´óÏó´«Ã½

The Glass Box for Monday

Comments

1. At 05:12 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Joseph Walker wrote:

   Would someone remind Mark Urvan and apparently virtually every single ´óÏó´«Ã½ journalist who has so far commented on this matter that the 'British Public' are not necessarily only troubled by the deaths of British soldiers, but also by the deaths of the tens of thousands of iraqi civilians that has ocurred as a result of the British attack and occupation of their country.

   As a member of 'The British Public' I doubt very much that I am the only one who is tired of having their views caricatured and patronised in this way.

2. At 05:14 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Iain wrote:

   New politics? Don't make me laugh, what Brown is talking about is one party state politics, which is nothing new, and though it might be a wonderful wheeze for Ministers to contemplate in order to secure their long term employment interests, but it is a disastrous development for the electorate.

3. At 05:23 PM on 03 Sep 2007, wrote:

   Regarding Gordon Brown's offering jobs to members of other parties, Eddie wondered if he might be trying to abolish party politics.
   I've been a member of a District Council - where I broke the habit of a lifetime and joined a political group - and of a non-aligned parish council. The District Council was governed by a 'cabinet' drawn exclusively from the ruling political group (who outnumbered the next largest group by more than 2:1) and I found myself becoming more concerned about whether a member was a Tory or a Lib-Dem or whatever, than about what they said and what they knew, and how much benefit they might confer on the government of the District. It was time to leave, I felt, because that political system militated against the best use of Council Members.
   I left the political group on the same day, but shall be tarred with that particular political brush for as long as anybody remembers and cares.
   The A-political Parish Council, all members 'independent', has always represented better value for its electors, in my opinion.

4. At 05:44 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Bedd Gelert wrote:

   I think, despite asking the question about abolishing the opposing benches in the House of Commons, that Eddie Mair could have been more searching about the effect of 'cross-party politics'.

   This at its most extreme could mean that we will simply not be able to 'vote out' policies we don't agree with, as they will have been proposed by the 'Official Opposition' !!

5. At 05:48 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Peter Bolt wrote:

   After that wonderful interview with the Foreign Office official please keep us informed on "The common European policy on Burma"
   I bet it will not include stopping the French building a Gas line or even a washing line in Burma.
   A recording of your interview should be used at the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Journalist school. Quite wonderful

6. At 05:53 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Bedd Gelert wrote:

   Good to see that you are making good use of Mark Mardell. I have learnt more about what is going on in Turkey from a week of reading his 'Euroblog' than in months of reading the newspapers.

   More power to his elbow.. - perhaps he should have his own show on Radio 4 ?? In fact, why not scrap 'Excess Baggage' and 'From Our Own Correspondent' and get him to do one programme to cover them both !

7. At 06:03 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Bedd Gelert wrote:

   Peter Bolt - I entirely agree with you. Apologies if I am only giving Eddie Mair negative feedback. My earlier point was that although what Patrick Mercer does or does not do will affect 'human rights' in the way that the Burma/Myanmar situation does, both can result in democracy being subverted.

   The long term consequences of a 'one-party state' developing in the UK are as serious as the short term consequences in Burma of the 'one-party state' which Europe appears to be - as in both cases there would be little influence which we voters could exert.

8. At 06:10 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Nige Parkin wrote:

   In his Interview with Patrick Mercer MP, Eddie Mair stated that the British Army were losing in Basara, hence there re-location to Shaiba Airfield. Losing Eddie? Evidence please, I'd love to know how you came up with that? Whilst I understand the practice of goading to stimulate a response, I suspect the British Army would take issue with you!

9. At 06:25 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Brian V Peck wrote:

   According to Gary Younge in the Guardian today (3rd Sept 2007) Class warfare is alive and kicking in the USA as it is in Little Britain...meaning 'the rich attacking the poor'. So any idea in Gordon's head that we are now moving into a new paradigm...in essence living in an apolitical (new politics) society is total tosh of the highest order...ironically Relgion is still used as a tool of social control by the Ruling Elite in many countries all over the World....with the idea that we are still living in a 'natural order' ordained by God - still believed by the British Head of State...according to the movie about her...but again total bunkum...and one of the biggest myths ever invented by man...

   Brian

10. At 06:48 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Joseph Walker wrote:

    Response to Nige Parkin:

    Nige, you're as bad as Eddie is. Losing what? winning what? This phrase in this context is vacuous and pointless until you define every time what you mean when you use the expression.

    If you mean by "winning" that Basra has been left by the British as a stable, safe city for its occupants to spend their days in peace, then the British Army has self-evidently been driven out in defeat. However if you mean that Saddam has been deposed and now killed and the Iraqi army at least for the moment has been left relatively free of factional control and infiltration, then we have indeed 'won'.

    Depends where you decide to set your standards really. The bar for some time now has seemed conveniently adaptable.

