Home Information Packs
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Frankly, I think Yvette Cooper is insulting the intelligence of most home owners. Of course we all know if our house has got cavity walls, and most will know about their loft lagging. Or can easily find out ....
It would be far more cost effective for the Government to provide better information about these issues than to be causing individual households to go to great expense to be told what they know. Also, if I may say so, it is the job of SURVEYORS to flag up construction issues, and I am quite sure that they could have, as part of their remit, an add on to include information about draught exclusion, etc.
I'm all for energy conservation, but HIPs won't improve that.
I vote for a HIP replacement!
The Conservative spokesman stated that a month ago no Energy Assessors had been accredited; this was due to the accreditation process not being available until the 19th April; as at April 15th hundreds of assessors (myself included) had satisified all criteria including a Criminal Records Bureau check and were waiting for the admin side to catch up with us. Furthermore Home Inspectors, of which there are over 1,00, are qualified to issue Energy Performance Certificates and have been since they qualified.
When will the Conservative Party argue from point of fact rather than lies and hearsay?
Home Information Packs
I have a house I am almost ready to sell
I have contacted several Estate Agents locally (just outside Birmingham) and I cannot find ANYONE who knows what they are supposed to be doing with HIPs
They do not know who is spposed to prepare them, how they are to be presented, or what is supposed to be in them.
The last very nice lady I spoke to, in a branch of a national company, said the Manager kept going to meeting all about it but never came back any wiser than when he went.
She talked wbout the Energy Certificate but again had no idea who was going to prepare it or how they were to go about it.
If the Estate Agents have no idea - what chance the rest of us?
Hi Eddie
Have I missed something? I thought the new sellers packs were to make the sale of houses easier and less time consuming. How can info about whether there is loft insulation - or not - make a sale go thru' quicker?
Home Information Packs
I have a house I am almost ready to sell
I have contacted several Estate Agents locally (just outside Birmingham) and I cannot find ANYONE who knows what they are supposed to be doing with HIPs
They do not know who is spposed to prepare them, how they are to be presented, or what is supposed to be in them.
The last very nice lady I spoke to, in a branch of a national company, said the Manager kept going to meeting all about it but never came back any wiser than when he went.
She talked wbout the Energy Certificate but again had no idea who was going to prepare it or how they were to go about it.
If the Estate Agents have no idea - what chance the rest of us?
The forgotten people in the whole HIP fiasco are those who initially paid out over 拢10k to train as Home Inspectors to do the then mandatory Home Condition Report. Many walked away when these were effectively scrapped ( made voluntary) but many faithfully stayed to become either HI qualified, or become one of the NEW energy inspectors. This was & still is being sold as a good career. Brilliant prospects, perhaps, maybe, sometime, if the policy is ever implimented. But wait... now the market is desperately being flooded with new trainees who can pay 拢2k and qualify in 4 weeks for this fabulous new opportunity, no previous experience required, just 拢2K. The June 1st deadline can only be a shambles with untested IT systems and people fresh from a rushed short course.
The whole thing has been cruel to so many people who from day to day are unsure whether they have future job prospects or not, and if they do, what callibre that job may be.
But we are told that the government owes these people no duty of care and that U-turns in policy are acceptable even when they effect so many individuals.
Presumably when it actually hits the home owners and big property investors hard then the government may listen.
Most people to wish to make their home sound as good as possible when selling.
But if you have not made further efficiency alterations since the last "HIP", then why pay again for the same information?
If you have, then you will update it in order to achieve a better selling price.
In my opinion 10 year old energy efficiency surveys are adequate.
Most people to wish to make their home sound as good as possible when selling.
But if you have not made further efficiency alterations since the last "HIP", then why pay again for the same information?
If you have, then you will update it in order to achieve a better selling price.
In my opinion 10 year old energy efficiency surveys are adequate.
Hi Eddie
Have I missed something? I thought the new sellers packs were to make the sale of houses easier and less time consuming. How can info about whether there is loft insulation - or not - make a sale go thru' quicker?
I fail to see how adding several hundred pounds (between 拢400 and 拢800 are the costs I've heard) to the cost of moving house is going to 'save home buyers money' as Yvette Cooper claimed during the interview!!
Typical New Labour double-speak!!
Why did you allow the christian footballers to get away with such utter nonsense? If they had been politicians you would have grilled them mercilessly.
Anyone who is interested in buying my house is welcome to see my fuel bills for the last year. Isn't this what they really need to know?
The Conservatives and RICS are doing their best to support the vested interests in the property market (the Law Society, the Estate Agents, RICS, etc.) from blocking a scheme that might help ordinary people in an unfair marketplace.
At the moment solicitors and estate agents can engage in all manner of unfair practices with almost total immunity. The Law Society and National Association of Estate Agents are totally useless and these bodies are in reality nothing more than trade unions for the respective professions.
There is a strong need to even the playing field and bring more scrutiny to the marketplace.
I support the scheme because it will increase transparency and even more important the energy ratings on houses will help people become more energy efficient in the home and reduce CO2 emissions.
Most people to wish to make their home sound as good as possible when selling.
But if you have not made further efficiency alterations since the last "HIP", then why pay again for the same information?
If you have, then you will update it in order to achieve a better selling price.
In my opinion 10 year old energy efficiency surveys are adequate.
This is another example that shows how highly paid Labour MPs have lost the plot.
Can they explain how they expect the people who are forced to sell their home because they can't afford mortgage repayment are going to pay for it. This is going to cause repossession in mass scale and they claim they know about the economy!
Yvette Cooper and the minister who followed her could have been answering the same questions.
