大象传媒

I think many developers are starting to realise that Apple have absolute control over the App Store. So you may spend allot of time, effort and money developing an app, that many people may want, BUT if Apple decide it breaks T&C or seems to be a competitor of their services - its out (look at Google Voice).

I cannot see it being long before the authorities pulls Apple up on this questionable behaviour. Its anti competitive in my opinion, and stifles development.

However Google, with Android, have taken a different approach. Make everything completely open. The developers know where they are, and market forces decide which apps succeed. Many apps will fail - but it will not be the head of a big company that decides this. Google will still make money, they always do, through advertising and taking a cut of any app sales.

The Google approach some how seems much fairer, don't you think?

Some of the rules for the Apple store seam a bit petty to be honest, such as the app mentioned in the article. Also, we hear stories of overnight millionaires on the app store, but as a % of apps sold, how many actually make this sort of wealth? Making $6,200 in a month from advertising is pretty good, especially when he probably isn't needing to do much work maintaining the app. Just revising it for updates.

I agree, in part, with the main topic of the article. Personally, I think that the Android market and Apple app store will both continue to make money for people, in the same way that any other shop/product would. Some of the apps I have on my HTC Legend wouldn't make it through the Apple approval stage, such as my file explorer and my seperate e-mail client. I also would not be able to use my GBA emulator as I would not be allowed to load ROMs onto an iPhone. Widgets are another part of the Android experience that Apple don't have, and some of the apps I have are brilliant, purely because of the widgets, such as my to-do list on the home screen.

Being able to install apps from 3rd party locations is also useful, but I only have one app that isn't from the Android Market at the moment. Still, if anyone has any recomendations, do tell.

While there will always be success stories (I'm sure people have made money on Windows Mobile before now...somewhere) the difference is much wider than you would appear to make out.

This article seems to suggest that the difference in App stores between Apple and Google is in the number of handsets that can use them. Whilst this is true to an extent, it's worth noting that that's only a level playing field where the Android and Apple stores operate on the same basis.

With this in mind, it needs to be understood that not only is the total number of countries where the Apple App store is available more than double the number of Android Markeplace, there is a further striking difference in that less than 1/3 of countries where Marketplace is available have the ability to charge for Apps. Currently only 13 countries are able to monetize app downloads, compared to 90+ for Apple.

This causes problems for developers who need to maintain multiple versions of their apps in order to be able to try to make money in different markets. Paid apps in the lucky few countries, and add-supported ones in the ones where they can't sell direct.

Of course any suggestion that this inconsistent approach is largely down to Googles desire to earn money from Ad placement is surely mere co-incidence ;)

There is a broader aspect to this story in that Apple is starting to lose its appeal as a brand because of its bullying tactics and pursuit of profit and dominance at the expense of customer satisfaction. In effect, it risks becoming the new Microsoft.
At the moment many people buy some products because they are from Apple, whereas some years ago, Mozilla's Firefox became successful mainly because it was not from Microsoft. It is a dangerous direction to head towards for a company whose success is so much based on brand loyalty.

Does no one else think it ironic that this "stella" example of programming success on the Android phone is from an app that is completely unnecessary on any iOS device? The figures aren't all that fantastic either. There are certainly far better success stories on the iPhone than this and yet a program whose job is purely to kill other programs because of either coding errors or memory leaks is earning "big bucks".

Next we'll have a top earning anti-virus software app and then maybe people might get where this is going. The interested parties that are scrabbling over each other to release Android handsets by giving them away with buy one get one free offers will attempt to monatize the platform by pre-installing apps you can't remove or do deals with certain app providers so if you don't use a particular carrier then you won't be able to use the app (Skype and Verizon have already tied this up in the US for example)

There has been a lot of excited wishful thinking from the Android fans recently of their massive growth success of their platform but the problem is that most Android supporters will pay little or nothing for apps. If you want to make the real money you need to develop for the platform which has the high spenders on with proven and repeated business.

It's called "Market Forces".

Funny how all these articles ignore the mobile platform that still has by far the largest market share. Java ME.

It might not be sexy but I've been earning my living building 'apps' (as they're now called) for Java-enabled phones for the past eight years, when the iPhone was but a twinkle in Mr. Jobs' eye.

My experience with iPhone development (and Apple's draconian 'development agreement' in particular) have been nothing but painful and far from profitable. Google's approach is far more attractive, but for now I'll stick where the money is...

