大象传媒

I don't mean to complicate your scenerio, but surely technically, according to Standing Orders (1.3 of the May 2011 Standing Orders), you need 3 or more members to form a political group. Or at least that's my understanding...

I think Plaid Cymru would have a job delivering a Rainbow even if they are the leading Party of the also rans.

Con/Dems in charge in London and certain back benchers dead set against it. I think the only chance would be a cast iron guarantee of a funding reform that benefits Wales. The Con/Dems might bite, if it meant Labour out of power across the UK. In the scheme of things, Welsh finance is small beer to London. The odd billion would do it and that鈥檚 neither here nor there.

Last time Labour had what Plaid Cymru wanted, the referendum, that promise trumped everything else. This time they have nothing to offer, except a certain amount of common ideology. That will only be a clincher for a small number of Plaid Cymru AMs. For most of them the overriding question will be 鈥渨hat鈥檚 good for Wales鈥�. The dissenters would have to be very brave to step out of line.

PS no mention of Greens, UKIP and BNP. The Greens are already bigging up their chances of a deal with Labour, though I can鈥檛 see them getting a seat. Wouldn鈥檛 the boat rock if the BNP were able to give Labour their majority. (Though, I do hope they don鈥檛 get a seat either.)

Perhaps a Labour minority Government and watch them squirm.

@1. You don鈥檛 have to be an official political group to join a coalition.

As is my wont before I get into any 'what ifs' I will cast my caustic eye over the Tory manifesto. Never mind jam tomorrow, how about jam so far in the future that a lot of people reading the earnings equalisation 'plan' will be dead before it happens. Now this PPP idea (PFI by another name), it is a good idea to examine the history of such infrastructure by means of alphabet soup finance efforts. Yes, think of the London Metronet fiasco. Nothing of any consequence got built, but lots of people made money out of it except the taxpayer who had to bail it out in the end. Step forward the usual suspects: the bankers, the consultants, the contractor management, and of course the tax haven specialists. If this comes to pass here in Wales it will be us stuck with the 30 year mortgage on usurous interest rates.
Half way through this stream of propaganda, sorry, manifestos, I asked what about the 'rainbow coalition' versions, and as Betsan's just pointed out, with this substantial amount of overlap, perhaps these are they. It's worth bearing in mind the likely deals in the polling booth.

"ideological differences" The parties are not meant to about a political ideological contest they are about management - the management of the deconstruction and dis-integration of the British nation state. They all agree (with marginal tweaks) on the macro policy matters facing the UK - ie devolution - not one of them supports repeal, that would be a real ideological difference.

The final result will be far more sneaky than anyone could have ever imagined.

Labour will just miss their clear majority target, and get 29/30 'seats' thus leaving Carwyn beside himself with frustration and mumbling 'if only' to any who will listen.

Plaid will get 13 seats and Ieaun although repeatedly talking of consolidation, will eventually return to the delights of conveyencing. This only after much unwarranted "we cudda been a contender" talk from the younger Plaid element.

The Conservatives will also get 13 seats, a total that will apparently leave our Nick "quite satisfied" His talk of consolidation will at least equal that of Ieauns, and here too there is talk of 'handing the baton over' in the near future.

Then there is the Kirsty enigma. The troubled Lib/Dems will manage 5 seats, and herein lies the solution. My forecast is that Carwyn and Kirsty will not be in coalition....but.....the Lib/Dems will be a kind of "reserve team" ready to prop up Labour in times of trouble. A kind of mystery coalition on demand, if you like!

Well I told you it was sneaky !

Why is Betsan so sure Kirsty is going to be around to do any deals?

I've been out campaigning on Brecon and Radnorshire's doorsteps with the Labour candidate, Chris Lloyd, and I can report that a lot of former Liberal Democrat supporters are incandescent with rage (that means they're very, very angry, for the benefit of manifesto authors across the parties). They're angry because of the betrayal wrought upon us by Kirsty's Parliamentary colleagues, and they fear a repetition of the same, here in Wales.

I'm not saying that those voters will be coming home to Labour (where they would certainly be welcomed like long-estranged siblings), but you can bet your entire stack of badly-spelt political documents that they won't be voting for Kirsty or the Conservative!

I am in awe of your optimism Mike. In spite of the rampant incandescence sweeping throughout Brecon and Radnor,I feel bold enough to announce that you haven't got a cat in hell's chance of defeating the fragrant Kirsty.