Their bland refusal to aknowledge the truth has put another nail in Labours coffin
Aren't we forgetting something here? Its just another way of making money. Why do we as home owners have to pay for the work that could be easily done by estate agents or surveyors.I wouldn't mind if it wasn't for the cost. Actually I've always felt resentful towards those homeowners who cut corners with getting home improvements done on the cheap and not getting planning permission setc whereas I've always paid to get it all legal, hence it will benefit me when I sell as I have the proof as I have paid for it, whereas the others homes will be of less value, so it should be. Its all a game we have to play with rules, but its the cost that gets me...to do my own admin!!!
Two points:
1 Genuine HIPS trainees could be very usefully repositioned as advisors and should be compensated for the inconvenience and cost they incurred in a major Government mess.
2 The scheme is deeply flawed and would simply push up house prices and provide a happy hunting ground for lawyers.
Home Information Packs will speed up the process of buying a home. Weeks will be shaved off the agonisingly slow legal process - no more waiting for searches to be done. So fewer sales will fall through.
Estate Agents will get their fees sooner - so their cash flow will improve.
We'll all have information about how to improve the energy efficiency of the property we buy (and how many buyers really stop to think about cavity wall insulation when they look round a property? Yvette is quite right.)
Nearly all sellers are buyers - so what goes around comes around.
So everybody wins!
What is all the fuss about...
Anyone who invested their money to train to be a HIP inspector has only themselves to blame.
It has been obvious to all that the HIP scheme is nothing more than another stealth tax, and indeed the money paid by these would be inspectors is pretty much the same too.
These people would become nothing but money grabbing parasites, probably becoming even more unpopular than estate agents.
They will not get any sympathy from me.
P.S. no relation
The most telling comment was that the surveys that should have been part of the HIP was removed 'because you could never get the lenders to agree'. Why not after all do they not require the same sort of information? Do they not all use accredited surveyors (often the same as eachother)
Mayby because they get a nice cut on each survey. If I have a house surveyed today and drop out of the bid tomorrow can my mate use my survey for the same lender? No, why not - because the lender can get another cut of amnother survey, probably by the same bloke.
The government should have the courage to make this pack worthwhile and take on the moneymaking of the lenders. If it is just loft insulation and cavity walls then I can look myself I do not want to pay hundreds for something that will not influence the sale - I could spend it on the insulation!!!
why does the bbc (and others) keep mis-reporting on HIPs with regard to cost. All the information in the HIP except the energy certificate would have to be provided and therefore paid for anyway, so the hype of HIPs costing 拢500-600etc is totally incorrect. What has happened of course is that because estate agents have volunteered themselves to kick off the HIPs process they will take a cut together with the panel manager and even the pack provider. If people think about their sale in advance they can quite easily commission an energy certificate themselves and the the one the government should do is the have their own register of Domestic Energy Assessors for anyone to access. As someone who has done my own conveyancing about 12 times it is in fact quite straightforward to obtain the rest of what goes in the pack yourself without middlemen taking a profit. You deeds (register entry) can be obtained from the land registry for a few quid (you solicitor or building society should have them already anyway) and the local authority and water searches are easily filled in forms for about 拢200. An energy certificate direct from a local assessor is likely to cost in the order of 拢60 for a small flat to 拢120 for a 5 bed house. On an average 拢200k house an estae agent will get about 拢4000!
Surprisingly many people do not know where their houses leak most energy and really could benefit from some guidance about their own property rather than of a general kind. This is quite obvious when you consider how much money people waste on double glazing thinking it will reduce their energy costs drastically (and photo-voltaic panels come to that!).
So, how about some accurate reporting on the true extra cost of HIPs i.e about 拢100, rather than following the mis-information being spread by special interest groups such as the RICS and estate agents?
Sean (6) I'm not sure how the HIPs will stop unfair practices by unscrupulous solicitors and estate agents. Can you explain what sort of practices you are referring to? Do you have data to support your assertion that there are unfair practices going on?
I ask this only for clarity in the discussion. Any debate over a topic needs to be fully supported on all sides by facts, as I'm sure you will agree.
FFred
So HIPs are now important for energy-efficiency reasons, are they?
Well, many flats are in buildings where leaseholders are forbidden from altering the structure, and in some cases much of the building's charm lies in features [like high ceilings, large windows] that make it 'energy inefficient'. People buy such flats quite happily, not because they are energy efficent, but because they look nice.
And this aside, as any fool knows, the main factors in buying a property are 'location, location, location' [schools, work, transport, roads].
So what real use is a Pack where - as the Minister rather desperately seems to claim - the energy efficiency certificate is the most useful document? Answer: no use at all!
Isn't the real truth that Ministers are now clutching at straws because the surveyor's report will not be included [predictably, buyers and lenders will not trust reports commissioned by sellers]. All hugely predictable, all hugely problematic, all hugely bureaucratic - welcome to the crazy, interfering, half-baked world of NuLabour!
Hi Eddie
This Government will never admit when they are wrong. Unfortunately they never think things through properly. The HIPS procedure will not speed up the buying and selling of properties in fact the housing market will probably stall for a time. If that happens then the Government will lose out on the exorbitant amount of Stamp Duty it charges on the bulk of properties and will need to find the difference from somewhere else probably in more hidden taxes.
Most people when they are looking for properties are not concerned about how environmental friendly they are more about the state and condition, the location and value for money. Indeed most of the properties in this country are old and therefore do not have all the requisite things to be fully eco friendly. If they do want properties to have these Energy Certificates it would make more sense that when the surveyors visit to do the mortgage surveys they carry one out at the same time as no lender will accept what a seller's survey or certificate says. It will just add to the cost of the whole procedure with no real benefits.
So the RICS are going for a Judicial Revue of the HIPS on the basis that they haven't been consulted enough, and to protect the population.
Outrageous.
They have been involved in the consultations for years.....and have been taking 拢1000s of pounds from people who signed up to their courses to train for...... Home Information Packs.
Furthermore, it is my suspicion that they are only trying to protect their members, some of whom are the same 'property professionals' who do 'drive-by' valuations' for the lenders) for which you pay every time you need a mortgage.
