Europe speaks softly
"If nobody is held responsible, it will happen again, I am absolutely sure."
The rather chilling words of Marina Litvinenko, the widow of the man apparently murdered by poisoning with a rare artificial radioactive element in a London hotel.
She is in Lisbon because the European Union鈥檚 leaders are meeting President Putin for a regular summit.
At the moment, there are no plans to raise this case, but just to talk in general terms about human rights.
Mrs Litvinenko says it鈥檚 not a matter of human rights, but of European safety, and the EU should give formal backing to the British position.
One voice
The best the European Commission hopes for from this meeting is to get it over without any real rows, and without rocking the boat.
Throughout my trip to Latvia, Lithuania and Poland I heard the same refrain: Europe must speak with one voice.
In Gdansk, the grand old man who helped bring communism to its knees, Lech Walesa - surrounded by pictures of himself with the last pope, a cruxifix on the wall over his shoulder - told me he was in no doubt how to deal with Russia: 鈥渟olidarity鈥.
Europe had a single interest, and yes it should speak with one voice, he said.
Curiously, for an organisation that鈥檚 often thought to lack clout, the European Union does matter to Russia.
When, a few months ago, EU foreign ministers issued a statement backing Britain鈥檚 demand to extradite the man suspected of murdering Alexander Litvinenko, the Russian response was swift and furious. This was a matter between Britain and Russia. If the EU raised it again there would be consequences.
Locked wardrobes
One Western diplomat said, "They wanted to lock this case in a wardrobe marked 'UK'." Indeed, the Russians have lots of wardrobes for lots of issues, from the ban on Polish meat to Estonia鈥檚 treatment of its Russian minority.
The Russian ambassador to the European Union, with his curly grey hair and mischievous smile, seems an avuncular teddy-bear of a man. Only when he speaks do you get a hint the bear may have claws of steel.
He told me, talking about the Baltics not Britain, that the European Union hindered bilateral relationships.
Indeed the EU鈥檚 principle of - here he used Lech Walesa鈥檚 favourite word 鈥 solidarity, hindered good relations with the EU itself.
President Putin is now in Portugal, and I wonder whether it was any coincidence that just before he arrived he talked on the phone about a juicy energy deal to the prime minister of Norway, a country resolutely outside the European Union?
Great power aspirations
But why does Russia bother?
One diplomat told me the Russians saw themselves as a great power, the equal of big international organisations like Nato and the EU. They鈥檙e also desperate to join the World Trade Organisation. This where they want high business to take place 鈥 other, lesser nations would be bought or bullied with oil or trade, the diplomat said.
Well, perhaps the EU is not so different to a country, at least in that respect.
The leaders here are anxious not to rock the boat, and want to emerge from this summit without any major disagreements.
In this case the EU carries a fairly big stick, but will probably choose to speak softly rather than use it.
I鈥檓 Mark Mardell, the 大象传媒's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
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>>> the Russian response was swift and furious. This was a matter between Britain and Russia. If the EU raised it again there would be consequences
This phrase speaks volumes about Russian politics. "Divide and conquer" is their motto. And how dare they threaten EU with 'consequences'? A clear message to EU diplomats is 'be united or fall prey into bear's claws'.
The problem is that Russia is a bully and it can only get worse with oil prices going up everyday.
If you look at Russia's acts in last couple of years, you will find that Russia has been engaged in very dirty public relations with most of its old USSR friends. Even with one of its best ally, India, Russia is behaving bully as Russian increased the price of fighter jets by 5% and India had no option but to accept it. Deliveries are always late. They had problem with UK too. But i doubt EU will not strong enough to stand by UK, instead they will stand by Russia since EU has never been united.
I think it is time for the world to stand up and face the Russia. There are nothing but coward bully.
Mark, cannot understand your remark about Norway. We have got 24% in Shtockman and it a big success for Norwegian Statoil/Hydro. Are so jeaulous that your Britain has got nothing?
