大象传媒

Perhaps Mr Cameron should leave Sarkozy and Merkel to sort out the Euro - after all, it's THEIR problem, not ours.

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I hate to think what the conspiracy government will be doing next.

With regard to Merkel and the EU - we are already giving the EU 拢123 million per week. I say: not a penny more.

I do not have too much confidence in the public school boys standing firm. Don't forget that whilst they are happy enough cutting spending in their own country, they are ring fencing spending on 'overseas aid.' This includes things like 拢300m/yr to India, a country which can afford it's own space programme.

Will more sophisticated and experienced politicians be able to manipulate Bertie Wooster & co.? Let's wait and see.

Oh stop it! Not long before everybody jumps onto this new Coalition and rips hell out of it.

Most of the country is beaming about it but the 大象传媒 has to try and put it down. Why does Question Time seem to have hand picked (although they will say not) audiences of Labour supporters?

Do you know what? Labour are always shrill strident and thuggish (maybe something to do with their lower working class backgrounds), where as most of us voted Conservative and we are by nature not so confrontational, aggressive, types with chips on our shoulders.


You put the shrill lefty voice out there but the majority of us are cool, Conservative, calm and collected about the Coalition.

Merkel et al are not stupid, they will gel with Dave very well indeed. Give them more credit!

The Germans must take their share of responsibilty for the problems the Euro is facing. They were at the forefront of pushing for the single currency, and in setting the requirements for joining, and for setting the policies that each country SHOULD have followed to ensure that each economy was broadly aligned. The fact that they set bad rules and refereed the game badly is not Britain's fault, so why should we do Germany any favours if it goes against our interests?
I want to be in Europe, and when the time is right I have no patriotic objection to the Euro, but we must not allow ourselves to be manoeuvred by the European powers on this issue. If Merkel wants our support, what can she give us in return?

Come on boys and girls - let the people of Europe directly vote for their President and executive.....

This democratic deficit is the cause of much of the anti-European and isolationist rubbish being spouted in the extremist press. And this in turn is the destabilising economic issue that is crippling the Euro.

If you will not give up your appoint of the President at least let the whole population of Europe vote on the basis of one person one vote for the head and executive in change of Europe's' economy. If we are all to be put up against the barricades to rescue Europe's economy at the very least we should have a direct say in who is doing it!

We really do need a democratically elected European President - and we need it NOW.

Let us see the extremist press campaign against democracy!!!!

President Sarkozy appears full of pomp; possibly rather vain, image obsessed and may even be rather dim with remotely controlled strings? I think America recently had one of those? Could be wrong though?

Chancellor Angela Merkel appears to be very knowledgeable, hard-working and is determined to represent the people who have been - and are still - being 'ripped off' by short-selling and currency speculators who operate in packs around the world and appear to be untouchable as they destroy our pensions, our jobs and genuine business?

The only problem is about me and you being wrong - is that we won't get a bonus for it?

It might be helpful if David Cameron kept a clear head and aligned with German financial wisdom?

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I do not envy Cameron in his job of trying to unite the various EU views in his party. And thats got ten times harder with the coalition. I can see a lot of backroom deals are going to be happening here though between the various states, and the outcome will probably be the end of the euro over the next few years. There's simply to much opposition to it and to much ill will between the countries involved to make it workable as far as I can see.

It will be interesting to see how boy George wields the axe in light of the latest data from ONS. With the deficit being revised down from 163.4 bn to 156 bn, a drop of around 4.5%, and a month on month downward trend in borrowing, the financial situation does not seem quite as gloomy. First quarter growth will no doubt be revised up next week too, I suspect to around 0.4 to 0.5%. No doubt the tories will end up taking credit for the actions of the last administration.

Ah, Europe at last.

Personally I am happy to co-operate with Europe on trade related issues. I do not support political and economic integration, for all the reason that are obvious and are current. I would rather withdraw altogether, but at the very least I want to roll back the Lisbon treaty, if nothing else. There are some other powers, not involved in Lisbon, that I'd also like to get back.

It must be obvious to everybody that the whole concept of the Euro has failed. One size cannot fit all. The idea that the EU should have an override of national budgets, as is currently proposed, is anathem to me. However, since we aren't in the Eurozone it is not relevant to us.

One interesting thing is that as Germany wants to impose tougher punitive measures on other eurozone members, since they are paying for everything, it opens up the possibility of reforming the Lisbon treaty.