A lot of the anti-HIP argument has stressed the extra costs involved, but forget to mention that the cost of searches etc. have to be met in every house sale/purchase.
I can't believe that the cost of the Energy Performance Certificate (about 拢150, and the only'new' cost), is going to affect how you market a property, and it will soon be repaid by observing the recommendations suggested in the EPC for the next house you buy.
This Government scheme is absolutely ridiculous. I have been involved in the property business for more than 30 years and know more than most about how it works. Will this Government ever listen to people who know what they are talking about? The E.P.C. Is a worthless expense. I have a member of staff undergoing the relevant training course and it is looking like producing a document which will insult the intelligence of the average home owner with a 拢100 plus fee ( not counting the V.A.T). Scrap it please.
I don't mind the cost of the course being wasted.
Whereas I support the laudible idea that paying for only one set of information per house (rather than per prospective purchaser) is good in principle, I have some concerns:
1) Why it is being introduced in the high selling season? Why not postpone it to the end of the year? Isn't this a little like repairing the M5 over a bank holiday weekend?
2) One of the highest cost is the survey(s). But I understand this isn't an element of the HIP.
3) I don't buy the eco arguments. As has already been mentioned here the energy efficiency can be easily and adequately estimated for most homes either by buyers or their surveyors. This seems to be a political requirement.
If it were up to me I'd suggest postponing the process change until October. I would include a compulsary survey that is acceptable to mortgage lenders. I would make the eco report optional.
Sick of this half baked Government. Not a single project involving IT has been carried out and most are designed by our Civi Servants who have yet to prove themselves on any impkementation that actually works first time.
This Pack is utter nonsense and I have just heard our "future PM wittering on about how to tell folk fit draught ptoffing.
Get a life Gordon and leave us to work with the Home buyers and their Professional Advisors,. Keep out of what doesn't concern you.
The best idea is to keep it simple...the first prospective buyer to get a survey should be able to share the cost with susequent potential buyers. The Estate Agents could sell copies for up to three months after a Pro Survety(to protect any changes in the survey status. Dead easy and cost effective for all. The energy element is nonsense, there are thousands of businesses out there all advertising energy products, let the Buyer make theitr mind up on what the economics are. If the Gov wants to help[ then it should give grants from the VAT it collects from Fuel duty for housing energy improvements.
Re the government's change of mind and training of junior doctors my son was unable to attend his brother's wedding in Malaysia in March due to interviews being altered. He changed his airline tkt to June for a hol (it is non refundable) cos jobs were due to be announced in April. Now lo and behold that date has been changed to June. Patricia Hewitt is completely and utterly unfit for purpose and should resign. She has caused enormous stress to junior doctors throughout the country and many will simply leave and train abroad.
The government has spawned a multi-billion pound industry as a result of the proposed introduction of Home Information Packs. All of this has to be paid for by a seller.
While I have no objection to the Energy
Performance Certificate being provided to a buyer if that is what the Government has to do under EC Legislation, in 36 years of practice, I have never been asked about the energy efficiency of a home, nor has it been an issue. The 5 page certificates will give some information which may be of interest and a lot of technical detail which the average home buyer will never read or understand.
The requirement for an energy performance certificate does not require the Byzantine set of rules and regulations which will not simplify or speed up the process of selling your home. It will add substantially to the cost, especially if your home does not sell reasonably quickly because some elements of the packs, such as searches have to be renewed periodically so that they will have to be paid for twice over, possibly more.
The rules on the contents of the pack are such a mess that much of the information provided will not be acceptable to a buyer's lender or conveyancer. If you are selling and buying, you will have to pay for searches not only on the property you are buying (as now) but also on the one you are selling, but the search which can be provided will not suufice for a buyer who may then have to carry out their own search anyway.
There are ways in which the Government could speed up and simplify the process of buying and selling, but Home Information Packs is not one of them. The big players will be rubbing their hands but it will be at the cost of the poor home owner.
Let's try and put this all in perspective.
The present system of selling houses allows a vendor to market a house at no cost, until contracts have been exchanged. If a buyer is interested in purchasing a property then expenses such as searches, surveyors and specialists can run into thousands of pounds and there is NOTHING to prevent the vendor pulling out for any reason. This occurance is common place in the market at the present time and leads apparantly to approximately 20% of sales falling through at a cost to hapless buyers of circa 拢1 million / day.
At no extra cost (because these things have to be done sometime in the selling process) the searches with a HIP are done at the point of marketing along with the Energy Performance Certificate (a small extra charge to help save our planet). If you combinded this with a Home Condition Report a potential purchaser would have sufficient information to make a sensible decision on whether or not to purchase and at what price. there is then nothing to stand in the way of exchange of contracts, apart from a mortgage valuation the sale is as good as completed
So what is all the fuss about?
People don't like change and are not prepared to listen or try to understand.
As a qualified Home Inspector who has invested heavily in a career change I just want to start working in a professional manner for a reasonable income and return on my investement. The only thing that really worries me is the thought of newly qualified DEA's (Domestic Energy Inspectors) rushing around trying to do 6 to 8 energy Inspections a day doing shoddy work, earning money for middle men who are trying to profiteer from the industry.
In 6 months time we'll be saying what was all the fuss about and what a fantastic new system we have.
The HIP, as far as I am concerned, will cause me to stay where I am. Perhaps I may have considered downsizing but that will now not happen - unless a potential buyer does what has always been done, pay for their own survey! These HIP's are not a way of releasing houses into the market place it is just another way of creating "jobs for the boys". If the Government were serious about insulation and energy efficiency then they should remove VAT from materials and devices to achieve these objectives. A little more "carrot" and less "stick" and cost is the best way.
