I am posting this good and early..... might as well be good on my first day back!
The Glass Box is where to talk about the content of tonight's PM. Remember though, if there are other things on your mind this is not the place. Try instead The Furrowed Brow for serious topics or for fun and frolics there's The Beach.
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The Congolese report has me in tears.
Oh, those poor women!
Oh, those despicable abusive men!
Fifi
Wonderful report from Hugh. Thank you. Though what he reports is, of course, not so wonderful.
Remember when the voilence perpetrated in Iraq was blamed on 'insurgents'?
When did ALL such atrocities suddenly change to being done by Al Qaeda?
Fifi
Congo piece.
Thank you to the editors and reporters for bringing this extremely disturbing story to the fore, however unpalatable it may seem for tea-time radio. It certainly makes you look at the world, anticipating a sunny weekend of BBQ's and fun, in a much different and real perspective. Just written to my MP on a tear splattered keyboard and feel utterly helpless and disgusted at the inhumanity sat outside our glass box.
Andy
Reading historically about the sickening behaviour of men in war and today with horrifically graphic details of the sexual violence that is happening in the Dem Rep Congo, I feel that we need a women's army of SAS trained women to go into war zones, post war zones, and refugee camps, where women and girls are also sexually abused, in order to protect them.
This behaviour is not new however, and is regarded as part and parcel of how men 'naturally' behave in wars, note Virgil, which is awash with "Rape and pillage". Such abuse has always occurred, much has been airbrushed out of news and history to save the faces of the men who commit such acts. Most of the reporting has been relayed to us by men who traditionally have not felt the need to report the sexual horrors of war.
Sexual abuse so far has only become newsworthy when found in reverse, hence the outrage over Abu Ghurayb where a woman Soldier Lynndy England sexually humiliated, note no violence took place, just humiliation. Unacceptable yes, but it had men hyperventilating from East to West, in what The Independent newspaper described in a headline as, "The End Of Morality". Dog bites man, not news worthy, this case at Abu Ghurayb was a clear case of man, or in this case woman bits dog, sensation.
There were quite graphic details reported about this sort of sexual violence in the Vietnam war. Slowly we are being given the facts about the consequences of war for females.
Men have a lot to answer for.
Eerily quiet in here tonight...
Good prog, well done Sequin and team.
I heartily agree with the others about the Congo piece - as I have on earlier occasions commented on similar reports in recent times upon the atrocities being routinely perpetrated upon women in African war zones.
It is beyond disgusting, and beyond comprehension. I remember when the details of the atrocities being committed by Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda first emerged, the outside world cringed in horror, yet the apparent resolution of that conflict didn't mean that atrocities weren't being committed elsewhere.
As I recall, Carolyn was deeply moved (as was I) by the reports carried a few months ago on Today, where women refugees recounted the horrors they had faced. It was very brave for you, Carolyn, to carry this story today, but it does need to be told - and somehow pressure has to be brought upon countries where such atrocoties are being perpetrated to set up effective processes which will work towards stopping them.
Sequin and team....Congo, thanks for having the broadcasting nounce and courage to put such a piece out. Not pleasent at all but needed telling, sadly though I think the 'ears' it should have fallen on will be 'deaf'.
Well done.
DIY
it is always good to have the excesses of people (sadly usually male soldires) reported and in some detail, but I do want to question the timing of this very graphic report from the Congo. 5:20 pm is the sort of time when parents may very well have been listening while children were around and I do not feel that they should get this sort of information via a radio report. it was pointed out before the piece that the details would be 'graphic' which is fine, but even if the parent decides to turn the radio off, the children will ask difficult questions which the parents may not then be able to answer becasue they have not heard the report! I think children should know about theae things as soon as they are old enough to ask questions and take in the facts, but these difficult topics should be dealt with in a loving, thoughtful situation and at a level that they are able to comprehend. It's not the report I object to - that was admirable - but the timing.
Firstly I must thank you for the excellent journalism in the Congo piece. Really harrowing to hear. Regarding the outragous and unforgivable nature of what these men do, I would add the thought that they are humans too, so the war has clearly de-sensitized them horribly.
However I was uncomfortable with the McCann piece being first over the Foot and Mouth findings, and also the "Mother is a suspect" headline, as your report later made clear that this has a different meaning in Portugal.