Excellent news. Let us have a referendum in the UK, not just on the Lisbon traety with changes, but on the whole issue of our continued membership. I don't think the Lib Dems could refuse that, after all that's what they wanted before we signed up to the whole shameful thing.

#1 Caledonian Comment
In what way is the fate of the Euro and of the economies of our neighbours not our problem?

The fact that Mr Cameron feels the need to remind us that he is still a Conservative actually speaks volumes.

I think most people do understand that in a coalition there have to be compromises. The worry is that Cameron has compromised far too much and been outmanoeuvred by Nick Clegg. Instead of the Conservatives behaving like the major 'shareholder' in this partnership, we have the tail wagging the dog.

True Conservatism is about keeping taxes low for everyone - yet the Lib Dems are pushing for tax rises, with a redistributionist agenda.

Obviously, financial turmoil in the markets, in the eurozone, and the need for spending and income to be brought into line in the UK and other countries means we must have a clear policy and action to prevent even worse issues of unemployment and recession/depression descending. However can the Con-Dem (is it is more frequently becoming known) coalition deliver? Cameron or as even Ian Hislop's(tory supporter as he is) Private Eye nicknames him Lord Snooty, seems primarily about ensuring with 55% needed to call an election and controlling the tory back-bench 1922 committee, both to ensure he stays in office for as long as possible. Coalition would seem on the face of it ideal if huge cuts are needed in public spending and large tax rises have to come, to carry out unpopular actions, but if all that concerns them is preserving their power base it is increasing looking like ineffective government.
Labour meanwhile has embarked on a period of navel gazing and does not provide meaningful opposition, what a country, poor us!

Mr Cameron seems to be persuaded by Lib Dems that by giving more power to local government he is giving 'power to the people'. In the real world, Local Councils are even more tyrannical than central government, particularly on issues like rubbish collection and planning.

Local Councils often behave like little dictatorships - a problem made much worse since the introduction of the 'cabinet system', which effectively allows decisions to be made by a small number of people. Unelected officials (including obscenely overpaid Chief Executives) run a tight ship, while ineffective elected councillors ignore the wishes of the people they are supposed to represent.

I'm all in favour of 'power to the people' - but to achieve this we need protection from the tyranny of local government. Giving them more power would make a bad situation worse. Cameron has clearly not understood that the worst culprits for 'land grabs' for development (including greenfield sites and back gardens) are the Councils themselves.

Citizens should be able to block unwelcome developments by having more say in the planning process. At the moment, councils usually ignore local wishes and favour the Big Developers.

Another change I would welcome would be to empower citizens as 'shareholders'. If the unelected Chief Executive does not do a good job, citizens should be able to fire him/her.

Maybe this is another area where having a coalition can be beneficial. Send in Cameron's sidekick, Clegg, to make friends with Europe. He can blame his boss when it comes to not being as open to an integrated Europe. Meanwhile, Cameron can be doing exactly the same in America.

Good cop/bad cop with role reversal where necessary.

The interesting thing about a democracy is that voters have a chance to hear politicians intentions and then vote on them accordingly.

What the Con-Dem coalition has brought us is two parties who seemingly would have nothing to do with each other before the election and who set out very differing European policies accordingly.

Once the election was over, they completely changed their views and decided a public democracy should be traded for a party stitch up so that they could decide for themselves what to do without a proper mandate.

Europe is one such area where the two parties funadmentally disagree(d).

What they should now do is go to the country with their new coalition agreement and see if the public vote for it. If so then they would have a mandate. Without this mandate the Con-Dems are disenfranchising the public and creating an unelected coalition party for government. Worse - they are changing to rules to keep themselves in power for 5 years.

It's not surprising the Mainland European parties will be sceptical.

One word about the European project always comes to mind: arbitrary. The rules, the conditions, the ins and outs, the euro, the central bank.... If business was run like this it would go under in 5 mins.

As long as DC sticks with his stated policy he should have no trouble with any of the coalitions. That means any further transfer of sovereignty, any new treaty, or any amendment to an existing treaty must be put to a referendum. The europhiles can't then complain about the verdict of the people, and the eurosceptics won't complain because the results of any such referendum will always be negative. The UK population will never willingly agree to any more transfer of power to the EU, as long as they are asked!

Of course the other EU nations won't like it, but there's nothing they can do.

"However, the two men are both from the centre-right, are deficit hawks and did agree, I'm told, that now is not the time to re-open the debate about Europe's institutions."