Hips are a con. The Government wants sellers to pay for the information on house energy efficiency it needs to comply with treaty obligations. There is no need for a "home information pack" What house buyer has ever read a local search? No one will do other than the minimum. The latest regulations are as much as abandonment of hips as could be envisaged without losing face altogether. The only people in favour are the big companies hoping to make money out of hips and corner conveyancing also. There is no reason why an energy performance certificate can't be obtained for next to nothing - the buyer should do it as part of a survey or mortgage valuation. The extra work is minimal and the additional cost minimal also. Energy assessors will get about 拢45 of the 拢145 cost to the seller. Big business gets the rest. Enough said.
Let's face facts- HIPS are opposed vehemently by Chartered Surveyors and estate agents. Both of these "professions" are completely unregulated relying on keeping themselves in order. This may explain the appalling reputation of estate agents in particular (perceived by the public as as dishonest as the average journalist).
They fear that reform of the house selling process will unearth all manner of inefficiencies, dishonesty and incompetence on a scale only matched by British Leyland during the 1970's. I know as I work at an estate agency and cannot begin to describe how the buyer and seller's interests are the least important in the house selling process.
Any changes will help the ordinary person in the street and it would be interesting to see how Mrs. Thatcher would deal with these vested interests.
Having ditched, (quite rightly), the requirement for a survey to be included in the HIP this Government is persisting with the energy efficiciency survey/report not so that the buyer will be better informed, (and let's face it you buy a house because you want it, not because it is energy efficient), but because the surveys will be used to create a register, (like the Land Registry), which will be used to tax energy inefficient houses in years to come. No ordinary house will ever be 100% energy efficient without expending thousands of pounds on the solution, which people won't be willing to spend once they own a property. The energy efficiency survey is therefore the thin end of a long stealth tax wedge.
Aren't we forgetting something here? Its just another way of making money. Why do we as home owners have to pay for the work that could be easily done by estate agents or surveyors.I wouldn't mind if it wasn't for the cost. Actually I've always felt resentful towards those homeowners who cut corners with getting home improvements done on the cheap and not getting planning permission setc whereas I've always paid to get it all legal, hence it will benefit me when I sell as I have the proof as I have paid for it, whereas the others homes will be of less value, so it should be. Its all a game we have to play with rules, but its the cost that gets me...to do my own admin!!!
What is unsurprising is that this foolish scheme emanated from the discredited and abandoned Office of the Deputy Prime Minister.
No-one should shed a tear for the disillusioned recently trained Home Inspectors who would cheerfully have added yet another tier of unnecessary bureaucracy to the house buying chain.
Quite obviously almost all of the information in the pack will be dated very quickly and not be relied upon by any competent conveyance solicitor.
The Energy Reports are not required to be in place by the EU for a couple of years yet and will hardly make any difference at all to a prospective purchaser unless the report is in the, unlikely in Uk, A/B category.
If the Tory鈥檚 made it clear the scheme would be scrapped under their administration and suggested something like the admirably unencumbered Scottish house selling r茅gime HIP鈥檚 would be dead in the water.
The nanny state strikes again! Do they really think that a hip will influence the majority of peoples buying decision? They're crazy. Don't they have something more important to do to stop them 'tinkering'?
Perhaps it's just a job creation scheme to fuel their false economy!
I have to first declare my interest in this subject for I am training to be a Home Inspector.
The government have presented the case very poorly and unfortunately have bowed to pressure from established professions within the property industry who have significant revenues to lose. The combination of poor planning and extreme pressure has created a totally unsatisfactory situation with misleading information being spread through all media.
In reality this legislation is trying to achieve two things:
1. Speed up and improve the house buying and selling process which is in desperate need of reform.
2. Meet EU regulations about measuring and reducing CO2 emissions by making better use of energy and housing is one of the major contributors.
The HIP pack will provide buyers with information up front and enable buyers to make an informed decision before making an offer. The major change is that the seller has to pay for these documents rather than the buyer. As the majority of sellers are also buyers, there will effectively be no difference in the cost of moving. The stamp duty and estate agent fees will be approx. 90% of your costs still.
Ask anybody who has moved recently and they will understand the benefits of having essential information up front, it has cost my daughter time, money and considerable stress when she had to pull out of a sale on the recommendation of the solicitor.
The second issue of energy is completely separate and required to be implemented before 2009. We all have to do our bit to reduce carbon emissions. Don't wait for the planet to warm up, do something today but most won't. The EPC (Energy Performance Certificate) will give the buyer an indication of what they could invest in to help save money and contribute to a better environment.
It will not cost more than 拢120 - 拢150 for the average house and we as inspectors have to build the knowledge to help home owners get the best value. Just like when the MOT was introduced there was a stink about the cost but now we all accept them as good practice. If you see a car belching out smoke something inside you churns, the same with houses, we have to care for our environment and what we leave for future generations.
Within the industry we are dismayed and incensed the biased reporting of our industry, our profession and the objectives many of us want to achieve. There are elements that are after the fast buck, we know who they are and hope they move on quickly.
I finish with the question, would you buy a car without knowing it has passed its MOT and had a good service history. Many people today buy a house based on little more than they like the look of it.
Whole new industries have been launched based on HIPs and Energy Performance Certificates, and huge capital investments have been made. If the Government U-turn again, just like they did over the Home Condition Report, there will never be any confidence in any new Government initiative and all future ones, good or bad, will be blighted by organisations being unwilling to commit their support. We will never be able to be pro-active again in case the Government decides to blow away our investments because of noisy pressure groups. Give the HIPs a chance, and then tinker with them when the stable effects are seen.
Let me declare my interest in the HIPs debate. I am leader of anti-HIP lobby group SPLINTA, supported by over 1,800 firms of estate agents, surveyors and solicitors. I am commercial director of Harrison Murray a 20 branch estate agency. And I am a director of HIPSASSURED, a pack provider.
This issue has become polarised because the government lost sight of the original purpose of HIPs - which was to improve the home buying process. Instead this has become all about delivering the requirements of the European Union directive for every home sold to carry an Energy Performance Certificate. Anyone who challenges HIPs is now portrayed by Labour politicians as 'anti-green'. What utter nonsense!
