An email arrives
following Friday's programme:
"It was interesting to hear Melanie Griffith's views on the Veil. Since when has it been a basic requirement of "British culture" to be able to see the person we are talking to? Thousands of blind people listening to your show will, I'm sure, be surprised to hear that they are not really British. We should commence deportations forthwith."
I'm not sure whether to contact Melanie Phillips to advise her that people think the was twice married to Don Johnson and is the daughter of Tippi Hedren.
I've thought about it now and I'm not going to.
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Wow, what an early blog. SB 1, but it ain't gonna.
As I started reading that quote, I did wonder what Melanie Griffith had to do with it - but then memory got in the way because I remembered the woman if not the name from last week's show - and thus knew it wasn't that one.
Like so many things, this sounds believeable when you listen to it, but it's clearly a load of codswallop. As somebody has already pointed out on this frog (I think), we're all attempting to communicate without being able to see each other. However you wrap it up, what this is really saying is that as non-muslim, your prototypical (or stereotypical, if you prefer) Brits don't wear veils. Therefore, people who do wear them are "different". If you replace a few concepts here, like "...are tall, blonde and have blues eyes...", I think you can see where this sort of argument leads.
Hyperbole, yes. But you know what I mean.
Eddie:
In the light of your posting, I did what I would normally not even dream of doing and looked at Ms Phillips comments from her online diary:
"The prize for the most fatuous comment so far must surely go to the Tory party’s policy ‘wise man’ Oliver Letwin, who said on ´óÏó´«Ã½ TV Question Time last night that the blackout veil was no more problematic than the fact that one man wore a different style suit from another. Such is the new model Tory grasp of the threat to the west.
"A close second was Eddie Mair on ´óÏó´«Ã½ Radio Four’s PM programme this afternoon (5.15 approx) who, interviewing me down the line, suggested that the conversation we were having showed it was perfectly possible to talk to someone without seeing them, and therefore no different from talking to someone in a full-blackout veil."
Fatuous? Eddie? This is indeed a bear of little brain.
Frankly, Eddie, I think you're right - her comments don't deserve further attention from anybody.
A PS to my earlier email on this: I've just noticed that the woman has the affrontery in her posting to give the time of the interview - presumably so that her 'fans' can 'listen again'! What vanity!
I'd never heard of this woman, but Big Sis' comments prompted me to look her up. She's a columnist for the Daily Mail. Hahahaha!
I think I'd prefer to hear what Ms Griffith had to say on the issue.
Ah, Big Sister, you have to remember that, to Ms Phillips, the ´óÏó´«Ã½, The Grauniad, Times, Indy, Torygraph papers, etc are all part of a vast "Liberal" conspiracy, trying to undermine Western Civilization through political correctness etc.... Really, I think she wants to be the British version of Ann Coulter (shudder!)
Yes, Fred, I have had the misfortune to 'meet' this particular 'bear' before. Also heard her unleashed on the Moral Maze. She is one of those souls who, for me, stretches my tolerance of free speech to breaking point.
I'm not even sure I find her 'entertaining' - very po-faced, etc. At least with folk like David Starkers (sic) you can get a good laugh. With Ms. P all I get is tonsil exercise. My poor hound knows, now, to find a 'safe house' when she comes on the air ....
John H - In light of the above, I think I'm with you!
Mrs Coulter ? - you're scaring me now. I've only just whipped through the trilogy (to get it read, I'd heard too much about Mr Pullmans oevre, so had to read the trilogy to find out for myself, and also to "get" any cultural references, like yours FF).
Er, we're talking about "His Dark Materials" here, aren't we?
Interesting to think, in the light of FF's comments, that Ms P is quite happy to 'take the ´óÏó´«Ã½ shilling'!
Fearful that a reply I posted to JH and FF may have been 'censored' (I wasn't awfully complimentary to Ms P and the Beeb does have to watch its legal bills), I just wanted to let them know that I'm with 'em both, and yes, Fred, I do know the colour of this bird's plumage (to roughly translate a Spanish proverb).