Intersting statement. It seems to me that the deficit situation is the ideal time for debate on Europe's Institutions. All Member States of the EU are faced with having to make public sector cuts yet, it seems these cuts do not extend to the public sector which is the EU.
Surely it would benefit all member states of the EU to reduce wasteful spending at European level in order to feed that money back into Member States own budgets to start reducing deficits.
In this regard it would seem more in the interest of Euro Zone countries to do so.
As a part of the Public Sector the EU Institions must face the same spending scrutiny as the Domestic Public Sector for the benefit of Europe as a whole

Just give us a binding referendum on Europe. If the sceptics win then it'll keep the politicians busy extracting us from the mess, if the philes win then there's a clear mandate to get our hands dirty and help clear up the mess.

Call Me Dave may be manager of the coalition that is his own party, and of the Government of the day, but when it comes to Europe he is merely a bootboy.

More difficult is having Conservatives in the UK Government taking an approach to Europe which is different to that propounded by Conservative MEPs.

@11 KMBayes:

Aside from the namecalling which only Labour think is a debating tool of worth, you have a real short memory.

In 1997, we had a strong economy, the benefits of which Blair and Brown claimed full credit for, and the assets of which they urinated away steadily, until we get to where we are today.

THAT'S why Labour are now in opposition, and that's why, with common sense at the ballot box, Labour will remain in opposition for the foreseeable future.

"President Sarkozy appears full of pomp; possibly rather vain, image obsessed and may even be rather dim with remotely controlled strings? I think America recently had one of those? Could be wrong though?"

Yes, and his name is Barack Obama

When we joined the "Common market" to allow free trade between European countries, then to agree to other advantages like free unimpeded travel, (which is still not in place), it has now become a huge over sized monster to which a few have reaped great rewards with huge pay packets and allowances. It is now totally out of control and needs to step back, take stock and come to terms with the fact that it is just too big to manage. It is no good comparing Europe to the USA, the USA is one country, Europe is not. I and millions of English people have never voted or been allowed to vote on such integration. I do believe we are still waiting for Spain and Portugal to start paying back their grants they received when they joined 25 years ago, to build their infrastructure. I am sure someone will correct me but the UK paid to join from day one and been paying ever since. I guess we should all forget that!! I am not anti Europe at all, I travel frequently and in fact now in Gibraltar. But it all seems a bit too much.

The idea that the EU should have an override of national budgets, as is currently proposed, is a perfectly reasonable response to the fact that certain member countries, particularly Greece, have lied and cheated at the Governmental level to mislead the EU about their finances, year-on-year.

One painful lesson here is that national Governments, including our own, as may shortly be revealed, cannot always be trusted to be good EU club members, therefore there does need to be an effective EU oversight.

Alternatively, the IMF will have to deliver the spanking.

11. KMBayes

"It will be interesting to see how boy George wields the axe in light of the latest data from ONS. With the deficit being revised down from 163.4 bn to 156 bn ..."
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Perhaps he can use some of the 7.4 bn to fund the 6 bn needed to stop the Labours job tax. Perhaps the 拢6 bn "threat to the recovery" as advocated by Gordon Brwon was not real ? Who would have thought it.

"No doubt the tories will end up taking credit for the actions of the last administration."
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Whilst this reduction is very welcome. It takes a special kind of rose tinted vision to think that a deficit of only 拢156 billion warrants "credit".

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Just substitute ''power'' for ''iron'' in that song ''Any Old Iron(Laydee)((Abridged rap version)?''

Caledonian Comment stated that "the Euro does not matter to us, the UK". Alas, it matters too much. The stability of the Euro is linked to the success and growth of the EU Economy and most of our trade is intra-EU trade. We benefit hugely by being outside the Euro as this gives us more flexibility in our economic management, however, the strength of the EU economy is fundamentally linked to the strength of the Euro and to our own exporting industry to the EU. A weak Euro can indirectly result in a higher value of Sterling making our exports to the EU more expensive. A weak Euro is also a reflection of the reduced purchasing power of EU consumers which is bad for Britain. Cameron needs to be at the heart of the EU especially on the promotion of more flexible labour markets in Europe and restricting the ares of intrusion of the Social Chapter. Although the Social Chapter can assist in providing more protection for workers and this is to be welcome, it can also act as a significant discincentive for firms to take on more workers. My question to all you pundits is how does Cameron maintian credibility with our EU partners by staying out of the mainstream in the EU parliament? Surely, this will be a major source of contention, not just in the EU but with the Liberal Democrats also?

Yesterday (May 20) William Hague was interviewed by John Sopel on 大象传媒 News.

