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Let sleeping babies lie?

Comments

1. At 05:57 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Rowena Blackford wrote:

   No time to sleep during day - cooking, cleaning, washing nappies etc filled any time left over after feeding baby. And with numbers 2, 3 and 4 - what does you 'expert' think they will be doing while Mum takes a nap?

2. At 05:57 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Lee McLean wrote:

   We are just about to start the process of moving our five month old baby into her own room, and perhaps ignoring all her early hours snuffles and gurgles. It was encouraging to hear support for such a process.

3. At 05:59 PM on 13 Sep 2007, andrea glass wrote:

   i really don't care how much sleep mothers are getting. was this really newsworthy? yet another example of plugging something i am sure most listeners are not interested in anyway.... surely one thinks about how their life will change before starting a family? if you want 8 hours sleep don't have kids. or have them and quit complaining. you have a choice.

4. At 06:00 PM on 13 Sep 2007, wrote:

   Great.

5. At 06:00 PM on 13 Sep 2007, elizabeth wrote:

   Hearing these precious mothers makes me despair. I have three daughters and have always worked full-time. The eldest is now 29 years old and I must therefore be the other generation. Not only was I brought up to believe that we were the 'metric girls' in the late 60's but we believed that we must work, have a bank account and a pension. Where has it gone wrong? I could give the mental health lecture but look to the mother and the marital relationship.

6. At 06:01 PM on 13 Sep 2007, wrote:

   We have found what we consider to be the most natural approach the best. No cot, separate rooms, night weaning and pacing the landing. Our daughter shares our bed, feeds if she wants to for the odd few minutes a night, and we have never suffered from sleep deprivation, only the pleasure of togetherness all through the night in a 'time-poor' world.

7. At 06:02 PM on 13 Sep 2007, emmy wrote:

   I have had 4 babies and am so glad i was not working. I do not think I could give my job my full attention if I did not sleep well nor could I feel like I was there for my babies if I was out working. My heart goes out to all who have to do this. We have made huge sacrifices financially for me to be at home, we dont go out and we dont have regular holidays (last one was 5 years ago!) but I dont think I could do any thing else. I sometimes wish i could afford a house big enough for the children to have bedrooms of their own but I would not be able to manage both. My children were never good sleepers and my youngest child is Autistic and has crazy sleep problems. Well done all you working mums!

8. At 06:09 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Jenny wrote:

   I was not impressed with the attitude that it's only working mothers who suffer; I have not worked since the birth of my 22 month old son and also hardly slept! He has always been a nightmare sleeper, only taking catnaps during the day, during which time there is never enough time to have any decent rest and there's always something (ie domestic chores) that needs to be done. I also have two lively dogs which is alomst like having another child re energy required. I felt Ms Henderson presented an image of non-working mothers relaxing with their feet up whilst herself and fellow working mothers bear the brunt of the tiredness. Wake up and smell the coffee!

9. At 06:11 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Elisabeth Taylor wrote:

   My premature baby weighed only 3lb 6oz and she needed to feed frequently day and night. I managed to get sleep because she was in bed with me, so when she woke for a feed, I only half woke to latch her on to a nipple. We got rather good at feeding while lying down. We carried on much the same for two and a half years.

   Getting out of bed wakes you up much more than simply rolling over to feed your babe. Oh, and don't believe the myth that you might squash her or him by having them in bed. There are lots of healthy kids out there who survived!

10. At 06:22 PM on 13 Sep 2007, dom wrote:

    what nonsense...you don't need to move your baby out of your room to enjoy a proper night's sleep. My partner is still breastfeeding our 2yr old. No getting up three times a night, no making up bottles. What we need to change is our priorities and start putting children first. I feel that we're too obessed with getting back to work in order to carry on in the material manner to which we've become accustomed and that inevitably impinges on our sleep. Having said that, much of the pressurre to return so quickly is put on new parents by employers and that has to change. Companies must become more flexible. Those who really want to return to work should be allowed to come in later in the day

11. At 06:25 PM on 13 Sep 2007, sohrab wrote:

    why can I find anything about ' let sleeping babies lie?' there is no comment or any thing to read on your website about this toppic,strange??