Russia has an economy the size of South Korea鈥檚. Its population has fallen from 167 million in 1911 to 149 million in 1992 to 142 million today. The US Census Bureau predict it will be 111 million by 2050 with the UN Population Division making 2050 projections as low as 100 million. Given that the economy of S.E. England is larger than that of Russia there is no reason to imagine Russia is some enormous bogeyman such that we have to have the EU 鈥榮peak with one voice鈥 to it.
Britain should never prioritise relations with country A over country B simply because A is an EU member and B is not, nor should Brussels ever have a role in mediating our foreign policy with non-EU countries.
The ideal situation is indeed to speak softly. Just never allowing the other side to forget the stick is there.
Hopefuly the future foreign mini... I mean High Representative will bring further union to this Union of ours, when dealing, at least in economic terms, with the likes of Russia, US, China, etc.
With any luck, maybe one day we'll be the ones bullying Marroco/Egypt/Syria with our green energy ;)
As far as Russia is concerned Normal service has resumed - back to the cold war rhetoric. I also think Putin is the most dangerous man on the planet!
"Europe must speak with one voice." Mark, do you mean than Europe must speak the voice of Latvia/Poland/Lithuania? And what do you mean by dealing with Russia with solidarity? Sounds quite offencive and agressive against Russia. I think you should understand that in order to deal with Russia effectively you should first of all respect Russian interests.
Yes, the old, beloved and disgraceful appeasement strategy.
It is always delightful to read something of Mr Mardell's. What I would like to ask you to consider, however, is how you manage to select your 'Russia experts.' Marina Litvinenko, Vladimir Bukovsky, a gentleman in Gdansk... Are you actually doing research to formulate opinions on the way to a policy, or is it in fact that you need to find voices willing to provide 'evidence' for a policy pre-packaged and pre-formulated for you, most likely outside the UK, in DC or some provincial backwater where history is only studied in pre-approved snippets edited by the thought police? Because History is a force, my friends, and the actual history -- not the historiography, and not the political policy invention that is intended to shore up some pet sector of economics (that highly erratic & mostly undisciplined tangle of contradictory practices aiming to be 'scientific') -- the actual History is pretty clear: Europe does best when it is not at war with Russians, when it is not getting ready for war with Russians, and when its interactions with Russians are warm, friendly, cordial, frequent, lively, rich with meaning and above all driven by delight in intellectual pursuits and the satisfaction of mutual curiosities about each other. In that sense, it is not unlike a really good marriage that works. But there has to be freedom for both partners in it, and an atmosphere not of recriminations (frankly, Europeans have sunk to the tone of a shrill insecure wife in recent years), but rather of excitement about having chosen well in each other. As you know, in a happy union, there exists perfect balance between the two sides. That is not to say there can't be disagreements or even quarrels, but these have to take place within a framework of appreciating that you find each other extremely interesting to be with, and you get more accomplished as a team than as angry, recently (acrimoniously) divorced people on the prowl for a quick fix from someone -- from anyone. Look at the map: Europe and Russia completment each other perfectly: YOU FIT TOGETHER, and there is balance in the curious physical contrast of your sizes... The trouble is, you keep on seeking out opinions from people who always exist, in any society: opportunistic malcontents with more flaws than merits, who seek something for themselves by denigrating people they fundamentally envy. I can take you to Poland and introduce you to scores of pro-Russia Poles; I can show you ex-dissidents who, unlike Bukovsky, admire Putin and pray for him; I can introduce you to oligarchs who like Berezovsky made fortunes in the 90s, and unlike Berezovsky are quite pleased with the status quo, and would rather lose everything again that have any more bloody revolutions or street riots (not just in Russia, anywhere). How can the 大象传媒 actually have Bukovsky on TV calling for a 'popular uprising' as in 1917? Don't you realise how many scores of millions died because the Russian mob went berserk & couldn't stop raping, killing, torturing? Don't you realise how British interests suffered, amongst others? Don't you see 1917 created the conditions for the rise of the Nazis, for genocide, for WW2? Do you actually want more of that? Why are the people in charge of your programmes at the 大象传媒 so hesitant to show someone else's point of view -- the point of view of millions of Poles, and Russians, and Ukrainians, and Balts, and others WHO BENEFITTED from all the changes that Gorbachev put in motion in the USSR, that led to the collapse of Communism & the