Sopel pressed him to say whether there would be a referendum (as promised) if there were any amendments to the Lisbon Treaty.

Hague said it would depend if an amendment amounted to giving more powers to Brussels. If an amendment DID involve a transfer of powers, then a referendum would indeed be triggered.

Unfortunately, I cannot find a clip of this informative interview on the 大象传媒 website. Let's hope David Cameron was watching.

Let's also hope that when Mr Cameron discusses these matters with German Chancellor Angela Merkel he does a better job defending his corner than he did with Nick Clegg.

About letting the people of Europe vote for their own President, would it end up like the Eurovision Song contest, where everyone votes for their own? And then Germany ends up winning anyway like in the World Cup...

Amusingly, I see that Meddlesome and Adonis have resigned their shadow cabinte posts, citing the difficulty of doing their jobss from the Lords. Didn't seem to stop them when they were in Government, unfortunately for us.

Interestingly, McFadden only has Shadow Business secretary listed. What happened to all the rest of Meddlesomes portfolio?

If Merkel declined to meet Cameron I am pleased to hear it. Would have been better still if he had declined to meet her. To me it is clear that there should at the very least be three of four currency blocs in Europe. Even that is theoretically unstable (GCSE Economics) but at least more viable than just the euro. The pressures are going to mount big time. To date, the German people have been quiescent in order to be thought "good Europeans" and to try and expiate their Nazy past but as time goes on that effect is going to lessen and they'll start to look to worrying about themselves more, perhaps turning in to a larger Switzerland, which seems to do all right best I can tell, despite no EU and no euro.

#20 StealthTax

"Of course the other EU nations won't like it, but there's nothing they can do."

Actually, most 'ordinary' citizens of the other EU nations would probably agree with you! It's the political leaders of the EU nations who don't like the people having a say.

Remember, the French, the Dutch and the Irish all voted 'no' to the constitution. The Irish were bullied into changing their minds, but the French and Dutch did not get a chance to vote again. They were simply over-ruled. The British didn't get a vote at all, thanks to Gordon Brown supported by Nick Clegg who instructed his Lib Dem MPs to abstain on the referendum vote in the Commons. Lib Dem Peers voted against the referendum in the House of Lords.

The suggestion that the 'new' Lisbon Treaty was different to the earlier Treaty is easily disproved - not least because one of the main authors,

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#5 Greensleeves
'Labour are always shrill strident and thuggish (maybe something to do with their lower working class backgrounds)...'
Steady on girl!

I wonder how many of the politicians meeting in Europe today and over the weekend have any idea what is happening?

Stock market sentiment is against them. Currencies are currently taking a breather, but the trend of values is in favour of the dollar, and out of EUR and GBP.

Whilst they continue to pontificate, and keep selling the European dream, whilst continuing to ignore the real problems faced by the people of Greece, Spain and Portugal they are doomed.

It is no good telling over 100 million people that they have to suffer for the greater good of the other 150 million, or so, residents of the eurozone. And, increasingly, the German people are resnting the whole thing, since their bill is getting bigger and bigger. The politicians aren't paying attention, and we all know what happens eventually.

Apart from that, it looks increasingly like another global recession is looming, which will do nobody any good, and it is being caused by europe primarily.

Europe is itelsf a coalition, and has all the bad things that come with a series of compromises, not least the fact that each compromise ledas to another, and these become essential just to cope with the bad effects from the initial compromise. The glaring example is the single currency.

StrictlyPickled @ 28 says it takes a special kind of rose tinted vision to think that a deficit of only 拢156 billion warrants "credit".

I agree and that does not even begin to factor in the National Debt which must be about to cross the 拢1Tn (that is 拢1,000 Billion pounds) threshold anytime now.

We seem to be drowning in a tsunami of Government debt - so much for 'golden rules' and 'the end of boom and bust' from those who really should have known better.

Meanwhile Mutti, the motorcycle black Madonna, the two-wheeled gypsy queen, and her silver-studded phantom cause (EU reform), the gray flannel dwarf (Sarkozy) to scream, rides to the rescue, for there are no sins inside the Gates of Eden/EU.

15. At 11:14am on 21 May 2010, sunderpitt wrote:
Obviously, financial turmoil in the markets, in the eurozone, and the need for spending and income to be brought into line in the UK and other countries means we must have a clear policy and action to prevent even worse issues of unemployment and recession/depression descending. However can the Con-Dem (is it is more frequently becoming known) coalition deliver?

