs everywhere that this is just a run of the mill Labour smear attempt.

If there is no evidence against Coulson then neither he or Cameron have anything to fear.

If only the media circus could whip up this much enthusiasm for topics such as when a British Prime Minister has been found telling lies to parliament.

I'm very glad to hear that he's standing by Coulson. I would have thought the less of him if he'd responded to a campaign by the ´óÏó´«Ã½ and the most disreputable members of the Labour Party to influence the selection of his team.

I would not think that Cameron would be stupid enough to stand by Coulson if he thought there was evidence that he'd be damaged by keeping him in post.

This story could have a long way to run and like so many events that have been brushed under the carpet to save government embarrassment perhaps this one should be too.

For a government that has taken away so many of our civil liberties they protest too much.

What's ggod for the goose and all that. If our emails and telephone calls can be tapped into why not theirs. As they tell us 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.'

If as someone suggests , Scotland Yard was pressured in to not investigating further at the time,who applied the pressure. It's unlikely to have been her Majesty's opposition, they can't exert that kind of pressure. This only leaves one other possibility, was this going to embarrass a major supporter of another party who just happens to own a vast publishing empire ? Or , was there something else that might well have come out in the wash from one of our beloved leaders' telephone taps ? Maybe a full unhindered investigation might just be a good idea. It would certainly clear the air, though if the result doesn't suit, it may well hear no more about it.

goldCaesar (#2 and #5) - WELL SAID!

It's no wonder people are so easily "played"

(By people, I mean the majority who comment here on Nick's blogs - the mostly anti-Labour and few anti-Tory types, blinded by their allegiance to one and antipathy of the other)

This is a total non-story. Coulson resigned from the NOTW precisely because he didn't know what was going on. That means he had lost control of the enterprise he was nominally in charge of. Because he didn't know what was going on at the NOTW, today's trumped up story is a work of fiction and smear. I am sad, but not surprised, that Robinson has tried to puff it up twice today. Responding to government requests to smear the opposition seems to be part of his job description.

Two comments at the top; one is spot on, the other delusional.
gold Caesar has it right, that News International has had the political establishment in its pocket is no surprise to any seasoned politics watcher. That group owns the News of the World, Sun, Times, Sunday Times, Sky, Talk sport, Virgin radio, Wall Street journal, the enormous US Fox corp (TV station and owner of 20th Century Fox - of unbelievable bias and innuendo reporting), and Asia's main satellite and cable broadcaster, Star. It is behind the majority of global warming denials, and its control over politics and media frightening. The establishment is scared of the enormous, DISTURBINGLY undemocratic power of Murdoch. But the police, too? What can we believe in anymore?
But of N Beale: who wrote:
This isn't going to stick. I suspect Mandy is behind it.
For heavens sake, take off your blinkers. Coulson was editor!! How has he, as Cameron says, paid for his actions? Has he stood trial? Shall we say an "accused thief" should not stand trial because we know he is not working as a thief now?

#7 RobinJD

The unfortunate truth is that they're both a bad as each other - taking every opportunity to smear and besmirch those in its way.

New Labour and the Tories should feel ashamed of themselves. Together they're trashing the UK.

Gold Ceaser:
I agree,this is a story about democracy,(See 161 previous). Not the party political bunfight contributors are using to distract from the real issue.
The personal is political:Any illegal exercise of power against an individual abrogates their rights as a citizen, and is a violation.
You are right to object to this travesty of a debate, which should be about the freedom of the individual and the rule of law.
Instead we get tired replays of party political positions.
Best wishes.
Bryher

George Osborne must be off message. He has toned down the full-on 100% support for Mr Coulsen and now says, 'Let's wait and see what the Police have to say.'

I'm struggling to get my head around this.

When the New Labour project was still a glint in the eye, Tony Blair flew to Australia to address Rupert Murdoch's team, in the hope that News International would throw the weight of The Sun and NoTW behind his challenge for power. It worked.

Wind on and Labour are now attacking the NoTW for doing "bad things".

And, by association, attacking the Tories because an ex-News Int editor joined their party after one of the papers obviously did bad things.

This isn't a story about active politics. It's about how politicians pervert or are perverted by the media. That's been happening for years.

Real political issues are about some poor old soul who lost out when Brown couldn't find his Presbytarian compassion to admit he was wrong and reinstall the 10p tax band.

