Child's play
The cultural chasm between the UK and the US is nowhere more evident than in the emotive area of children's TV. to defend the world of Teletubbies from the invasion of Disney cartoons is part of a battle that's been raging since I was a child.
Millions of boys of my generation grew up with American cultural imperialism in the shape of . I am not sure that we were greatly damaged.
On the other hand is undoubtedly British. It's very, very clever, though somewhat lacking in technical pizazz. Greeks and Romans again...
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"Millions of boys of my generation grew up with American cultural imperialism in the shape of Thunderbirds."
Actually 'Thunderbirds' was a wholly British series, made by Gerry and Sylvia Anderson for ATV, Lord Grade's company which held the ITV franchise for the Midlands.
Anything transatlantic about it was there purely in order to make it more sellable to the US!
Thunderbirds was made in the United Kingdom.
Thunderbirds is British, not American, Justin...
Undamaged by Thunderbirds? I'm watching John McCain look more like Virgil every day!
Almost all US programs for child have an element of violence in them, albeit, toned down. The cartoons of TopCat, RoadRunner etc all used guns/violence as part of the narrative for the story.
The UK shows took a completely different approach, far more subtle. It was a more "soft fluffy" style and based upon the 'innocence' of being a child.
Great UK kids programs were so good because they worked on 2 levels. The first, the pure innocence and simplicity for the child, this was the main focus. Secondly, the hidden part, which was way way above the child, as it was for the mother/parent watching with their child.
This format has gone.
However, 2 US programs have this element of appealing to the two minds watching and working on both levels. First the Simpsons. The obvious slap-stick style for the child watching. But the subtle text and commentary for an adult mind is simply wonderful.
For the more 'grwon-up' child, there is of course Malcom in the Middle. This too works on both levels, one for the more 'grown-up' teenager, and also the adult watching.
UK children shows are successful for the 0~2year olds, i.e. teletubbies, but beyond that, you are right, there is no longer any UK made shows or even good quality UK children programs. But this is also sadly refelected in the adult TV programs too. The UK has copied the successful US format of appealing to the base common denominator, ratings, not quality.
The ´óÏó´«Ã½ of old, for example, let "creative minds" come up with something, for childern and adults. But now, shows like: "The Tommorow People", "Grange Hill", "The Ghosts of Motely Hall" etc for kids or "Game-on", "Monthy Python", "Black Adder", "The Young Ones" for adults could never be made, as these are made for fun and pure creativity, not ratings!
Too each his own. I still say the best was Bugs Bunny & Road Runner.
As a brit over here I have been reading the blog with interest but had to smile at your mention of Thunderbirds - I was at a pool party last year and as the cover was rolled back electronically I said "all you need now is for Thunderbird 1 to come roaring out" and no-one had a clue what I was talking about - had to go and find a DVD and share it with them and they were amazed, almost felt a need to apologise to one of the guys as he has two boys aged 6 and 8 and he had to go out and buy the series - what a show :-)
The cultural chasm between the UK and US is no more evident than in the area of children's tellevision?
You're jokeing, right? Come on now! It seems every other entry on this blog, if not containing your own personal comments on how the UK and the US have different gun laws, crime statistics, synonyms for a given phrase/adjective/noun, educational systems, amounts of polite people, etc, etc, etc, then it seems every other blog entry has a large portion of people from our respective countries's commentary discussing those same differences-or lack there of, which ever way one wishes to look at it. I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with an area(s) of culture (entertainment or otherwise), in the US or UK, who's compairisons and contrasts to their counterpart in the other country are more devisive or apparent than that of "children's TV".
Also, "American cultural imperialism"? Personally I don't think one could be payd to come up with a more negative conotation for a nation who just happens to be enjoying its 15 minutes of fame through being the nation with the most influence in the world, who just happens to export entertainment which other countries just happen to be interested in recieving! Calling "American cultural imperialism" makes it seem as if we were shoveing our entertainment down your throats-an that is the last thing on earth, I would venture, that any one would want to be seen as trying to do-even if our entertainment is well liked in its host country!! Just as the leader of a country should (hopefully) not want to be accused of being imperialistic with respect of ecconomics or millitarism, so too I would say the same applies to entertainment, and the heads of given record companys/tellevision stations/Hollywood studios, etc, etc, etc.
Thunderbirds is British....so not sure where that leaves your American cultural imperialism reference.
Justin, Thunderbirds is a British programme. It might even be better than the Clangers.