new realities -- including the inevitable restoration of a free, sovereign Russia as an INDEPENDENT force, and a significant one, in the great community of nations? Seriously, Mr Mardell, there are plenty of viewpoints available from Russians who speak English and even Russians who have never been tainted by past associations with the Soviet system or any of its bodies, who will disagree vehemently with Litvinenko, Berezovsky and the sundry others who seen to exploit funding opportunities from a West that has money to waste in the hope of forcing Russia back into a state of slavery to Communists (or other foreign interests -- even American ones). Russians want to be free, that is why they support Putin. And they will sooner fight a war again, than give up their freedom. Whatever ephemeral (putative) gains were
accomplished by destabilising Kiev, at great expense, and then paralysing a small country, will not be achieved in Russia, not now, not ever -- not even for vast amounts of ready money that is not even remotely available for such adventures. Give it up already. Learn to live with Russia. Learn to accept the Russian view of things as willingly as you accept the official John Paul 2-sanctioned Polish one. Make more money & have a better time, just as you try to in all your other transactions. Let the malcontents grouse away: their opinions don't make any difference whatsoever to anyone except themselves. But in your profession, the profession of sharing information with those who might benefit from the knowledge, you really owe it to your own reputation, not to mention integrity, to allow equal time to those Russia experts who, like myself, see things diametrically the other way from the Litvinenko-Berezovsky kitchen cabinets -- and have the logical arguments, the facts, and the life experience to dispel their glib, misleading phrases.
I am getting really fed up of hearing that we are expected to show "solidarity" just because we are in the EU. The governments in particular who are demanding it need to earn the respect that provides for instant solidarity with their views. Judging by the recently departed Polish PM Kaczinski's wildly reactionary politics, and thousands of people marching on the Latvian goverment in recent days protesting corruption, forgive me but frankly I don't trust these goverments enough to just take their word for it on how to deal with a third country, never mind one as important a trading partner as Russia. I would rather our government cane to an independent conclusion on how to proceed in the best interests of Britain rather than be roped into supporting a common position defined by the Poles and the Balts. A story today on the 大象传媒 details how a gay rally in Vilnius, Lithuania, was banned "on safety grounds". As a measure of solidarity, should we in the other EU countries automatically do the same?
@Lana [#7]:
Lana, Russians murdered a man they did not like in one of EU countries, do you propose we should respect such Russian interests?
As for the 'voice of Latvia/Poland/Lithuania' these are the countries that were most subject to Russian (neee.. Soviet) 'friendship' and their voice is of those who have had plenty of experience and good memory.
Funny that EU never speaks with one voice against the US bully...
I really enjoyed the comment "Even with one of its best ally, India, Russia is behaving bully as Russian increased the price of fighter jets by 5% and India had no option but to accept it."
So, the fact that practically all metals, all other materials and an energy to produce them is getting more and more expensive every year still doesn't make any difference for the third world - they expect prices of what they're buying to stay the same, otherwise its "bulling of them". If India is Russia's ally - God save everybody else from having 'allies' like that.
When Europe speaks in one voice it is the voice of the largest economy of the world and does certainly carry weight.
It is important however that having this power does not lead to a neo-imperialist approach. The 'stick', as Mr Mardell puts it, should only be applied in a defensive manner, for example if Putin's administration tries to bully a member state.
On the other hand, as one of the readers suggests, Europe should indeed strive to respect the legitimate interests of others.
"With every month it [Russia] becomes more and more like the former Soviet Union, with the return of political repression, political prisoners and even the return of the abuse of psychiatry for political repression."
George Bush said that? CIA director did? Some pathological Russophob?
No, it was a famous Soviet dissident, Vladimir Bukovsky, during his most recent trip to putinesqe Russia.
While somebody who's never been a dissident but a Soviet Communist Party's General Secretary and a Russian patriot has just formed a socialdemocratic party with an objective to oppose, as he put it, "dismanletment of democratic freedoms and return to autocratic methods of governance in Russia."
He's name? Mikhail GORBATCHEV!
P.S. I've watched your interview with Mrs. Litvinenko and admired her composure and restraint under very trying circumstances.
