Tata and British jobs
Tata Motor Company, the Indian motor manufacturer, will announce on Wednesday that it has agreed to buy Land Rover and Jaguar for around £1bn from Ford.
The purchase agreement is likely to be seen by trade unions as safeguarding jobs in the UK for two reasons.
First, Tata will commit to following an existing five-year plan to invest in and develop the car manufacturing businesses. Jaguar and Rover employ just under 16,000 people, most of them in the Midlands and at Halewood near Liverpool.
Also, Tata will contract to buy engines and other parts from Ford until at least 2012, which should protect employment at Ford’s plants in Dagenham and Bridgend.
As of now, Tata has no plans to relocate manufacturing capacity to low-cost India. Instead it appears to see the purchase of Land Rover and Jaguar as a route into the middle to top end of the global motorcar market.
The deal represents one of the most ambitious purchases of a British based manufacturer by any company from the fast growing economies of Asia.
Ford will also try to reassure employees of Jaguar and Land Rover that they will face no financial risks from the takeover and that their pensions are safe – because it will inject £300m into their pension scheme, to eliminate any deficit.
Tata will be buying businesses that collectively made £250m of pre-tax profit in 2007. However that masks massively different performances from Land Rover and Jaguar, because Jaguar is lossmaking and all of that profit – plus a bit more – was made by Land Rover.
Land Rover is also three or four times the size of Jaguar by output.
Because Ford is a US company and Tata Motor Company’s shares are listed in the US, the purchase agreement will probably be announced early tomorrow morning in the US, or about mid-day in the UK.
Analysts are expected to say that £1bn for operations making £250m a year in profit – and without the burden of a pension fund deficit – represents a decent deal for Tata. But Jaguar and Land Rover require hundreds of millions in investment over the next few years. And returning Jaguar to profitability will neither be easy or without risks.
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It would make economic sense in the long run after the four to five year contractual period to move all plant activities to India. That would lead to even the Jaguar cars being produced with a positive profit margin. The skills required for any of the vehicles are available and realatively cheap, as well as the land and car production machinery. Tata diversifying into the more luxury global market is a good move for them as the range is now from the cheapest car in the world to mid range luxury cars, with production costs much lower than that in the UK and potentially far more efficient due to competition for good employment in India. Cheap, efficient, quality, abundance of labour and a growing global diversified company.
It shows how low this country has sunk when you have an Indian and US entities haggling over a couple of iconic UK companies.
I could never understand why Ford bought Jaguar in the first place. Perhaps they saw it as a trophy.
We are led to believe by industry analysts that the Government would be happy for the British Army and other agencies to continue buying Land Rover vehicles even if they were made in India, as long as their quality was not compromised following a move of production to India.
Are they for real?
How can the Government expect the Army to rely upon 3rd world support for their fleet of vehicles?
Why invest in Jaguar? It is the distribution network that is of any real value to Tata, it is time to keep the profitable parts in the UK and move Jaguar to India where the production cost bring the value arguement in play for Jaguar.
Tata will use the next 5 years to establish contacts and learn the buisness inside out. Tata middle-management will be rotated through for hands-on experience.
Meanwhile back in India the time will be used to devlop new sites and expand existing ones.
Sometime around the end of 5 years the whole thing will be relocated.
Safely on the otherside of the next general election
For Tata profit is usually a secondary motive, at least in its operations in India. JRD Tata who founded Tata lived a simple life, but contributed a lot to India by investing in the community and developing so many scientific institutions. May Tata's expansion to outside India have such well intentions, although without being profitable, it cannot do much help to anybody.
I wise move by Ford as both of the product lines of Jaguar and Range Rover are off the scale when it comes to emmisions. Only expensive high technology investment will save these two names and do Tata have that?
The sale of Land Rover and Jaguar is sad, but not in the least unexpected.
It was a mistake combining the two brands into one company - Jaguar Land Rover. The two brands are worlds apart. Although there may be common components, Land Rover as a brand is hugely appealing and has a consistent, highly respected and popular product range. Jaguar, on the other hand, has an unpopular and patchy product line. You cannot build a great, profitable brand on inconsistency.
It will be interesting to see how Tata manage Jaguar's huge losses and, likewise it will be interesting to see how Tata builds on Land Rover's ever more up-market image.
It is fair to say that Land Rover did very well during the BMW years, with good progress made with reliability and build quality. But it was during the Ford years that Land Rover began to thrive, and I hope that Tata's acquisition does not compromise this.
Ultimately, Tata has no PASSION for building premium cars - there may be a DESIRE, but PASSSION only comes from experience. So its another case of 'time will tell...'
For me though, I would re-establish the Freelander assembly line at Sollihull, de-merge the two companies and sell off Jaguar. Okay, you would not get much for Jaguar in the process, but with Tata the new owners, it is unlikely they are going to accept billion pound losses for very long.
GARY McCARTNEY
"And returning Jaguar to profitability will neither be easy or without risks."
I don not agree, it will be esay. How? Well, start buy making world class cars by designing new models and not the constant update of the drab existing models. Make more models, eg Mercedes-Benz & BMW.
As once said by the founder of McDonalds, create the supply and the demand will come.
It says it all for British marque vehicles when we relied on Ford/BMW and now we get our come upance the same way as the Royal Enfield byke
As a Jaguar worker for over 20 years I am well placed to say that all of the staff I talk to are happy and relieved that Tata have come in for us. We are at this time at last making a profit, with the current model line up and with the addition of our new large XJ saloon in the pipeline I and many of my colleagues feel that Jaguar really is turning the corner and will turn out to be good deal for both Tata and our workforce.
say Tata to British jobs ..
Robert Peston's apparent impression of having an exclusive on this deal on ´óÏó´«Ã½ News and News24 for most of tonight hides the fact that the Tata deal has been no secret for some time.
In fact Tuesday's Daily Mail (March 25th) Letters page includes a reference by a contributor to Tata's intention to buy Jaguar.
Is this the final chapter in avenging colonialism? The Jaguar workers care little who owns their company as long as they are employed. I have real concern about this deal. Tata is known for making very inexpensive motors for the Indian roads. Their working practices would be entirely different to how we operate within the EU. I see the Jaguar plant being transferred to Mumbai bit by bit like what happened to Rover. The mighty British Lion is a lion no more but more a corgy wrapped in the arms of some octagenerian. The lions and tigers are all in the East now.
The Commonwealth turned on its head...
this is an amazing, coming out of the ages deal for an indian car manufacturer.
it will be fascinating to see how Tata manage and create synergy between both the high end market (Jaguar etc) and low end market (read Nano).
Kudos to Ratan Tata for realising this vision and putting his Company and, ofcourse, India into Global Car Map.
As an aside, with growing concern about environment and pollution, it will be interesting to see how Tata's create a growth business from this purchase.
If new models are to be designed in order to get Jaguar moving along again, who will be around to design? Ian Callum? Doubt it. 10 years at Jaguar and not a truly new and unique design? Tata will have to shop around for a new designer. Not so easy! Tata for now Ratan!
sadly governments in the UK (doesn't matter who is in power)have become obsessed with saving jobs instead of protecting heritage, promoting inovation and finding ways to be competative. The formula for success hasn't changed.We need to find ways to design for the future and manufacture cost effectivley.
For all the whining....business is business. Ford wanted to sell and the only buyers were Indian companies. Time to face the fact....Britian lost the opportunity to plunder India and has since been carried by the USA. Now the USA is in trouble and time to hang on the tails of the future ...India or China.
Tata is a good company for employees. A very progressive company. It was a pioneer in 8 hour work weeks and many other benefits for its employees when even the west had workers working 10+ hour days.
If Jaguar/Land Rover employees make this work then there is a great future market for their cars in India. Tata has a strong marketing network ....and conversely Jaguar/Land Rover can create a market for Tata in Europe and along the sale parts and design products for Tata. Lot of synergy. If employees feel this is a third world company and work against their joint success....the future is closure and unemployment ....and living a third world life in a welfare rich UK.
Isf
Perhaps the sun has finally set on the British Empire.....