The hard fact is that HIPs as they stand will make little difference to the home buying process as, despite the disingenuous comments by Ministers, the REAL reasons why there is stress and waste in home buying is because of human nature. Buyers and sellers change their minds and the HIP will not alter that fact. Any estate agent will tell you that very few sales fall through because of last minute information coming to light and the HIP is just a bureaucratic and wasteful impediment to the market.
When will Ruth Kelly and Yvette Cooper wake up to the fact that they could get rid of the hated and useless HIP and still have their beloved Energy Performance Certificate? Just make it a mandatory document at exchange of contracts - to be done alongside the mortgage valuation inspection.
I say to Ruth Kelly and Yvette Cooper, 'TAKE A STEP BACK AND STOP CHARACTERISING GENUINELY CONCERNED PROFESSIONALS WHO MAKE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM OF HIPS AS VESTED INTERESTS AND ANTI-CONSUMER.'
To REALLY improve the home buying process we need a radical, root and branch reform of the way in which property is transferred in this country. And we want estate agents regulated and qualified. A huge proportion of the property industry would support such a change - in direct contrast to the universal opposition to HIPs.
May I take this opportunity to support the Government in bringing regualtion to the industry.
The organisations against HIPS are the ones that have the interests at the moment i.e RICS & CML and Estate Agents.
They are all saying that HIPS are a waste of money, they are all forgetting certain things such as:
RICS decided to become a training provider then turn their backs on the people that trusted them. RICS have monopolised the market. They forget that RICS hombuyer surveys are half the problem him with caveated reports, often missing out on items.
CML charge extortionate amounts for valuations etc. For what a 10 minute brief inspection.
Estate Agents fees have remained at the same level for the past fifteen or so years even though the house prices have risen drastically.
HIPs are a good idea and with a voluntary HCR are even better. They will make the housing market more transparent and speed up the process.
People are generally against change. I have been taking part in the HIP trials and have been pleasantly surprised how many people thought it is a good idea.
The press have skewed the truth and have also got their facts very very wrong. Number of qualified home inspectors/dea's, price of the HIP 拢1,000 etc.
The Lords have been ill advised to try and sway them against HIPS.
Lets hope the Government is strong enough to stand by their convictions and oush HIPS forward on the 1st June and then agree a mandatory date for HCRS
I fear John C is in danger of believing the sales spin that led him in to training as a 'Home Inspector'. Did he ever wonder perhaps about the homeowner鈥檚 reaction to him when presented with an unwanted inspection by, at best, a partially (very) trained surveyor?
Without the Home Condition Report being required and thousands of 'overnight' Energy Consultants vying to provide cheap Energy Performance Certificates the future looks bleak indeed for his 鈥榩roffession鈥.
I will be selling my house this autumn and I am looking forward to viewing properties I am interested in that already have the title deeds, planning permissions and searches there before I make an offer. In the past we have gone through heartrending times after our offer has been accepted waiting for the title deeds, waiting for the searches, making the whole process take three or four months with the risk of someone pulling out. I think solicitors use "waiting for the searches" as an excuse to ignore our file for as long as possible.
I see only good in having these things up front, It should take 4-6 weeks off the horrible time of house buying. You have to give your solicitor the money for the searches in advance now when you buy, so what's all the fuss about paying the same money when you sell and not when you buy?
John C (40) Good point, well made, John - the car analogy is a good one. However, we have all been well-educated in the necessity of having a full survey done before we buy a house, and I still can't quite grasp why the onus has to shift from the purchaser to the vendor. In my experience, the surveys have been done very promptly, and it has been the solicitors who have drawn the porocess out, to the extent of loosing a sale on one occasion. I can see the nonsense in multi-surveys being done on the same property,by would-be purchasers, but if I were buying again I would have more faith in a surveyor who was working in my interests rather than the seller's.
After all, I still get my second-hand cars checked over by my own mechanic, rather than take the MOT as proof of its quality.
HIP s are not wanted and will add to cost with little benefit, certainly the cost outweighs the benefit.
I think that nobody will be deterred form buying a home because of its insulation qualities.
If the government wish to improve home insulation there are plenty of other ways to persuade home owners to install insulation e.g by tax incentives or subsidy or a further tax on energy.
Scrap the HIP's
If I see a house that I really like but it has a poor HIP write-up, should I not buy it?
please can anyone tell me how RICS can try and scupper hips on one hand yet still be advertising there safe as training scheme on the other????
Can RICS and the LAW society for that matter tell me and the rest of Britain how it is they feel they have not been consulted?
could that be that they are happy the way things are?
I think it was the vested interests of the council of mortgage lenders that managed to get the home condition report removed from the hip which i feel was a bad thing.
when the building societies take a large administration fee from the mortgage valuation(note i have not used the word SURVEY) perhaps we can all see why these bodies should be so against anything new
I speak as a qualified Home Inspector and 'informed' Estate Agent. One of the major problems here is the complete lack of understanding by the consumer ably assisted by a serious amount of misinformed reporting by the press. The Home Information Pack as originally envisaged with a Condition Report, was an excellent plan - giving the house buying public the opportunity to make an educated and informed offer on the property he wishes to buy. Sadly that has been dropped and much of the fault must lie with Mortgage lenders who are keen not to lose their excessive Mortgage Valuation fees! Many homebuyers presently think they are having a survey - they are not. The process of buying and selling is cumbersome at best and conveyancing could be streamlined by provision of much of the information in advance. Fees are wrongly quoted - the HIP will cost between 拢300 and 拢400 - and the only new cost is for the Energy Certificate - hardly excessive at about 拢100 a time.
Estate Agents and Surveyors are told by their governing bodies that they want HIPs scrapped, and they actively campaign to do so, yet these same organisations are happily raking in the fees from providing the training courses! Now there is a scandal!