Are you having a laugh andycrazy? I googled (oops, not meant to say that..) the name Fearless gave (I'd never heard of her) and immediately hit upon his intendend reference. I was going to make a very sexist comment, but managed to stop myself...
As for the Pullman books - what a lot we are! On exactly the same basis - hearing lots about them/too many references/etc - I decided I also had to give them a bash. Enjoyed the first one, so bought the other 2 at the same time I got myself a copy of the new TP book. Hence my "3 for 2" story the other day.
Good to see that Big Sis didn't get skootered, as she thought she might. Perhaps there's too much free speech in the UK. Hahaha!
Well, John H, how can you not have started the second book by now?
I was itching to find out what it was all about, and read the 2nd and 3rd all in one go (er, I do have some spare time on my hands at the moment, most of it used up here).
Just for balance, I'm now reading Peter Kay's autobiog, and will start on the narrow boat dog story after that (Val's posts passim).
(then I'm going to read the first ever discworld story, I've read all of TPs works in a fun random order).
That is a good question andycranberry. And one that does have an answer. I took book 1 on hols with me as a bit of holiday reading - and no real idea of when I would read it. As it happened, I read it first and couldn't get hold of books 2 & 3, so had to find some alternative book matter on which to munch. In the mood for something a bit different, I picked up a book by Lawrence Block (really enjoyed that) and then this one by Bruce Sterling. I commented to someone just the other day that whilst I'm making slow going with it (more time than anything else), the fact that I've got the TP book and those two sitting there and yet I'm sticking with "Distraction" is enough to convince me that I'm enjoying it - even if it is a bit odd.
I don't really do biogs. Auto or otherwise. Tho' I loved Clive James' set, and I enjoyed working through a big book about T. E. Lawrence. But generally, not my thing.
TP is very much my "comfort reading" and I regularly go back and read various ones. Most recently, I read the 5 or 6 about Vimes in the correct order. Real indulgence!
I see we're back to the book club ... BTW, should we seek a review from Ledge when she's read GB's speeches? We need to know that she appreciates the honour that's being bestowed on her don't you think?
I don't know, Big Sis(13)... Isn't that a bit mean asking poor ledge to read all those GB speeches?
Mm, FF, I see what you mean. Besides, it occurred to me that we would all be bored rigid by the review - 'mean to say, how could we spice up GB?
Perhaps we should let Ledge off the hook (what a weird image that conjures up!)
Oh, and if anyone has any suggestions for spicing him up, perhaps they could post them - either here or to Sarah Magnolia?
Aha! Mrs Coulter! Now I understand.
I heard an adaptation on R4's 'Go 4 it' and took against it immediately. Then I started reading Pullman's books about Sally Lockhart and liked them and embarked on Dark Materialism. Hooked. Instantly. Guzzled them all, and his book about Lyra's Oxford.
Have the same qualms about the film, though, as I've had about Lord of the Rings and Narnia
FO, did you not approve of the LotR films, then? Most of the "fans" I know were all fairly pleased with the films. I haven't yet caught the Narnia film, but read a few reviews which convinced me that they had missed an opportunity. I will definitely watch it at some point, but now I've got the impression that they made a specifically children's film, I'll need to be able to watch it with that in mind. Knowing that a Dark Materials film was in the pipeline was another reason for wanting to read them first.
Do I feel moderately embarrassed selecting books from the "older children" section in the book shop? Well, yes, a bit. But I convince myself that what I take to the book now is probably not what I took to books when I was 14 or 15. And having read "How I live now" recently, I'm even more certain of that view.
Any prepared to admit that they've read a, ahem, graphic novel recently?