Being sure that you are already well aware of the results last time, I will not embarrass you with the 2007 figures. Although on second thoughts as you are so obviously doing a bit of free canvassing on here..... Last time, Kirsty Williams had 15006 votes (turnout 52.2%) While a Neil Stone(Labour) received just 2514 votes.....Even the Tory had 9652 votes (turnout 31.6%)

Also, upon looking at the very latest percentage figures for the Lib/Dems, we find that they are in fact not doing at all badly, coming in at 8%, which is some 3.5% better than some months ago. It would appear that those nasty pseudo Tories have peaked at just about the right time.

Hope this information does not result in you becoming incandescent with rage.While any rash and untoward visits to the bookmakers with political betting in mind, might prove to be unprofitable..

Good luck !

In reply to M6, I would assume they'd be ignoring their assembly ballot paper then ? since liberals will probably be out to vote Yes in the AV referendum, if they aren't voting tory, labour or liberal I can't see them voting for any the fringe (lunatic?) parties...(or the nats).
In the interest of fairness I might point out I'm not endorsing any mainstream (lunatic?) or fringe(lunatic?) parties, and certainly not the nats.

In the last coalition Plaid pushed Labour into promising a referendum on electoral powers and into having a commission on financing. Against its instincts Labour agreed. To their surprise the referendum was held and won comfortably. The commission reported with the convenient result that Wales was a bit underfunded but not embarrassingly so. Labour was very pleased and took the credit for both developments. Plaid totally failed to get credit for either with the electorate. From Labour's point of view why wouldn't you want to be in coalition again with a bunch of mugs like that who give you good ideas and can't extract any benefit for themselves. While Plaid are such a bunch of political incompetents anyone would want them as junior partners. The Conservatives evidently would.

It isn't optimism, Crossroads; it's speculation - in the spirit in which Betsan wrote the blog. There's a lot going on this time around that will change the results in ways that many of us would find extremely hard to predict. Bear in mind that I didn't say estranged Lib Dem voters were certain to come to Labour - I can't make that claim, just as you can't claim that Kirsty will keep all the supporters she had last time. For those reasons I think the figures from the last election are meaningless. Loyalties are changing.

I'm surprised that you think an eight per cent share in the opinion polls is "not doing at all badly". Perhaps you are more optimistic than I am? This is an extremely poor position from which Kirsty has to fight an election, created mainly by her party's behaviour in Westminster (which I admit is not her fault, although I'm told she did support Mr Clegg in his campaign to become Liberal Democrat leader - perhaps you can illuminate us regarding the truth or falsehood of this), but also partly by an expressed belief (on the doorstep) that the Lib Dems have not been effective in the Senedd.

In contrast, the Conservatives can call out around 10,000 voters every time. I find that bizarre, considering they're a minority-interest group whose policies are intended to benefit only the very rich. In Westminster they've been using the Liberal Democrats as human shields, on whom they've skilfully dumped the blame for the most damaging of their ideologically-motivated policies. Did you see the part of their manifesto that suggests they'll have incomes in Wales on a par with the rest of the UK by 2030? My first thought, on reading that, was 'Will it really take that long for them to make the rest of the country as poor as us?'

Finally, we have a resurgent Labour Party, bung-full of bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, intelligent thinkers as a result of a huge upsurge in membership since the formation of the Westminster coalition, and happy to knock lumps off of both the above parties, partly in response to the frankly diabolical record of that administration but also in order to defend Wales from the possibility of similar carnage on this side of the Severn.

The people I've met have responded to that. They've heard all the nonsense arguments that Labour overspending caused a worldwide recession, or whatever it is the coalition is peddling now - and they aren't buying it. They know that the Labour administration's investment to help the economy recover was actually working - until the coalition got into power and confidence dropped off like lemmings being pushed

How strange. The end of my last post was missing. Here it is now:

...like lemmings being pushed over a cliff by a Disney camera crew.

And that is why I made my initial comment. It only takes a loss of a few thousand voters for Kirsty's position to become very precarious indeed. If those votes went to Labour, rather than the Conservatives - which seems more likely, considering the reason people would be taking their votes away from Kirsty in the first place - then Brecon and Radnorshire could very easily become a three-horse, rather than a two-horse race.