Europe-EU without Russia is simply a lame duck.
_As far as EU is concerned the choice is clear. If EU wishes to be a serious player in International affairs then it needs Russia. Without Russia EU will continue to be treated as a low class hotel.
- We have had the chance to have Russia in EU long time ago but alas we never received permisssion or authorisation by the neocons on the other side of the altantic.
-- One more comment if Turkey wants to be in EU, then Russia is by default is EU. In all aspects either social, cultural etc Russia deserves to be in EU.
Sobedy commenting on your triptic has written:
"Right now Russia is aiming for a legitimate stance in world politics."
May I ask for examples of that approach other than sabotaging UN resolutions vis-a-vis genocidal dictatorships in Sudan and Burma, subjugating Chechnya, destabilizing Georgia and, last but not least, supplying nuclear technology to the fanatical Islamic Sharia-based caliphate of Grand Ayatollah Ali Khomenei?
Well, I've heard that "Russia is a bully" many times, especially in connection of gas price raising for Ukraine and Belarus, but not a lot of western people knew (or want to appreciate?) that prior to this raise natural gas prices in Siberia were higher then in Ukraine. Generally, every time Russian natural gas prices are discussed it looks to me as a bullying from Europe side of the pipe.
Russia is falling back in to the drakness of a dictatorship. Sadly their people have only ever had 10-15 years of democracy but never knew what to do with it. They are scared of it and would rather be led by a regime and leader who makes all their decisions for them.
The Russian govenment had a great opportunity to boost the economy and become a reliable, stable energy partner for the EU and many more countries besides. They could have invested the cash in improvements for their mainly poverty stricken people living outside the big cities. Instead, they have spent the cash on themselves and weapons. We must oppose their bully tactics until they learn to behave in a business like way. That could be a long way off.
I have to ask again. Why does Russia allways have to be an outsider? Them aginst us. This is the kind of rhetoric that starts wars. You are hiping yourselves up to hate Russia. Why not consider her like one of your own? Why not Russia in EU? Reading your comments one would think you are ready to send in the marines you do not have. So may be the Uhlans. Or if that does not work send in the American Marines. When I look at Europe what do I see? A glutoniouss consumer of natural resources - especially ennergy with a population of 410 million. There is Russia with 140 million and you are treating her as somekind of third world country. Russia has the ennergy and you don't. You want it but Russia makes it hard on the quizling states like Poland and the Baltics. They want it cheap. They are abusing their Russian minorities but cry wolf when Russia reciprocates with trade barriers. Or how dare she bypass Poland with a pipe line under the Baltic. That is why they want Europe to speak with one voice - these American Quizling states. Half of them even have American Presidents. And America wants Russia to be Yeltsin-nided. Stupid, drunk but happy. And now Russia refuses to play by that script. Holly cow - we have a new Cold War. EU should spend more time promoting civil relations with Russia rather than push for your kind of democracy. Democracy comes in many forms. General rule is, the better people are off the more freedom they can enjoy. It allways ties into economic well being. Russia needs more time and China even more. American Democracy is different than UK or France. There are variables. Look at the US today how willingly they give up their freedoms to fight shadows. Why aren't you crying about that? Russia is European like it or not. It is there to stay. You will never annihilate her or defeat her. So get use to it being there and behave as good neighbours should.
I'm not convinced by the EU's 'fairly big stick'. More like a limp stick of celery. But then I've always been sceptical about the value of the EU's 'soft power', and not just with regards to Russia.
'Solidarity' is no solution. 27 eunuchs speaking 'as one' are still impotent. Putin will run rings around the energy hungry EU.
The Russians want the power of the former Soviet Union back. European Union is shy when it comes to point out what is wrong with them. I think it rather shows that the European voice sounds like a whisper to the Russian ear.
Of course Putin's regime does not want a strong EU, just like some American conservatives like Jonah Goldberg don't want a strong EU, because it will mean a more than equal power to deal with, as opposed to a bunch of small European states that largely followed the lead of the US and USSR for 50 years. This is pure power politics, which is what really runs international relations. Western Europe used to rule the world, and the US and Russia don't want that to happen again.