@5 Of course an good anti-virus app would be successful. Until very recently it was possible to infect an iPhone using the fact that the browser automatically opens PDF files without prompt. At least Google let you put anti-virus on in the first place. Apple would let you believe that all is well and good whilst someone maxes your credit card using your iTunes account. Not saying that it has happened, but it is possible.

What the advanced task killer does is switch off background apps that you may have left running. A pretty useful thing in all honesty that is a result of having the ability to multi-task. Does Apple offer an alternative to quickly exit running applications in the background without trawling through the settings menu or opening the application itself?

Your points regarding Android phones are pretty innaccurate. Do you thing HTC are giving away the likes of the Desire on a buy one get one free approach? Or are these phones selling because they are genuine competitors to the iPhone? Yes, most come with apps pre installed, but they can be removed, and replacements downloaded. My HTC came with a number of apps installed that I use regularly, such as Friendstream. As for resticting apps, that's a bit ironic considering that it was Apple who blocked the ability to make calls over 3G using Skype, and the issue with Verizon is a cross platform problem. Nothing to do with Google/Android.

Ok The_Hess I'll bite. "Until very recently it was possible to infect an iPhone using the fact that the browser automatically opens PDF files without prompt." That is no longer possible on an updated phone and despite "world is going to end headlines" there were no reports of people losing data from it. The issue is that like PCs if you are running anti-virus software you are using up some processor cycles doing it and draining batteries. Not a real issue on a desktop but on a mobile could make all the difference.

"Apple would let you believe that all is well and good whilst someone maxes your credit card using your iTunes account." OK yesterdays Tech Crunch headline which I think you are alluding to turned out to be a straight forward Phishing scam. If you give the thieves your passwords what do you expect. It is like going out for dinner but leaving your keys in a box labelled "keys to the house" with a big flashing neon sign over it. If you get an email saying "your account has been compromised, log in here to fix it" and then start getting loads of emails from the Apple store saying that people have been buying stuff on your account, you think Apple are to blame?

"Does Apple offer an alternative to quickly exit running applications in the background without trawling through the settings menu or opening the application itself?" Yup, in iOS4 hold down the app icon in the switcher and select (-) icon. Built into the OS from scratch.

"Your points regarding Android phones are pretty innaccurate. Do you thing HTC are giving away the likes of the Desire on a buy one get one free approach? " Nope but the sales reports on individual Android phones are way lower than the iPhone but the "enormous" activation figures from Android are mostly coming from the buy one get one free handsets and the "buy for one cent" offers over at Amazon.

" Yes, most come with apps pre installed, but they can be removed, and replacements downloaded." Nope like PCs in their heyday, there are now some Android phones shipping here in the States that cannot have their pre-installed apps removed. Do a search for "removing preinstalled android apps" for a complete list of unhappy users.

"that's a bit ironic considering that it was Apple who blocked the ability to make calls over 3G using Skype"
But at least all iOS devices can run Skype. If you live in America and have an Android phone that is not on Verizon you cannot run Skype at all. That is obviously how "open" systems are supposed to work. Not.

I'm afraid Arron La is the exception rather than the rule in the Android Marketplace.

iOS App Store downloads of 5 billion apps and growing at a pace of 16 million downloads per day leaves all competing app stores in the dust (the number 2 App Store - GetJar - only gets 3 miillion downloads per day)

The proliferation of spam apps, malware and buggy hacks that clog the Android Marketplace have even DVD John the author of DoubleTwist the most popular iTunes replacement for Android calling on Google to start curating the Marketplace to reduce the mountain of crap.

Note that the Android Marktplace launched just 3 months after the iPhone App Store.

Here's what Larva Labs has to say about the sorry state of Android Apps:

鈥淥verall (as of June 18th, 2010), there were roughly 2,250 paid games and 13,000 paid non-game apps in the Market. The reason for the large number of apps vs. games is mainly due to the proliferation of spam apps, something which is much rarer in the games category. 4 games are in the 50,000-250,000 range, while 9 apps are in the 50,000-250,000 range. No paid app or game has yet exceeded 250,000 sales. Approximately 60 apps were in the 10,000-50,000 sales range, compared to approximately 45 games. It continues from there, with the vast majority of apps and games falling in to the ignominious 鈥渓ess than 50? bucket.