11. At 07:47 PM on 03 Sep 2007, nikki noodle wrote:

    This might sound gushing, but I dont care!

    That was a *wonderful* show tonight - there was a huge effort to get a comment from Burma, an exceedingly difficult location for telecommunications in general and public comment in particular, followed by a totally relevant and determined interview with our own foriegn office spokesperson. The q&a were definitely 'entertaining' even if the answers failed to actually illuminate british policy!

    There were a host of other goodies in it too, and if I get a moment I might return and give particulars, but I had to steal away and type this as an appreciative listener.

    thankyou again!

    nik

12. At 08:02 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Paul wrote:

    Nige Parkin (8)

    Well said.

13. At 08:17 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Gillian wrote:

    nikki noodle (11)

    Well said.

14. At 08:44 PM on 03 Sep 2007, Paul wrote:

    To the PM team. To refer to the situation in Basra as winning or losing is infantile. People are putting their lives on the line in an attempt to bring about some normality to the citizens of Iraq, it was never about 'winnng' or 'losing'.

    How do you think the families of serving soldiers feel to hear the efforts of their loved ones demeaned in such terms.

15. At 01:00 AM on 04 Sep 2007, Anil wrote:

    Paul

    To refer to the situation by PM in Basra as winning or losing is NOT infantile. Every war is lost or won or end up as a bloody stalemate. A quagmire like Iraq. Soldiers dying in a quagmire actually die in vain. Sad but true

    Sadly Iraq war has been lost. No politician will ever accept that a soldier has died in vain. Blair will never eat this humble pie even on his own death bed. It is called arrogance. 30 years hence Blair will still maintain that he was right to go to war.

    It is the politicians who send soldiers into wars. many a soldier has died in vain in previous wars. The Iraq was war is classic case of Blair's vanity and misguided and blind loyalty to G W Bush.

    Bush has always talked about victory in Iraq. Such a victory is not coming any time soon.

    British troops have now been withdrawn from Basra Palace to an airbase outside Basra. This withdrawal has been spun as a momentous event and semantics like "overwatch" are mooted.

    It is nor surprising this event was witnessed by Tom Newton-Dunn, defence editor with the Sun, the only British journalist. Why? because the Sun supports the Government and the war in Iraq. Tom Newton-Dunn is a subservient lackey and will tow the government line

    ´óÏó´«Ã½ News world affairs editor John Simpson said it was hard not to use the word "defeat" in connection with the withdrawal. Can Simpson be allowed to witness the withdrawal? I think not

    John Simpson also said: "The fact is it isn't a defeat today, it was a defeat some years ago.

    Bit too late. ´óÏó´«Ã½ should have said this was a defeat some years ago whenever that was. Negligently ´óÏó´«Ã½ did not say this. There should have been a Walter Cronkite moment.

    "Tonight, back in more familiar surroundings in New York, we'd like to sum up our findings in Vietnam, an analysis that must be speculative, personal, subjective. Who won and who lost in the great Tet offensive against the cities? I'm not sure. The Vietcong did not win by a knockout, but neither did we. The referees of history may make it a draw. Another standoff may be coming in the big battles expected south of the Demilitarized Zone. Khesanh could well fall, with a terrible loss in American lives, prestige and morale, and this is a tragedy of our stubbornness there; but the bastion no longer is a key to the rest of the northern regions, and it is doubtful that the American forces can be defeated across the breadth of the DMZ with any substantial loss of ground. Another standoff. On the political front, past performance gives no confidence that the Vietnamese government can cope with its problems, now compounded by the attack on the cities. It may not fall, it may hold on, but it probably won't show the dynamic qualities demanded of this young nation. Another standoff.

    "We have been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders, both in Vietnam and Washington, to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds. They may be right, that Hanoi's winter-spring offensive has been forced by the Communist realization that they could not win the longer war of attrition, and that the Communists hope that any success in the offensive will improve their position for eventual negotiations. It would improve their position, and it would also require our realization, that we should have had all along, that any negotiations must be that -- negotiations, not the dictation of peace terms. For it seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate. This summer's almost certain standoff will either end in real give-and-take negotiations or terrible escalation; and for every means we have to escalate, the enemy can match us, and that applies to invasion of the North, the use of nuclear weapons, or the mere commitment of one hundred, or two hundred, or three hundred thousand more American troops to the battle. And with each escalation, the world comes closer to the brink of cosmic disaster.

    To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe, in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past. To suggest we are on the edge of defeat is to yield to unreasonable pessimism. To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy's intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations. But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.

    This is Walter Cronkite. Good night"

    No ´óÏó´«Ã½ anchor man had the balls to take a stance on a par with Walter Cronkite.

    Why because they are bunch of yellow bellied cowards. Moral cowards - running away from their own morality. Men without principle.

