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Just heard that more children found dead in a house.
Why are we getting these terrible events one after another? What kind of a society are we living in where people seek solutions to their dilemmas by wiping out their families?
BS - I haven't heard the story but will have a look. There is a propensity in our society/media to report negative things. Positive News is a slight antidote to this and I sometimes sneak a look when everything seems to be falling apart.
I also think that these days we have such an enormous access to information and news coverage that we hear/see more of these incidents - they were happening before but we are now more aware of them.
Even so I am at a loss to explain this kind of action; there must be so much despair and desperation. The question is how can these people access aid?
It's called a secular materialist society where the only measures of worth are personal possessions or bank balance. It is a place where non-quantifiable values are sneered at by those who have not realised yet that there is more to life than a playstation.
What was that quote on 'Thought for the day'? That the majority of initiation ceremonies are to teach that life is nasty and painful, death is certain, and that most of what we regard as important really is not.
Hi Big Sis,
To be honest, I think it's always happened. It's just that we know more and more about it as communications technology becomes more widespread.
Chrissie (3);
I didn't hear 'Thought for the Day' today, since I was out of the car before it came on. But I rather wish that I had.
Sounds like a Freemasonic initiation and degree rituals. These exact lessons are passed on during those rituals. I wonder if other fraternal orgainsations do something similar?
The nub of it is that one ought to life a decent and honest life governed by a fraternal, charitable, humanitarian set of ideals not restricted to any particular religious institution. And that there are certain principles which are so important that they may even be worth giving everything for.
Kind of unfashionable now, when principles are for sale to the highest bidder and nobody sticks with anything too long in a throwaway society.
Incidentally, that's Charity not just in the narrow sense of giving cash to help the poor, but in the broad sense of loving all mankind equally.
The three character traits which Freemasons are taught to admire from day one are; giving (time and/or money) to help the underprivileged in all society, truth/honesty and that same all-encompassing charity.
And yes, I'm a Freemason. And there's nothing here that you couldn't have learned from reading a book about the society.
Si.
Simon - I'm one too. Three four. (Got my Raising next month to look forward to.)
I know it got a bad name from all the allegations about cronyism and police corruption in the 70s/80s, but I do wish Head Office would do a bit more to raise the profile and show why people are involved to counter the "does it really help your career and get you off speeding tickets?" comments.
SW and JD -
On a third date with a new fella he looked at me very seriously and said 'theres something I have to tell you'. Fearing that it would be a fatal illness, a pregnant ex or a serious criminal conviction imagine my relief when he said 'I'm a mason'. Shock factor - nil. I think some Masons make a very big song and dance out of things, whilst others (including my brother and many of his lodge) are very open and welcoming. All things to all people I guess!
No problems with freemasonry here, my dad was one and it didn't harm him ......
Appy and WW: I'm sure these things have always happened, but am not sure they've happened with such frequency.
Yes, we hear more about them, but I've always read the papers, listened to the radio - and have never been as aware of such stories as I have in the last few years. They would, in any event, have made headlines in any national some years ago, but now they're usually somewhere on the 3rd or 4th page. Which, surely, indicates that they are becoming more 'common'.
I think there may well be something in what Simon's implying. I also think that the breakdown in support networks has a lot to do with it. Not having somebody on hand with whom serious problems can be easily and readily shared, or who can pick up on signs of serious distress to try to get help to the person with the difficulties ...
BS -
Yes, these stories do seem to have slipped further back but I also question how much front page news is really news worthy these days.
It is alarming though and your point reminds me of a some similar ones made on a previous FB about the nature of extended families/community and the wider ethical code, or lack of, that exists therein.
Sis (8),
"I also think that the breakdown in support networks has a lot to do with it. Not having somebody on hand with whom serious problems can be easily and readily shared, or who can pick up on signs of serious distress to try to get help to the person with the difficulties ..."
Alas for the return of extended families with three or more generations sharing the same household. This is where we have lost the longer view, together with respect for elders (and youngers), a dire situation indeed, our atomised individualism!
As to not relying on 'each other', i.e.family, friends, & neighbours, it is a characteristic of our present culture that we expect 'the state' or agencies thereof to ensure that everything is taken care of, and that we ourselves are not expected to shoulder any responsibility, but to simply enjoy our rights to such a situation.
In truth there is no right without a corresponding responsibility, no freedom without the responsibility to recognise the freedom of others, etc.
We demand that the world be totally safe and without risk, and if something bad happens we immediately look around for someone else to blame and to sue either them or the state for compensation. Thus a farmer I know ended up out of pocket to the tune of fifty grand because he grazed cows with their calves in a field which had a right of way passing through it. A man walking his dog (on a lead and perfectly within his rights) found himself roughed up because he wasn't able to get out of the way as quickly the unleashed dog would have.
The walker had rights and responsibilities, but so did the farmer. Do the rights of walkers extend to not knowing cows with calves at foot are both protective and curious? If I stick my foot in a rabbit hole and fall, should I be able to sue?
{/rant}
xx
ed
(rant}
Another 502!
and another! (Friday March 02, 2007 at 16:01:20 GMT)
and another!
and yet another!
{/rant}
I think I agree totally with Big Sister on this one.
Families, even "traditional" ones, may live miles and miles apart. Grandparents simply are no longer part of everyday life for children - they are seen only in holidays.
There also seems to be more short term relationships - 3 to 5 years, after which there are more and more fractures in families - and thus far more difficulties in maintaining support.
This is my feeling. I have no hard evidence. Neither have I any solution. The traditional solutions really do need to be rethought to fit today's families.