Overall we estimate that $6,000,000 has been paid out to developers for games, and $15,000,000 has been paid out on apps. That is a total of $21,000,000, nearly 1/50th the amount paid out to devs on iPhone ($1 billion).

This really indicates how much of a cottage industry the paid Android Market remains, with insufficient sales numbers to warrant full-time labor for paid content鈥�
(source: Larva Labs with data from Android Zoom)鈥�

-Mart

I equate the two to shopping in real life. Apple's store is that of a supermarket - its products are heavily regulated, its suppliers must meet strict conditions and the retailer takes a substantial chunk of the pie.

Android's store is akin to the markets - little regulations and standards, cheap things - leading to an overwhelming bunch of rubbish time wasting, substandard apps. But now and again you can get to the gems, and find them at a bargain price. And like in real markets, once you have that the seller does really well, with minimal overheads.

I assume Mr Tap Tap did not get his money since his app broke the rules.

@cping500

Yup he earned his money. But he did several things to upset Apple's online store:

FIrstly he got his code to reuse the volume button to convert it to a camera button to take photos. Apple is very clear that you must not change the use of the physical buttons on the device.

Secondly he submitted a version that did not do this and then released a tweet to tell people how to turn the feature back on.

So not only did he do specifically what he was told he was not allowed to do but also he then took the mick.

Despite Rory's lack of research the company is actually called Tapulous and not tap tap tap - that was one of their bigger apps. They are a big iPhone development company. They have made millions off of the app store. For some reason they decided to be cheeky with this and got their app banned, temporarily.

But the most important thing is that in two months Tapulous earned ten times what this company "leading the new goldrush" has earned in it's entire lifetime as an Android app.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

@Martin Hill

That's true but then the App store ain't no bed of roses either. Most developers would be better off as office tea boys.

Anyhow, no surprise that Android is taking off - q new platform comes out and all developers write the apps they wrote for the other platforms for it. Rinse and repeat to your satisfaction.

People were long prepared to put up with Apple's overbearance - when it was small-fry trying to be different in a Microsoft world - but when it is the behemoth in a new market (cf. apps), trying to control how its products are used once purchased seems more than a little unfair.

I hope that the regulators - European Commissioners, where are you? - will be every bit as zealous in pursuing Apple as they were Microsoft.

"I hope that the regulators - European Commissioners, where are you? - will be every bit as zealous in pursuing Apple as they were Microsoft."

What for? Where have Apple told the companies who are making and selling their products that if they installed Linux on the boxes they would have to pay a higher amount for the OS? The difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple earned its position whereas Microsoft finagled and cheated their way there. Even going back to the original deal with IBM that left a loophole for the clones to get in, or the loophole developing Word for the original Mac that "allowed them to make use of the technology found there". You don't have to buy Apple. Nobody is standing over you with a big stick making you buy. If you prefer Android you can buy that. But an awful lot of people are buying into the Apple ecosystem. The difference is it is their choice.

What do the European Commissioners have to do with this?

@Ratty comment 13

"...he did several things to upset Apple's online store:

Firstly he got his code to reuse the volume button to convert it to a camera button to take photos. Apple is very clear that you must not change the use of the physical buttons on the device.

Secondly he submitted a version that did not do this and then released a tweet to tell people how to turn the feature back on."

So Ratty how do you defend Apple's behaviour here? Why should I not have the option to take a picture with the volume button? It is so much more convenient than Apple's own clunky on screen shutter release. "You want to take a picture with your new camera? Simple - while holding the camera still with one hand just stab the middle of the screen on the back with a finger from your other hand......." Genius - why did the real camera manufacturers never think of doing it that way!

Tap Tap's solution is actually something that many iPhone users have been asking Apple to do ever since the iPhone 1.

It's hardly as if it's important that I can still adjust my ringtone volume in the middle of shooting a picture is it?

This is just an example of the implementation of stupid restrictions by Apple that people are finding hard to stomach.

Yes, I have an iPhone, I like a lot of things about it but owning it is making me detest Apple as a company.