Oh, Mr Webb, you've gone and done it now ! This will provoke a flame war blog fight which will rage and rage and rage...
For starters, how can you say that the 'Thunderbirds' are American ?! Don't be deceived by the accents, they are as quintessentially English as Woolworth's shops and Ford cars ;-]
I am not sure how you can say the 'Clangers' was the 'best programme' ever either ! Clearly opinions will vary on this - but the clear winner in various popularity polls over the years has been 'Bagpuss', which just couldn't have been made in any other country other than Britain.
Oliver Postgage is quite a political animal as well, so maybe he inserted subliminal messages about recycling and world peace into the stories about that old cloth cat, baggy and a bit loose at the seams.
Which brings us back to the Wombles, which were years ahead of their time in the message about 'make do and mend', recycling and the dangers of 'built in obsolescence.
That said, I thought ''Top Cat'' had some quite 'British' characteristics, focusing on cats opposed to the 'work all hours' culture, eschewing corporate serfdom for freedom and a cavalier attitude to the law. And Officer Dibble had roots this side of the pond remember. [The series was allegedly inspired by the great Phil Silvers' Sgt. Bilko - hardly a model for American go-getting success].
Anyway, I will the others to pitch in to this debate which I am sure will get more frantic and heated than any thing you have posted about Obama vs Hillary...
"Millions of boys of my generation grew up with American cultural imperialism in the shape of Thunderbirds."
Thunberbirds is a British TV show.
Facts, dear boy, facts!
What about Disney? Then consider that teenage culture is almost exclusively US-imported.
Justin,
Thunderbirds was made in Britain by Brits, the only American thing about it were the puppets accents. I think International Rescue was portrayed as an American organisation as much of it was inspired by the Apollo space programme. The Brits were represented though, they were often the ones that needed rescued...
It was a great show regardless!
Thunderbirds Justin? Thunderbirds?
Except that Thunderbirds was made in England, or was that a fifth column...
I'm not sure if you're joking about the Thunderbirds. That was a British TV show with American characters, not an American TV show; it could hardly be considered cultural imperialism!
I remember many American shows when I was growing up. I imagine most of the cartoons were, but the live action stuff on CITV and C´óÏó´«Ã½ all seemed British (the stuff that sticks in my mind, anyway).
If there is any culture I'd think people would be up in arms about trying to get off the TV it would be the Australian soaps!
Justin, Justin, Justin...
I'll let you off as it was well after your time, but the best kids TV show of all time is without a shadow of a doubt "The Animals of Farthing Wood"!
The 'Badass Wombles' clip, though very entertaining in its own right, makes this serious point very well indeed. Is it that buying in ready made programmes from the US and other countries is cheaper than creating and producing material in the UK? I guess so. It does make you wonder what effect this is having on the children watching these programmes, apart from the Americanisms that are creeping into the language they use. On the other hand, I bet our parents' generation wondered the same thing when they saw our fascination with The Clangers, Thunderbirds, The Banana Splits (I wanted one of those cars!), Joe 90 ...
Thunderbirds is a a British production that I also grew up with ( and the clangers too)....
nothing to do with American cultural imperialism.....
Ride the #2 subway train in the Bronx New York when school kids/teens ride, listen to their "interest" in reading, knowledge, science. There is no interest, except in their "bitches" (the girls they OWN) cell phone ring tones, street violence, territory, & bragging about their fights.
ALL of new york school teens are in gangs-even if they don't wish to be.
This gangsta/thug mentality is predatory. They ghetto-blast using their bass speakers driving around in their cars & SUV trucks (how can they afford these NEW veheicles anyway?) at all hours of the night & day, use crossWALKS to make illegal U-turns, threaten any Law enforcer or citizen with harm when they get caught doing something illegal or antisocial.
This is our world now.
Coming to a neighborhood near you.
Terrorists?
The civilians, greedy business, & govt corruption is destroying the USA more than a thousand 911's combined!
Justin - Although featuring American characters Thunderbirds (like Stingray, Captain Scarlett etc) was a British show made by Gerry Anderson for Lew Grade's ITC.
"Millions of boys of my generation grew up with American cultural imperialism in the shape of Thunderbirds."
But Gerry Anderson is British, and the company that made the show (APF Films) is British. The American accents were no doubt just to make it more marketable.
If you want to talk about actual US shows, Mission Impossible is probably a good example. I saw the repeats in the 80s as a child and absolutely loved it. The problem with watching it today is that I find it very difficult to suspend my disbelief . It's not the ludicrous gadgets and rubber masks that I have a problem with, but rather the nature of the missions. They always seem to be trying to do something like prevent a dictator from getting into power, or encourage a popular revolt against an evil dictator, often in some fictitious South American country.