The battle for B&R is a lot less clear-cut than you are trying to make it. Ironically for someone who appears to be defending the status quo, your own nom-de-plume seems to sum up the real situation most adequately. We do indeed stand at a crossroads.

New Yougov ITV Wales poll pretty well confirms recent polls.... From the WM this morning. Full results not on Yougov yet;

LABOUR leader Carwyn Jones is on track to win a majority in next month鈥檚 Assembly election, with the latest YouGov poll giving his party the highest results yet.

"Nearly half of voters (49%) plan to back Labour in the constituency vote in the May 5 election, with the Conservatives on course to overtake Plaid Cymru as the second largest party.

The Tories have the backing of 20% of voters, while Plaid is polling 17%, according to the YouGov survey for ITV Wales. The Liberal Democrats are in fourth place on 8%."


Read More

ITV Wales speculates that there is some good news for Plaid in the regional voting intention, but it could also be a variation within the level of expected accuracy.

Nice try to generate interest in an election which no one seems that interested. Postal votes have now gone out and the majority will probably be returned by early next week. I've received just two leaflets. One from the BNP which made me laugh and another from the Labour Party that decided that naming the regional candidates wasn't worth the effort. If you want to see a contrast then go to the SNP website and read their manifesto. Even if you disagree with Alex Salmond and the SNP you have to admire the tone and confidence of the party. In Wales Labour might be frightened of even tax varying powers. In Scotland the SNP wants control of all income tax and corporation tax. The SNP are also not insulting the Scottish electorate by making May 5th into a referendum on the UK government.

Can any devolutionist explain why an elector in Chester has less power in their vote in a than an elector in Cardiff when they vote to send their MP to Parliament? (ie an elector in Chester is prevented from voting on schools in Cardiff but the elector in Cardiff can vote on schools in Chester). This is not fair to all electors in constituencies in England.

Let's be honest - the two Jones' will do and say anything to stay in power. That will be the worst of all options. Wales will fall even further behind with another Labour/Plaid fudge.

What is wrong with Labour (if they win 26+) seats saying that they will form a minority administration and challenge the other parties to support them or bring them down? It seems to have worked in Scotland!

Unfortunately Labour Assenbly Miinsters are far more comfortable with their power than they are in adhering to poliies and principles

It comes as no surprise that the "selling pitch",of all four main parties are virtually identical,with the exception in small part of PC's manifesto that it wants to seperate wales from UK at some time in future. With devolution we have created a political system for third raters who aint got the talent/gumption to go to Westminster where the key decisions are made,particularly in relation to level of funding for penurous wales.All the welsh politicians are frightened to death to tell the welsh people that the world that was created in 1945 is set to come to an end in next 20-30 years because the money is running out,and that the welfare state has created a monster,whereby a sizeable proportion of state have created a lifestyle of indolence and funded by taxpayers,even when their "misfortune" is actually created by themselves. The "process" is bound in long run to lead to the impoverishment of wales,as we internalise out problems by spending programmes rather than dealing with economic realities. Why is it that unemployment in certain areas is seemingly intractible,whilst job opportunities in south east of england are being filled by non citizens of UK. Until we break down the monolith welsh state and give people more powers over their lives and responsibility for their own taxes (that the one's who have actually worked!!)worse its going to get,and thats why the four parties have minimal variations in their big picture policies.Can somebody tell me that with our current education system failing so badly,how and when we'll get on top of the situation?.

The frustrating part of this election is precisely that Labour do not want to stand on their record in the Assembly but on the bogeyman of Westminster, the coalition.

There is no grown up politics from them, if you are a recipient of services provided by the Assembly directly or through Assembly sponsored bodies, LA's etc, the truth is after 12 yrs of having their hands on the tiller they have failed the people of Wales by any measurable standard over the rest of the UK.

A personal example is over 3 yrs ago my GP wrote to the local Health Board whoever they were at that time for a consultant ENT appointment for me, it will be on next Tuesday I will get that first appointment. I would not call that progress on the Health Service waiting times.

If you think that the same job losses and service cuts happening in England are not happening in Wales then I suggest you take off the blinkers, speak to the staff from LA's who got laid off at the end of March across Wales.

If their econonmic policy was working as well as they preach, the recent employment figures for the UK did not bear that out.

Enough has been said on the record of educational standards in Wales, but it seems people want to forget it is the Assembly Government that has a lot of influence over their lives in Wales for everday services.