Or troops having to wait around because the transport fleet aircraft are so undersupported that they can't be reliably scheduled within a period of many hours - rather than approach even poor commercial aviation punctuality.

Or people not being able to get university places that were "obviously" going to be available as we get ever more applicants to meet the "50 percent of school leavers target".

Didn't like Campbell or McBride. Don't like Coulson. Don't like the pernicious spin culture that has been distorting political life for well over a decade.

Really don't like politics being an incestuous Westminster village affair. (By the way, MODS, that's a totally acceptable word!)

Talk about the OUTCOMES. The delivery - or lack of it. By which ever party.

And I object to Ministers having dozens of highly paid "advisors" WE are obliged to pay for, who have progressively stopped the civil service from being a neutral body able to work sensibly for any government party.

You never know, perhaps Dave won't have to sack Coulson... if he's involved, a judge will make the decision by sending him to prison.

He certainly wouldn't be the first with Tory links to be jailed.

As I understand it the telephone tapping is mostly using the default pin number on the answering service, what's your moble number Nick we'll give it a call and see if it works.

20. At 4:35pm on 09 Jul 2009, Mckensie8 wrote:
Coulson was editor!! ... Has he stood trial?

I believe it's still customary in this country to obtain evidence before putting someone on trial. Is there any such evidence?

What everybody will be wondering is how come the police have been so quick to look into this matter but when it comes to expenses etc they stay at then end of the biggest barge poll they can find. So Nick thats two posts in a day, you must be on overtime........

Interesting take on the Spectator webpage today.



Are the ´óÏó´«Ã½ doing the job of or for the Labour press officer? Surely not.

"Mckensie8 wrote:

For heavens sake, take off your blinkers. Coulson was editor!! How has he, as Cameron says, paid for his actions? Has he stood trial? Shall we say an "accused thief" should not stand trial because we know he is not working as a thief now?"

You are not comparing like for like, Coulson is not being accused of illegal acts and there is currently no evidence that he even knew that illegal acts were going on.

Would you expect the manager of a bank to be arrested because one of the counter staff was stealing? However, you may expect the manager to resign when the theft came to light.

If Coulson is found to be involved with the phone hacking then he would have more then losing his job to worry about (he could end up in jail!)

Oh dear.

I always knew there would be trouble coming when Mandelson brought back that incredibly well-drilled technique he introduced (from the USA), so shadow ministers had to make statements, strike poses, etc., at the proper time on the right day... And then had Ministers bobbing up and down with "initiatives" every few minutes while in government.

Seem to remember that politicians used to communicate for themselves as part of their normal role.

What I'd like to know, Nick, is which part of the ´óÏó´«Ã½'s political team has been tracking

a) government announcements of "new" initiatives
b) the announced/planned costs of the initiatves and
c) the promised outcomes (in terms of cost and in terms of the numbers of people affected or the projected "value to society")...

AGAINST

d) those initiatives that actually went forward
e) the ACTUAL cost of the initiatives, and
f) the REAL outcome from those initiatives (in terms of cost, people affected, etc.)

From my limited research, it seems that over the years, Government has promised "new" apprenticeship schemes and on those announcements, we are already running 250,000 places behind the promises, ignoring the latest batch...

I gave up even attempting to measure the planned costs of IT projects against current costs (most never emerge into the light of day to meet the intended objectives, and most are at least 50 pecent over budget). MOST can't be measured, as they still don't deliver the services planned to anything like the number of planned beneficiaries.

THAT'S the scandal in political communications!

Playing up the puff, hiding or obfuscating over the deliverables...

Should Coulson go? Couldn't care less.

Should Mandelson have been re-hired as a Minister, after resigning because he mislead mortgages lenders by failing to declare he'd borrowed a couple of hundred thousand from Minister Robinson) - ASOh dear. I blame Mandelson.

Remember that incredibly well drilled technique he introduced (from the USA), so shadow ministers had to make statements, strike poses, etc., at the proper time on the right day... And had Ministers bobbing up and down with "initiatives" every few minutes while in government.

Seem to remember that politicians used to communicate for themselves as part of their normal role.