"Where have Apple told the companies who are making and selling their products that if they installed Linux on the boxes they would have to pay a higher amount for the OS? "

im a bit confused about this comment. pay a higher amount for WHAT os? if your installing linux, its free. what does linux have to do at all with the cost of windows? and since when do you even have the option of replacing your primary OS on a mac? the coolest new feature on a mac? bootcamp. now THAT sounds like cheating to me, telling me i should buy a mac because i can run windows on it.

i like the way the market place is for google. ive yet to come across a spam app at all (not that i dont know they exist). i would hate for the android marketplace to go the way of the app store, how would i find tools for tethering my phone without paying? or tools that extend my root access that im not even supposed to have? i think the best comparison is that the apple store is like a mall, and the google store is like a flea market. if you want something you dont have to put alot of thought into go for apple (its their biggest selling point), but if you like a little control (or FLASH), go for android. who cares whos got more apps? im not gonna download 99% of them anyways.

@Steve_bracknell
"So Ratty how do you defend Apple's behaviour here? Why should I not have the option to take a picture with the volume button? It is so much more convenient than Apple's own clunky on screen shutter release. "You want to take a picture with your new camera? Simple - while holding the camera still with one hand just stab the middle of the screen on the back with a finger from your other hand......." Genius - why did the real camera manufacturers never think of doing it that way!"

You're funny. Firstly rules is rules. If you are asked to adhere to the rules to gain entrance to the store then you follow the rules. Secondly "Apple's own clunky on screen shutter release" Well considering many of the Android phones actually have buttons on the camera to do this specific job but are actually dreadfully slow at actually taking a picture that is especially rich. Apple's approach is of a device that is complete in what it does. Do you complain that a SONY TV set suddenly makes coffee when you turn the volume control up? Nope because it would be stupid. But you are perfectly happy with pressing a volume control on a phone to take a picture? See how stupid that sounds?

"Tap Tap's solution is actually something that many iPhone users have been asking Apple to do ever since the iPhone 1."
Nope Tapulous's Camera plus app adds the feature that people would like - a shutter release - by doing exactly what Apple told them to not do: reuse buttons which have a function for another function. You may be clever but it would confuse a certain set of users - the ones that certainly wouldn't buy an Android device.

"It's hardly as if it's important that I can still adjust my ringtone volume in the middle of shooting a picture is it?"But it is to do with the functionality of the button but also just because something is possible it shouldn't be open. Here is a question you are running the Camera app but have music streaming from Pandora or Spotify and a couple of other background apps running. Let's say they all have the ability to change the function of the volume buttons. Which one does what at a given time? Can you see the sort of mess this causes? What happens if someone reprograms the volume down button to be an App switcher. Oh fun ensues.

"This is just an example of the implementation of stupid restrictions by Apple that people are finding hard to stomach." But there are perfectly valid reasons for this and there is always the option to buy something else. There are touch Blackberries and plenty of Android devices you don't have to buy the Apple solution. But if you do you just have to accept that they have the right to control the device. If you don't like it don't buy it.

"Yes, I have an iPhone, I like a lot of things about it but owning it is making me detest Apple as a company."
Sell it. Buy an Android device. One with a camera and a shutter release and then use it to take photos.

@Jack_Spade
"im a bit confused about this comment. pay a higher amount for WHAT os? if your installing linux, its free. what does linux have to do at all with the cost of windows?"

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. Microsoft did a deal with Dell and HP and others so that if they produced machines pre-installed with Linux then the OEM prices of the cost of Windows would be more expensive to them. I'm not talking about end user prices but basically Microsoft blackmailed these companies to not make Linux machines or if they did they would be charged more for making Windows machines, their main center of profit at the time. For this they were convicted of being a monopoly here in the States. Microsoft were abusing their monopoly as the producer of Windows to stop their OEMs from using competitors OS's.

"i think the best comparison is that the apple store is like a mall, and the google store is like a flea market."
I agree but the issue is that the Mall takes a lot of money but the flea market takes just pennies - hardly the place for the "new goldrush".

We keep hearing stories about people having their apps suddenly banned from Apple's App store, for apparently breaking the rules: then people complain, if they broke the rules, why did Apple let them in in the first place? And accuse Apple of "bullying". Well, I'd say Apple have a right to change the rules as they go along, when they discover people exploiting the hardware/OS in a way they hadn't anticipated.

Let's say you have a party: it goes great for a while, then a couple of people start behaving in a manner that spoils the party for you and the other guests: you had no prior idea they were going to behave in this way when you asked them in: do you ask them to desist/leave, or let them carry on? What's more important to you: that the people you eject from the party are going to call you "bully", or that the party continues to be a good time for everyone else?