There seems to be a lot of concern about British jobs here, while perhaps not without reason I would like to know what is about Tata that makes them more likely to shift production to India than Ford? They're both large corporations, they don't think in terms of nationality, they think in terms of what makes corporate sense. While there are few British owned car companies left many companies make cars here including companies like Nissan and Toyota which have no cultural links to the UK. Just because labour is cheap in India does not necessarily mean it is the perfect place to manufacture high-end cars, one must look at workforce skills and perhaps far more importantly travel costs. Shipping a fully constructed car from India to Europe is not cheap, and there isn't going to be much of a call for brand new Jags in India for a while yet....
This deal is about just one thing. Globalization. Till we get accustomed to it, we are bound to think with our coloured glasses on - colour depending on which country we are from. We need to understand that what is not good for humanity cannot be good for a country for a long time - it can't be sustained. The sooner we look at things without British, American or Indian view, better it will be. Nobody seems to be having any doubts about the correctness of what has happened. The questions raised are not logical, they're just about our national egos. We do need a Globalized mindset and not just a globalized eeconomy!
Ahh the barely veiled racism of some of these comments. How many British companies do you think have moved work overseas, to countries like India, meaning job losses here? It makes no sense for TATA to move Jag/LR production to India at present, and all the reactionaries need to think before they reach for the tired cliche of "foreigners taking our jobs".
It will be very interesting to see how Tata manage to turn around the 2 brands. They are doing very well with some of their purchases like Corus and Tetley. But Tata motors is neither financially as strong as Tata Steel or Tata Tea, nor is technologically that advance (I am leaving out Tata Sons backing though). Still the will power and passion of the group is commandable. All the best to them.
Scamp, I am proud that an Indian entity can buy an iconic UK company. I am sure in the long run, TATA will turn it into a profit making company. With their long experience in car-making, they can manufacture most parts- other the key components - in their own facilities in India.
It will be very interesting to see how Tata manage to turn around the 2 brands. They are doing very well with some of their purchases like Corus and Tetley. But Tata motors is neither financially as strong as Tata Steel or Tata Tea, nor is technologically that advance (I am leaving out Tata Sons backing though). Still the will power and passion of the group is commandable. All the best to them.
Potentially an excellent deal for both Tata and JLR workers. Eventually, the high-end models will be made in England and the low-end ones in India, or Eastern Europe. But there will be many more models and platform-sharing deals with Fiat, where Tata has a board seat and whose models Tata distributes in India. Tata consulting is the major Information Technology partner of the Ferrari F1 team...
This is once again a case of simple economics, not a colonial backlash, and certainly not a final escape from a commonwealth umbrella. India has, economically at least moved on and is truly showing presenting itself as a global player in all fields and should be encouraged, not ridiculed?? With regards concerns of quality and build do we think factories in India are under thatched roofs and guys on Bicycles powering generators - there are clear international standards which are always adhered to whether it is for the British Army or the British Mummy.
How can the Government expect the Army to rely upon 3rd world support for their fleet of vehicles?
# At 09:37 PM on 25 Mar 2008,
# Anonymous wrote
May be you should concentrate on learning basic etiquette.
This 3rd world country is what keeps your 1st world NHS & Educational institutes afloat.
Might I also go ahead & point out that 3rd world India has more Engineers & scientists with higher IQ than your 1st world England will ever have.
TO the point now, Its already been clarified that jobs wont be transferred, so chill.
I bet Mountbatten is turning in his grave right about now
Who cares? The Indian middle class have more money than sense and all that money can be taxed and that tax money can be thrown at Iraq.
TATA (Corus) - steel for TATA (Jaguar and Land Rover)? Protecting more UK jobs.
As for the cars - will Jags still be baed on Ford floorplans? Will they start glueing them together (common in India!!) to keep costs down? Will they actually design a Jag that can rival a BMW 3 series or Audi A4 for comfort, space, build quality and style?
Perhaps Lakshmi Mittal will buy Vauxhall-Opel from GM. They need the money too.
Well for those protesting about the govt and the army relying on the "third world support" for their vehicles- why not ? You have done so for all your soldiers for ages and continue to do so ( how come you still hire Gurkhas ?) so are you saying you are ok with third world people dying for your country but not ok with them making vehicles ? And the Chinese ( and the Japanese at an earlier age) were also labelled thrid world so are you advocating not buying anything from them either ?
Ford are a dinosaur of a company which are struggling at the moment. Jaguar was not succeding under their managment due to fords intervention and interferance. Land rover did well because the could not platform share, which cheapened jaguars brand. Now Jaguar are being left alone the are making great cars again ( XF & XK ).
Mr Tata should be a good owner for Jaguar. Someone who can predict the future for the car market rather than just react to it. The nano for all its bad press, will reveloutionise the third world car market and make tata lot of money. Tata already own lots of other other companys which are doing very well, and if I'm correct used to produce mercedes under licence for the asian markets.
Should be a good move !!
If I was working for Jaguar or LR I'd start looking for another job before the inevitable happens.
Just another nail in the coffin lid of British Manufacturing. OK until reality kicks in at Tata and the chips are down. Human nature tells us that when things get tough one heads back to the sactury of home. Companies are just the same and home based head office is last to go. Overseas offshoots the first.
Britain has already become an economy built on gamblers, spread betting, share trading and syndicated dodgy loan portfolios. One mans gain is another mans loss and once the music stops the system stops paying. A man with no assets relies on his next paycheck, a country with no assets relies on a mans next tax payment, until of course, the music stops.
How have we managed to decimate a country that was once a manufacturing giant and turned it into a carousel of financial gambling, a country that cannot even produce its own energy and will struggle to feed itself from a ever decreasing food producing industry.
A sad reflection on our present day politicians and industry leaders who have sold the British childrens future down the river.
R Chamberlain
Bolton
This is a sad day when our Brittish Heritage is sold out to a country not known for their motor vehicle history. It is almost certain that in time the UK Jobs will be lost to India, when this happens I urge eveyone to avoid buying a Jag or Land Rover.
Ah! The Raj comes home to roost!
This development pleases me; the growth and development of business and industry world-wide can only auger good for everyone, everywhere. Jobs will be saved, and new jobs created: the phenomenal increase of wealth in the Roman world as colonies and provinces acquired new technologies and skills demonstrates the veracity of this.
It is well to remember that scientific progress also accelerates hugely when wealth is available to fund these advances.
Protectionism fails, always. Free enterprise enriches, always.
£1bn is dirt cheap..
One ninth of the value of the bonuses given to City types last year and less than 10% of the profit made by RBS.
Congratulations to Tata Motors for getting the most prestigious brands in their kitty.
It goes on to show their global ambitions, management credibility, and Tata Leadership.
In India we have seen Tatas from birth, they are the company who have highest good will in the country, and i am not surprised that lot of people will feel patriotic fervor in their win.
Tatas has proven time and again that they are like Leadership compass. When we talk of Business Leadership the compass points to Tatas.
is their any British car manufacture left? with a British car engine ?
Jaguar and Land Rover have not been British companies for some time, so what is all the fuss about. This is an American Company selling to an Indian Industry power house after the mismanagement of the UK motoring industry during the 70's & 80's. TATA will have the cash to invest in the Brands and this will include the transition of production to India for new models I would imagine keeping existing operations safe in the medium term. The oxford ambassador is still in production in India and sells well... ;o)
While the deal ensures jobs for at least 5 years, we all have to accept that large-scale UK manufacturing will not survive in the long term. This is not necessarily a problem though - we just have to find other niches, and make sure the workforce is adequately trained. There's no point in insisting on keeping "great British iconic firms" when there is simply no way to keep them competitive. Its time to build new British icons. The people near these factories shouldn't expect jobs there for ever, and should make sure they are trained in something more longlasting. However, as I understand it, Tata is actually a very good employer, and so in the short term there's nothing to worry about.
It maybe that Tata can expand these brands in India, China and neighbours so much that they can build new factories in India without closing their UK factories (serving the EU).