What I'd like to know, Nick, is which part of the ´óÏó´«Ã½'s political team has been tracking

a) government announcements of "new" initiatives
b) the announced/planned costs of the initiatves and
c) the promised outcomes (in terms of cost and in terms of the numbers of people affected or the projected "value to society")...

AGAINST

d) those initiatives that actually went forward
e) the ACTUAL cost of the initiatives, and
f) the REAL outcome from those initiatives (in terms of cost, people affected, etc.)

From my limited research, it seems that over the years, Government has promised "new" apprenticeship schemes and on those announcements, we are already running 250,000 places behind the promises, ignoring the latest batch...

I gave up even attempting to measure the planned costs of IT projects against current costs (most never emerge into the light of day to meet the intended objectives, and most are at least 50 pecent over budget). MOST can't be measured, as they still don't deliver the services planned to anything like the number of planned beneficiaries.

THAT'S the scandal in political communications!

Should Coulson go? Couldn't care less.

Should Mandelson have been re-hired as a Minister, after resigning because he failed to declare to mortgages lenders that he'd already borrowed a couple of hundred thousand from Minister Robinson?
AS REPORTED BY THE ´óÏó´«Ã½ - for the sake of the Mods... GO CHECK...
Too late to bother about.

Blair (and Brown) wanted 50 percent of school leavers to go on to further education. It's estimated that 50,000 places may be "missing" this year... And plenty of higher education outlets are still stuck with uncompleted building work because the SKILLS and LEARNING qango couldn't add up!

THAT'S a communications scandal: disjointed communication across government and in terms of total mis-selling to the public.

If Coulson was in any way complicit in the hacking scandal he should go, be tried and ideally, imprisoned.

If Blair and Campbell are found to have misled Parliament on the basis of a dossier that even the good Lord Hutton seemed to say was "optimised" to present the government case, then they should be tried and if necessary jailed as well.

There were hundreds of lawyers across government who should have checked the legitimacy of the source evidence. That's what lawyers do. Some resigned over the legallity of the war. Did others know that the most damning bit of evidence over 45 minute WMD was based on a single source whose evidence the "intelligence" (HA) organisation discredited after the dossier? Did they know that a big chunk was a university research paper?

SOMEBODY had to know what the sources were. WHO? WHY don't we know? Did any of them gain from making the origins "hazy"?

THAT'S a communications issue, regardless of the person(s) involved.

Trying to make the Iraq war enquiry a private matter?

THAT is a complete failure to understand how to communicate with the public who paid for it, with their lives in the case of our armed forces and the local populace, and through massive tax costs.

You can always tell when the MPs are ready for their summer vacations from Parliament. (Don't suppose there any any major public announcements being announced today? Or planned for mid-August while the MPs build sand castles?)

If Coulson is guilty he should go. If not, he's not tarnished. Get real.

(By the way, MODS, that was public comment, not slander.)

Blair (and Brown) wanted 50 percent of school leavers to go on to further education. Estimated that 50,000 places may be "missing" this year... And plenty of higher education outlets are still stuck with uncompleted building work because the SKILLS and LEARNING qango couldn't add up!

THAT'S a communications scandal: disjointed communication across government and in terms of total mis-selling to the public.

If Coulson was in any way complicit in the hacking scandal he should go, be tried and ideally, imprisoned.

If Blair and Campbell are found to have misled Parliament on the basis of a dossier that even the good Lord Hutton seemed to say was "optimised" to present the government case, then they should be tried and if necessary jailed as well.

Blair is a lawyer. If he couldn't be bothered to ask whether the information was accurate and what the sources were, he had hundreds of lawyers across government who should have. Some resigned over the legallity of the war. Did others know that the most damning bit of evidence over 45 minute WMD was based on a single source whose evidence the "intelligence" (HA) organisation discredited after the dossier? Did they know that a big chunk was a university research paper?

SOMEBODY had to know what the sources were. WHO? WHY don't we know? Did any of them gain from making the origins "hazy"?

Trying to make the Iraq war enquiry a private matter?

THAT is a complete failure to understand how to communicate with the public who paid for it, with their lives in the case of our armed forces and the local populace, and through massive tax costs.