This is of course completely at odds with actual CIA's operations. The kind of operations actually being undertaken in Central and South America were mostly about supporting coups against democratically elected leaders or trying to prevent or reverse popular revolts against dictators. I suppose if shows like Mission Impossible dramatised real operations, like training the Contras in torture techniques, the American public would be outraged at their own government.
But of course this is Justin Webb's America. An America whose biggest crime is apparently the popularity of its TV shows.
Maybe the UK is being invaded by Disney because most kids I know in the US are watching animated serials from Japan instead.
Nancy
Los Angeles
If Thunderbirds was an example of "American cultural imperialism", it was as seen through British eyes: the series was produced in Britain by Gerry Anderson, himself British. Only one member of the cast - the late David Holliday - was American. I would have thought that The Monkees, an all-American production, would have had more influence on young British viewers of roughly the same period. In America, Thunderbirds was not transmitted by any of the three major networks but shown on local stations. Consequently for many on this side of the pond, Thunderbirds will likely conjure up thoughts of either the air display team or the automobile, the latter second only to the Corvette as the most desirable of cars for those who had recently received their driving licences.
The Thunderbirds is now American cultural imperialism? This is a British show! Gerry and Sylvia Anderson and Supermarionation and all that. A British show isn't the best evidence that American cultural imperialism is not damaging. Star Trek would be a better, actually American, example of the same era. While not primarily for children it's definitely something part of my childhood in the Netherlands, like the Thunderbirds.
Am I missing something? How is the Thunderbirds is American cultural imperialism? This is a British show! Gerry and Sylvia Anderson and Supermarionation and all that. A British show is, I take it, not the best evidence that American cultural imperialism is not damaging. Star Trek would be a better, actually American, example from the same era. While not primarily for children it's definitely something that was part of my childhood in the Netherlands, like the Thunderbirds.
Um...
Thunderbirds was a British television programme, not American. The fact that the characters mostly - but not entirely - spoke with American accents is perhaps the effect of cultural imperialism, but the fact is that it was a British produced children's programme on British television.
The 'Badass Wombles' is obviously tongue-in-cheek (and rather brash), but it makes a clear point: there are very few British children's TV programmes being made.
So your life may have been enriched by Thunderbirds (as mine was), but if the children's TV situation in the '60s was anything like it is now, Thunderbirds would never have been made, and nor would the Clangers.
It's a pity they've targeted the language as an issue; this makes the whole thing seem rather xenophobic. But surely our children deserve their own cartoons, rather than relying on US hand-me-downs.
While most of the characters were American, wasn`t Thunderbirds itself a British production?
Granted, there are vast differences between US and UK programing. If you had Hanna-Barbera or Walter Lanz Cartoons in the UK, you might have had less brain cell loss; though I'm not sure what effect that would have on your Parliment, I KNOW what effect it had on our Congress.
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One point I would raise for your concideration. Within the US Cartoon market concider one small factor: Progames from Japan. Competing for views with the 'Thunderbirds' were shows like 'Speed Racer'. Which within the interviening years had taken the America by storm. Look at Cartoon Network or The Fox Network's Saturday Morning programing. I'm not sure if Japanese programing made a foot hold in the UK, and would be very interested to know, but I think might have been better off.
Best ever TV series for children? Something called Clangers? Sorry, but Mr. Rogers will hold a place in every American's heart, and rightfully so. :)
Thunderbirds was made in the United Kingdom.
I think Justin,that You are missing the point somewhat here.When You and I were children there was a mix of UK and US,and indeed other nations, Childrens TV on British Channels, .Now the balance has tipped overwhealmingly in Favour of US programmes,most of a very poor quality indeed compared to the 6o's and 70's.
Dear Mr Overseer of The Big British Castle
I am concerned that Justin is spending rather too much time viewing inappropriate material on the internet and passing it off as 'research'.
How can he expect to uncover the next Watergate scandal, Lewinsky affair or pretzel chokage if he is occupying himself with the Thunderbirds?
Might I suggest that his YouTube privileges ought to be revoked.
Yours
John Q. Concerned-Licence-Payer
Much as I love the Clangers, your comparison might have been even more powerfull if Thunderbirds had not been an entirely British show shot in Slough.
Whist you may well feel that Thunderbirds was an example of American cultural imperialism, it would do to remember that it was a wholly British production.