My advise to the consumer - get the facts straight, talk to those who do actually know what its all about and then make an informed decision!
In a free market, the buying and selling of houses is a matter for the individuals concerned and no one else. Caveat emptor! This so-called government and that job creation scheme known as the EU should mind their own business.
As ever, has a wealth of information on HIPs.
As stated elsewhere in this thread, the main intention of HIPs is to reduce the number of property sales that fall through after an offer has been made, by placing the emphasis on the seller to provide the information up-front, rather than the buyer. Theoretically, a well-constructed HIP could save the buyer money, as they will only need to commission the relevant searches for their own property, as opposed to every property they're interested in.
However, if each potential buyer only has to commission one HIP, then the various parties responsible for providing the information in the HIP will have less custom and therefore less money.
When they were originally announced, I'm sure the government hoped to have a dialogue with the industry to work out what to include, how to standardise everything etc., but as the industry have been opposed to HIPs from the start, the government have muddled their way through without having anyone on board to guide and advise them.
The Energy efficiency thingy is part of a European directive, and although it could be produced seperately, you should be able to see the government's logic in including it in a HIP.
The Home Condition Report is slightly bizarre. After finding an example on the net (follow the links from the Wikipedia article), it appears to be a standardised form of basic visual survey - where each area inspected is awarded 1 for no repairs needed, 2 for minor repairs needed which shouldn't affect the value, and 3 for major repairs needed which should affect the value. So far, so good. However, it doesn't include a valuation of the property, but does include the estimated rebuilding cost (for insurance purposes).
I suppose the idea is that if anything's flagged up as 2 or 3, the buyer commissions a detailed invasive survey, which would presumably include the approximate cost of the repairs.
So potential buyers would still need to get a valuation of the property (for mortgage purposes), and if anything concerned them about the condition of the property, getting a detailed invasive survey done.
-oOo-
Meanwhile, I can't help but wonder if the panic is caused by the industry finally realising that they're not going to be able to scrap or postpone the packs, but they haven't got much time left to prepare for their introduction. Bear in mind HIPs have been a newLabour proposal since 1997.
However, since this is such a radical change of direction, perhaps it would have been wiser to trial HIPs first - make them voluntary across the country, but phase in making them permanent. For example, they could have been made permanent initially in a new town somewhere, where the majority of properties are likely to be of conventional and sound construction. If a discount to the cost of HIPs during the first month or so was made, to encourage people to acquire them and to 'bed in' the idea, then if they worked, they could spread by osmosis.
Anyway, I've waffled on long enough now - time to let someone else have a go :)
How RICS have the gall to present a legal challenge to the launch of HIPs is beyond me. I was one of the first to register on their Safe As training programme at the start of 2006. At the time of joining I was informed that there were six courses of 50 entrants being run in 2006. At a cost of 拢6000 each this amounts to a staggering 拢1,800,000 of income to RICS and their associates. They were happy to take the money but now want to pull the rug from under those that put faith in their training scheme!
wow what a load of hot air!!
Wake up people!!
The difference in cost is minimal and the small extra cost is designed to get your head round the uncomfortable fact that we all do very little about the massive waste of energy from our homes.
Something like a third of all the energy useage of this country goes on (mainly) heating our homes that are in many cases not much better than a three bar fire in a tent!
The energy performance certificate is there to say to you (in many cases) this house is lousy to heat, it will be cold and draughty most of the year, but, the good news is you can do something about it, here are wways to improve its record and, maybe even improve the likelihood of selling it by doing some very basic things, but still things that a sizeable percentage of people can't be bothered to do.
The EPC is about the environment, stupid!
Home Inspector #50,
Why are energy efficient light bulbs counted as a good point in an energy survey? In my experience, I've found just the legal minimum one cheap incandescent bulb when I've purchased a place. I cannot imagine people will leave the rather more expensive high frequency flourescent bulbs.
People are ignoring the fact that an ten-yearly energy report on the housing stock is an EU requirement. This government decided to have it as part of the HIP on the grounds that most houses are sold within ten years of purchase. That, I would suggest, is a bad idea, as homes occupied for 30 - 40 years by the same people are most likely to need advice on energy conservation etc.
As a trained energy assessor and principal of an independant estate agents, I believe that the only reason this government is insistant in introducing this legislation, against the thoughts of all the industry partners and now the consumer groups, is to get home owners to pay for an assessment of their homes energy performance. This is in order to apply a future council tax banding based on the inefficiency of your home. No one in the profession wants this legislation but most if not all would welcome well thought out changes to our laws to speed up the process and penalise the many and often time wasters that plague us all.
These new packs will be of no use to me as I intend to be carried feet out the front door.
As for Yvette Cooper, she is the MP for Pontefract. I live in Knottingley 2-3 miles away.
I had cause to write to her some yrs ago over my problems with the then DHSS, all she did was pass on my letters to her, to the DHSS.
She is as much use as a chocolate drop in the desert.
I remember hearing somewhere (probably the TV news) that most UK houses will apparently rate D on the scale.
Presumably a room with a single overhead light fitting will be considered more efficient than one with no overhead fitting but several wall lights. Then if you have multi bulb fittings, it will probably encourage you to replace them with single bulb fittings. If the inspector's coming round, hide all your portable lamps as well. Double glaze your windows, use thick curtains, place foil behind your radiators, upgrade appliances to those rated A or better, make sure you've got a full 270mm (11") of insulation in your loft (so what happens if you want to board it as an extra storage space? Most modern joists are only 100mm (4") deep, and the headroom's low enough without raising the floor 8".
Maybe the government should reintroduce the window tax (1696-1851)...
As the Lords concluded, this legisaltion does not meet it's policy objectives. What does that mean. Well, you set out to achieve something. You make a 'law'. That law enforces behaivour which will achieve the effect that you desired.