@9

Firstly, I stated the PDF situation as an example that no system, no matter how restrictive, is ever totally secure. There could easily be other security flaws in the system that Apple haven't announced yet. It's a bit like people who refuse to run anti virus software on a Mac. Yes, by it's nature, the Mac is slightly more secure than a Windows PC and there are fewer viruses out there (lower user base makes them far less worthwhile) but they still happen and to pretend otherwise is foolish.

I was not specifically refering to the recent phishing scam/iTunes issue. I was making reference to Apple's knack of treating users like children, such as over the recent antenna issue, where they tried to convince people that it was a sofware issue, when it turned out to be hardware based, as a number of people commented on initially. In other words, Apple's attitude could do with some improvement.

As for the Verizon issue, that is a problem with the network providers/Skype as opposed to Android itself. The networks are tampering with the software before selling it to consumers, and is more of an issue for the competition regulators than anyone else.

The functions of the task killer are already built into the Android OS through the settings menu. All the task killer does is bring them closer to the top.

Your comments with regards to using the volume controls for the camera function are misguided. If people want to use this feature, surely they should be allowed to? It's not like it's a major security hole. Lets face it, using the buttons on the side of the phone for apps is pretty useful in many instances. Admittedly more so on an Android phone with the search, menu and return buttons as well as the trackerball. I'm speaking from m experience with an HTC Legend, so other phones will be different.

Personally, I couldn't care less how much money each store is making. There are far more pressing issues in the world of tech than someone making some money by selling a bit of tech. I would say that professional Windows/Mac software is where the money really is. Photoshop, Microsoft Office, games? These make far more money than most apps on any store.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

There is an interesting conundrum here and one that is difficult to consider, are apps (and app stores for that matter)providing something different so the user can personalise or are they filling in the gap of inadequate features of a purchased phone. Camera+ sounds as if it is the latter an external shutter release is what many would want on their iphone - however it broke the rules and so was removed, this concerns me not so much that it broke rules but why approve an application but then remove it - does this show that apple are not really looking at what they approved or that they are wishing they provided this feature themselves and got upset?
We also have to ask why does app numbers and downloads not relate to total phone ownership as opposed to usage style? I use a nokia running S60 and have had my phone for over a couple of years, my wife has iphone4 she has downloaded what seems like 100+ apps, I have probably 10. it can do all the music and video things i require, 5MP camera with own shutter button, wifi, surf the web, play flash, exchange server, google maps etc. Yes ovi store is rubbish to use and has little on it, but our app ownership is also related to what we do with a phone, she lets the kids play games on hers but i dont let them touch mine!

@RattyUK

I stated the PDF situation as an example that no system, no matter how restrictive, is ever totally secure. There could easily be other security flaws in the system that Apple haven't announced yet. It's a bit like people who refuse to run anti virus software on a Mac. Yes, by it's nature, the Mac is slightly more secure than a Windows PC and there are fewer viruses out there (lower user base makes them far less worthwhile) but they still happen and to pretend otherwise is foolish.

@RattyUK

I was not specifically refering to the recent phishing scam/iTunes issue. I was making reference to Apple's knack of treating users like children, such as over the recent antenna issue, where they tried to convince people that it was a sofware issue, when it turned out to be hardware based, as a number of people commented on initially. In other words, Apple's attitude could do with some improvement.

"I hope that the regulators - European Commissioners, where are you? - will be every bit as zealous in pursuing Apple as they were Microsoft."

> What for?

For enforcing a developer agreement that is unfairly restrictive.

The developer agreement states that, not only can you not change the functionality of the device hardware (volume buttons etc) but that you cannot sell software that 'replicates' (read 'improves') any of the 'built-in' software on the device itself.

Think Apples's email app sucks? Want to download another one? Sorry - not allowed.

Not only do Apple's draconian policies apply to the software you develop, they now apply to the tools you use to develop with! Witness the recent furore regarding their outlawing of Adobe's Flash to iPhone tool, and there are plenty of other companies potentially affected by that clause in the dev agreement,

In my opinion this type of dictatorial approach is bad for both the developer and the consumer and borderline illegal. Who'd think of buying a PC if you could only install software on it that had been approved by the manufacturer?