Make them accountable for it, on their record in Wales!!

# 17
No 17 is right. Electors in Wales (I write from Scotland and the same applies) are being treated with contempt by the parties. Devolution is a diversion from the substantial matters
that require to be dealt with in order to regenerate the UK ie economy - the credit crunch did not create the deficit/debt. It was and is the surrender of our resources (land, sea minerals,production etc) frontier and trade pattern from 1973 onwards.

The emergence of the current UK Coalition Government should teach us all that naked ambition plays an important part - maybe the most important part - when a deal to acquire and share power needs to be cut. If it comes down to it, the attitudes of the 4 leaders - and the expectations of key individuals they need to manage - will dictate how they play the hand they are dealt by the voting system. There are some hungry people to be satisfied - I hope Betsan will carry on speculating on the 5-year deal that will be needed to make a Welsh Government. Good old Mr Clegg for offering that generous bonus to the new Assembly, though I am not sure the democratic deficit should be tolerated at all...pretty high-handed was it not? Incidentally, is anyone else, like me, looking forward to seeing the great Ron Davies as an AM? That will wake things up...

Indy2010 writes: "If you think that the same job losses and service cuts happening in England are not happening in Wales then I suggest you take off the blinkers, speak to the staff from LA's who got laid off at the end of March across Wales."

I'd like to clarify that the cuts in local authority jobs are a direct result of the cut in funding that Wales has received from the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition in Westminster. It would be unfair to blame the Labour/Plaid administration in Cardiff for them.

Much of the coalition's plan, with regard to its cuts, has been to reduce the funding available to other bodies - such as the Welsh Assembly, the police, and I'm sure you can think of others yourself - and then throw the blame on those bodies when they make unpopular decisions. If you believe these claims, then you are buying into the coalition's deception.

It is the Westminster coalition that is ultimately to blame for job losses in local authorities and services.

21 Mike,

It is the Welsh Assembly that decides how to carve up that reduced funding, there are areas of spend that could be reduced or even used more efficiently.

Lets take free prescriptions for example, I am in work, I can afford to pay, I think that if people in Wales who are not in receipt of of any tax credit should pay, that would allow some of that money, which may not be a lot in the scheme of things, to fund in part such areas as the cancer drugs that were recently highlighted as unavailable in Wales or other important treatments. There are other universal benefits that could have the same treatment as well.

Some of these cuts, along with changes to pay and expenses in LA's were set as part of a 3 budget timetable a year before the change of Westminster Government.

It is pure hypocrisy of Labour to say there would be no cuts, as they have publicly said and laid out plans for cuts, Alistair Darling et al, albeit not at the rate of the tories, who do need to rein their cuts in.

22 Indy2010

As I understand the arguments, your proposal re: prescriptions would not be an efficient use of the service. Although you can afford to pay, and from your comments would be willing to pay, you can't say for certain that other people who earn as much as you would do the same. They might spend their money on what's known as 'bad' consumption - cigarettes and alcohol or whatever - instead. This is why income transfers weren't adopted as the means of providing health services - if you just give people money and ask them to spend it on their own healthcare, you've got no guarantee that they won't spend it on something else. Also, if someone who's earning less receives something for free, while those earning more have to pay for it, some people can resent that, and before long you've got social unrest brewing over something that should be free for everyone at the point of use.

If it's free across the board, everybody benefits (in theory). The poor benefit because they remain healthy for longer than they otherwise might, meaning they can continue to earn a good living for longer. The rich benefit because there is a utility gain from the benefit to the poor - all of society benefits from their productivity, basically.

As I indicated at the top, this is as I understand it; I have been looking into the debates involved with the health service but I have only scratched the surface so far.

Labour have not said they would not have made cuts; the party would have cut just 拢2 billion less than the Tories in the first year. My understanding is that the difference would have been in where those cuts would have fallen and the way in which they would have fallen. I think it's clear to anyone with an analytical mind that the Conservative cuts (I don't think the Lib Dems have had much to do with this policy) have no strategy behind them at all - they're just hacking and hoping. It would have been better, I think, to have cut back on non-essential services, minimise the effect on the front line, and invest in the economy from the outset, in order to build GDP back up, increase the tax take and lessen the need for cuts in the future. What Labour's actual plans were, I don't know - and we may never find out because it is not the job of Her Majesty's Opposition to say what it would do differently. The opposition's job is to point out where the government is going wrong. An awful lot of people, including many supporters of the Conservatives, don't seem to get that, so I thought it was worth saying here.