The TATA empire in India is over a century old. Led by truly magnificient minds, it has been in the forefront of the Indian economy. It is also India's mosted trusted brand.Indian companies are finally being able to stand their might. The TATA's would bring about a fresh management approach not bogged down by western rigid management practices. Jaguar and Land Rover are in wonderful care with the TATA's. India already has 4 of the top 10 richest people in the World in the Forbes ranking. Very soon, we could possibly have the top well managed and valuable companies. TATA's would surely be among them.
If any country understands British Heritage as well as the British its India. India is a very proud nation and the ever growing middle classes will embrace the UK/Indian brands in their millions... Good luck to TATA. Off for a brew now of good old British Tetley...
Wow, this is a perfect deal for Tata, they get access to technology(not that it is amazing), but we can use it to develop upon. They are a loss making company, so it makes sense to sell. Now Tata can develop the brand to compete with Merc's, BMW over time.
Judging by the comments here, The british are just being welcomed to a reality where they are no longer King.
Everyone needs survival, if Jaq & land rover is not doing well as product then its an wise decision for ford to sell it off. So lets give Tata an chance...not to forget that these days Indian market is high on buying luxury products & specially International brands with foreign made.
Matthew post #21 : "Perhaps the sun has finally set on the British Empire....."
I think you will find this happened a long time ago!
" How can the government rely on 3rd world to supply their fleet of army vehicles ?"
Well indeed, one should remember that the British empire recruited not thousand, not ten thousand, but 2 million INDIAN soldiers to fight under the British crown during the world war ! It is also worth remembering that most of the wealth that the empire made,, was from this "3rd world colony " ....just a thought
The British Taxpayers give India £1 Billion a year in Aid - with a special £825 extra announced by Gordon Brown recently.
If you don't believe me, check the Department for International Developments website.
India must be laughing their socks off at us - I wonder if they will be as generous as we have been when the British aid cupboard is finally bare & we cannot support our own?
Labour and their "wealth re-distribution" really annoys the ____ out of me.
The sentiments of a British Giant being lost to supposed third world subjects is only ignorance of business practice.
With this deal, Jaguar and Land Rover have gained access to a market the size of one sixth of the world's population. Granted most of them cant afford these cars yet... but then again how many Britons can without resorting to debt?
Tata will have to prove themselves in the next five years. If they are successful I would love to see the faces of those now grumbling about the sale of Britain to former slaves.
There are very few British company's left these days, most company's in the Western world are global with no appetite for new ventures.
Global company's buy up old brand names and then send the jobs to the lowest bidder. (India,China etc)
We will not get real investment back in this country unless we are willing to work 60 hours a week and to take cuts in our wages. Oh happy day.
If they move the production to India you might as well kiss them goodbye as the main selling point of these brands are that there British built.
I just hope they use a British designer...
Actually this is very good news for Jaguar Land Rover - i have seen the numbers involved here and to correct Robert, Jaguar are in profit. Tata will recoup their investment within 12 months, so this is very good business.Ford managment in USA are in a complete mess battling with market conditions and completely the wrong product up line up. They have little experience of managing a global business and like most NA companies suffer from the quarterly reporting short-term outlook. The vast majority of Jaguar Land Rover employees could not wait to get away from Ford ownership. My own personal experience of working with both Indian and US companies - is that it is the Indian companies that understand the global and cultural aspects far far better than the USA. So good luck to them - it promises to be an exciting future - maybe perhaps we could get behind these great brands and celebrate we have companies that make world class products here in the UK for once?
Good news for Jag and land rover. Hope its not a bad news for TATA. I wish that the wild cat does not eat too much money. good things happen in worse times and situations.
TATA's can use technical know-how of JLR and manufacture economical JLR for Asia Pacific regions, already best of brands are selling in these regions and there is a tough compitition. To make the both-ends-meet would be a challange for sometime.
I think James Dyson had it right when he spoke out for British Engineering (over three years ago).
Manufacturing abroad really isn't the problem - it's the attitude to engineering in this country that needs addressing. Pretty much all of the 'staunch' British firms that we reminisce about have been taken over by people with the vision (maybe passion, enthusiasm, etc) to do something about it and who generally aren't 'local'.
Couple that with the fact that up to half of our graduating engineers migrate to the financial world and you might get the impression that there's not the brightest future for engineering in this country unless we actually do something about it.
I wish Tata the best of luck - there's a huge amount of potential in JLR but it's going to be a challenge.
This is what happens when 'bean counters' try to run companies. And countries for that matter. For global economics, read chaos. A country's ability to generate revenue (for anyhting) depends totally on its ability to export things.
Any advice for those of us who run companies that, er, make things Robert? (As the British manufacturing economy is ground to powder).
GC
Why this is a bad day ? It is bad day because one Indian company has bought British heritage company.One of the writer saying that a country that cannot have motor vehicle history has bought British heritage company’s. what’s wrong in it any one can buy any thing as long as its legal.This message for all the writer’s those opposing this iconic sale.As said these two companies cannot be shifted to India for any reason.TATA is a capable person, he can maintain these two iconic companies under his group. TATA group can maintain these kind of 101 iconic groups without any doubts.
People will buy car's by looking the quality ,reliability of the brand.Any one can maintain the same quality as long as they know how to maintain it.
Please don’t consider you guy’s as genious,we are ahead interms of every thing.
British Manufacturing Industry for sale, Chinese and Indian buyers only. Last business out please turn off the light !
I bet £100 now that within 2 years the 16,000 jobs currently "secured" will have dwindled to nothing as production moves to India. It makes economic sense.
Every day of the week I watch British manufacturing and factories move East, big companies, lots of jobs. Sad days indeed.
For all you whingers and moaners about GREAT BRITISH CULTURAL HERITAGE, what a bunch of morons, what's so great about a loss making company under AMERICAN ownership being sold to INDIAN ownership. Your great British Heritage was flushed down the pan when it was first sold to the Americans. How come u didn't cry then..
Instead of moaning, us Brits need to take a good hard look at ourselves and ask what's wrong in our society that we no longer produce homegrown entrepreneurs or people with vision or ambition.
I'm not talking about the likes of Alan Sugar or Richard Branson who are just self-publicisits who apply their branding to other people's (usually imported) products.
Brits couldn't see a future for Rover, a Chinese company can. Ford can't see a future for Jaguar/Land Rover, an Indian company can. With ambition like that they deserve to succeed!
If you look at the "British" IT industry since about the 80s, most of the companies be it PC makers, hardware supplies, recruitment etc are owned by Indian people. Our local brewer (Cains) went bust a few years ago, two Indian brothers (who previously owned a chip shop and had no brewing experience) have turned the company around big style. You have to admire their vision.
If Britain's economy is to survive and we are to have a place in the modern world, we've got to stop looking back at colonialism with rose tinted glasses, and start learning from the new masters of business - the Chinese and Indians!
To the nonsensical diatribists who crib about how "jobs" will be lost to India, apparently a Third World Country who have "more money than sense" and "Lack Quality".
1. Chinese and Indian GDP has been growing ever more than British GDP.
2. As rightly pointed out, it is our Third World Technology that keeps you "apparently" money grabbing, no quality,"what-is-service?" institutions running.
3. You lose jobs, because the Great Old British Tradition of striding forward whatever the situation, is totally absent-sadly. And that tradition has totally been transferred to us. This is what has made India today, what Britain was some time back. Try to think away from the booze for once and concentrate on working, instead of living off the state! This will make sure your jobs dont go out. Your laziness is our advantage.
To the rest - As an Indian working in the UK, i doff my hat to you, for the faith and backing.
I’m proud to say I have been an owner of both marques and have by chance just bought another Range Rover. I’m also proud of the fact that the cars are built in Britain and that I’m contributing in some way to keeping at least some manufacturing jobs in the UK after successive UK governments have presided over our demise. Being British is the very thing that makes these marques what they are; if you take that away then what are you left with! J-LR have made massive strides in improving quality in the last few years and many comments here forget that although the company is currently Ford owned, no US manufactured vehicle comes even remotely close to what these two companies produce. A perfect example is what Dodge and Chrysler are currently exporting to the UK. The XK, XF, Disco 3 and RR prove that J-LR can make desirable products for the markets and I can only hope for the sake of the employees of the company and their many UK suppliers that TATA continue to develop the companies from where they are now. I certainly hope we don’t see the brands cheapened by some Lada Niva style LR for example! If TATA allow the quality to drop back to where it came from then that will be the end for the business, especially for Jaguar. Remember not so long ago the ill fated City Rover which proved to be the final nail in the coffin for Rover.