Could we have a presenter who doesn’t do the ‘tut’ and sharp intake of breath every every every single time they come in? I thank you.
I nearly switched the radio off during the Congo item - almost unbearable to hear it. Then my 88-year old mother rang asking if there was any number she could phone to give money. She spent 27 years in Africa and it was there that I grew up. Once Africa is in your soul, you can never leave it, no matter what happens. O God, grant justice for those women and the miracle of restoration despite the horror.
I didn't notice whether you covered the tonight?
A flight to 'quality debt has driven the yield on 30 year US bonds to 4.6%, while the 'target rate remains at 5.25%
Hmmmmmm.
ed
What an interesting and in parts moving programme.
Obviously the Congo piece - but also Hugh's report are items that will stand out.
Well done to Carolyn - and the team.
annasee, Fifi, RJD, and Fearless Fred, and Mittfh all popped up for a quick chat on the camstreams thingie earlier and we were all agreed - excellent!
I missed Eddie and his Any Questions extravaganza - but Fifi has related some broom falling episode. Hopefully when I listen again it will be as smooth as silk!
Also *really* missed the transport blog, en route to any questions.
Eddie - it's fun - and we love the photo's that accompany the trips.
Next time - please!
This morning I heard an interview on Radio 4 Today programme in which a journalist from the 'Sun' was interivewed regarding the McCann story. Although, I have no opinion on their possible involvement in the disappearance of their daughter, the journalist made an interesting point.
He explained that when the story first broke he wrote a short article in support of Mr and Mrs Mcann. In response he recieved 300 emails from readers which he described as bile because they all pointed out that had the case involved for example, a black one parent family his attitude would have been less than sympathetic. He conceded that this would have been the case. The media as a whole reflected this inability to look beyond the McCanns status.
Class hatred is alive and well and being stoked by a mostly vile media culture of elitist no-brainers.
My comment has not been published, but do please at least forward my suggestion to those involved. With respectful thanks.
Howdi do Everyone,
Sorry this posting is a bit late.
Many thanks for all your comments about Karen Allen's Congo piece. A really uncomfortable listen, but an excellent piece of journalism from Karen, who consistently provides us with very good stuff.
I thought long and hard about putting the report out with all the graphic content included, but in the end I thought it would be insulting to the women who have suffered so much to bowdlerise what they have been through by removing the more harrowing detail.
Meg (9), I understand your point and I did consider that before making the decision to broadcast the piece. However, because the Radio 4 network and the programme are so clearly aimed at an adult audience - there is also no watershed on radio - I think it would be a disservice to the PM audience not to broadcast on those grounds. Our warning was unequivocal. No "you may find some aspects etc", but simply: "Her report contains graphic and disturbing descriptions of the injuries the women have suffered". Yes, turning the radio off may lead to questions from children, but not that hard to answer I don't think... at least from my own experience.
And Orange Pekoe (10), I absolutely stand by the decision to lead with the McCanns. The information we were getting - much of it coming from the McCann family and friends - was that the declaration of Mrs McCann as a "suspect" was not simply a Portuguese legal technicality. It was a story that was developing all the time in unexpected ways... and although some might not like it, the story is of huge interest to people. FMD had been around since early morning and nothing had changed since 11am.
In the context of recent weeks, it was an unusual day in that there was a lot around. On a quieter day, I would have led with Karen's Congo piece... and there were a lot of good stories that simply did not make it into the main body of the programme. But not much in terms of light and shade. All shade really.
Have good weekends everyone.
Toodle pip
Rog
Howdi do Everyone,
Sorry this posting is a bit late.
Many thanks for all your comments about Karen Allen's Congo piece. A really uncomfortable listen, but an excellent piece of journalism from Karen, who consistently provides us with very good stuff.
I thought long and hard about putting the report out with all the graphic content included, but in the end I thought it would be insulting to the women who have suffered so much to bowdlerise what they have been through by removing the more harrowing detail.