EdI at 10ish
What you say about risk intrigues me. Not all people want to live a risk free life. I suspect those who are unrealistic enough to think it can exist may wish for it. I think that we all have a risk level, as we have a natural age, which alters very little. What we do is ramp up the risks we take as more and more barriers are put between us and the adrenelin rush of doing something dangerous, driving faster in 'safer' cars etc.
I grant you, walking through a field of cows with calves is dangerous enough for me, but my old bloke goes out racing a very elderly motor car, and loves it. So I like to think that we might just as a reasonable society be allowed to persist in finding our own level and sticking to it, providing we don't harm anyone else. Another chapter of the social contract?
Incidentally, the farmer of the field next to us put up a beautifully lettered notice advising walkers that 'Cows with Calves can be dangerous'. It was stolen but turned up a few days later on the Mummy and baby parking section of Bud*ens in our nearest market town.
Freemasons..or what...my brother is one of those...I thought Charity began at home...But no...it is to be seeing to do "stuff" around you locality/ and businesses...Ah he's a jolly good bloke!!!
But that jolly good bloke couldn't bear to see his mother in thte last 10 years of her life...
How sad is that?....
Jason (6);
Let me know where and when. I might be able to get over from Stockport for the evening.
Between jobs at the moment. Finished with IBM in Guildford yesterday. Interview next Friday with a representative of Norwich Union. Some slight interest shown by Nestle for a job in Geneva area. So might be free, might not.
Witchi (7);
You're in Cornwall, right? My lodge is in Launceston (I used to live down there). And there is still a tendency to secrecy in Freemasonry for historical reasons. But as Jason has commented elsewhere it is slowly starting to come out of the shadows. It might take a generation though. If your erstwhile chap brought it up with you like that it was probably because the contemporary view of Freemasonry is similar to that of illicit drugs. The scandals and stains of the 70's and 80's still linger. And there are bad apples in any group, who taint the group by association.For example the notorious M25 road-rage murderer Kenneth Noye was a Freemason once and the press made much of that.
BigSis (8);
My best feel for what underlies many of the ills in society could fill a book....
But in broad terms; families are fractured; my own parents have four kids, one each in Scotland, Cumbria, Stockport and Sussex. They are in Sussex themselves. Close ties are sundered. People, like me, are more mobile than ever before, but less attached. More single parent families, with one role-model missing, typically the father. Replacement role models are media celebrities, overpaid footballers and film stars especially. Money and fame have replaced religion as objects of worship. Every child is told that they can achieve the stars if they only reach for it, neglecting the obvious fact that someone still has to clean the streets. A properly ordered and structured society can't be established in these circumstances. Only a rat-race to reach the top and damn anyone who gets in your way.
Christine (13);
Not everybody lives up to the ideals they espouse. We are all flawed in big and small ways. Even me! It's part of being human. Anyone with religious feeling would point out that only their god(s) are pefect. A humanist will acknowledge that their are ideals to aim for, if you want to improve yourself as a member of the human race.
Your brother is the same as all the rest of us. Imperfect. Perhaps there were reasons (as he saw it) for his actions. From your point of view there may have been no reasons, or only poor ones. If one cannot achieve that charity toward all people, one must accept that it is in reality an ideal to aim for.
A Freemason who places more importance in the appearance of doing good in public and having everyone think that he's a good bloke, whilst neglecting his family, relatives and friends is not living up to the ideals promoted by the Order. He would have been admonished on his very first time in the lodge, to place his own personal connections above all other things, including Freemasonry itself. And reminded of that fact each time his lodge runs through an Initiation ceremony.
Si.
KitT,
Even those who engage in risky behaviour, e.g. ice climbing, etc., carry cellphones and are damned happy to get collected
when they get in ti=rouble. I do agree with your general point, though, but feel we as a culture have come to expect a
danger-free world moreso than previous generations. And yet we are afraid for our kids to walk to school or play
outdoors, etc.
A sad state of being, I reckon.
xx
ed
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Saturday March 03, 2007 at 10:06:23 GMT
KitT,
Even those who engage in risky behaviour, e.g. ice climbing, etc., carry cellphones and are damned happy to get collected when they get in ti=rouble. I do agree with your general point, though, but feel we as a culture have come to expect a danger-free world moreso than previous generations. And yet we are afraid for our kids to walk to school or play
outdoors, etc.
A sad state of being, I reckon.
xx
ed
Your comment submission failed for the following reasons:
You are not allowed to post comments.
Saturday March 03, 2007 at 10:06:23 GMT
KitT,
Even those who engage in risky behaviour, e.g. ice climbing, etc., carry cellphones and are damned happy to get collected when they get in ti=rouble. I do agree with your general point, though, but feel we as a culture have come to expect a danger-free world moreso than previous generations. And yet we are afraid for our kids to walk to school or play
outdoors, etc.
A sad state of being, I reckon.
xx
ed
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Saturday March 03, 2007 at 10:06:23 GMT
And a few 502s
Saturday March 03, 2007 at 14:25:37 GMT
Simon (14)
Yes, I am in Cornwall and our local lodge has quite a high profile, even holding a few open days (and I did attend a bbq as my brother is now a Mason too). I was quite surprsied, in a good way, at the range of people involved. Maybe its due to being Cornwall but there seems to be a bit more tolerance of societys/groups that are a regarded with suspicion (often born from misunderstaing and media representation) in other parts of the UK. Whilst happily chatting to friends down here about my Pagan path I started on the same tack at a friends party in Sussex....the reaction was decidely different!