Regarding the cuts%

AGAIN one of my posts gets the end cut off! I must learn brevity. Here's the rest:

Regarding the cuts and changes to pay and expenses in local authorities, set a year before the change of Westminster government, I'm afraid you'd have to point me to an official source detailing what those cuts were meant to be and how they were expected to be carried out, before I would be willing to accept your interpretation.

For this reason, as well as my original reason, I'm not prepared to accept your headline assertion that it is the Assembly that is responsible for the effect of the cuts in Wales. There is less money coming here from Westminster. Therefore, Westminster is ultimately to blame for the impact of the cuts.

22. Indy2010

I wonder if you would be so self righteous in paying for your prescriptions, if like myself taking 21 different tablets a day and an angina spray and my wife taking 18 tablets a day.

Which incidentally, we would have to pay for, if you had your way.

It is so easy and flippant to say, I am prepared to pay for my prescriptions, when it would be on a very irregular basis.

Would you be prepared to pay what we would have to pay out monthly.

Incidentally the amount of people who would actually have to pay for prescriptions in Wales, because of the retired people, people in poverty and those claiming benefits (at the moment). Would be so minuscule that it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference anyway, financially.

Because they, are able to have free prescriptions owing to the fact they are on benefits. Which is paid by Westminster. Yes Pensions are Welfare Benefits, which no one seems to mention in the Benefit Scrounger debate.

This is why the Assembly Government are giving free prescriptions to everyone. It makes them look good and they wouldn't gain much out of it if those ineligible for free prescriptions would have to pay.

Reinstating prescription charges, especially if set at a low amount and with even wider exemptions is likely to cost more than it raises.

Secondly it part of a citizens entitlement, if people should pay (and we do already through our taxes) why not pay to see a GP? This was once Tory party policy after all, so why stop at paying for medicines?

morning, have balls and millipede minor made visits to wales in the past few weeks? both have visited Scotland recently they both had the same message.
ignore the fact that these elections are for devolved institutions was there message!
only by voting labour can you show your contempt of the con-dem coalition at westminster. which of course is just slightly different from there GE message which was
only by voting labour will you stop the tory's.
They never stopped the tory's and have achieved absolutely he - haw just like they will deliver he - haw this time around as well.
one wonders why they don't want to discuss there record or god forbid there manifesto or lack of it!!

fear and smear is all they have left.
Sid

27 sid_ts63

Labour's Welsh manifesto contains 400 action points for the future, Sid. That's quite a lot.

Attacking the ConDem coalition's record isn't smear - it's just reminding people of what a REALLY bad government is like.

As for fear, well, I'm certainly afraid of what will happen if the Cons get into power in Cardiff Bay!

"it's just reminding people of what a REALLY bad government is like."
eh -no more boom and bust , illegal wars, the gap between rich and poor stretching even further, the UK as close to bankruptcy as you can get , personal debt at the highest ever! is that the REALLY bad government you want to remind people of?
NO ? didn't think so.
maybe it's the party that has had in every manifesto for the past century -to tackle poverty and child poverty and yet poverty increased in their last watch.

Sid

29 sid_ts63

"eh -no more boom and bust , illegal wars, the gap between rich and poor stretching even further, the UK as close to bankruptcy as you can get , personal debt at the highest ever! is that the REALLY bad government you want to remind people of?
"NO ? didn't think so."

The current government is so much worse than that for the people of the UK. You see it in the headlines almost every day, so I really wouldn't know where to start when it comes to criticism, Sid.

At least Labour sincerely wanted to do right by the people. Look, only today I saw an article on the 大象传媒 site, stating that David Cameron worked on Andrew Lansley's proposals for NHS reform while in opposition. This is a man who, during the general election campaign last year, vowed that there would be no more top-down reorganisations of the health service if he were to become Prime Minister. This man was willing to deceive the electorate flagrantly in order to get votes. Why should a liar like that be allowed to be Prime Minister?

good evening, #30 mike, "at least labour wanted to do right by the people" a good few decades ago maybe they did ,BUT,the previous 3 terms of labour government at westminster MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT! In UK terms the difference between the red tory's and the blue tory's is simple the red ones near bankrupt the country and the blue ones use it as an excuse to rip public services apart to deliver political dogma.it happens in a cycle .
the last cycle in Scotland produced what was called the feeble 50
50 labour MP's who were as much use as a chocolate fireguard they huffed and puffed and the tory's marched right over the top of them every time.surprisingly , exactly the same as is happening now.I look forward with interest to the results of both the Scottish and Welsh devolved elections interesting times, interesting times!
Sid

I think it's becoming more and more obvious what labour in Wales' tactic is here. Unfortunately it is taboo to suggest it openly on a medium such as this but I believe that soon, it'll be a more open topic.