Well, the answer is simple. They have to deliver and PDQ. Will they? answer - Yes but in doing so compromises will have to be met which will not be to everybody tastes.

Had it not been for Labour's Lisbon treason there wouldn't be so much necessity for compromise on Europe.

The opinions of the Tories or the LibDems collectively or individually are irrelevant on an issue as important as this. Referendum is the only option as it's up to the British people to decide.

As I've said time and again, if the EU is such a great idea and such a benefit to everyone here then let it try and win us over. A referendum on the extent of our involvement with the EU would inspire a national debate amongst the electorate.

It's no use the Euro-philes telling the Euro-skeptics that they're just racists who don't understand the complicated issues, all that does is strengthen their anti-EU resolve.

We need an open, thorough debate about the future of the EU and our place in it or out of it. The politicians can campaign however they like but it shouldn't just be up to them to decide.

A single currency can work across one country with one leader, but across many European states each with their own leadership? There are just so many things that can go wrong. It's like putting a lot of eggs in a very large basket.

The EU and the Euro are experiments, only when they go wrong will anyone know what was the correct way to do things.

5 Greensleeves

Whilst I would agree that Labour supporters tend to be shrill, strident and thuggish this has nothing whatsoever to do with a working class origin. Labour left the working classes behind a couple of generations ago.

No; the shrill, strident and thuggish people of whom you complain are the well-rewarded members of the state apparat keen to ensure the continuance of their very agreeable lives. If you doubt me then the next time you watch these people ask yourself if they could get up in the early hours to either bash metal or haul cargo for the better part of the following day? Would they do voluntary overtime to ensure the rent is paid? Would they struggle on low pay just to give the kids a better start?

The shrill leftie voice you hear these days is not the voice of the working people. They are just ignored as they are not fulfilling their historic role as they are too busy worrying about the kids and how to pay for the next meal. The shrill leftie voice is one of pure unadulterated self-interest.

As for the Europe well we either get involved or get out. I am not bothered which but we could experience great savings by either accepting that Brussels does the governing and downsize government over here, or, repatriate all the government and dump Brussels. As it is at the moment we are paying twice for the same irrelevance, when once is more than enough.

Merkel is the one under pressure, not Cameron or the UK

Re 5. Greensleeves

I understand most Conservatives voted Conservative, but most of the country didn't. The Conservatives didn't get most of the votes or most of the seats. If they had, we wouldn't have Dem-Cons in power. Please don't forget why the country voted out the Conservatives in 1997, and if you don't know, look it up. I'm not saying Labour should still be in power, but opposition parties rarely win elections...

"28. At 12:07pm on 21 May 2010, StrictlyPickled wrote:
11. KMBayes

"It will be interesting to see how boy George wields the axe in light of the latest data from ONS. With the deficit being revised down from 163.4 bn to 156 bn ..."
================================

Perhaps he can use some of the 7.4 bn to fund the 6 bn needed to stop the Labours job tax. Perhaps the 拢6 bn "threat to the recovery" as advocated by Gordon Brwon was not real ? Who would have thought it.

"No doubt the tories will end up taking credit for the actions of the last administration."
==================================================
Whilst this reduction is very welcome. It takes a special kind of rose tinted vision to think that a deficit of only 拢156 billion warrants "credit"."

I not trying to say the deficit is not a huge problem. However, it's not as bad as it might have been. The initial estimate of the deficit was 拢178 billion, subsequentlly revised down to 拢163.4 billion, and now to 拢156 billion. I'm also not trying to gloss over the failings of the Labour Government. However, whilst the crisis unfolded whilst Darling was chancellor, the wheels were in motion way before he took on the role. I think he deserves credit for the decisions he made over the past two years. History will judge him as a good chancellor who played the hand he was dealt very well.

#5 Greensleevs wrote:

"Most of the country is beaming about it but the 大象传媒 has to try and put it down. Why does Question Time seem to have hand picked (although they will say not) audiences of Labour supporters?"

Blimey! I thought Greensleeves was a really annoying tune that ice cream vans play. Little did I realise that it's also a really annoying blog poster! How on earth you come to the conclusion that 'most of the country is beaming' heaven only knows!?
Though I must admit I am quite impressed that you've somehow managed to canvas the opinion of 60 million people!

32. At 12:37pm on 21 May 2010, DistantTraveller wrote:
Let's also hope that when Mr Cameron discusses these matters with German Chancellor Angela Merkel he does a better job defending his corner than he did with Nick Clegg.