Would I have been so willing to spend ₤50K on a RR had it been manufactured in Asia, I’m sorry to say but most likely not. Jaguar and Land Rover are British manufactured by heritage and should remain as such. In my opinion, their overall image will be affected if, in all likelihood, production in the long run moves to Asia as per the likes of Dyson etc. I hope I’m proven wrong as that will truly be a sorry day for all concerned.
I think the Brits on this forum seriously underestimate the purchasing power of middle class India. There is staggering demand on the subcontinent for luxury cars - until now supply has been limited to the lower end of the luxury range, and there certainly aren't any direct competitors to the Landrover family of cars.
Jags and Landrovers WILL be manufactured in India, simply because shipping fully assembled cars from the UK to India, which will prove to be a substantial new market for both marques, is prohibitively expensive. At the same time, production in the UK, at least for the next 5 years, will continue to supply the existing market.
High profile acquisitions such as these might just provide the momentum for a reverse brain drain back to India. As a Brit-Indian, I can't deny that the prospect of profiting from India's success is not alluring. Sure, it has a way to go before it is on par with the UK, but India can no longer be called a 3rd world country, and within my generation it will certainly be a force to be reckoned with.
....Jai Hind! :P
GARY McCARTNEY isn't right when he writes Land Rover did well under BMW. BMW made loses with LR and that's why , after, collecting enough know how in AWD vehicles the Germans got rid of LR. previously, their 4WD vehicles were bad. I know because I used to drive the 5Xi. The new BMW X's are excellent thanks to LR.
All of these comments are great but most (except one) has missed the point - NOT EVEN one company can consider itself local or British or Indian or American anymore! What every person should realize is that the market is a world market not a single country market. That means cars will be made in the UK (that is where Jaguar and Land Rover are made) and sold everywhere! That is the fact of the modern, globalized economy. The ability to communicate (internet, phone etc), cheap travel and a truly global economy is what is driving all this and not an Indian takeover or a British failure. The big mistake anyone can make is not to recognize that the world is a small place and soon will have no economic borders anymore (except for some countries who do not want anything to do with anybody).
Lets look at the facts, Jaguar is no more than a Mondeo with a different badge and higher price. No doubt in the future the manufacturing plant will move to India as to why would you produce in the UK when you have a lower cost base. Unfortunately quality is something that will suffer but then that has always been the case in low cost production countries.
Robert, would be interested to know whether this deal includes the Rover brand name? Ford recently bought this from BMW to 'protect' the Land Rover brand - and certainly despite its troubled times in recent years Rover retains a global recognition and respect that the Tata brand simply doesn't have. It would make a great deal of sense for Tata to brand its mass-market cars as Rovers in markets such as Europe and the US.
Jaguar and Land Rover both need a parent company that is willing and able to provide the long term investment in the brands.
The UK has many advatages for design and development, look at F1.
Also many foreign companies such as Honda are keen to mantain a manufacturing plant in the UK as well as in other parts of the world.
So the aquisition by Tata should be seen as a positive move for the work force both in development and manufacturing.
India is 5 years will not be so low cost, so skills and productivity will be major factors. The UK must ensure it produces a skilled na dproductive workforce for the future.
This is a very good move by Tata to take advantage of the economic boom brought about by the Govt. Policy and the skilled manpower in India. Also the tech know-how acquired all these years coupled with the new acquision will put TATA as a worldclass automaker. Congrats TATA.
There hasn't been a 'British' car company for a long time now, so stop complaining.
I hope that the jobs stay here, and that the companies will thrive under their new owners. But if the jobs go, we have to move on and create new, profitable companies in industries that have a real future. Can that be said about cars?
One problem for the new owner, is that currently Indians find it very difficult to get work permits here, due to the lack of a reciprocal arrangement in India.
Globalisation at work and surely it can't be too long before we see the inevitable correction in wages and living standards across the traditional and emerging industrial nations. The most highly skilled in both will continue to earn higher and higher salaries, the less skilled will settle to a level somewhere between curent US/ European and Asian levels and the unskilled will drop to levels similar to those in Asia now.
Get ready for big changes in the next ten years !!
My parents are both from India, and I was born in Coventry and my dad worked at the Jag in the early 1970's and has worked within the British car industry all his life. I am very happy that Jag has been sold to Tata, as I know that all the jobs will be protected and production of the cars will carry on in Solihull and Liverpool and here in the West Midlands for a long time. The main reason for my thinking is that at the moment a lot of investment has been pumped into Jaguar and Land Rover to sort out the quality and build of these cars, and I cannot see why all this work should be undone by production moving over to India. Indeed export costs from the UK to Europe are cheap as well as to the Amercian market. I doubt very much that production of these two cars will ever move to India. I also think this purchase has got nothing to do with the long dead British Empire. I think that some people should move on from the days of the Empire, India has proved itself to be a very successful industrius country and long may Jag and Land Rover prosper in the UK.
In 1975 I was a journalist covering the UK motor industry. At that time what was then British Leyland had 221,000 employees. Five years later, it was down to 84,000. Today only three entities of that empire remain, with total headcount about 24,000:
* Mini - continuing investment in product and facilities.
* LandRover and Jaguar - the best model range in 20 years and now destined for recovery in the careful hands of Tata, an organisation that has forgotten more about building business for the long term than anyone at Ford will ever know.
Manish P summed it up precisely when he wrote: "When we talk of Business Leadership the compass points to the Tatas"
Once the Tatas and the Brits understand each other, these two great marques will once again be beacons of engineering and commercial excellence worldwide.
I look forward to that day and trust it will be soon.
Tata will do well to leave the manufacturing bases in the UK and concentrate on developing the brands.
Moving the factories to India would do great damage to the image of these quintessentially English badges. Whatever springs to mind about Indian manufacturing expertise, quality engineering isn't one of them. At least, not yet.
Those 'contributors' that see this purchase as payback for the Raj etc., really need to see a therapist to tackle that low self-esteem !
It is a great move by Tata group. It is a winwin situation for UK jobs and Indian expertise. The brands will be served better by keeping the production in UK with more components going from India and future technology development detailing being done from India with active participation, help and guidance from the vetrans from UK. Luxury brands like Merc and BMW are agressively sourcing both components and tech development from India. Development cost can be substantially reduced with Indian participation. As an ex-employee of Tata group, I can vouch for their benovelent employee and social policies.
I dont know what the fuss is all about, about any british car brands left or not, I mean, its an American Company seling its brands to an Indian company. Anyways, as far as jobs are concered, for now, TATA have no plans of moving any plants to India in the next 5 years, even after that, I wouldnt be sure if they will do so since shiping cars that have been manufactured all the way to the UK will be far more expensive than the saving they will make on the cheaper labour, another point to consider is that Indian wages are rising at 15% every year, one can calculate how much increase they can have in 5 years. So I think worrying about British jobs moving to India or no British brand left is pointless. Moreover, India is probably the only country which most understands British heritage and british standards, I am sure a company like TATA will do its best to maintain the quality of the brands, they previously have done that with Corus and Tetley.
Tata Motors is comparitively a new car maker but TATA is a more than 100 years old company and the same family runs all its businessess, they have made it really big in the Indian car market, which is huge by the way, in just over a decade......but it will still be very interesting to see how they turn things around, if they do so, how they maintain the brand image, how much they can afford on research and development of new models etc.....only time will tell!!
Svaritra - Glasgow
TATA brought landrover for indianarmy.indian army is looking for good allterain vehicles for a long time.tata is going get that $2.3billon in one order from indian army.
re post 30...I can't even see us beating India at cricket again for some time...it's all going downhill in UK lol
"How can the Government expect the Army to rely upon 3rd world support for their fleet of vehicles?"
Most of them will get used in support of our operations in the 3rd world, so it seems kind of fitting they should get some benefit from it. perhaps we should extend this further, perhaps getting the arabic oil-producing states to sponsor our tank and aircraft fuel?