You can always tell when MPs are ready for their summer vacations from Parliament. (Don't suppose there any any major public announcements being buried today? Or planned for mid-August while the MPs build sand castles?)

fairlyopenmind comment 24. The fact that New Labour back in 96/97 flew all the way round the world for an audience with Murdoch is exactly why we should take this story as so important. I do not necessarily blame Blair, Labour had suffered massively over decades from hatchet jobs by the Murdoch press. And despite Labour gliding to victory in 97, it felt it so necessary to court on Murdoch's support.
That is the whole point. Blair was if anything practical/ realistic. And it suited Murdoch to support a winner at the time, but he still calls political shots. He is extremely powerful, leaving politicians quaking to his whims. That the police and judiciary can also be - if the reports are accurate - in his throes, is extremely worrying.
This is not a free press. It is a powerful press, in which the views of many are crowded out by wealth. And it is a powerful press that - again assuming accurate reports - can put itself above the law. On the personality politics, Coulson needs to answer. I support neither New Labour nor Cameron. That is an irrelevance.

25. At 4:57pm on 09 Jul 2009, extremesense wrote:

You never know, perhaps Dave won't have to sack Coulson... if he's involved, a judge will make the decision by sending him to prison.

He certainly wouldn't be the first with Tory links to be jailed.
------
Disappointing as it must be for you, it is not (yet) a prisonable offence to have Tory links.

The judiciary still requires that somebody be charged with an actual offence, and to be found guilty of that offence. Unsubstantiated conjecture, which is all that is being bandied around at the moment, is not sufficient.

Is anybody honestly surprised or shocked that the British media would stoop so low? No, of course not!
What I find far more interesting is that Cameron is standing by his chum. I don't think he's nearly as bright as others seem to believe, but if he thought there was any evidence at all, he would have thrown Coulson overboard without a further thought. He must be quite certain that either there is no evidence, or if there is it is buried very deep.
Does he, I wonder, have evidence that there is no evidence? Very interesting...

26 skynine

"As I understand it the telephone tapping is mostly using the default pin number on the answering service, what's your moble number Nick we'll give it a call and see if it works."

==================

With the Directory of Mobile Phone Numbers recently launched by 118 the problem could be about to become a lot bigger than we would all dare to think !

Coulson isn't an MP and cannot be sacked by the electorate, unlike ALL the rotten MP's who will be sacked at the next election whenever dictator Brown calls one.

It would make "extremesense" to jail almost the entire government front bench for bankrupting the country and telling lies at every opportunity wrt Iraq, Ecclestone, doubling of 10 pence tax rate, spiralling house prices, boom and bust, FSA, crime figures, immigration numbers, illegal immigrants, deportation of failed asylum seekers,recession from USA etc. etc.

Just watched the Met's John Yates giving the Force's considered answer to the kerfuffle.

What on earth did the man think the question was that would give rise to his incredible response?

Again and again, the man went on about "no evidence of 'tapping'".

Today's story has got NOTHING TO DO with tapping (listening to live conversations), and is almost exclusively about accesing voicemail.

To think: our taxes are paying Yates' salary; obviously not enough, because if you pay peanuts,....

Good update, Nick.

See it isn't so hard to report the facts without spinning against the Tories or for Labour.

"Everyone is now waiting to see what Yates of the Yard has to say about why the Metropolitan Police did not extend its inquiry to cover all those whose voicemail was hacked"

That is the story. You do see why this is such a serious matter now, don't you, and you were mistaken to try and spin it against Coulson and Cameron?

As others have said, the real story here is the alleged actions of the NotW, judiciary and police. And the apparent inaction of the PCC.

It is a shame that a ´óÏó´«Ã½ journalist feels it more important to focus on personality politics rather than institutional failings.

So Nick and the ZaNuLabour young veterans who have been all over this today.

Yeats of the Yard YES Yeats of the Yard says basically that the Guardians story and this blog are wrong.

The fat controller was not tapped he carefully investigate and the number of hackings reported by the paper are untrue.

So the smearing of Cameron can stop, McPoison was guilty just get used to it.

What has become clear is the desperation of the ZaNuLabour party and their alleys.
It also proof of Nicks readiness to follow the Mandy line before the facts of proved.
I dont expect that there will be an apology the people involved are just not big enough.

Well that's that then! Who would disagree with Yates of the Yard. Probably one of the most trusted and knowledgeable of policemen in the country today.

He must have seen all the political manouvres by now.

Calm and unflappable and always there to keep peace and stop our crazy MP's from tearing each other apart.