You're assuming David Cameron wanted to defend his corner with Nick Clegg. I'm beginning to think the coalition was a very handy excuse for him to dump some of the Conservative policies he didn't want anyway, but felt he had to include in the manifesto to keep the troops happy.

5. At 10:33am on 21 May 2010, Greensleeves

Have you any idea how paranoid and arrogant you sound? Your dismissal of all left leaning people (I had not realised we were all shrill) is very silly. Most Labour people think that if there is no Labour govt, the next best thing is to watch the Tories tear themselves apart trying to agree with liberals. Interesting that Cameron describes himself as a Liberal Conservative. The destruction of this alliance will come from the right.
By the way, "the majority of us are cool, Conservative, calm and collected about the Coalition" - try telling that to David Davies, Bill Cash and the 1922 committee!

9. At 10:35am on 21 May 2010, sosoomii wrote:
This will probably be moderated, but if I was cynical I would suggest that the Germans are making a third attempt at uniting Europe. Only this time they are using their financial might.

----------------

Nope - left there to show how out of touch you are!

I don't believe that the decision not to join the Euro was taken with any sober deliberation but like most of our decisions concerning the development of the EU fron the Treaty of Paris in 1951 onwards, from a inability of our political class to adjust to the realities of our loss of Empire and our status as the premier World Power.
They have consoled themselves for decades with the 'special relationship' we are supposed to have with the US and ignored the political and economic realities taking place in Europe.
IThe Euro is under pressure due to the effects of bad fiscal policies in certain countries in the eurozone, then so too is the 拢 and the $ for pretty much the same reasons.
Those gloating on the Euro's problems should reflect on the effects on our economic recovery if what they seem to desire actually happened.
From the beginning the EEC/EU countries agreed to pooled sovereignty to achieve economic and social progress, the effect of this crisis will be much tighter common fiscal policies for eurozone countries as part of the price of membership.
We do not have a large enough economy to go it alone like the US and political decisons taken over the last 30 years have left severe structural imbalances in our economy.

I've been around long enough to have lived through every stage of the European project. EFTA, Common Market, EEC etc etc.

I have never been convinced it was good and the current 'state of the union' is yet further confirmation of my view.

The EU exists for politicians to flaunt their egos. Not for the people they allegedly represent.
The administration is unwieldy and its finances are rife with corruption.
It makes laws that are completely ignored by some, but rigidly enforced by others and nobody bothers.

The CAP is weighted heavily in favour of some, to the detriment of others.
It ruined the UK fishing industry and has created a gateway to our porous borders.

The fact that Countries such as Greece and others were allowed to break every fiscal rule set by the EU demonstrates how lax controls are and proves, to my mind, that a 'one size fits all' package doesn't and cannot work.

The present bail-out is only a forerunner of more to come.

The EU doesn't work and the sooner it implodes the better.

It's quite simple, really.
The Euro's worth is driven by the larger manufacturing countries within it - e.g. France and Germany.
However the greatest benificaries of the Euro are the lazy economy countries who ride on it's coat-tails - e.g. The "PIGS" - who have milked it for all they are worth.
France and Germany were dazzelled by their own rhetoric and the usual EU self-aggrandismant into believing that a golden future of intra-EU cooperation would result from a unified currency across the providers and the takers.
Yeah. Right.
As the UK economy relies less on industrial manufacturing than France and Germany but is not economically degenerate enough to gain anything from anyone's coat-tails, our economic advantages can only be generated through the flexibility that managing our own currency provides.
Especially when talentless, incredible, clunking-great-fisted-up-government policies naws it all up.

Greensleeves uses an interesting definition of the word most. He or she states that 'most of us voted conservative'. To be clear 36% of 'us' voted conservative the rest of 'us' (64%) did not. It just happens that the ConDem Alliance has generated a majority of 53% even that percentage barely 'most'.. On Europe it is just one of many areas that the ConDems have fudged. They are diametrically opposed in their principles on Europe. By the way did anyone spot that in the new agreement wherever there is an area of disagreement there is a commission. So either they hope they issue will go away or it buys them time before they have to deal with it and one party (probably the LDs) will loose out!!

The last thing the Germans need is another treaty. What they actually need is the DM and German independents from Europe.

At the present time they are being used by the others as the sow of Europe. How much longer will the voters put up with it?

What David Cameron should learn from both Sarkozy and Merkel is that there is little to be lost in Europe by putting national interest before European ones. At the moment, the Eurozone needs all the help it can get, and there is no better time to push hard on areas where the EU has failed to deliver - starting with the review of the Common Agricultural Policy, promised when Tony Blair gave up much of the UK's rebate in 2005, and which, surprise, surprise, seems to get delayed in the corridors of Brussles sine die.