It is quite obviously in Welsh Labour's interest to keep the people of Wales poor. It is common knowledge that the working class tend to be much more likely to vote Labour and the poorer you are, the more likely you are to vote Labour.

Of course, if Labour were to win in Westminster, much of the thanks would go to the Welsh voters. If all of a sudden, the Welsh became widely affluent, middle class business people, with more jobs than there are workers, Labour would lose out significantly.

Labour are in the interest of winning seats, not improving the quality of life in Wales. To win seats, they must keep us poor. It is in my opinion, something that's becoming more and more obvious, but unfortunately, the polls don't agree with me!

Either that, or the Welsh people are happy to be treated this way.

31 sid_ts63

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Labour's last three terms. Information is available that shows they did a lot of good, but it does tend to get overwhelmed by the headline-grabbing stuff that shows them (rightly or wrongly) in a bad light. Whatever happens from now on, though, New Labour is a thing of the past.

I notice that nobody has responded to my comments about David Cameron deceiving the electorate about his intentions. Could it be that there is no argument against it; that I am correct in my conclusions and he should not be in power? If so, I'm glad you all agree with me!

32 4yddDraig

Considering my comments above, it should come as no surprise that I disagree with you. As people get wealthier, they tend to vote for the party that they think has helped them the most/will help them again in the future. The Conservatives have ruined their own chances here by showing repeatedly that they are a minority-interest group, keen only to support an elite group of the extremely rich. They're not interested in helping anybody else get wealthy. And the Liberal Democrats have upset their own apple cart by demonstrating that they will sell their ideals for a chance at power - even what little power they've got as the Tories' fall guys in the coalition.

In contrast, Welsh Labour has a plan for the future well-being of everybody in Wales. Since it contains something like 400 action points, it might be a bit more detailed than many would like, but at least it aims to make the best choices possible, in these tougher times.

Mr. Sivier, you wrote at #33 ...

I notice that nobody has responded to my comments about David Cameron deceiving the electorate about his intentions.

The lack of a previous response reflects the irrelevance of the statement. Following the General Election no single party achieved the needed majority to govern, other than as a minority, the outcome being a coalition between the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats.

The coalition agreement created a new contract, the stated aim of which, to act in the best interest of the country, to stabilise the finances and bring public spending down to an affordable level, whilst maintaining essential public services.

The aims are not deceit, rather the pragmatic politics of the day; and in Wales politicians who would sit in opposition at Westminster will do the same, cut their political cloth to meet the most essential needs, poetry can come later ...........

What are the polls showing us about the chances of a Lab/Plaid coalition? I know its a small sample but a comparison of second vote intentions of Plaid supporters shows that the grass roots supporters are disinclined to support Labour in the Regionals.
Yougov shows where the Regional vote of each party migrates from the constituency voting intention;

Three polls ago 10% of Plaid voters intended to support Labour in Regional voting.
Two polls ago 5% of Plaid voters intended to switch to Labour in the regionals (6% would switch to Tories).
By the latest poll, Plaid support for Labour in the regionals was 0% but 5% for Tory and even 3% for UKIP.

Whatever anyone might think, Plaid has convinced its supporters that Labour is to be shunned.
What I would ask is this; Plaid and labour are supposed to be on an Ideological par. For me in North West Wales it is obvious that Plaid are a reactionary culturally conservative and isolationist party on a par with UKIP and, amongst some supporters, the BNP. Plaid have garnered votes in the South by hiding their nasty side and playing up their "socialist" agenda, but in power they pursued only isolationist and Language and Culture objectives. When asked to choose, Plaid prefers the conservative and isolationist stance of Tories and UKIP to a socialist agenda.

VOTE PLAID, GET TORY!!