Things change and go full circle over time. Ford tried to make Jaguar so much a part of Ford that it lost a lot of its uniqueness especially with the X Type. Ford also tried to make Jaguar a "major" builder of cars i.e. over 200,000 a year. It tried to do it at too fast a pace, and made the mistake of making the "new models" look like 1960's ones. It succeeded to a point with the S Type, but should have gone modern with the X Type and XJ. It laso spent too much money on some things like th eFormula One team and not enough on others.
All in all it tried to do its best for Jaguar and later Land Rover, but never understood what Jaguar is all about and that it takes decades to change a company like Jaguar in the mind of the public.
Tata have shown consistently over the years they are no mugs when it comes to business. If any one can make the Jaguar/Land Rover businesses a success in the UK they can! Undeed the man that will be the "Boss" of the Jaguar Land Rover bosses finishedd his education at Aaton University, therefore knows the Midlands fairly well!
Yes, indeed it does me proud but also makes me scratch my head, considering the clunkers that carry the name Ford.
In certain parts of the world, Ford stands for "Fix Or Repair Daily"!!!!
Did TaTa really need this around his neck, I wonder. And as for Jaguar ...well hasn't it had its day?
Doesn't the luxury motor market run on perfectionist Lexus' and streamlined mercs/beemers.
I think other Hindus like myself will agree that the nation could have certainly put Mr. TaTa's US$ 2.5 billion to better uses ... perhaps into improving roads, municipal services, electrical plants, waterworks...???
Tata is a $70 billion group of companies and is domestic to India as is curry.
I don't know what Tata will do for Jaguar, but for Land rover they are currently entering India's ever growing defence sector, and to be able to supply the army with the worlds best off road mode of transport is a great coup.
I don't think Tata will outsource the UK based operations but will transfer the knowhow and increase the assembly to satisfy the third world supply chain.
For the people not in the know, Jag and LR haven't been British for over a decade now - it's been American; before that it was German! The brands may have started off as British names.
Some people seem to have the hump over the 'British icons' being owned by a old colonial possession! Over much of world history India was the (peaceful) economic super power accounting for some 20% of world trade; India just going back to it's pre-British Empire position. Read the BRICs report by Goldman Sachs.
Tata also own British Steel (and Tetley Tea). Maybe Tata will supply steel on the cheap to the Jag and LR plants!
Tata Consultancy Services provide the IT and software for the F1 Ferrari team. May be that knowledge can be applied to Jag and LR!!!!!
We used to joke about Toyota cars and now they make some of the best cars - from cheap to premium brands (Lexus).
Tata makes cheap cars, trucks, buses etc just like Toyota.
Tata may be the next Toyota. All-in-all, it seems like a natural progression for Tata but they'll have a tough job of making the work-shy British workforce to do some quality work! After Layland, British car making has a bad reputation in the world.
Right, I'm off for a cuppa before I do some work this afternoon!
what a load of fuss,a mixture of racism, bitterness and pure spite. Look to the future , for the time being our jobs are secured, we might even learn something from this highly respected company !! the only way to think now is global, the raj is long gone, and good riddance, good luck to tata.
Wake up you ignorant Bri'ish commentators "Scamp", and the shameless "anonymous" who is ashamed of revealing his name (oaf!)! If India was a third world country then it wouldnt be owning a good no of British companies, handling its call centers and contributing so much to its IT & Engineering sector. Duffer there are more educated people with standards of life far more better than yours. Truth is always bitter. Tata is very much capable of owning the Jag and Landrover.... for all others who say time will tell.....Tata bought Tetley and Corus and you can see the success it has in these two...automobiles....nano being the cheapest...we Indians will see how foreigners will be rushing to buy these once exports to your countries take place...
There is nothing wrong when TATA buying the prestigious British bands. The fact here is the inevitability of global competitiveness, NOT the question of 1st World or 3rd World or East or West. Historically speaking, there isn't such thing exist at the ground realities. I don’t even see the British get along well with German, French for that matter.
Well, It's the question of ability and utilizing the opportunity on time,like the British did during the Empire days plundering India's manufactured and economic base that also had ruined millions of peoples lives during 19th & early 20th centuries in India. If Britain's economy still remains sustaining even nowadays is thanks to those hundreds £ billions of plunder through colonial exploitation & appropriation of wealth & surplus during Empire days.
Now India is moving ahead of those gone days of the Raj and better economics has been operantly on the global table as days going on. TATA's move is one of such example towards achieving a position within the global scenario.
I laughed about someone suggesting that we stop buying Jags/LRs because Tata would transfer production to India!! With logic like that ..well I give up!
Let's get real. In the end if Jag/LR's engineers and managers do a good job Tata will have no reason to move, and the UK R&D organisations will be strenthened as Tata recognises they will learn more from the UK - than UK from India.
In the long run, i think this would be best deal for Jaguar and Land Rover employees, Tata would use its brightest mind to expand the market for these cars in both developed and developing world.
And workers here in UK need not to worry as TATA is one of the most respected companies in India for their welfare and charitable works...which they apply wherever they go..
and if the Indian companies are investing here so much in a market whose population is not even 1/19th of India, then perhaps there is a lesson for British companies that they need to serious look toward India as their next big market like they did when they came here 350 years ago......(only in a civilised manner this time....
As an employee at Jaguar / Landrover I welcome the new owners. the future as I see it is bright. And for all the people here reading the last rights for my company, PLEASE feel free to post your apologies when in 5 years time the Jaguar and Landrover are in profit, and still in the UK. At last our furure is in our hands !!
The Jaguar plant at Halewood (which I've walked round) was built just a few years ago and I think it cost about a billion pounds (certainly looked like it). I doubt Tata are going to rip it apart and move it to India for quite some time. I don't know the ins and outs of economics of the car manufacturing business, it would be interesting to hear them explained.
what's all the fuss about? TATA's are one of the most admired and respected indian conglomerate. They have a big heart. They create jobs. They don't close off shops just like it happens in the west.
TATA's value innovation & research. I am sure they will pump in money to further the existing technologies at Ro & Jag serving the dual purpose at home & abroad.
People with white/colonist mind have to understand the world order. Think unique & stop thinking the way your dads used to. Would you have created such a fuss had an australian firm would have taken over Ro&Jag? Probably not! Tata's wouldn't have won the bid had they not been financially sound. With this takeover they have demonstrated their sound business minds in risk taking ability and foresight.
Like many, I believe this would create more jobs in england and such places while countries like India grows.
The rulers of the British Raj must be turning in their graves.Icons like "Jaguar" and "Land Rover" going into the hands of the "ruled".
But the world turns around and the boot is on the other foot.
Tata too will have a tough time marketing the product as the Indian car industry does not have much of a reputation abroad.But in India sales will sure flourish
The public will have the final say. If sales and the second hand prices fall sharply, we will know that the historical loyal market has walked away. I think they might!
At 09:37 AM on 26 Mar 2008, MJH Cheltenham wrote:
Off for a brew now of good old British Tetley...
Mr MJH isn't Tetley now owned by Tata? I think you'll find such is the case.
Anyway, thanks for your comment. I agree: the two countries share a lot in common, including bureaucracy, corruption and an inflated sense of pride.
A great opportunity for TATA to show what can be done with effective management and investment. I wish them luck - it will not be easy to sell uneconomic vehicles in todays austere climate.
I think the TATA deal is very good for everybody. Afterall, its a dependable company and TATA is a very trustworthy employer. It is for sure they will not ''loot'' this country as...
I don't think you get it! Tata is on the way to full global dominance in the vehicle industry. Thats the hundred year plan as I see it. Jobs ensured or lost in the next five years are of no consequence to the company when it's got it's targets set on the next fifty years.
What a better way to grow than to enter every big country in the world with some kind of business or the other. Tata has now got operations running in eighty countries. Its just the money my dear fellows! And Tata has got a very keen nose for the moolah.