"A house divided will not stand"
-Abraham Lincoln
Ha, and can You imagine now how "pleasant" it is to be Russia's neighbour? Ukraine is always under the threat of the Russian stick, and we are sure that European stick would never be used to protect us, as we are "lesser" nation for both EU and Russia. Nice, isn't it?
Most Russians are European and most of Russia is geographically in Europe. We have no problem with either here in Spain either coming on holidy, which they are doing in ever increasing numbers, to work or to study. Perhaps this is in part due to the fact that the USSR was the only country which gave material assistance to the elected Republican Goverment in the Civil War of 1936 to 39.
Quote: "Of course we have private medicine in Russia. Cummunism has been dead for 20 year". said by Olga a hospital Doctor from Siberia living ad working here. Time to let go of the past and grab the future. It will take quite some number of years but I for one look forward to Russia becoming a full menber of the European Community.
There is only one bully out there....america.It's about time the Russian bear woke up from its hibernation.
We have had the chance to have Russia in EU long time ago but alas we never received permisssion or authorisation by the neocons on the other side of the altantic.[#16]
Unfortunately, because of those neocons (or rather bona fide conservatives) you've never got a chance to have EU in USSR, either.
What a shame! ;-(
In reply to Thomas from Canada.
Thomas your argument is naive to the extreme. If your wondering why Russia is not welcomed with open arms look at the countries they invaded and annexed at the end of WW2. Look how their government treated their own citizens and others. Have you never heard of the great famine in which about 5 million Russians and Ukranian's starved to death? Everytime someone wants to be friends with Russia the friendship is abused by the Russian government. Countries such as Poland did not complain about the price of Russian gas. They were worried their supply would be cut off as a result of Russia punishing poorer countries like Ukraine over gas prices. Europe needed a friend in WW2 but her Polish allies received a stab in the back by the same type of person who is currently ruling Russia. Europe wants to do business with Russia in a fair manner but they (the current Russian regime) don't understand the international rules of economics and commerce.
"Europe wants to do business with Russia in a fair manner but they (the current Russian regime) don't understand the international rules of economics and commerce."
Richard,
Are you claiming that Europe is not trying to limit Russian access to Europe's market?
Do you know what you're talking about?
To Thomas from Canada (#20)
Thomas, you haven't apparently red Russian main newspapers or watched their TV-channels. Otherwise you would have known that the same rhetoric -- Russia against others -- has been used in Russia for a long time. All the EU members, even the 'quisling' (according to your terminology) states like Poland and the Baltics, want good relationships with Russia. Because of that, EU has ignored brutalities in Chechnya, abuse of native minorities in Russia (do you even know that not all 140 million inhabitants are ethnic Russians?), and decline in freedom of speech. Democracy does not come in many forms but it is more advanced in some societies than others. In Russia, democracy is regressing while in Canada it has developed into a very advanced stage. That is why there are Russian communities in US, Canada, or EU, but not vice versa. The question is: Should a democratic society lower its values in the name of good relationships with a non-democratic society?
eu backed by the us may well take a softer and middle of the road policy towards russia which has recovered from the carefully orchestrated disaster in the early nineties ,and which had partially disintegrated it. its rivalry in the economic and energy fields with the west which cannot sfford to lose its hold of the middle east oil, has to be accepted in the concept of a free world trade and economy. a peaceful coexistence and acceptance of the realities may well be the only answer in dealing with the re-emerged champions for the have nots. nots.
In response to Richard Fforbes: Any comment can be seen as naive.
However I come from one of these Quizling Nations. I was there under the communists. I had to learn Russian for 11 years in my school days. I hated the system and indirectly Russia also. But I have met many Russians and they are the warmest and friendliest people. Funny though, living in Canada I have met many Americans and they too are warm and friendly people. And I love Eastern Europe. It never left my heart. But I also love intelectual honesty and that is why I can afford to be critical of the current foreign policy practices of the "Shater Belt" nations.