Can anyone point out a single point of similarity between Plaid and UKIP?

Sedwat your slogan was used by Labour in the UK general election, what happened, people voted Labour and got the Tories..

34 John Tyler

You appear to have glossed over an important part of what I was saying about Mr Cameron. He said there would be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS AFTER working with Mr Lansley on it for a considerable time but BEFORE the outcome of the general election was known. Therefore it is your comment about what happened after the result became clear, and the "pragmatic politics of the day", that is irrelevant.

He certainly was setting out to deceive the electorate. My comment stands. He should not be in power and I advise anybody reading this not to support any of his fellow Conservatives, in case they prove also to be liars.

36 Lyn David Thomas

It's worse than that. People voted Lib Dem and got the Tories. In my constituency of Brecon and Radnorshire, they voted that way after receiving a leaflet from the Lib Dems - on polling day - warning people that if they voted any way other than Lib Dem, they'd end up with a Tory. People voted Lib Dem and ended up with a Tory government anyway.

Never again. Not for me, anyway.

#37, I didn't gloss over anything of substance, you seem to belong to the politically defeated, get over it, Labour lost, the coalition govern, obviously without your approval. And the Liberal Democrats at Westminster have made a positive contribution to governance.


#36. Lyn, you wrote:

Can anyone point out a single point of similarity between Plaid and UKIP?

... my guess is both will be "losers" in the forthcoming elections.

Re 35

A lot of nonsense is spouted in this place; this probably takes the biscuit! But, at least it's gratifying to know that SEDWOT isn't quite so certain of the result by now.

39 John Tyler

No, sir, I do not belong to the politically defeated. YOU appear to belong to the morally bankrupt. If the only argument you can muster against me is "Get over it" then you are clearly a poor spokesman for the Conservatives or the coalition.

Cameron lied to the electorate in order to get votes! Considering that (as I understand it) Labour had admitted change would have to come to the NHS, his claim that there would be no top-down reorganisation of that institution is certain to have attracted votes that would otherwise have gone to other parties. As soon as he got in, he announced - what? - a top down reorganisation of the NHS, on which he had been working for years, alongside Andrew Lansley.

He is a dishonourable man and, considering he is the leader of the Conservative Party, it follows that the other Conservatives - including those in Wales - are likely to be dishonourable as well.

I can only conclude that the only arguments likely to persuade anyone to vote for this bankrupt collection of reprobates is to show their disapproval of other parties. Why on earth would anyone vote for them on their own merits?

POLLS...

...anyone got any links to polls that are tracking voter intentions at all please ppl?

38. If people voted Liberal Democrat and got Tories,those said people never read the Orange Book that was published in 2004. The contributors were Clegg/Huhne/Laws/Cable and others and basically was pretty "right wing" in seeking to solve many of our problems. The LD's are a bit like PC,in that they have two distinct "constituencies, in that they seek to garner votes with quite often very differing social/economic groups. The "social class" of Clegg/Huhne/Laws are no different to that of the Conservative party leaders,i.e Cameron/Osborne/ and it comes as no surprise that they are able to work together,particularly on getting the economy back on a "sound money" basis. The lure of OFFICE is surely part of being a politican,and explains how in the welsh context IWJ could jump into bed with King Rhodri and now Prince Carwyn.Behind the scenes of course the core supporters of PC/Labour Party hate each other with a passion.

41. At 11:02am 18th Apr 2011, Mike Sivier wrote:


Cameron lied to the electorate in order to get votes! .... NHS, his claim that there would be no top-down reorganisation of that institution is certain to have attracted votes ..... As soon as he got in, he announced - what? - a top down reorganisation of the NHS, on which he had been working for years, alongside Andrew Lansley.鈥�

Giving control of the NHS to the GPs isn鈥檛 exactly a 鈥淭op down鈥� reorganisation. But that is only nit picking.

The Tories are doing what the Tories always do, looking after those who they see as their natural supporters. This is what politicians do, that鈥檚 their 鈥渏ob鈥�.

He鈥檚 from PR, he鈥檚 obviously good at spinning the message. You have simply highlighted one instance of this. In order to carry out his 鈥渏ob鈥� he first has to get elected. This time he was marginally better at doing that than his opponents. Sad but true.

Blog designers - is it possible to have the "Sign in" button at the end of the comments instead of the beginning? Would save a lot of scrolling!