Even then, I think that this isn't that bad because among other companies in India this is one company that gives back a huge deal to society. Research, education, social uplift... What is it that they don't do. Probably this is why they're a lot more respected in India than the Ambani brothers or Mittal who might among the top ten richest people on earth but are seen more as cold blooded, predatory business types. I believe this could be a reason Tata is not in the top ten list! :-)
Imagine Ferrari production moving from Italy to China, if Fiat (Ferrari`s current owners) were to sell the iconic Italian brand to Nanjing Automotive of China, say? It just wouldn`t happen. Likewise Tata must appreciate the heritage of Jaguar and Land-Rover, and maintain production in the UK. British, Japanese, American and European buyers all appreciate Jag and L-R`s history, and the Britishness is one of the selling points, and a Jag or Land Rover made in India would not appeal to the vast majority of buyers. So Tata, please leave production at Castle Bromwich, Solihull and Halewood.
Another milestone by Indian company. Western business model of greed is failing and indian business model of ethical business is prospering.
so an Indian company known for making cheap garbage now owns two iconic British, luxury & high-end car manufacturers. Can Indians now stop complaining about the "theft" of the Koh-I-Noor diamond etc etc?
I think any early predictions of English downfall and Indian victory are misplaced. This is not a cricket game with losers and winners. Even if some manufacturing transfers to India (which is unlikely), it will eventually have to deal with the same issues of rising costs due to regulations, employee rights etc that any UK-based firm does. And if there is a better deal to be made then, rest assured that it will be, regardless of any national interests prevailing at that time.
Interesting comments. Here are my views, as I work in IT. Tata took over a place where I worked, the support moving to India had nothing to do with Tata wanting that, more so with the company want to get things cheap - without regard to quality. Considering the workers from Tata were just a little more than concerned about how cheap the company wanted to be was quite interesting. Also, Tata gave us our first increases in pay, when the company we worked for froze any pay increases, but happily increased upper management. Tata did treat there workers and subcontractors well, so I would really have nothing against them. As far as the car industry .... here in America - Toyota, Honda, and I believe Volkswagon are starting to employ more Americans than the actual American car companies because they want the quality cars built here. They are also paying fairly well. Tata is a very smart company, so I can see them looking at the UK, etc as a place for high quality manufacturing, and to avoid high shipping costs from India. You may end up seeing Tata taking the same route in the UK as Toyota and Honda in the US. You never know what route a Country or company can go, so do judge when there is a possibility it may actually benefit you in some form. In other words wait and see what happens before you get stressed about it.
If Britain was doing such a good job of running the companies in the first place, why was Land Rover sold to the Germans, and then both Jaguar and Land Rover sold to the Americans?
OK, so we like to think that both Jaguar and L/R would be better if they were owned by British companies. So, where were these British companies when Ford put Jaguar and L/R on the market?
British companies have neither the money nor the desire to invest due to the lack of investment, encouragement, etc of past and current British governments.
Britain is no longer a "world leader" in large-scale engineering or manufacturing. If TATA can do it, then good luck to them. Do you think that Jaguar and L/R had much of a future without them? Ford didn't have the money to invest or they wouldn't have put them up for sale in the first place.
First of all let me clear that India is no longer 3rd world country. Let me clear UK and USA are at this position because some of talented indian brains. UK has got very little potential to expand its business in the area such engineering as we are discussing about motor sector UK neither manufacture own things coz various reasons such as high labour cost and most of the economy is focused only on financial sector. on the other hand India is constantly progressing in all areas. Ford have that vision to sell its brand to whom and TATA group is eligible to handle this responsibility. dont worry about job cuttings and things ,
I have read many of these comments about the Tata aquisition of JLR. Alot I see borders on racisim. And many of these views are linked to Britains high opinion of itself because of our past huge British Empire. Im 33 and i have a huge respect and gratitude to all those who fought for my country ( UK ) in the past. However - i feel that we must move on from this past, and stop using it to judge the future. We once the top of the world, but its time to face it - China & India are about to change that. I think TATA will do something great with these 2 brands. They have the ambition to be great as we once did - so therefore they are thriving on the adrenalin to achieve ! Good luck to them I say ! If this country - kept on investing and developing and looking forward instead of wollowing in the hype over the past when we were all Great - then this would never have happened would it ? this country is to busy living in the past and whining and moaning about everyone else in the world, - just get on with it !
I hope Tata give Jaguar the freedom Ford wouldn't. Ford stopped them making estate cars because of affecting Volvo (Ford owned)sales. It stopped them making 4x4's because of affecting Land Rover sales. How can they sell more cars if they are handcuffed to a few body styles ??!!
With regard to quality, I have owned 7 Jaguars and unlike other German and Swiss cars I've driven have had no faults on any of the Jaguars. My current X-Type 2.2 diesel saloon is fantastic compared to our Volvo XC90 which has had numerous faults and cost twice as much as the Jaguar. Pity the British don't support their car industry like the French and Germans do. Long live Jaguar.
it's not about the Pommies loosing their jobs or the good ole patriotism, it's about pure economics. Historically Indians have been close to the British in spite of years of colonialism. It's time Pommies realise the intelligence of the Indian mind. An Indian, if given the same circumstances will perform well as anyone else. An Indian also believes in fair play. So give it a try and see how it goes. Don't worry these Iconic brands are in good hands.
Unfortunately, Great Britain lost its last indigenously owned volume car manufacturer (Rover Group) a couple of years ago. Seeing Jaguar and Land Rover change hands from one foreign corporation to another does not upset me. Jaguar was de-listed from the London stock exchange in 89 after Ford started a share buying spree.
BMW's divestment of Land Rover was too good an opportunity for Ford to miss. They had long coveted the brand and indeed made an unsuccessful attempt to buy it from British Leyland in the late 70's or early 80's.
By selling J/LR, Ford presented TATA with numerous gifts; two well equipped companies with new products (the Jag XF for example) about to enter the marketplace ready to earn profits for the new owners by the end of the year. (reminds me of the AMF disposal of Harley Davidson)
TATA also gains access to cutting edge technology which would have taken them years to develop themselves at considerably more expense, along with a global distribution network and seasoned executives; all for a bargain price. Jaguar/Land Rover also gain access to a huge corps of engineers at Tata.
Will production eventually shift to India? Of course. Ford almost manufactured the Jaguar X-Type at a Mazda plant in Japan. I am in no doubt that assuming TATA has the stomach to handle the red ink for the next few years, more and more production will move from Britain as their supply agreements made with Ford expire. Its by no means unrealistic to see Indian plants undertake more of the main manufacturng and assembly of cars, with the finish work completed in the UK. You will see Tata execs rotated in and out of JLR in the UK and particularly the United States(just as Ford did with the likes of Sir Nick Scheele)
Its not going to be an easy ride for TATA, they have perception issues that Jaguar and Land Rovers brands will be diminished because of their new owners who also happen to build the worlds cheapest car. They will need to prove that the increase in qualiy of J/LR products is sustainable and will continue. They also need to pay for this purchase (plans are afoot by TATA Motors to raise some $4 Billion some of which will cover this purchase)
North American Jaguar dealers were dead set against Tata taking over and saught assurances from their management that TATA wont allow the upscale image of both brands to be tarnished.
All in all, a huge result for TATA, a fair one for UK workers at J/LR (for the time being, lets review in 5 years) and for Ford it marks a very poor and sad end to a chapter in their history which they hope will be quickly forgotten.
There'something about Tata that tells me it is not "just" business but something more. It all started with Tetley, then Brunner Mond Group, INCAT International, Pearl Group, Corus and now the JLR - all big time British brands being targetted by an Indian conglomerate. Somehow I dont feel these are decisions driven by pure business interest. There has to be something more.
The only appropriate term that comes in my mind is reverse colonialism.
What the East India Company (a british company for those dont know the history) did to India, Tata is doing that to the Great Britain.
Long live the empire (!!!!).
Its intertesting to see the western countries being defeated in their own game. It was "Great" Britain and US that forced India and China to open their economies so that they can go there, sell their so called high quality products, destroy local economies and make some more money. However, they are crying foul when the tables have turned. Its funny to see people's comments about sun and British Empire, the so called British Empire was destroyed by Nazis and Gandhi about 70 years back. Wake up!!
Re post 33
The glueing of cars together.