    I rest my case

16. At 03:31 AM on 04 Sep 2007, wrote:

    
    Bush Moves to Ease Subprime Crisis
    Would allow public to print money on home computers.
    White House Director of Resignations Resigns
    No replacement has been named, says outgoing Director of Appointments.
    GAO Report: Iraqi Government Has
    Met Only 3 of 18 Benchmarks
    They are:
    
    4. Establish a web site.
    9. Meet occasionally.
    15. Take a nice, long vacation

    ;-)
    ed

17. At 05:50 AM on 04 Sep 2007, eddie mair wrote:

    Nige (8) I'm afraid you're mistaken. I did not discuss Basra with Mr Mercer at all.

    Perhaps you're confusing it with our guest from Basra - the doctor? In that interview I put to him the findings of the Newsnight poll, which said that more than two thirds of people surveyed thought the British were losing. He agreed, and added that the troops should stay - I interrupted in the context of the poll and his agreement with it, to say "but they're losing..", and he gave his response to that.
    

18. At 08:27 AM on 04 Sep 2007, Peter Rippon - PM Editor wrote:

    
    Thanks for the comments. Eddie is right on the 'losing/winning' issue. It was a phrase in an opinion poll so we were using it in that context.

    I thought we had some great reporting from Uganda and Romania yestereday. It is an expensive way of storytelling but so vivid. The main debate in the Glassbox was about the first female beefeater. Was it a story? Some felt not.

19. At 08:55 AM on 04 Sep 2007, witchiwoman wrote:

    Excellent programme last night, particularly the Burma interview.

    Peter - the female Beefeater was news. Her comments on why she was the first were particularly illuminating.

20. At 09:34 AM on 04 Sep 2007, Belinda wrote:

    I thought the Beefeater story was one of the most interesting of the show, Peter. But maybe that's just me (and witchiwoman).

21. At 10:17 AM on 04 Sep 2007, wrote:

    Re the first female beefeater interview - I found that fascinating, & so did the 9 yr-old in the house. It was unfortunate that her first day at work seemed to involve mostly media interviews, so she didn't have much actual "guarding" to talk about. Still, she was a great speaker - I suppose that helped her get the job!

    I did find rather amusing the part of the interview (& I'm paraphrasing here, correct me if I've got it all wrong...) when Eddie asked her:

    "And what are you wearing at the moment?"

    To which she replied along the lines of "I'm in my blue undress uniform..."

    Then Eddie asked "And what does that feel like...?"

    Sorry if I've got a really sordid mind, but for a moment I thought I was listening to one of those strange phone conversations that start with heavy breathing, before ranging into a discussion of the caller's wearing apparel, & enquiries about the listener's clothing...

22. At 10:45 AM on 04 Sep 2007, The Stainless Steel Cat wrote:

    Annasee (21):

    *grin*

    I *think* I know what Eddie was asking, those uniforms do look very awkward and uncomfortable, but yes, it really does sound a bit dodgy...

    "Is that a pike you're holding...?"

23. At 02:52 PM on 04 Sep 2007, PAul wrote:

    Peter Rippon (18) PM-Editor

    Yes, the winning/losing issue was quoted from a poll. ´óÏó´«Ã½'s Newsnight. Hardly, meaningful, given Jeremy Paxman recently likened the ´óÏó´«Ã½ to Stalin's Russia. In addition, Paxman hinted he feared the ´óÏó´«Ã½ was losing its journalistic teeth because news was "less about uncovering things than it is about covering them."

    
    

24. At 07:31 PM on 04 Sep 2007, mittfh wrote:

    I'm surprised Ed I (16) didn't pick up on this 'story' from the Ironic Times:

    Good News: North Korea to Get Rid of All Its Nukes by End of Year

    Bad news: and give them to Iran.

    
    "Honest, guv, we're not *making* nukes...
    We're just helping North Korea put theirs beyond use..."
    

25. At 07:35 PM on 04 Sep 2007, Anil wrote:

    Nige

    It is pure and simple. The Brit Army has been driven out of Basra. Evidence!!!!!!!!!!! there is plenty of it. Day in and out there were mortar attacks on the Base.

    These are referred to as "indirect fire". Some where along the line this became one attack too many for the soldiers sleeping tents. I suspect there have a lot of shrapnel injuries. This reports have been hidden from the wider public by MOD.

    The British Army will take issue with Eddie. I wonder how he will respond. I think nobody has the stomach for the Iraq war. Blair has run away

    Eddie you are Johny come lately to this issue of defeat. Simpson has jumped on the band wagon. Bit late in the day. Cowards

    These boys should have taken Blair & Co to task on the validity of this god forsaken unnecessary war the day it started. Yes constant badgering of Blair and his cohorts would have altered the course of the war.

26. At 07:59 PM on 04 Sep 2007, Mike wrote:

    Yesterdays programme:
    the female Beefeater was news - and gooood news for a change.