Apple have a very large market share of the Smartphone market now (which is in turn a very small percentage of the overall mobile phone market) but a long time ago they used to own the PC market too - look how they screwed that up!

BTW, I'm not an Apple hater, I've been using Macs for almost twenty years and love them. Apple has it spot on with OS X.

News just in...

"Apple has announced it will no longer accept advertising campaigns on the Quattro Wireless Network, the mobile advertising platform it acquired in January this year.

The company will wind down existing campaigns on the Quattro platform and, from 30 September, will only support mobile ads on its iAd network.

Quattro Wireless Network spanned mobile websites as well as a range of mobile platforms, including Apple's iPhone and Google Android. In contrast, iAd only works with devices that run iOS 4 - that is, Apple's iPhone and iPod Touch."

Another sign of corporate bullying, buy and bury the cross-platform competition!

And more 'big brother' news in today...

Apple iPhone patent could spell death of jailbroken mobiles

Apple is apparently ramping up its battle to prevent iPhone and iPod owners from jailbreaking their devices.

The company has applied for a patent, titled Systems and Methods for Identifying Unauthorised Users of an Electronic Device, that covers a series of security measures to automatically protect devices from thieves and other "unauthorised users". Unauthorised users apparently applies to those who engage in jailbreaking, which allows devices to run apps not approved by the company producing the operating system - such as Apple, the main target of such bypasses.

The application, which was filed in February 2009 and published on Thursday, describes measures to identify "particular activities that may indicate suspicious behaviour", so that "safety measures" can be taken to restrict the device's functions. Those activities include the "hacking, jailbreaking, unlocking, or removal of a SIM card", according to the application. Apple also intends to send warnings to owners via email or text message when such activity is detected.

And more 'big brother' news...

Apple iPhone patent could spell death of jailbroken mobiles

Apple is apparently ramping up its battle to prevent iPhone and iPod owners from jailbreaking their devices.

The company has applied for a patent, titled Systems and Methods for Identifying Unauthorised Users of an Electronic Device, that covers a series of security measures to automatically protect devices from thieves and other "unauthorised users". Unauthorised users apparently applies to those who engage in jailbreaking, which allows devices to run apps not approved by the company producing the operating system - such as Apple, the main target of such bypasses.

The application, which was filed in February 2009 and published on Thursday, describes measures to identify "particular activities that may indicate suspicious behaviour", so that "safety measures" can be taken to restrict the device's functions. Those activities include the "hacking, jailbreaking, unlocking, or removal of a SIM card", according to the application. Apple also intends to send warnings to owners via email or text message when such activity is detected.

Yet more, it gets worse...

Apple iPhone patent could spell death of jailbroken mobiles

Apple is apparently ramping up its battle to prevent iPhone and iPod owners from jailbreaking their devices.

The company has applied for a patent, titled Systems and Methods for Identifying Unauthorised Users of an Electronic Device, that covers a series of security measures to automatically protect devices from thieves and other "unauthorised users". Unauthorised users apparently applies to those who engage in jailbreaking, which allows devices to run apps not approved by the company producing the operating system - such as Apple, the main target of such bypasses.

The application, which was filed in February 2009 and published on Thursday, describes measures to identify "particular activities that may indicate suspicious behaviour", so that "safety measures" can be taken to restrict the device's functions. Those activities include the "hacking, jailbreaking, unlocking, or removal of a SIM card", according to the application. Apple also intends to send warnings to owners via email or text message when such activity is detected.

I really don't see how Apple could be deemed anti-competitive for having T&C's. I would suggest developers use some common sense and read terms and conditions, before investing time and money into new applications.

I doubt apple get thrills removing a source of revenue.

17. At 10:36pm on 24 Aug 2010, RattyUK wrote:
The difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple earned its position whereas Microsoft finagled and cheated their way there.
-------------------------------------------------------------

The difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple have never been in the dominant position.

As that changes so does their behaviour (same can be said for Google for that matter - their "do no Evil" motto is starting to look very shaky).

Whilst Apple have a long way to go to equal Microsoft's record over the years....... they do seem like they are trying to do just that.



At the end of the day any CEO worth their salt would sell their own Grandmother for a decent yearly profit, doesn't matter what name they go by.