Talk of Russia invading their neighbours. It was the Poles that burned Moscow in 1604. It was the 100 thousand Poles and many other Eastern Europeans that joined the Napoleon's army invading Russia in 1812. It was General Pilsudsky and his dream of "Medzumorie" from Baltic to the Black Sea who invaded Soviet Union in 1921. And it was the Latvian Guards that saved the Soviet Union from the Whites in 1920. And in 1939 post Munich it was Germany, Hungary and yes the Poles that partitioned Czechoslovakia. My father was drafted into the Hungarian army and sent out with another 100 thousand to Russia. It would not have mattered if Hungary did not reclaim that part of Slovakia. He would have had to go with the 80 thousand strong Slovak army to Russia anyway.
This is why I am talking of Quzling Nations. And also because I was there on the May 1 parades each year and there were these big signs in Slovak. "Zo Sovietskym Svazom na vecne casy" (With Soviet Union for ever) and "Kto neni s nama je proti nam" (Who is not with us is against us). Sounds familiar? A hint of George Bush perhaps? The system could not have existed and operated without a willing populace not just in Czechoslovakia but Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and I could go on and on. Just one more thing: in 1968 when Czechs tried for freedom guess who invaded: Soviet Union, Germans, Hungarians and Poland. That is why they are just Quizling Nations.
As for the 5 million Ukrainians that Russians supposedly killed in the now enshrined "Haldomore". First of all it was Soviet Union, and Ukraine was part of Soviet Union. Among the dead were other nationalities. This was not intended as a kill the Ukrainians project. And I heard of figures as high as 30 million. Who was counting? The first secretary of the Communist Party of Soviet Union was Stalin. And he was Geogian! You know - Shakashvilli's co national. So what am I trying to say?? First of: there is no gain in regurgitating past wrongs because they go both ways and they keep going both ways. Russia will not go away and Europe needs her resources. Europe has no other means of securing those resources therefore she must accept a proper business relationship controled by mutual dependency. Another solution is bringing Russia into the Union. Then the "Shatter Belt" (google it) Nations will no longer need to fear for the loss of their culture and heritage or territory. It will have become a mute point. This is a time when they must accept Russia as their own. They are not so very different anyway!
Hey, Mirek Kondracki, why don't you just build a wall through Europe along the Russian border?
Wait... we've been there already ...
If the EU were to stop the Islamic invasion of Europe instead of drafting "human rights" which seem to have the intention of encouraging it, I would believe in the EU. I would believe in it even more if it were to adopt the Baltic requirement for citizenship with its reference point as 1940.
As it is all it can do is mouth words. (Actually they are mouthed by discarded politicians whom we call Commissioners) Most Europeans are quite aware that Russians apart from the the oligarchs who became billionaires overnight are fellow Europeans
But Russians should rightly be worried about American interference as wherever they went (and still go) to protect their imperial interests they divide and fragmentize the area which is probably intended but they soon turn tail leaving a mess behind as in Korea, Vietnam,Afghanistan, Lebanon, and now Iraq. They want to create a second Albania in Kosovo whereas most knowledgible people know that it could become similar to the Islamic section of Bosnia which has been proved to be where the 9/11 plotters had their trial run. They even want to dump Turkey with its Islamist government (" the minarets are our bayonets") into Europe where already half the immigrants want shariah law. Contrastingly they haven't asked the Turks to give independence to its 15 million Kurds who want it. We Europeans should not be made to suffer because Americans are living beyond their means.(Their is talk of the euro being worth $1.50 which means they are giving us worthless paper for real goods.)
If I was a Russian reader of this blog I would indeed be proud of the country's and Putin's achievements. How he turned the country's fortunes round in 8 years is amazing. American patriots like Pat Buchanan approve of him, the great Solzhenytsin approves of him and even the Pope was glad to hear that he was a committed Christian. I would disregard idiotic comments such as that " the US Census Bureau predict the population will be 111 million by 2050" It would have been more pertinent to say that a string of towns from Birmingham to London would have a Pakistani majority in 5 years, or that Marseilles already has an Arab majority, or that America's majority will soon be Mexican or African Americans as they call the blacks now.