What do you think most aeroplanes wings are now held on to the fuselage by?
Staples? Nails? Welding?
Some of the other comments really make me wonder what the hell people know about any given subject.
Look at the history of Jaguar, once proud, virtually killed by strikes, bought by Americans, make a loss, sold to Indians.
Rovers history is pretty much the same and when the Brits bought it, they really did a number on it and it went down the pan.
By the way, it's not personal, just business.
almost half of america live on indian service industries, now give them a chance to show their potential in manufacturing in the U.K. and see how one can lead low cost life in an expensive first world. and i think this deal does not mean everything has to go back to where it has come from.
Ford misunderstood what made a Jaguar a Jaguar, making a car that is effectively a re-badged Ford. As for Land Rover, Ford (and BMW) completely failed to exploit the brand's pedigree to re-take the third world markets worth many, many millions buy constantly pushing up-market and producing vehicles with more and more toys and less and less off-road ability, alienating loyal brand users like myself. Tata are far more likely to produce a replacement for my 15 year old Defender that Ford ever were. Two immobile Defender Td5's stuck, unused, in the Sahara due to TestBook not being available says it all.
what is the wrong to move the production to india.in india labour cost is cheap so they serve good quality product with reasonable cost. its good for consumer
To those who are predicting that Tata will move production to India in the near to somewhat near-term, I can only shake my head.
Who would buy a Jag made in India?? Come on. This has nothing to do with racism or globalization. Jags are purchased for two reasons and two reasons only: status and heritage. Indian auto manufacturing offers neither, especially when dealing with a brand as British as Jaguar.
So, they'll have to keep production in the UK to survive...which is good.
Let me say, it is a fantastic deal. Critics lament on possible job losses and pathetic condition of these British icons if deal is not done, and at the same time, venture to demean TATA, a global conglomerate, which can really pump-in cold cash and revive them. Guys, no matter it is an Indian company, they got the nerve.
The emotions are running high in some quarters, but then buying and owning a car always had to do with emotions. The good news therefore is that the chances of owning and "caring for" a British made car are increasing. That includes not only Britishers but more than a few of the 400 million EU citizens. A German car, however good, does not reach everybody or meet everybody's expectations.
So, three cheers for Tata and the Commonwealth connection!
First, as a Brit living in the US, I'm sad to see Ford so desperate they're selling the familly jewels. Second these are icons of the UK WHY isn't the UK buying them back? Oh too busy buying French nuke stations - my mistake sorry.
30. At 07:00 AM on 26 Mar 2008, Rohit wrote:
How can the Government expect the Army to rely upon 3rd world support for their fleet of vehicles?
# At 09:37 PM on 25 Mar 2008,
# Anonymous wrote
May be you should concentrate on learning basic etiquette.
This 3rd world country is what keeps your 1st world NHS & Educational institutes afloat.
Might I also go ahead & point out that 3rd world India has more Engineers & scientists with higher IQ than your 1st world England will ever have.
TO the point now, Its already been clarified that jobs wont be transferred, so chill.
Mr Anonymous,
Please can clarify where you get your statistics from.
Having worked in more then one so called third world country myself as an Engineer in the Oil and Gas Industry I have generally found that Engineers from the Indian continent are not usually of the same calibre as they European counterparts and in some cases have presented qualifications from university's that do not exist.
i think in this era of globalization does anyone know who is the employer and who is the employee.citigroup has huge investments all over the world and they control some of dubai ,recently dubai holdings bought a 5 % stake in citigroup so technically they own thmselves in middle east.this is the realty who has money can buy anything, and why not.somebody has earned money due to his enterprise and hard work.if jaguar can be owned by ford why not tatas .do we realize india invests more in uk than uk in india so we get more jobs due to india than indians get due to us.also evey company wants profits ,so if jaguar and land rover will make profits tata will be really stupid to shift production and compromise this.if we are compititive we will be there as a brand even after 100 years if not then we dont deserve to be there anyways.
Tata and Jag and Land Rover,
something real brit will not like to see together. Even americans will have problem in seeing these brands together.
But this shows Asian and Indian power houses are now eyeing best in the businesses. It wont be too long to see our decline in providing the best and possesing the best in Industry. For your kind information India still produces world class cars there are Ford cars made in India, Hyundai cars made in India, BMW and Merc have there share in indian plants. And also Chervolet is there as well.
I wont be surprised to see Jag and Land Rover making good profits in west bec of having access to engineering and enterprenaurial skills in Indian subcontinent.
This marks the continuation of eastern muscle/brain power in western economies.
TATA is a good company in a growing a dynamic country. Can't really do any worse than the American Company has done over the past few years.
another point:
India already has 4 of the top 10 richest people in the World in the Forbes ranking
This confuses me a great deal. Why does the British tax payer still pump 100 millions of pounds of aid into India to help the large number of poor people there. If the country is so rich and dynamic (as it is getting day-by-day). Shouldn't the India people just say NO to all this free money. It must be a tad embarrassing for a foreign government to have to feed your people and a not small part of the Indian population living on hand outs.
India stand up and say NO! to all this. Please can you do this so I do not have to be taxed so much.
TATA a company started by a great visionary Jamsetji TATA now led by another great visionary Ratan TATA. The deal has ceratinly no short term goals. Jaguar is in loss right now, but the vision is not only to make profit from it but also to expand the business to growing economies. TATA's are not nuts that they will invest in a loss making business. The Vision is very clear and it has long term goals. They have entered the UK market and they will make Jaguars for growing markets like India, China , Brazil etc. The middle class of India is getting richer and richer and wants to own a Jaguar (not imported).But this will tke some time and I am sure no jobs will go to offshore in recent years as TATA are one of the best employers and they want to retain the knowledge base in UK. I can see clearly UK workfoce working with Indian workforce together to cut the cost, make efficient and high end vehicle which is affordable both in UK and in emerging economies.
Kudos to the Deal.
I had been an avid reader from childhood & I used to wonder why the English stories & Nursery rhymes(which had mostly British background) were filled with gory & avenge and reference to wily Step Mother’s and suffering young daughters’ of a Timid Father . In contrast, Indian stories & rhymes were more about life & its beauty and value. The discussions, I read here, represent crowd who read those stories and relive on their past. Well, one should grow up and distinguish right & wrong!! Dont be of Coloniastic mind.. It's past & World has moved on..!!!
Why is this hue and cry from people from the so called 1st world.Just get some stats straight the points clarified :
1. Tata took over corus.
Employees:30000,After take over Pink Slips : 0.Tetley : unkown employess but not heard of any people reciving pink slips.
2.Tata doesnt want to chuck people out.They want their mark in the global car manufacturing arena.They surely know JLR have a standard and thats the USPs for these products.They wont hamper these.
3.Tata assembled cars for Merc,worked for high tech components for porche and vw.They are into vehicle manufact business and know the business.
4.Tata employs nearly 300000 people all around the world.And i have never heard a news stating they have kicked out people for profit.
5.Its a growing enterprize and It has never gone into a loss making venture.
Indians b proud,JLR employees b proud and rest assured about ur jobs,world keep on watching and for a very few racist,snouty people who brag abt first world, a suggestion :
Stop wearing clothes,stop talking to a customer care,stop using softwares and hard wares for computers,stop using steal stop drinking tea etc etc...as everything is now made in 3rd world by 3rd world people.u dont have a right to live in this world wnr evry1 equal.Die man die.....
In general, making cars is a bad business to be in. Globaly, only Toyota and Porsche can claim to have decent businesses by any objective measure. Nationalist sentiments worldwide will ensure that excessive capacity in the industry is maintained or even increased - so things won't get any easier. To still have a substantial car industry (which the UK has), in foreign ownership (so not wasting UK capital on investment in a moribund industry) strikes me as a neat trick to have pulled off.
Globalisation has been there directly or indirectly since time immemorial if one’s to believe in the Out-of-Africa theory. Tiny independent states get sucked into a bigger entity some time or the other, and further into regional blocs and perhaps back to a virtual Pangaea in the decades to come.
Remember, fear of the unknown is only in our minds, and once we get over that there is no issue in the first place!
