The 'I' word
It's Saturday, it's the last Spring conference, it must be Llandudno ! .
No, it's Newport - more great red sculptural wave than Great Orme.
No truth in the rumours that Plaid Cymru have found a location as far from Gwynedd and the battle over the closure of rural schools as possible, or so I'm told anyway. This, of course, is Plaid reminding you and me that it still wants to be the party of the whole of Wales.
The whole of Wales may then be interested to know that I'm sure I just heard Elin Jones AM using the word 'independence' in her conference speech. Had no-one checked it?
This is Elin Jones, Rural Affairs Minister - that's right, Minister - the first Plaid Minister to attend a conference of European Ministers and the first to tell delegates that it was unacceptable that as the Common Agriculture Policy was being discussed, Welsh and Scottish Minister were kept away from the top table and had no right to contribute to the debate.
They sat 'behind' the UK Minister, who in turn sat in between the Ministers from Malta and Latvia.
"Ten years ago of course Wales wasn't there at all - nor were Latvia or Malta for that matter. But now at least Wales is in the room but the rightful place for Wales is at the table in our own right, with our Agriculture Minister sitting between the Agriculture Ministers of Latvia and England, or Malta and England."
She warmed to her theme.
"I've always been totally confident that Wales is as able as any other country to govern itself and represent itself - as able as Malta, Latvia and England. Though the purpose of my visit to the European Council of Ministers was not to confirm my faith in independece - as a member of Plaid Cymru, that was the result".
I wonder if she's the only Minister who'll venture to use the 'i' word today?
UPDATE
Guess who else has made it to Newport?
Just spotted working the room is Steve Morgan, manager of Peter Hain's campaign for the Deputy Leadership, author of his downfall - take your pick.
Why didn't he make it to Welsh Labour's conference we wonder?
Ah nothing to do with the political party concerned, everything to do with his own wedding rehearsal which happened to be on that very day.
Well at least that particular engagement led to a honeymoon in Madeira.
I'm Betsan Powys, ´óÏó´«Ã½ Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on .
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Elin Jones should not be allowed to distort recent Welsh political history. Welsh Office ministers DID attend European Council meetings before the creation of the National Assembly. I was present to represent Wales in an Agriculture Council meeting in Luxembourg within months of my appointment as Under Secretary of State for Wales in 1996. If Welsh Ministers have been absent since then, perhaps Elin should ask her Labour friends in their coalition government why they allowed Wales to go unrepresented?
The common agricutural policy meeting in Europe attended by ministers from Scotland, Wales and England reflects the power situation iin the U.K. - we can sit there and listen but it's the english who make all the decisions. DISGRACEFUL.
Shut up Osian, you obviously haven't a clue what your talking about!
That's the friendly face of the new Tories alright....
Would you like to reinforce your argument? Or are politicians these days incapable of doing so?
Jonathan Evans does his credibility no good whatsover by responding in such a patronising manner.
Looked a confident United party (not at all biased !) Loved Adam's stuff about the Chartists - Zephaniah Williams a real Welsh hero - sadly neglected - very worthy of a film!
Thank you Jonathan, that was a sensible, mature argument and I'm happy you put Osian in his place (lies).
I was at the conference in Newport, seen you there too Bethan, nice dress; sounds like I'm creeping. Ok Elin used the 'i' word, but that's the party she is in. A party that wants to see the people of Wales looking after their own issues. Yes there were ministers now representing Wales, but we do not have a voice yet. Our agricultural needs are different to that of the rest of the UK, we need to put our own ideas and views across. An independent Wales can look after the needs of the people that make Wales their home, no matter where they're from and race or religion they are. Plaid wants to see Wales succeed in the global market and have a say in international politics through the UN, NATO, EU, etc. We need a voice now due to globalisation, but Plaid is not wanting it now. They want to take it in steps, when the people of Wales is ready. Provide us with a Parliament first and see how that goes first. Give the Welsh a chance to manage themselves.
Hang on a moment: just to be clear that I've approved two comments from two quite different Jonathan Evanses with two quite different Email addresses. As if MEPs would ever, ever say things like 'Shut up' ...
"Thank you Jonathan, that was a sensible, mature argument and I'm happy you put Osian in his place "
So what would you consider as an immature argument?!
However to add to the more constructive debate, Plaid looks to be the only party in Wales at them moment who are being completely straight and who know what they want - except for the timeline of devolution. But then again can ypu blame them? I mean we have been waiting for the past 700 years or more!
Also as Iago himself said the agricultural needs of Wales are different to those of England or Scotland and who would better understand those needs than the Welsh Rural Affairs minister? It is therefore disgraceful that the ministers from Wales and Scotland weren't allowed to contribute and give their respective countries views on an agricultural policy which affects them in very different ways. Doesn't that go against some democratic values which we so loudly preach?
Bethan,
just out of interest: what is the situation for other EU states with highly developed devolution?
Do representatives of the German Länder sit behind their minister? Catalonia? Flanders?
Many thanks, Betsan, for clarifying that the earlier rather offensive response did not come from me. It strikes me as curious that another 'Jonathan Evans' should have joined this thread so soon after my orioginal post, unless your site is regularly monitored by the Head of MI5 (yet another Jonathan Evans)
Sorry Dewi, the chartist movement did not belong exclusively to Wales. Chartism included a wide range of organizations, in the whole of Britain.
In 1838, six Members of Parliament and six working men, including William Lovett, (from the London Working Men's Association, set up in 1836) formed a committee, which then published the People's Charter,
The Chartist riots, with Frost at the helm occurred in Newport, Monmouthshire in 1839.
I am sure that the founder of Plaid Cymru, if he were alive, would not be pleased to be associated with the Chartist movement which was concerned with :
Universal suffrage for all men over the age of 21
Equal-sized electoral districts
Voting by secret ballot
An end to the need for a property qualification for Parliament
Pay for members of Parliament
Annual election of Parliament
Aspirations more in line with socialism than nationalism, I think! Dream on, Adam Price!
Some how I don't think T Banner realises that Plaid is probably more of a socialist party than the modern Labour party. Adam's interest in the Chartists goes back a long way and Plaid's involvement in the commemmoration of the Chartists is also of a long pedegre.
T Banner i think you'll find that Adam Price is more of a socialist than the vast majority of Labour MP's. It seems to me that New Lab=old Tory. I'm sure if Mr Banner doesn't agree he'll post on here to show me how Lab is far more left wing that PC. I wouldn't hold my breath.
Mr Evans, I don't know why you've brought the Labour Party into this. I was simply suggesting that Chartism has no links with nationalism, since it was connected with internationalist sentiments and ideals, and about ensuring representation of the people. Plaid Cymru, it seems to me, is only concerned about getting independence for Wales and about representing Welsh speakers, or forcing those who don't speak the language to learn it! I think the Chartists were more concerned about eliminating poverty than promoting language at the expense of public services.
Sorry T Banner but nearly none of that is truthful. It in fact shows your ignorance. Plaid Cymru, or Cymdeithas yr Iaith for that matter, don't want to force people to learn Welsh they only want a Welsh language option to be available. Because both want to provide equal and fair services not force people or deny them services in their preferred language.
I would also like to not that although Plaid Cymru might be labelled nationalists many of them simply want the best for Wales. And they aren't you're typical nationalists. More of internationalist nationalists. That's why they want membership for the EU, the Un, etc. for Wales.
Manners are obviously not your strong point, Osian!