The facts are that we Europeans did not give a toss about smoked pilchards?(or whatever).Now even Litvinenko has been proved to be an employee of Berezovsky,(who is wanted by 2 countries), had been paid by Britain's Secret Service and according to some Pakistani mullahs in Britain becane a Moslem. We care even less for him now. British and other European entrepreneurs are investing heavily in Russia - $70 billion in the first eight months. It seems that quite a few Europeans want a bit of the Russian action and are ebvious of the Norwegians. I myself wouldn't mind having a second home somewhere between Crimea and Abkhazia. And I would glad I would be contributing to their now customary 12% real wage increase, not exploiting them like the oligarchs. And like the Portuguese prime Minister most Latins (ie French, Portugues, Italian, Spanish) admire the Russian culture, its real hospitality and the remarkable beauty of its women.
If the EU were to stop the Islamic invasion of Europe instead of drafting "human rights" which seem to have the intention of encouraging it, I would believe in the EU. I would believe in it even more if it were to adopt the Baltic requirement for citizenship with its reference point as 1940.
As it is all it can do is mouth words. (Actually they are mouthed by discarded politicians whom we call Commissioners) Most Europeans are quite aware that Russians apart from the the oligarchs who became billionaires overnight are fellow Europeans
But Russians should rightly be worried about American interference as wherever they went (and still go) to protect their imperial interests they divide and fragmentize the area which is probably intended but they soon turn tail leaving a mess behind as in Korea, Vietnam,Afghanistan, Lebanon, and now Iraq. They want to create a second Albania in Kosovo whereas most knowledgible people know that it could become similar to the Islamic section of Bosnia which has been proved to be where the 9/11 plotters had their trial run. They even want to dump Turkey with its Islamist government (" the minarets are our bayonets") into Europe where already half the immigrants want shariah law. Contrastingly they haven't asked the Turks to give independence to its 15 million Kurds who want it. We Europeans should not be made to suffer because Americans are living beyond their means.(Their is talk of the euro being worth $1.50 which means they are giving us worthless paper for real goods.)
If I was a Russian reader of this blog I would indeed be proud of the country's and Putin's achievements. How he turned the country's fortunes round in 8 years is amazing. American patriots like Pat Buchanan approve of him, the great Solzhenytsin approves of him and even the Pope was glad to hear that he was a committed Christian. I would disregard idiotic comments such as that " the US Census Bureau predict the population will be 111 million by 2050" It would have been more pertinent to say that a string of towns from Birmingham to London would have a Pakistani majority in 5 years, or that Marseilles already has an Arab majority, or that America's majority will soon be Mexican or African Americans as they call the blacks now.
The facts are that we Europeans did not give a toss about smoked pilchards?(or whatever).Now even Litvinenko has been proved to be an employee of Berezovsky,(who is wanted by 2 countries), had been paid by Britain's Secret Service and according to some Pakistani mullahs in Britain becane a Moslem. We care even less for him now. British and other European entrepreneurs are investing heavily in Russia - $70 billion in the first eight months. It seems that quite a few Europeans want a bit of the Russian action and are ebvious of the Norwegians. I myself wouldn't mind having a second home somewhere between Crimea and Abkhazia. And I would glad I would be contributing to their now customary 12% real wage increase, not exploiting them like the oligarchs. And like the Portuguese prime Minister most Latins (ie French, Portugues, Italian, Spanish) admire the Russian culture, its real hospitality and the remarkable beauty of its women.
Re #29
1.Since you speak about Hungary I couldn't help noticing that you've somehow forgotten to mention certain massacre in Hungary in 1956, which was NOT committed by a 'coalition of the unwilling' (read: Warsaw Pact].
2.Don't use that worn-out, laughable and indefensible argument that "Stalin was Georgian". I've never met a German who would be silly enough to raise an argument that "Hitler was Austrian".
3. Before you even touch a subject of the Polish-Bolshevik War, let alone Polish invasion of USSR, find out why two seminal events of that war (in which mighty Red Army has been soundly defeated by much smaller Polish forces) are called, respectively, Battle of Zamosc, and Battle of Warsaw.
[a hint: it's slightly west of what even then constituted Soviet territory]
4. It's 'QuiSling', not 'QuiZling' as you repeat ad nauseam. Perhaps you should ask this nice lady hailing from Norway, who so bravely stands up here for interests of Putinland and Statoil, why she doesn't use that term herself.