12. At 06:25 PM on 13 Sep 2007, averil travers wrote:

    Instead of what sounds like another parenting book along the Gina Ford lines, I would very much like to recommend Jean Liedloff's book "The Continuum Concept" to new parents. The author advocates that the baby sleeps with the parents until it leaves of its own volition normally around age 2. By fulfilling the child's need for close physical contact (ie by allowing the baby to sleep with you from birth) and reacting to the child's cries Liedloff believes that you will be helping to raise a child who will have greater self-esteem and self-assuredness than a baby who is isolated in another room and whose cries for mother are ignored. A firm attachment with the prime carer will have been made.
    If you think about it what other animal isolates its young from itself when sleeping?

13. At 06:37 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Marion Gibbons wrote:

    Moving away from feeding every four hours, 2, 6, 10, was a bad mistake that has breed many problem. I have 4 children ranging from 34 to 18 years old and I never had a problem with them sleeping.
    When I had my first child I owned and run an off Licence in south London. I kept to the four hourly feeds. After the 10.am feed my daughter would go outside in the pram in the backyard, wrapped up in cold weather, and she would sleep till 2pm when she would have another feed, then an afternoon nap again outside in the pram. After the 6pm feed she would sleep again till 10pm then sleep till 2am then sleep till 6am.
    When I had my second child, a boy, I was still working in my off licence the night before I gave birth and was back working 14 days later.
    My daughter was now 2 and I had no problems with her going to bed at 6.30pm every night.
    There is also a very old secret that has been forgotton. When the baby is inside the mother, it is snug, warm, cosy and safe. To recreate the feeling babies would be swaddled in a cot sheet and feed like this. They would then be winded and put down still wrapped up. If someone has a baby that will not sleep after a feed they should try the swaddling method. You should start these things at birth and stick to the routine because babies love routine.

14. At 06:47 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Harriet Castor wrote:

    As another person comments above, the argument that a 'stay-at-home' mother or father (were fathers even mentioned, incidentally?) can nap during the day simply doesn't work once there's more than one child. Hearing the item trailed, I was eagerly looking forward to finding out how previous generations got more sleep, but, having heard it, still feel unenlightened. I was trying to feed my 1-year-old and 4-year-old while the interview was on, though, so maybe I missed something. The advice about changing tactics re. responding to night-time crying as the child gets older struck me as very much what I have read in umpteen other books.

15. At 06:52 PM on 13 Sep 2007, wrote:

    Not so many decades ago two or three generations of a family would all be living under the same roof. A screaming baby wouldn't be allowed to keep everybody awake all night. The matriarch (usually a very experienced Grandmother) would soon put the mother straight on what was needed to be done.

    Sadly what has happened in the last twenty years or so is that families have become distanced from each other. The helpful yet firm hand of Granny isn't always available.

    Books can only go so far with "self help" - but it's support and guidance that parents really need.

16. At 06:56 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Elizabeth Everill wrote:

    I just wish Angela Henderson had written her book in the 1960s when my sons were born. Her voice alone induces calm. She ought to be on radio more often. A really inspiring and encouraging broadcast.

17. At 07:03 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Julia Warman wrote:

    I have read and used Angela's Good Sleep Guide and it is brilliant. I have to say that she didn't do herself justice on the radio. She talked about 'being strict' once the baby is 6 months old which might put sone people off. What she explains much better in the book is that sleep training is about consistency and resolve in order to teach your child the valuable and ligelong lesson of how to settle itself to sleep. Parents who have to settle their child to sleep by rocking, giving milk, having it in their bed etc are preventing the child from being able to get to sleep on its own, and return to sleep if it wakes during the night. My children both slept in my room or in with me until about 9 months when they were fully weaned during the day and had no need for milk at night. Ther is no need to rush this process but choose a time that seems right for both parents and child. My children were visibly more rested once they had learned to sleep through the night - do sleep training for the benefit of your child, not just to get more sleep yourself. Also, I have to say its not just working mothers who suffer from sleep deprivation - non working mothers have all sorts of other commitments and sometimes other children so they can't all nod off durting the day!

18. At 07:09 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Ginny wrote:

    
    It's really not rocket science. Our mother’s generation pretty much all followed a routine from day one, as was the recommended practice at the time, hence they had longer periods of sleep.

    Today it is recommended that we 'demand feed' which by definition often means more feeding at night.

19. At 07:33 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Carman wrote:

    I'm at home at the moment with baby number two and wish that alternatives to sleep training, baby in a seperate room at 6 months etc, were offered. Once my babies could breastfeed laying down in bed my nights were relatively peaceful - baby two has only had one difficult night in 7 months (yes I am very lucky and she's particularly placid). Babies want to be near their warm parents and often will settle themselves back to sleep, or have a quick sleepy feed to go back to sleep. Bedsharing works for us really well and means we don't have to get up in the night to attend to an unhappy baby, my husband gets a good nights sleep and we wake up with our lovely girl who's only a small needy baby for a very short time.