And what about John Prescott? He must be crying in his beer that no one wanted to tap his phone. Best go quiet for a while John.

Another crazy day at Westminster and another distraction from reality.

It must be the silly season again.

Well, well, well... The questions were asked and Scotland Yard has replied.
No need for Mr Prescott's raised blood pressure after all.
Oh, and Mr Brown's partisan reminder that the Chairman of the Select Committee "... is a Conservative after all". Completely laughable in the setting of G8. We deserve far, far, far better than this.
Conclusion: 'Smeargate II, The Sequel', yet another abject failure.

Regards,

#33 sterling-donefor

Well surely this BLOG page is all about conjecture - it's the whole point.

Consequently, I am not in favour of locking up all Tories (or those with links to New Labour) although I would like to see our political parties at least try to appear to be principled. Of course, those who break the law should be subject to the same penalties as voters.

It's about time that we had a political system that was democratic and not hijacked by vested interests.

Nick, the ´óÏó´«Ã½ front page has announced: 'New phone hack inquiry ruled out'. Apparently there is nothing to investigate!

So the cover-up begins. You have to now choose to pursue this story to the bitter end, if you want to show us you are not a partisan hack, or hang your sneakers up and go to pasture. Which will it be? I guess your next post will reveal your intentions... are you going to ask the hard questions people have raised here in recent comments? Or will you pick another piece of fluff to spin against the Tories? Will the Beeb let you tell us if this subject is D-noticed? So many questions, eh?

Told you so (Police have ruled out investigation). You really should be more careful about being used for partisan smearing campaigns. "PM Lies to Parliament - repeatedly" is a big story. This is not.

Nick! Oh dear! It seems that your attempt to discredit David Cameron via Andy Coulson has been denied by Yates of the Yard.

No further action.....

It'll be interseting to hear your response....

So now the Met has ruled out a new investigation, how do you intend to keep the story going, Nick?

´óÏó´«Ã½ six o'clock news:

The Police say they will not re-open the investigation into the NOTW 'phone tapping.


END OF STORY.

Nick dearest

How did this rate on your Small Beer scale?

So a man was in charge when some people broke the rules and were punished for it. That man then resigns because he accepts he had overall responsibility. No new evidence has emerged to incriminate him nor allow the police to charge him with an offence.

30. At 5:24pm on 09 Jul 2009, Mark_WE wrote:

Excellent comparison, being in charge means accepting responsibility for failing to prevent the criminal act, it does not make you guilty of anything else without proof.

Personally I'd be more worried if Campbell, Mandelson and Prescott were on my side as character witnesses. Total non story and yet again the political media swallow the offered bait

Nick,
This has all the grubby marks of Prime Minister Mandelson all over it. A suspiciously filled Chamber this morning with ex-MEP 'Fat Cat' Chris Huhne getting all het up (not to mention dear old Prescott spitting and spluttering on cue from his Yorkshire Estate!). Old Etonian 'Bruiser' Clarke doing the rounds of the studios and you being the catspaw with your partial contribution on The Daily Politics show.
Yes, 'Mandy's' definitely running the show!

jonties no 48 wrote:

´óÏó´«Ã½ six o'clock news:

The Police say they will not re-open the investigation into the NOTW 'phone tapping.
END OF STORY.

This should certainly not be the end of the story. I care not a fig about the personality politics. Shock, horroer Conservatvies as well as Nu Labour hirte dodgy characters for their communications teams. It is not a shock. What is is that anyone thinks either is clean, open and honest. The story is of the press being above the law.

"Its_an_Outrage wrote:
What I find far more interesting is that Cameron is standing by his chum. I don't think he's nearly as bright as others seem to believe, but if he thought there was any evidence at all, he would have thrown Coulson overboard without a further thought."

Considering that this case first broke before Cameron hired him I expect that he had determined then if there was any evidence or not!

'He may or may not have eaten babies in the past but since he came to work for me not one one toddler has he gorged on'. So that's alright, then. Give me strength!

54. At 7:30pm on 09 Jul 2009, jacothenorth wrote:

'He may or may not have eaten babies in the past but since he came to work for me not one one toddler has he gorged on'. So that's alright, then. Give me strength!
---
You really shouldn't deride Lord Mandelson in that way.