Why does the left peddle this nonsense about trading with Europe and being in the Euro?

The USA, China and Russia are not in the EU or the Euro but trade happily with Europe. The EU was supposed to be created to allow the free flow of trade and people, not about economic regulation and laws.

If we in the UK left the EU it would not make the slightest difference to our trade with Europe, only an idiot (大象传媒 type or Socialist) would think it would.

If France or Germany tried to mess the UK about on matters of trade they would be cutting their own throats.

BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Porsche and VW sell hundreds of thousands of cars and vehicles to the UK as do Peugeot and Renault. We buy thousands of gallons of German and French wine each year, neither of those Countries would want a trade war with the UK.

#33, hectoring asked:

"About letting the people of Europe vote for their own President, would it end up like the Eurovision Song contest, where everyone votes for their own?"

If you care to tune in to the broadcast from Oslo next Saturday (29th May), you will learn that NO ONE may vote for their own representative.

Funny how the EBU (and, for that matter, the International Olympic Committee) can manage the fairness which seemingly eludes politicians.

Why not let the coalition government have a chance.
Why do the media hype everything up all the time, trying to find the smallest of faults. So they can justify their cushy overpaid jobs!

#37 me

My message was directly answering a point made by StealthTax, #20.

It was 100% relevant to this thread and did not break any House Rules.

This is disgraceful censorship.

Not only is the moderation painfully slow, the moderators seem to be making it up as they go, just as Vince Cable said the other day about the coalition.

We really have to adjust ourselves in this post-empire age... of course I'm not suggesting that we should join the euro now, but I strongly feel that the current turmoil will be forgotten in a year's time. Europe needs to stand up for itself and counter the imminent chinese and russian threats!

Giles Jones @ 43

You say that a single currency can work across one country with one leader, but across many European states each with their own leadership and that the EU and the Euro are experiments and only when they go wrong will anyone know what was the correct way to do things.

Let's rework that paragraph into generic form:

A single currency can work across one country with one leader across many states each with their own leadership and that the State and the currency are experiments and only when they go wrong will anyone know what was the correct way to do things.

Let's take the generic form and roughly instantiate it:

A single currency, the dollar, can work across one country, called the USA, with one leader, namely a President, across many states each with their own leadership (State Governors), the state and the currency are experiments, which are adopted over some two hundred years, and only when they go wrong will anyone know what was the correct way to do things, which the Americans achieved.

So can the Europeans with the Euro, learning from the American experience with the dollar (and regional economies moving at different speeds).

#61 me

My humble apologies to the moderators.

My message #37 (removed) was a duplicate of #36

The website told me there a problem when I tried to 'send' and it did not appear to go through - so I sent it again.

Now it appears that #36 did go through after all and therefore #37 was a duplicate. This was a technical problem, and although I did not break any house rules I naturally accept the same message should not be published twice.

@ greensleves

Hilarious, you made me laugh thanks. For a minute though I really thought you were serious there! :)

Your satirical characterisation of an ignorant, arrogant and deluded daily mail reader is spot on.

For those who think the Euro is not our problem .... where do you think the Greeks borrowed all the money (against lower rates they got through membership of the Euro) to build up a deficit they're going to have problems paying back? The answer is, mostly from France and Germany (France has the biggest stake here), and then from other large European economies, such as Spain, and us. And if they fall over, then maybe Spain and Portugal fall over. And so on. We have a relatively small (about a 20th) but still sizeable stake in each of those deficits.

Germany is looking for enforceable rules to prevent these deficits being built up against a credit line which was tacitly underwritten by the German economy. The rule is, basically, you can't run a big deficit, full stop. It may need treaties to do that. Mr Cameron is saying, no more treaties, even if, like this one, they might work in our favour (though to be fair, there is a huge danger of having lots of pet projects tied to the back of one). Face it, Euro, or no Euro, wouldn't it be a good idea if none of the European economies, including the EU, could run huge borrowing programs? If DC's the statesman he promises to be, he should be able to find a way through it, but it might help if his right wing didn't react with knee jerk little-Englander responses.

15. At 11:14am on 21 May 2010, sunderpitt wrote:
However can the Con-Dem (is it is more frequently becoming known) coalition deliver?