    More stories like that pls

27. At 08:47 PM on 04 Sep 2007, Anvil wrote:

    Anil (25)

    Are you the ´óÏó´«Ã½'s roving reporter?

28. At 06:51 AM on 05 Sep 2007, Anil wrote:

    Yes I would like be a roving reporter BUT not for ´óÏó´«Ã½ so that I can expose the lies we have been told about Iraq

    What do you want to know?

29. At 07:51 AM on 05 Sep 2007, Anil wrote:

    I have been censored by the Glass Box

    Lets see

    Children’s hospital in Basra a 94-bed, state-of-the-art cancer hospital is way behind schedule and millions over budget and mired in graft and corruption . ´óÏó´«Ã½ will not tell us anything about this disastrous project. Not a single child has been treated. Can ´óÏó´«Ã½ disprove me?

    Does ´óÏó´«Ã½ know how many children have died of cancer in Basra because of depleted Uranium?

    Come on Eddie send a reporter out to Basra and find out for your self

30. At 01:08 PM on 05 Sep 2007, Joseph Walker wrote:

    Anil has made some good points and his tone is entirely justified.

    There must be many journalists and editors in ´óÏó´«Ã½ News and Current Affairs who have at times felt angry at their limited ability (surely it has not been entirely self-imposed!) on commenting via real fact-based investigative journalism on the shocking litany of mistakes, deliberate falsehoods and cynical lying that has gone on prior to and during the attack on Iraq which has resulted in such an appalling tragedy for its people.

    It will be very frustrating over the coming years to watch documentary after documentary detailing as if for the first time the appalling results of British and US military and political activity in Iraq; results, which, while widely known by anyone bothering to read more than just a few British mainstream papers, passed through ´óÏó´«Ã½ newsrooms frequently without a single mention over the airwaves.

    One of the many unforseen results of this unmitigated catastrophe has been to show a significant section of the country just how difficult it is for ´óÏó´«Ã½ journalists to do their job properly in certain circumstances and how well this can work in favour of those in power when they want to do bad things in our name.

31. At 08:59 PM on 05 Sep 2007, Anil wrote:

    Joseph thanks a million for your support. You have made very solid points. Well done

    The Glass Box censored. Why? it was about a unpublished posting on US Marines building a Berlin Wall in Baghdad like thieves in the night. ´óÏó´«Ã½'s reporting has been shameful and down right negligent. There were some fuzzy green pictures taken with night vision scopes. I have yet to see this pictures taken full daylight. Like cowards the Marines only build this wall in dead of the night.

    Not one ´óÏó´«Ã½ Journalist or for that matter an Editor has questioned the legality of this divisive wall. So Mr Editor Peter Rippon do you know how long this wall is? I bet you came to work drink some coffee and fart about. You are completely useless.

    I can bet you ´óÏó´«Ã½ has done a deal with MOD and the US DOD not report on the bad things in Iraq.

    I agree with you Joseph that ´óÏó´«Ã½ "can work in favour of those in power when they want to do bad things in our name" ´óÏó´«Ã½ has worked extremely well when we have morons like John Simpson who, in my opinion is a third rate Journo

    A shining example of his crassness

    Let me quote from the Guardian

    "It's an exhilarating feeling to be liberating a city," Simpson declared, the camera following behind as he strode, arms outstretched, cutting a swathe through the welcoming throng. "It was ´óÏó´«Ã½ people who liberated the city - we got in ahead of the Northern Alliance,"...............................................Simpson's storming of Kabul took his ´óÏó´«Ã½ colleagues by surprise. "My mouth dropped open," said one senior journalist. "I was completely speechless at the phraseology." Even David Blunkett, a guest on Today, was sent into an uncharacteristic fluster. "I'm still reeling at the ´óÏó´«Ã½ being first in and taking Kabul," said the home secretary. "Well done John Simpson, eh?""

    Thanks a lot John. Perhaps you could have licked Blunkett's that moron's back side at the same time. This moron resigned twice

    On the Basra withdrawal John Simpson said "it was hard not to use the word "defeat" in connection with the withdrawal".

    So Mr Simpson the war in Afghanistan is going swimmingly? after all you "liberated it" and made David Blunkett very happy boy. By the way two of our boys died in vain today.

    So Mr Simpson when will you tell us that "it was hard not to use the word "defeat" in connection with a future withdrawal from Afghanistan with out firing a shot as incompetent moron Dr Reid suggested". ´óÏó´«Ã½ did not even question this idiotic statement by that imbecile.

    Need I say more

32. At 02:13 PM on 06 Sep 2007, wrote:

    PUSH!
    PUSH
    (comments gone to Limbo)

    Hello and well met again to Joseph, and Anil, no, you've said it all quite well.
    Salaam/Shalom
    ed