5. In view of your statement that "they [countries formerly enslaved my Moscow Empire] must accept Russia as their own" I can only conclude that motto "Zo Sovietskym Svazom na vecne casy" (With Soviet Union for ever)" has indeed been deeply embedded in your psyche during your school days.
To Maksim (post #30 )........
Hey,Maxim O.K....as long as you
want to be on the east side !
Tomas from Canada said "As for the 5 million Ukrainians that Russians supposedly killed in the now enshrined "Haldomore". First of all it was Soviet Union, and Ukraine was part of Soviet Union. Among the dead were other nationalities. This was not intended as a kill the Ukrainians project."
Of course it was not intended as a kill the Ukrainians project..the Ukrainian people were denied the status of a nation for the greater good of the USSR. Stalin wanted to change the culture of Ukraine which was largely rural and self sufficient, therefore independent. Famine was a means to an end. Peasants were driven to the cities and forced to seek employment for wages.
I look forward to the day when Ukraine is viewed as one of the European family of nations rather than a country under the Russian sphere of influence
Jean (#16),
Europe without Russia being a lame duck....???
Russia being a part of Europe is a great idea. But do you really think that Russia wants to be a part or Europe? Or would it rather have Europe as a part of Russia? Just read entries # 26 and 33... . Or listen to Mr. Putin...
How can Europe speak with one voice if some EU countries are openly against other EU countries and openly favor countries outside the EU in their illegitimate disputes(to put it mildly) or even hostile actions against fellow EU countries? The UK is a prime example, openly favoring Turkey which is illegally occupying an EU country(Cyprus). If The EU wants to be like the US, then it is unthinkable that one EU country would say recognize Argentina's annexation of the Falklands.
There had already been 2 cases when Europe was united against Russia:1812 -under Napoleon,1941-under Hitler.To day we are witnessing continuation of the same politics by another means.It
is more complicated version-under cover of democracy.Keep in mind-It is very cold in Russia.
A.Dimitriou - you are right: Cyprus shouldn't be in the EU - it is, after all, east of Istanbul and south of Tunis.
Max Sceptic,
you got your geography wrong, but even so, where does this leave the Falklands, Reunion , French Caledonia
?
I heard from many people that the UK should not be in Europe, the point is though it is. If you want a smaller Europe to speak with one voice,
I guess all you are saying is dismantle the current EU, in which case the blog itself is pointless.
To Thomas from Canada
Please learn history before you start posting. This Soviet propaganda reminds me the worst days of the past.
And just one comment:
"Just one more thing: in 1968 when Czechs tried for freedom guess who invaded: Soviet Union, Germans, Hungarians and Poland."
Well, do you think that this was an independent decicion of this nations?
Cheers
The EU needs to start taking stands. They should come up with their official stand by vote in parliament, and then they should stick by it firmly. If member countries don't like it, they should either get used to occasionally being overrulled or leave the EU. If the EU breaks up, then nobody cares about it enough to work to keep it together. Plain. Simple. Right now, the EU looks weak and tentative.
A.Dimitriou, my geography is impeccable - check an atlas and see for yourself.
I'd prefer the UK to remain within the EU so long as the EU is just a 'free-trading zone'. Talk of 'ever closer union' is what most British people object to.
Is this Blog useless - of course not: it is, firstly, an entertaining and sometimes perceptive account by a good journalist (sorry for sucking up, Mark) and, secondly, provides a forum to debate issues that affect Europe and Europeans (not the same thing as EU and EUrophilliacs).
As this Blog is hosted funded by the 大象传媒 (the British Broadcasting Corporation, funded by British tax payers) you should not be surprised that Bristish people - the majority of whom are 'EUrosceptic' use this site to discuss and debate Britain's relationship with the EU. To be quite honest, I don't care one way or the other what the citizens of other countries think about Britain's relationship with the EU. The policies of Britain are a matter that should be decided by British citizens alone in the interests of furthering British interests. This does not, as most of my countrymen would agree, involve ceding sovereignty to 26 other nations.