Havnt the faintest idea what the mobile voicemail default pin no is all about but if it is so easy that anyone who does know what it means, (probably everyone over 3 and under 16), can do it, is it against the law to use the facility ?

not very convincing from the tory man at the ´óÏó´«Ã½ ...if this was the Labour spin doctor then Robinson would have had a field day shame on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ for employing such a biased reporter

well if the Editor did not know what was going on then he should have been sacked long before he resigned ...surely smart boy Cameron made one of his many boobs by taking this guy on ..of course he may be an old pal so thats all right then

The fact of the matter is that the whole episode is caused by the complete incompetence of the victims.
In a society where we constantly complain about "Big Brother" surveillance by the government as a nation the majority of people are totally unwilling to take even the most basic security measures. On this evening's report it quite clearly stated that most people don't bother to change their email PIN - which is the same as going out and leaving your front door unlocked, or keeping your cashcard PIN written down in your wallet.
Whilst stealing from someone who has done either of these things is still illegal, it's fair to say that the victims themselves would have to admit responsiblity.

58. At 9:42pm on 09 Jul 2009, oldsitkaspruce wrote:

well if the Editor did not know what was going on then he should have been sacked long before he resigned ...surely smart boy Cameron made one of his many boobs by taking this guy on ..of course he may be an old pal so thats all right then
-----
Substitute Draper for Coulson and you are bang on:

well if the Prime Minister did not know what was going on then he should have been sacked long before he resigned ...surely smart boy GB made one of his many boobs by taking this guy on ..of course he may be an old pal so thats all right then

Looks to me like the the media have been set up once again - disappointing that the ´óÏó´«Ã½ seem to be the most gullible or perhaps enthusiastic to toe the line. Why do you jump so high when you are pumped with information from all the usual political sources ?

Good grief, this isn't this complicated.

Journalists shouldn't steal mobile phone data, it's against the law. If new evidence emerges in relation to a crime it should be investigated.

Sounds like with all proability he will ride this out in any case and fair enough. If you are hiring a spin doctor you want them to be willing to bend the rules, it's practically a requirement.

53. At 7:05pm on 09 Jul 2009, Mark_WE wrote:

Considering that this case first broke before Cameron hired him I expect that he had determined then if there was any evidence or not!

I probably didn't make myself clear. I wondered whether Cameron's concern might be about evidence of evidence if you catch my drift.

There are a lot of unanswered questions of who what where why

The police seem not to want to go over this again they have come up with there answer of there is no new information

This seems to be that Police only did every closed investigation first time round and settled for the quick result that would satisfy every one without looking too closely at the matter

If it had been a member of the public they would of seized every computer every CD, DVD, every file and any other form media that could hold any information to what they had been up too

If this is so the Police have allot of questions to answer to why they did not look more closely into the matter

As the EDITOR of News of the World I would of thought that he would of wanted to know allot about the scoop of where and how they got the information before it was sent to the print room and any scoop that is likely to bite back would of had to go to the legal department for checking for liability first

This raise allot more questions than anwsers

Is anyone in the media or parliament brave enough to accuse Poulson of telling lies.

If Andy Coulson has done nothing wrong why is David Cameron giving him 'a second chance'?

"telecasterdave wrote:
Is anyone in the media or parliament brave enough to accuse Poulson of telling lies."

I think certain sections of the media and the Labour party would prefer the death of a thousand cuts, any accusation would bring the matter quickly to a head. Poulson would have little choice but to sue (if he didn't it would be seen as an admission of guilt) and unless the actual evidence is stronger then it appears at the moment he would probably win.

However, if no direct accusations are made the Labour party can continue to get political capital from the story.

MPs and the media should put up or shut up. As for the Guardian, it's trying to play catch up with the Telegraph but failing miserably.
So many pots calling the kettle black!

YOU are judged by the type of friends you keep Mr Cameron and I think we can make our mind up now...dont't you...?

Absolutely nothing will be done, otherwise it would have been done already soon as their was wind of the deputy prime ministers phones were tapped, the fact people wasn't notified of these crimes is another big aspect of this story, since when do the police "cover up" crimes, and this is a cover up otherwise it would have been made public sooner and the police would be more open, to my knowledge people only "cover up" when they are involved themselves, this raises new questions i for one want answering.