20. At 07:46 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Rachel wrote:

    I have 8 children between 20 years and nearly 6 months.I gave up on sleep a long time ago.We have 4 bedrooms so,even though the oldest "child" has left home there is no chance of a spare room for the baby and she usually ends up in bed with me.I have breastfed each child for an average of 2 years each and was a lot more disciplined with routine for the first three,but once you have school runs to do coping with tiredness becomes almost unbearable.Having older children also means that even if the baby sleeps one of the others may wake up which is usually even worse.I also find that even if eveyone sleeps I just wake up anyway as my sleep pattern now operates in half hourly bursts!Saying all that I wouldn't swap my gorgeous family for a souless 9 to 5 or even a meaningful career.The quiet hours of the morning with my darling daughter are irreplaceable.

21. At 08:22 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Clare wrote:

    This book sounds like many others that rely on simply the authors opinion on what is best.
    I agree with the other Mums who've found that by sleeping with their babies they all get enough sleep and have happy confident children.

    I slept with my daughter (on a seperate mattress pushed up against mine) until she was three, and we continued breastfeeding in the night until around this time but she moved out really happily into her own bed and own room at this point and we've never had the sleep deprivation that other parents talk about, we've just all snuggled in together and happy.

22. At 08:34 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Julia wrote:

    I forgot to say when I sent my earlier blog that in Angela's book she refers to Jean Leifloff's very interestingbook The Continuum Concept and she also says that families should do whatever works for them, whether that's separate rooms or the baby sleeping in the parents' bed - she only suggests using the sleep training technique if the baby not sleeping through the night is a problem for the parents/family and you want to change this. If its not a problem she says don't feel pressured by conflicting advice just do what you feel is right for you.

23. At 08:42 PM on 13 Sep 2007, richard wrote:

    hmmm, we followed a flexible routine with both of ours establishing a bedtime routine early on and with them being in their own rooms from day one. Gradually they drop the overnight need to feed and sleep through (7-6ish). With our first this was after about 3 months and our second is now just about there at 10 months. I appreciate that we may have been lucky with them but I do know we now have a 3 yr old who asks to be put to bed at 7pm after a busy and active day, giving us time to be adults as well as parents!

    we followed what would probably be deemed as old fashioned advice, leaving them to cry and so on, and are very glad we did!

    I shall now await the barrage of abuse for being uncaring and taking risks! but we love william and charlotte dearly.

24. At 09:19 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Victoria Greaves wrote:

    This woman should not have been given any airtime to plug her Gina Ford style views. Why do these people have children, they obviously don't fit in to their schedules. People today talk about training babies like they would dogs. It's unbelievable.

    I have a two and half year old that I breast fed for 2 yeas and didn't sleep for through for 2 years, but guess what I'm still OK and she's the most wonderful thing in my life. Why would you ever leave your child to cry, they are not doing it to annoy you, they need you for god sake.

    The love you give the love you get back.

25. At 11:57 PM on 13 Sep 2007, Rachael wrote:

    Too many books, not enough on 'trust your instinct'. People make personal choices on whether to work or not, and if so, whether to work part-time, when to go back to work, etc etc, that suit their family. They should also be 'allowed' to make choices about letting their child cry/going in to comfort, breastfeed or bottlefeed, baby sleeps with parents in bed/next to the bed/in their own room. I agree that research such as that around reducing the risk of cot death or the benefit of breastfeeding should be widely publicised, but other than that there are too many people out there with their own opinions (contributors to the blog obviously not counted in this - I'm thinking more of published authors including the guest tonight). Let's have more of encouraging new mothers to listen to their baby and their own instincts. The human race seems to have survived for rather a long time BEFORE all these books started to be published ...

26. At 12:15 AM on 14 Sep 2007, Sarah wrote:

    I am just about to go to bed and hoping that I will get 5 hours sleep before my toddler, who has been a ridiculously early riser almost since he was born wakes me up.

    I work from home and had to get a letter out to a client tonight, so I could say that I am getting less sleep than I would if I didn't work. But that would be a load of rubbish. If I wasn't working tonight I'd have stayed up to catch up on the housework and watch the Bond film on TV.