@Muleskinner
OK you've proven your anti-Apple credentials with a list of red herrings for the day. Well done. I will state one more time. Nobody is making anyone buy Apple. But people are buying. Your responses to these "issues" are a bit like all the Apple fans piling in on Microsoft back in the day. Once you achieve a large market share then people like to knock you down. "How dare you be so popular!" they exclaim.

"The company will wind down existing campaigns on the Quattro platform and, from 30 September, will only support mobile ads on its iAd network... Another sign of corporate bullying, buy and bury the cross-platform competition!"
So nice scary headline but how about some facts? Apple purchased Quattro Wireless and their BOSS is now head of advertising for Apple. That is he is the boss of iAD. Quattro Wireless for all intents and purposes is iAD. The problem is that they can't run both companies at the same time. So Apple is giving fair warning to the Advertisers on the Quattro network that they will no longer be taken adverts for them. See? When you actually know what is going on it isn't quite as bad as you were making out.

"For enforcing a developer agreement that is unfairly restrictive. The developer agreement states that, not only can you not change the functionality of the device hardware (volume buttons etc) but that you cannot sell software that 'replicates' (read 'improves') any of the 'built-in' software on the device itself."
I think you are scraping the barrel now. Look if you want to develop for iOS you follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules go and develop for something else. Once you've cleared your first million Apple will come kicking and screaming to your door about how wonderful your mail app was which used the volume buttons to scroll through the replies and you will be vindicated.

"Witness the recent furore regarding their outlawing of Adobe's Flash to iPhone tool"
So you think it is fair that we get a bland set of apps produced by a group of web designers? Why do you want to dumb down an App so that it can be the same across all mobile platforms regardless of the platforms abilities because Adobe says it's good? And shall we bring math into the equation? How much is XCODE? Free. How much do you pay for Flash? The retail price is 600 bucks.

"Who'd think of buying a PC if you could only install software on it that had been approved by the manufacturer?"
Well the point here is that people are buying iPhones and iPod touches and iPads, precisely for that reason. You may not like it and fume with righteous indignation but honestly it seems to be working for most people.

"Apple have a very large market share of the Smartphone market now (which is in turn a very small percentage of the overall mobile phone market) but a long time ago they used to own the PC market too - look how they screwed that up!"
OK Apple have 3% of the mobile phone market at the moment. BUT 50% of the profits. This is not the smartphone share or profit this is the whole market. This is why Apple's competitors are scared. And secondly Apple never owned the PC market - ok maybe with the Apple II back in the very very very early 80s but never with the Macintosh. This is a myth that is kicking about to support the theory that the iPhone will fade away. It is wrong.

Regarding monopolistic behaviour. I would have thought that Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with their PCs, but allowing other browsers to be freely installed is far less monopolistic than a company restricting what you can install and not allowing any directly competing products to be installed. However it's Microsoft that gets the fine and other companies get to do what they like.

Restricting what you can do with something you have bought is, to me, anathema. Effectively it means that you don't actually own what you've bought because someone else is controlling what you can do with it.
That said, some people like to live in a cosy protected world where nothing nasty can happen - but others prefer to experience all that life can offer and accept the risks.
Let's face it, the restrictive environment of the app store is specifically to make Apple as much money from doing nothing. It's successful because of the marketting effort spent on it - I haven't seen a TV ad specifically for an Android device - but that doesn't make it good, only more popular. How long it remains popular is anyone's guess - but if there's one thing that is certain in the world of technology, it is that things don't stay the same for long.

@the_hess
"There could easily be other security flaws in the system that Apple haven't announced yet."
Yup but the same goes for every peice of computing hardware attached to a network.

"It's a bit like people who refuse to run anti virus software on a Mac. Yes, by it's nature, the Mac is slightly more secure than a Windows PC and there are fewer viruses out there (lower user base makes them far less worthwhile) but they still happen and to pretend otherwise is foolish."
Anti-virus software on the Mac is not required. Honestly. Ironically last night's security update had the following "Description: Multiple vulnerabilities exist in ClamAV, the most serious of which may lead to arbitrary code execution." So by having antivirus installed on the Mac made it less secure. Way to go.

"I was making reference to Apple's knack of treating users like children, such as over the recent antenna issue, where they tried to convince people that it was a sofware issue, when it turned out to be hardware based, as a number of people commented on initially. In other words, Apple's attitude could do with some improvement."
Indeed - but if you feel that Apple is "treating you like a child" then don't use them. Problem solved. If the Apple way is not for you then ignore it.