I thought the policy objective was to make the home buying and selling process quicker and more straight forward.
So why is Yvette Cooper focusing on Energy Perfomance Certificates as her defence for Home Information Packs? This has nothing to do with buying and selling of property and was just thrown into the pot as a solution to quickly implement EU regulations.
But actually it doesn't even do this. What about the people who live in the same house all thier lives and will therefore never be required to provide this information. Maybe that's for the next bit of bolt on legislation to this Heath Robinson reform.
Some of the postings on this forum look like they have been written by, er, 'loyal supporters' of the sadly-besieged Minister. Yeah, we've sussed you! But wouldn't that be rather sad? Of course! But then I suppose they are desperate and usually resort to spin! Sadly for them, it won't alter reality. Come on, people of Britain (and New Labour groupies): face it: HIPs are not wanted by the industry OR, more importantly by either side in the underlying transaction. Sellers don't want the expense and the trouble; buyers are unhappy as they will need to get their own surveys anyway to satisfy their lenders, and don't generally give a fig about the [limited] information that the energy efficiency certificate contains. (Oooh, Neville! I don't care what this flat looks like, or where it is! It's got an alpha-starred, double-plus Yvette thermo-rating! That's just right for us! Buy it now!). This is plain ludicrous. Why can't the Minister see how laughable she is becoming? The 'packs' [pathetic term for a pathetic exercise in bureaucracy] will do nobody any good. Let's all watch the chaos in the housing market! Just remember to vote for whoever promises to ditch them [the packs, that is - not Labour - although maybe it could cover both?].
The energy assessment is important because
a) It doesn't just check if loft insulation is there, is puts a pound note figure on how much your losing by it not being there.
b) Despite the fact that "people can check themselves" 20% of homes have NO loft insulation and 80% of homes have loft insulation but not enough. It costs less than 拢200 and should pay for itself in 2 years.
c) Walls lose 40% of the heat in your house, yet less than 50% of houses that could have cavity insualtion actually have it. Its costs less than 拢300 and will pay for itself in 2 years. Grant are available to help.
d) A new boilder could save you 25-30% on your gas bill, but how many people know how to work it out?. Pay back usually less than 5 years.
e) Houses emit 27% of CO2.
f) This is Europe wide. 450,000,000 people live in houses in Europe. That's a lot of C02. The world is watching.
Energy saving light bulbs are included, because you can always put them back in again if the previous owner takes them. They cost 拢1.25 in a supermarket now. The point is to show you can make a cost saving 鈥 up to 拢100 per bulb over its lifetime.
The media, and especially the Daily Mail have been grossly misrepresenting what an energy assessment is, why it's there. The story on us all probably being criminals, was to put it bluntly, negligent editing. I filled out the application form for my criminal record check tonight 鈥 a condition of being able to practice.
So what about HIPS. Well I hope they go ahead and the HCR becomes mandatory (when all the energy assessors take extra training there will be enough people able to produce them). Telling someone their house has damp and rotting timber, because its uninsulated and condensation is forming, will reduce the value and makes implementing energy saving measures more economical. Instead of just saying, some extra insulation would be a good idea.
What people don't seem to realise is HIPs are already the framework that is in place to enable this. The only change required would be to make the Home Condition Report a mandatory document instead of an authorised document. No new legislation, no big fuss.
Energy performance certificates are a grotesqe folly.
There is a plethora of much more useful information already in the hands of each housholder, namely their old bills or payment records for those fuels used in the household.
The abandoned survey, if it had been acceptable to mortgage providers, was the only good reason for this pack.
I am a trainee Home Inspector because I consider the work will be an interesting change of career but also the HIPs scheme is a long overdue reform.
Why is it that we can be taken to court for knowingly selling a defective car, without telling the purchaser, yet can get away with selling a house without having to reveal its defects and other legal restrictions on it?
I have believed for many years that the greater the professions resist a reform then the greater the need for that reform. To complain that the house selling industry have not had enough time to prepare for HIPs is admitting that they are too interested in their vested interests to face up to change. I have been doing my studies in my own time for nearly 18 months and I can only conclude that the house selling industry is run by a bunch of incompetents, because this is more than enough time to adjust the way they do their business.
The information that is going into HIPs has got to be found eventually and someone has to pay for it. It is a bit odd that there is an outcdry that sellers have got to pay for this up-front yet, if they are going to buy another house, they will be quite willing to pay for the same information on several houses, in which they are interested. If the average house price is around 拢200,000, then up to 拢1000 to provide the HIP is only 0.5%! Get real!
I apologise for having to drag politics into this arguement, but I am confinced that this is at the root of the resistance. This is a reform put forward by the Labour Government to change a process dominated by tory voters. If it had been a tory government, then everyone will be saying how marvellous it is and the Labour party would be opposing it. It is also time our politicians grew up.
I can understand how those who have trained or are training to be energy assessors, or to Home Inspectors, are feelig unsettled by this debate. It is not, though, relevant to the debate over whether or not HIPs are worthwhile.
Apart from the argument over the usefulness of energy assessments in the way that they are being conducted, there is the further issue of the questionable point of doing such assessments in properties where the possibilities of improving energy conservation are extremely limited. A major example is the challenge presented by Listed Buildings.
As the owner of such a property, I know that, apart from loft insulation and low energy bulbs, there is precious little that can be done to my, or most, Listed Buildings to improve energy efficiency. And in my own case I have already got loft insulation well beyond the recommended levels and use low energy bulbs in every situation where this is possible. At present, there are a few standard bulbs in use, but merely because there are not low energy equivalents available yet - or at least I haven't been able to source them.
Listed Buildings are subject to a huge array of restrictions over, e.g. double glazing, replacement windows and doors, etc. etc. Yet old doors and windows are extremely difficult to draughtproof, particularly since many are not 'in true'. Many Listed Buildings have extremely high ceilings, and most are not built using modern building materials or methods.