More frequently becoming known? Strangely I have only seen them called that by a couple of lefty posters on here like yourself. Just because you repeat a weak pun continually, it doesn't make it any more funny or clever. In this case it started off cringeworthy and quickly downgraded to pathetic. If you are trying to poke fun at the new establishment then do at least try to be original and funny otherwise you come over as just plain sad

Inchy
...
/|\

47. At 1:28pm on 21 May 2010, KMBayes wrote:

I not trying to say the deficit is not a huge problem. However, it's not as bad as it might have been. The initial estimate of the deficit was 拢178 billion, subsequentlly revised down to 拢163.4 billion, and now to 拢156 billion. I'm also not trying to gloss over the failings of the Labour Government. However, whilst the crisis unfolded whilst Darling was chancellor, the wheels were in motion way before he took on the role. I think he deserves credit for the decisions he made over the past two years. History will judge him as a good chancellor who played the hand he was dealt very well."

Please tell me we are talking about giving credit to Darling (which I'd agree with) as opposed to the utterly inept and self-serving Brown.

Aren't the 大象传媒 just dying for this to fail.

Vile stuff.

Sarkozy: as French as cycling back across the cobblestones, late Dimanche morning, with the sun shining and a baguette tucked under your sweaty armpit. You either like it or you don't. Same with the EU - it's an emotional thing; no point banging on about the policy minutae to justify what you've already decided you feel in the first place.

11. At 10:41am on 21 May 2010, KMBayes wrote:
It will be interesting to see how boy George wields the axe in light of the latest data from ONS. With the deficit being revised down from 163.4 bn to 156 bn, a drop of around 4.5%, and a month on month downward trend in borrowing, the financial situation does not seem quite as gloomy.


Now this is somewhat interesting. The original borrowing for 2009-10 was forecast by AD at 拢178bn. The budget showed this had reduced to 拢163bn and now revised down again to 拢156bn. 拢22bn is a huge difference?

KM Bates 47

My last post 71 appears to go hand in hand with yours. Apologises, just seen your 47.

44. stanilic

Good observations all round.

Yes, you aren鈥檛 the only one who has noticed the duplication of many UK & EU Government roles.

Could these hangers on also be part of the 鈥減ure unadulterated self-interest鈥� group that you speak of?

I鈥檇 say yes.

#70 Saga

"with the sun shining and a baguette tucked under your sweaty armpit"

Excellent! You make it all sound so good! Maybe you should apply to work in the EU public relations office!

johnconstable @63

You missed out that US citizens consider themselves Americans more than being Arizonians, Kentuckians, New Yorkers, etc.

So does that mean you believe an American-style political and monetary union is only plausible if all the Nations of the EU consider themselves Europeans under a European flag before being French, Finnish, Italians, etc.

If that happens you may very well be right.

However, when do you think this might occur ? (bearing in mind that 2000 years of European history is sniggering at the concept).

Anytime soon do you think?

70. At 4:06pm on 21 May 2010, sagamix wrote:
Sarkozy: as French as cycling back across the cobblestones, late Dimanche morning, with the sun shining and a baguette tucked under your sweaty armpit. You either like it or you don't. Same with the EU - it's an emotional thing; no point banging on about the policy minutae to justify what you've already decided you feel in the first place."

I'm unsure Saga - I'm undecided on Europe really. I think the Europeans are more cultured that us so we have something to learn, yet I can't help thinking there is useless bureaucrat jobs everywhere which I hate.

The 'newspaper' Bild in Germany may be the most popular, but it is on a par with the 'Sun'. They (Bild) usually have lots of scantily clad females. I wouldn't put too much credibility in what they say.
Apart from that, Nick, your column is a breath of fresh air!

STNALIC @ 44

This is what I have been advocating for 18 months.

The economically active part of the population cannot support four layers of Governance, have these "Politicos" not read Rousseaus "The Social Contract." Those at the bottom will disconnect from the State for they are having their pockets emptied for very little return.

Pro EU - Then abolish Westminster(both Houses) and Local Authorities.
Anti EU - Then abolish Brussels and County/Metropolitan Authorities.

Then spend the billions saved on Britains rotten infrastructure.

"Two layers good four layers bad", as George Orwell might have said.

62. At 2:59pm on 21 May 2010, kolazh666 wrote:
We really have to adjust ourselves in this post-empire age... of course I'm not suggesting that we should join the euro now, but I strongly feel that the current turmoil will be forgotten in a year's time. Europe needs to stand up for itself and counter the imminent chinese and russian threats!

Indeed. And also, perhaps, to be taken seriously by the US.