And as for cameron HAHA, can he show us how unsuitable for power he is anymore? the sad fact is this media opportunist politician "not sure i can call him a politician to be honest" but he probably will be in charge of our country *buys a plane ticket to iraq* yet another toff ruling the poor classes wounder who will suffer the most rich or poor? hummm

59. At 10:18pm on 09 Jul 2009, DeadMeatGF wrote:

________

Can i just add a reply to the message above DeadMeat wrote, you don't need to be ignorant to have your information stolen or traced, technology is great in many ways, but people will always think of way to exploit it, and they can do so without your knowledge or your passwords, simply putting the blame because people are ignorant is what leads to serious corruption, if i said well it wasn't my fault i shot you, i was ignorant to how the safty switch works when i pointed the gun at you, you would want me in prison of manslaughter would you not? just like these people hacking into people phones they are criminals and should be treated like so.

69. At 01:24am on 11 Jul 2009, davidou1234 wrote:
YOU are judged by the type of friends you keep Mr Cameron and I think we can make our mind up now...dont't you...?

===

Absolutely David, just like you can judge Brown by the friends he keeps, like McBride of "Smeargate" fame. Have you made your mind up about Brown as well, David?

70. At 10:55am on 11 Jul 2009, sirantonyp wrote:
Absolutely nothing will be done, otherwise it would have been done already soon as their was wind of the deputy prime ministers phones were tapped, the fact people wasn't notified of these crimes is another big aspect of this story, since when do the police "cover up" crimes, and this is a cover up otherwise it would have been made public sooner and the police would be more open, to my knowledge people only "cover up" when they are involved themselves, this raises new questions i for one want answering.

And as for cameron HAHA, can he show us how unsuitable for power he is anymore? the sad fact is this media opportunist politician "not sure i can call him a politician to be honest" but he probably will be in charge of our country *buys a plane ticket to iraq* yet another toff ruling the poor classes wounder who will suffer the most rich or poor? hummm

===

siranthonyp, what do you make of Gordon Brown doubling the tax rate for the poorest in society, and levying an extra tax on jobs from next April?

71. At 11:09am on 11 Jul 2009, sirantonyp wrote:
59. At 10:18pm on 09 Jul 2009, DeadMeatGF wrote:

________

Can i just add a reply to the message above DeadMeat wrote, you don't need to be ignorant to have your information stolen or traced, technology is great in many ways, but people will always think of way to exploit it, and they can do so without your knowledge or your passwords, simply putting the blame because people are ignorant is what leads to serious corruption, if i said well it wasn't my fault i shot you, i was ignorant to how the safty switch works when i pointed the gun at you, you would want me in prison of manslaughter would you not? just like these people hacking into people phones they are criminals and should be treated like so.

===

If you had shot him and the result of your action was manslaughter, he would not be in a position to want you in prison, as he would be dead!

73. At 11:14am on 11 Jul 2009, yellowbelly1959 wrote:

Well firstly taxing already poor people i think is wrong, i myself barely have enough for food, neither does my family yet we are pursued, harassed and threatened with prison by the courts for taxes we simply can't afford to pay it's either eat or pay the bills, and it's even more of a kick in the teeth and family jewels hanging over a vice, when mp's are caught stealing tax money, part of the system or not it was theft in my eyes they was only encouraged to take the expenses because they knew the more people involved the less chance of being prosecuted, can't send all parliament to prison can we? well we could but they wont let it happen again another rule for them and another for us, my family jewels closing in that vice very rapidly!!!

and i was speaking hypothetically about the shooting ofcourse haha

62 freedom

#Sounds like with all proability he will ride this out in any case and fair enough. If you are hiring a spin doctor you want them to be willing to bend the rules, it's practically a requirement.

Not one that we should advocate.

Rest assured that this is a non starter, labour have the wind up, they already know the election is lost and possibly brown as well will loose his seat.
With Mandelson behind this the public know that whatever he says is for his benefit only. Unfortunately he doesnt comprehend the truth.

Lets hope Cameron holds firm and takes no notice of the comments, and that the commentators remain neutral, as they have been very bias over the last few years towards labour.

31 fairlyopenmined. I do so envy you on your knowledge of political matters do you have direct contact with a mister brown and his colleagues? and no fancy answers now.I only want the truth.