Meg (9), I understand your point and I did consider that before making the decision to broadcast the piece. However, because the Radio 4 network and the programme are so clearly aimed at an adult audience - there is also no watershed on radio - I think it would be a disservice to the PM audience not to broadcast on those grounds. Our warning was unequivocal. No "you may find some aspects etc", but simply: "Her report contains graphic and disturbing descriptions of the injuries the women have suffered". Yes, turning the radio off may lead to questions from children, but not that hard to answer I don't think... at least from my own experience.
And Orange Pekoe (10), I absolutely stand by the decision to lead with the McCanns. The information we were getting - much of it coming from the McCann family and friends - was that the declaration of Mrs McCann as a "suspect" was not simply a Portuguese legal technicality. It was a story that was developing all the time in unexpected ways... and although some might not like it, the story is of huge interest to people. FMD had been around since early morning and nothing had changed since 11am.
In the context of recent weeks, it was an unusual day in that there was a lot around. On a quieter day, I would have led with Karen's Congo piece... and there were a lot of good stories that simply did not make it into the main body of the programme. But not much in terms of light and shade. All shade really.
Have good weekends everyone.
Toodle pip
Rog
1. Blood found in the boot of a car the McCanns hired 25 days after Maddy's disappearance.
So how many hire cars are there in a one eyed place like that in Portugal?
'Who had the car 25 days earlier?' should surely have been the tabloid headline.
Why was that question not raised by you Roger, Is it unreasonable or stupid? Is it unreasonable or stupid to ask you.
Can blood samples be dated as well as identified? Why didn't you ask that as well?
They were the first questions that came to my mind. P'haps to yours too. They would have been worth clearing up surely.
What IS the answer to them?
2. Ed,
Yeah, London down 2 more percent. Banks treating each other with 'fear and loathing' (Wilhelm Buiter ex - member of Merve's monetary policy committe).
More hatred from the capitalists.
(Can't find the quote on line but it was on Ceefax until yesterday)
Mac @ 18, I'm not especially following the McCann story but your point 1 did make me gulp slightly.
Could someone tell me whether if I hire a car today and it turns out that it was used in a bank heist six weeks ago I am going to be accused of being involved in the bank job, and if I am, what possible grounds there are for this in my hiring the car? It does seem to be a very strange connection to make, on the basis put forward.
*If* the blood is actually that of the lost child, there must be more to this than we've been told. Are they now suggesting that her mother has her hidden away somewhere, or something?
It feels like about a quarter of the actual story, to me.
Re: the latest OBL saga....didn't I read in one of Michael Moore's books that he is probably dead and is it not rather amazing that he pops up when needed by George Bush et al...May I all suggest that PM educated people...I presume there is a few to start looking at the works of Alex Jones...DVD's, etc...As I disciple of Noam Chomsky it is always hard to say that there is at least another man who is going to go down in history, in this epoch as great as Socrates...Jones may also go down as well....especially when you consider his take on the 9/11 issue....and finally to all at PM ..Big Brother...education and knowledge is out of the genie, there is no way it will ever go back...
Brian
Dear Roger
Many thanks for taking the time to read and respond to our comments. I understand your rationale for the order of the items - as it happens, PM was my first news of the day last Friday, so I didn't realise the F and M results had been around all day.
The following thoughts are not disagreeing with you, but me working out why I felt as I did.
It was obviously clear to you that the McCann case was moving fast, and more was going to come out, but my impression of the report on Friday was of a rehash of past events, some speculation as to what the police may be saying (I have since heard more specific allegations but don't think they were on PM), the explanation of 'suspect' in Portugal, and family saying "if they are accusing her of something this is ridiculous". It didn't *feel* sufficient to justify its top slot.
As I said, I'm not arguing with your position, just explaining why I wrote in as I did.
I think PM comes into its own with journalism like the Congo piece, and am delighted to hear that you would consider leading with such a report.
Re PAul, 14 -
"He conceded that this would have been the case."
Reluctant though I am to appear to defend the Sun in any form, that's not quite what he said.. he conceded that he hoped that would not be how he acted, but feared it could have been, rather than" [i]would[/i]have been the case". A more honest and thoughtful reply than I'd have expected from such a source.
Agree with many comments about DRC. I had only been wondering the previous week how things are in that country, so thank you for the (grim) update.
And what a nice voice I have acquired.
mac (18) and Chris's follow-up: - yes, precisely.