Just to leap into the EMBookclub - I too am very attached to TP, a happy occurrence which came about through bedtime reading to The Kraken when he was tiny, we started with Johnny and the Bomb etc, before he (well actually after he could read, but being a boy he didn't "do" novels unless they were read to him) could read, then we melted gloriously into all the rest (though he was never so keen on the witches, so I have some gaps there, which I still intend to fill in!). When he went off to uni 3 years ago, his comfort blanket was his entire collection of TP books! (andyjim - glad you're going to try the other Terry too)
The last few days have been spent wrestling with the pc, re these returned undeliverable emails I keep moaning on about. When I finally got OE email prog opened tonight (after uninstalling loads of stuff), we had 20 more of the blighters. Does anyone out there know if the only way to escape from this is to change our email address?
We have swept ourselves clean of everything, but I suppose once our address has been nobbled it may be a fait accompli? Advice anyone?
If my memory serves me correctly (but it is 3 days later although it struck me forcibly at the time!!) Ms Phillips made some comment about it being inappropriate for someone to conduct an conversation /interview with another person swathed from head to foot in cloth. I think swathing her in cloth from head to toe would be about the best thing that could happen to her! Perhaps a contrasting mouth gag as the final accessory could complete the look for the awful Ms P!!!!
ahhh, like Frances perhaps I've just realised who Mrs Coulter is.
For my money the trilogy goes downhill as the polemics go up. hey ho.
John H(17) - yes, actually. Oddly enough I have a bookclub with mates (an excuse to meet up but good fun anyway) and I really wanted to suggest either a good sci fi or Graphic novel (just to shake them up!).
Unfortunately can't find the 'right' sci fi (ie one that's any good) and as for "graphic novels"... (btw I'm with Alan Moore who demands his stuff is 'comics' and Graphic Novel is just a marketing term). I liked "V" but perhaps a bit dated, Watchmen is good but a few of them have read it methinks and.... what else?? Joe Sacco?
For my money Chris Ware produced the best comic series with "Jimmy Corrigan - the Smartest Kid on Earth". Not sci fi. Not Fantasy. Not weird. Just a simple story of a guy who hasn't grabbed his chances and is unsure of life and finding out about where he's from. Incredibly tender and moving. Bittersweet.
Trouble is, the artwork is so good and reliant on sympathetic colur that I'd have to advise the hardback (which is a tad unfair to make the guys buy).
blimey - I've gone on but I'll post this blurting as its an old blog and no one'll mind (or read!!)
any suggestions then I'll be happy (weirdly the major-online-bookshop has lots of lists... all suggesting the same 4 or 5 books!! rubbish!!)
The Kraken has "progressed" to Graphics - I'll ask him for suggestions? I'm more of a words gal than pictures.
I find the blurtings on old blogs very comforting, many an insomniac trawl in our house, Whisht. I've read the first in the DM trilogy, and the others sit on the shelf beside too many as yet unread joys/surprises to list. Happiness is an unread book. Discuss
It may be politically incorrect to express such views, but I find the use of the veil, together with the wearing of motorcycle crash helmets and hoods when in a one-to-one situation both inappropriate, isloating, impolite and has the potential to effect a disguise. I agree with Jack Straw's position, though I am certain it will win no-one any friends. One final thought: the wearing of the full headgear could be, at the very least, 'distracting' when driving, and at worst, reduce the driver's ability to see other traffic. Integration? Come on it's more a matter of creating separate identities, communities and ghettos.
Hi Dave, I don't think its politically incorrect to say one's views. However, I don't agree with your point - and the good thing about free speech is that we can say things like this and not seethe quietly...
Ironically, I did post something here earlier as a reply, but it looks like it was 'moderated'! The only thing I can think of is that I used an example of people who are deliberately offensive in public - it seems no amount of 'letter' followed by *** will be allowed!
The fact that not seeing a face makes people uncomfortable is not my point - of course it does.
My point was that women wearing a full veil are doing it for cultural or religious reasons - I don't think they're doing it just to say "ha! i want to make you uncomfortable".
Instead (sadly for me at least) the full veil is to stop us men having inappropriate thoughts about the woman.
Unfortunately I think a full veil is more to do with men dominating women through dress and mores again. But that's arguable and rather than ban a practice, if we wish to change it we should educate (ourselves and others).