    Good night
    

27. At 08:02 AM on 14 Sep 2007, mark wrote:

    When are we going to move on from the prescriptive devisive ideologies of yesteryear? All thats needed are some intuitive parents, a king size bed, a cot on one side and NO set timescales!
    We have 3 children. The 3rd child is nearly 2yrs old and still sleeps next to mum. Sometimes she sleeps in the cot at the side of the bed. Already she is getting used to the feel of her own space. Perhaps by the time she is 3yrs and if she is like her brothers before her she will sleep full time in the cot and then later in her own bed.
    No stress, no tears, everyone gets as much sleep as they want, no special gadgets, and no misguided advice.
    Effortless, loving simplicity. Try it. IT WORKS!

28. At 09:57 AM on 14 Sep 2007, MummyoftheCloudCuckoos wrote:

    I am very lucky. When my second baby was born, my 2 year old said, Mummy, you do look tired, why not take a nap while the baby is asleep. I can safely entertain myself for a couple of hours - perhaps with some housework.

    Makes me wonder why anyone pays for childcare.
    

29. At 10:36 AM on 14 Sep 2007, Rachel G wrote:

    Very interesting reading all these comments. Everyone has their own method of coping with small children. And everyone thinks their method is the best for them and their child. Brilliant! My only objection is that some of you seem to think that your solution is superior to everyone else's. It isn't - it is just what works for you. I spent the first five year's of parenthood passing on my method of getting children to sleep to other parents and watching them ignore it. Eventually, I realised that everyone needs to find their own way and no amount of advice, particularly from baby-rearing manuals, will help.

    Finally, just a plea to all those advocating co-sleeping: please follow the guidance from FSID and others about reducing the risks of cot death. It is based on extensive research and might just save your baby's life. Full details from , but this is their summary with respect to cosleeping:

    "The safest place for your baby to sleep is in a crib or cot in a room with you for the first six months
    Do not share a bed with your baby:
    -if you or your partner are smokers (no matter where or when you smoke)
    -have been drinking alcohol
    -take medication or drugs that make you drowsy
    feel very tired.
    -or if your baby was born premature, was small at birth or is under three months old.

    There is also a risk that you might roll over in your sleep and suffocate your baby, or that your baby could get caught between the wall and the bed, or could roll out of an adult bed and be injured.
    Never sleep with a baby on a sofa or armchair "

30. At 02:02 PM on 14 Sep 2007, Chris Ghoti wrote:

    Rachel D @ 23, oh, bravo!

    I have been trying to work out how to suggest that parents are people, each different, and so are babies, and what suits one pair may not suit another...

    :-)

31. At 01:27 PM on 16 Sep 2007, Gossipmistress wrote:

    I wish ny nextdoor neighbours could get their baby to lie sleeping for a bit longer at 6.30 every morning.........

32. At 07:18 PM on 16 Sep 2007, wrote:

    GM - I've no doubt they feel the same. Be grateful there's a wall separating you from the hideous reality of the noise.

    Years ago (pre mpb's arrival) we lived adjoining to a couple with a young baby which seemed to scream an awful lot during the night, to our dismay. When the child was about 6, & I had just had mpb, our neighbour commented blithely - "Oh no, I never fed mine during the night. Stopped that as soon as we were home from hospital. After all, you need your sleep"!!! She might have needed her sleep - WE certainly didn't get any when her child was screaming.

    (And mpb did not scream all night, nor usually wake at 6 30am, to our relief. But she did feed most of the night. Swings & roundabouts....)

33. At 11:04 PM on 16 Sep 2007, wrote:

    Annasee (32) - aforementioned baby (I shall call him Damian) 's parents seem to think that the best way to get him back to sleep is to let him scream for approximately 27 minutes and 23 seconds before bursting into an especially tuneless version of 'The Wheels on the Bus', the aim of which seems to be to drown out the baby's crying (or possibly by this point, screaming!)

    
    

34. At 09:36 AM on 17 Sep 2007, wrote:

    GM - have you seen that Harry Enfield episode featuring the Slobs, where the baby is scareaming in another room, they spend five minutes arguing over "whose turn it is", then, when finally deciding whose turn it is, one of them gets out of bed, goes to the wall & hammers on it shouting "Will ya shuddUP!!!"

    Perhaps your neighbours are following a similar system. Have to feel sorry for the baby though.

35. At 01:43 PM on 18 Sep 2007, Gossipmistress wrote:

    Annasee - ah yes! Must be their role models!!