The conflict between the requirements to make a property energy efficient and the draconian (but perfectly understandable) requirements to conserve Listed Buildings and the 'look' of a Listed Building are a challenge that needs to be looked at before requiring that these old buildings are subject to energy surveys designed to measure the energy efficiency of houses built using modern building methods.
It's amazing how many people harp on about counting energy saving light bulbs. In reality the only energy saving light bulbs that can be officially counted in an Energy Performance Inspection are those that are part of a special energy saving light fitting, as anyone could change the standard bulbs as soon the energy Inspector has gone.
More misinformation from the good old press I'm afraid.
The sale and purchase of houses is not a political matter, there is an old political dimension to it (home ownership amongst we plebeians is a relatively "new" phenomenon) but Govt do not need to be involved. If we had a responsible, controlled and 鈥渁dult鈥 housing sector self regulation might be viable.
It's time to get real, Govt needs to stand-up, get out of the weeds and let us live our lives under our own recognisance. Unfortunately, as a nation we are unable to live under a 鈥渓ibertarian鈥 political system. We鈥檙e just too greedy, happy to 鈥渟haft鈥 the other guy if we can benefit.
RICS have had enough time to challenge the implementation of HIPs, why leave it until the 11th hour? If they were, in any way, committed to the system they have had enough time to petition for appropriate improvements and strengthening. Their action, or rather inaction, is symptomatic of the imbalance in the management of the housing market.
HIPs are a necessary addition to the housing sector. The implementation has been 鈥渉am strung鈥 by poor guidance and inertia by the Sector. If not HIPs then perhaps we should rework the whole sector and adopt the working Scottish system with added safe guards and strengths.
lovely, it would seem the bus syndrome is now in full effect.
No PM newlsetter for quite some time and yet, I received two for yesterday just five minutes ago.
Perhaps we should therefore now consider it broke, and fix it...
Having read many of the comments it is clear that very few understand what an EPC is measuring.
The EPC does not measure actual energy used it assesses the buildings structure to retain the heat within it AND the ability to manage/control the use of energy to achieve specific conditions in the house thus optimising the use of energy and improving efficiency.
The recommendations produced in the reports today are crude but over time they will become more and more sophisticated so that people understand how they can save money.
I have done EPCs and talked with property professionals and there is a huge void in knowledge. When I have explained what we are doing and why, everyone without exception has seen it as positive. I have even identified boilers that have a HSE (Health and Safety Executive) warning out and informed householders accordingly.
This is the first step in a long process of change. Change in how we view the environment we live in, how we control diminising resources and what we as individuals can do to improve our own situation.
Having visited many houses in a different job, very few people understand how their home works and what they can do to control energy use. People posting on here are probably more clued up, but the majority are not.
No one like change but we have to change for the sake of our childrens future.
By and large it is the buyers and sellers involved in a chain that cause problems-lots of competing interests and timescales to be reconciled,a reluctance to instruct conveyancers early so they can collate information before a sale is agreed,a lack of transparency by the parties sometimes verging on the dishonest,and greed leading to gazumping or looking for late price reductions. HIPs will not help most of these problems.
If EPCs are important,and in their intended form they seem to contain little a decent conventional survey wouldn't- make it a rquirement that sales particulars incorporate one and the Estate agents could roll the cost up in their commissions which after all are quite large ,David J
What an interesting set of responses. Thank you for them. We'll be covering the debate in the Commons this afternoon on the programme tonight - we're just discussing it now. We may well weave some of these comments into the words of MPs. Stand by.
What I fail to understand is how this will help with the major problems in the house amreket like being gazumped, not entering into a contract with your seller/buyer until quite far down the process- wouldn't it be better to adopt a system like they have in Scotland, where when you accept an offer on a house it is legally binding?
Will HIPs be held at the Land Registry with house deeds? If so what will the Government use the information for?
My heart bleeds for the new breed of Home Inspectors who will be accountable for....nothing!
I have bought several houses; each time commissioning a surveyors report costing, on average, several hundreds pounds a time. On becoming the new homeowner, I have discovered how misleading or inaccurate these reports can be. Many of the comments concerning construction have been guesswork which subsequently proved to be wrong. Of course, the surveyors are protected by 'can't-be-held-responsible-for-the-places-I-didn't (bother to)-look' clause. On the most recent survey of a house I am selling, I was asked by the buyer's surveyor (拢500 for a 20-minute visit) what all the little holes were that had been drilled and filled in the brickwork. He clearly didn't recognise cavity wall insulation when he saw it and had assumed that the house had had cavity wall insulation installed at construction; regrettably, so did my surveyor when I bought the house.
So how much better are Home Inspectors going to be? Are they going to look into cavity walls, take lights apart, check that pipes in obscure places are lagged? Will they face a financial penalty if their report is misleading, inaccurate or is guilty of omission? Will the HIP have any authority over whether or not a house is sold? To all these questions the answer is 'Of course not!' The whole thing is a worthless exercise that the government is too embarrassed to reverse. Just another way of increasing the costs to the homeowner and collecting the VAT!
having read most of the comments about hips, one point i have not seen is this, I have a rented out property, what if somebody i knew wanted to buy it from me, we agreed a price, he paid me, it became his, no survey no hip no hassle, why should i pay an extortionate fee to someone for no reason, apart from a solicitor to do the legal work?
I cannot comprehend why anyone thinks having a HIP will speed up a transaction. I am an Estate Agent and I have seen people back out because of a bad suvey, had vendors decide to stay at the last minute because their company are not now relocating them, had purchasers who have lost their jobs or even died, and purchasers who have decided to split up. Having a HIP will not stop any of this. Over the last few months on valuations, viewings and in the office I have dicussed HIPs with potential vendors and purchasers and NOT ONE OF THEM thinks its a good idea. Yvette Cooper is burying her head in the sand and just not listening to the majority of the country!