The current trend towards international mergers, acquisitions and joint ventures is resulting in organisations not only having to deal with the merger of different corporate cultures, but also of two or more national cultures. While Tata will be more familiar with British business culture following the recent acquisition of steel producer Corus, it will need to work hard to understand Jaguar and Land Rover’s unique motoring heritage and business culture.
Jaguar and Land Rover, previously owned by US car manufacturer Ford for the last twenty years, will be very familiar with North American management and business practices so the change to Indian ownership will be an interesting challenge for management and production staff alike. With estimates suggesting that as many as 80% of international mergers and acquisitions fail, Tata will need to take extreme care and consideration to ensure that they fully understand the national and corporate cultures of the companies they have bought into.
Key to their success will be the ability to maintain clear and open channels of communication with all Jaguar and Land Rover employees. Information is the lifeblood of any organisation and the way in which it is communicated can make the difference between a productive and committed workforce and one that is sceptical and unreceptive. Tata, Jaguar and Land Rover senior management teams must communicate accurate information transparently, explicitly and as quickly as possible. Information must then be cascaded down throughout the entire business in order to effectively convey the key messages to all parts of the business. While rapid and efficient communication should help to ease feelings of doubt and insecurity, managers should understand that employees need time to digest and understand the impact of the acquisition and gain a clearer understanding of the business objectives moving forward.
All parties involved also need to recognise the importance of understanding the underlying values and attitudes of each culture. To put it simply, they need to understand the other culture’s perception of ‘how we do things’: this will include differences in factors such as levels of formality, tolerance of risk and methods of decision making. Different perceptions of time may also be a particular challenge for Jaguar/Land Rover and Tata. Before business is even discussed, Indians will typically take much more time than Brits to meet the employees at all levels and develop relationships. This could conflict with the approach taken by the Brits who often expect things to be done more quickly right from the start.
Jaguar/Land Rover and Tata should also take careful steps to ensure that the human element of the acquisition is not ignored. It is the employee who will have the greatest impact on the successful outcome of this acquisition. Carefully selecting respected leaders in the organisation to help carry out and communicate the necessary changes to other employees will help ensure they feel cared for. Without taking the time to fully understand the effect that a changing organisational culture can have on employees as well as the challenges of bringing together national cultures, companies are risking all.
The Tata Group is a unique company dating back to 1868. It has often been seen to value its employees as much as it values profit and prides itself on equality and fair management which can only be seen as positive attributes for Jaguar and Land Rover. Mr. Tata has a passion for innovation with the most recent example being the launch of India’s own Volkswagen - People’s Car – the Nano - costing just $2,500 which has opened up car ownership to millions of Indians, proving that Mr. Tata and his empire is out to make a difference.
The writing is on the wall, Britain will soon be a third world power - if we are not all ready?
I've been a Jag driver now for 5 years, started with an X-type, which was a good car, now have an XK.
I'm happy that Tata has acquired JLR. The private equity alternatives would have been far worse. Jaguar probably would have been immediately closed and the brand assets sold on. Tata has a tough job ahead, but I believe it is committed to JLR for the long haul.
It disappoints me reading all the ignorant comments about jobs going to India, the empire having fallen, etc.
Yes, some manufacturing may move to India, which will be necessary if JLR is to compete and survive. But the UK base would still be maintained.
The alterative is that JLR will disappear forever and all the jobs will be lost. Perhaps people don't understand this.
This may prove to be one acquisition too many for Tatas. They are not known for servicing consumers. (I know as I have been a subcriber to Tata Telecom for 3 years). By buying Jag and LR they are pledging to serve some of the most demanding consumers. This is something they may feel they can manage. After all they own and operate Taj, the luxury hotel chain. But a Jag buyer will surely demand more than a six footer, portly, turbaned gentleman bowing to open the door for him.
hmm tata, lr, jag in one kitty sounds exciting . a free market and loss making icons and sensible man will understand the eventualities, tata does not interfere with style of working, it works on improving it. jag and lr have big research n sales bases world over which tata will use for it own products too. then it will use jag n lr to give stiff competetion to the likes of audi, bmw, mercedes, porsche , ferrari and bentley in the niche luxury india segement. now this creates sales n money for lr n jag, now manufacturing, various part of any car are more composition based like engine moulds etc so anything which is not a high tech product will be out sourced to corus or tata steel.
so it just money saving and making making all the way
i see jag in sum profit of abt 500million pounds in 2010.
i smell a new flavour of international car scenario
I think this is a fantastic happenig and it makes all sense - a) economic sense as uncertainity is over and JLR can now look towards deep pockets for R & D and increase in profitability, not just on one brand but both b) social security sense as jobs are secured and pensions assured c) and as for the heritage security I fully agree with aptly quoted comments of MJH Cheltenham - If any country understands British heritage as well as the British it is India. I came to Britain 5 years back and within days felt absolutely at home - every place had a stroy, every story had a feeling and every feeling made one proud. Same as culture and heritage pride of India.
We have to also understand the culture Tata has inculcated in all its companies since foundation - not just profitability but deep sense of social responsibility. If you have seen the launch of Tata Nano and heard the speech by Ratan Tata where he says 'A promise is a promise' - one feels surprisingly stunned that this corporation, while rightly focussed on growth, is governed by leadership which believes in social responsibility as well.
In response to number 13 above ....please say TA........TA (Thanks!! not bye bye!!)....as TATA is a saviour of British jobs!!
Wow!
Some of the comments above have washed away some of the respect I have for Brits.. Wakey wakey people.. It's not a colonial India any more.. from where you can loot trillions of dollars to run your economy and R&D. You need to get off your *** and work which is what do Indians do.
Now talking abt the subject.. TATA isnt no fool; he has invested billions cuz besides technology he would get the channel to distribute his own product and have a bet that he would not move even a single job out of Britain because he doesnt think the way any Tom, Dick and Harry would.
I think ford agreed to sell Land Rover because TATA was ready to buy Jag. Here in Australia we used to have big v8 and v12 supercharged cars, but past few years there is a real decline on purchase of big cars.Buying Jag at this stone age wont be a profitable business unless they TATA plans to poduce smaller Jag's.
Some of the comments posted is bit silly in the sense that few were very upset because an Indian company brought JAG. when you make comments like that please also think about what happened 50 - 100 years ago when British East India company came to India and robbed cotton,steel,wood and peoples life. In 2008 we atleast paid you for what we took from you and promised to keep company there and employ british citizens. Can you ever think of a fairer deal than this?
As an owner of two different Jaguar models, I'm continually amazed in how poorly Jaguar has marketed their products. After driving numerous variety of cars, (I'm in the car [non Jaguar] business), I truly find the Jaguar a good solid and reasonable priced luxury car. People still have the impression the cars are unreliable, not true for the majority of owners. They are expensive to run, also not true except the premium gas requirement. I typically achieve highway 24 to 28 MPG with both being the 4.0 V8. The sedan market is over crowded with many choices but my Jaguar experience has been very positive. I don't like a lot of gadgets to distract me while driving and perhaps that is where the luxury market has pursued in a series of one up-man-ship. I think for many the multi-hundred horsepower cars are a thing of the past as gasoline prices continue to climb. This may prove the most difficult part for Tata to enjoy profits in an increasingly diminishing luxury car market.
being a bridgend engine plant worker the tata deal is of huge significance to the workforce .i see fords relinquishing their contact in the large engine market slowly but surely,bridgend in 4 years or more will need to rely on tata's continued demand, but long term it must diversify to other economical projects given the global outlook on oil.
jaguar,landrover,bridgend or any other british plant will never compete economically with lower paid countries,we have all become accustomed to the benefits of cheap products manufactured somewhere in asia to the detriment of british manufacturing ,lets hope for tata's sake they can afford jags and the like in new delhi,even if they end up being made there.
The general consensus seems to be that Tata will be dependant on customers in Britain and a few other first world countries for selling Jaguar's and Land Rover's.If Indians can afford to buy European or American companies they can afford to buy the cars too!In a few years the main market for luxury cars may have shifted to India and China,while lots of first worlders ride their Nano's.Who knows?By the time the sub prime juggernaut finally halts many more iconic companies would have changed hands!