"As for the Verizon issue, that is a problem with the network providers/Skype as opposed to Android itself. The networks are tampering with the software before selling it to consumers, and is more of an issue for the competition regulators than anyone else."
You don't think that it is ironic that because of the openness of Android deals like this can be made?
The difference is that Apple is the only company that stood against it. They lost a lot of things such as the ability to run Skype over 3g or tethering and the other networks are adding these features to all their handsets to try and differentiate their knock-off products. But you know what? As they gain customers these features will be pared back from these competing porducts as they hit the wall of over usages that came with the iPhone.
Google has enabled this sort of false differentiation to be reenabled by the carriers. Great move Google.

"The functions of the task killer are already built into the Android OS through the settings menu. All the task killer does is bring them closer to the top."
So they are charging 99 cents for something the OS already does? You don't see anything wrong with that picture?

"Your comments with regards to using the volume controls for the camera function are misguided."
Would you care to explain what happens in my free-for-all example where every app maps them to some random feature?

"Personally, I couldn't care less how much money each store is making."
But as a developer you do. You go to where the money is.

Why do these things always descend into a fight between fanbois?

In the red corner - "anti-Apple's" with their regurgitated posts about how Apple contols the App Store tightly - shock, horror! we've known that for a long time now.

In the blue corner - "pro-Apple's" with their patronising, smug replies and total disregard for any other opinion.

You know who you are.


The fact is both market places will continue for some time, and the canny developers will have a thumb in both pies. Producing quality apps, for multiple platforms, is good business sense.

Why do these things always descend into a fight between fanbois?

anti-Apple : raving, repetitive, regurgitated posts about how Apple contols the App Store and devices 'too tightly'. That is not news.

pro-Apple : patronising, smug replies, often avoiding the question and falling back on sales figures when they should stress the REAL strength of iPhone - ease-of-use.

You know who you are.


The fact is both market places will continue for some time, and the canny developers will have a thumb in both pies. Producing quality apps, for multiple platforms, is good business sense. Timing the jump to the Next Big Thing is the trick - like Tarzan on a vine.

" it's Microsoft that gets the fine and other companies get to do what they like"

it's Microsoft that have their OS on 90+ % of retail PCs and hence have market dominance that may need to be kept in check.

Plenty of alternatives to crApple and android phones are very good.

"Look if you want to develop for iOS you follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules go and develop for something else..."

That's exactly what I have done, as I said in a previous post, I've been making a living developing mobile software long before Apple came on the scene. Using a Mac!

I'm not 'anti-Apple'. I'm a long-time Apple user and fan. Ironically most people I know consider me an Apple 'fanboy'. I don't like it when any company starts to abuse a dominant market position which is what I consider Apple to be doing at the moment. I very much doubt they'll be able to continue doing this if their share of the overall mobile phone market grows to anything like Microsoft's share of the PC market.

I don't think I'll ever ditch my Mac, but I've ditched my iPhone (actually it's gathering dust in a drawer).

@muleskinner

It saddens me to read the outright lies posted by people that are not at all familiar with the iPhone or its eco-system.

> The developer agreement states that, not only can you not change the
> functionality of the device hardware (volume buttons etc) but that
> you cannot sell software that 'replicates' (read 'improves') any of
> the 'built-in' software on the device itself.
>
> Think Apples's email app sucks? Want to download another one?
> Sorry - not allowed.

Lie number 1. If this was true, then there would not be a host of alternate applications in the app store SPECIFICALLY to provide a better email package than the one provided by Apple. Likewise, there are apps to replace the built in calendar app. Maps app. Browser app...

The developer agreement states you can not duplicate the functionality of the built in software. It NEVER (as in NEVER) states you can not improve the functionality of the built in software.


> In my opinion this type of dictatorial approach is bad for both the
> developer and the consumer and borderline illegal.

Lie number 2. If anything, this approach is a god-send to the consumer. Apple provides a very rich and powerful development environment allowing for development C, C++, Objective C++ and Objective-C languages. The core foundation API has been continually refined nearly 20 years. The developer tool set refined for nearly 20 years.

Both Apple and Google employ hidden APIs that ARE NOT TO BE USED BY DEVELOPERS. Apple enforces this by decree. Google does not but then stands a high probability of apps using these hidden APIs to break as a result of system updates. This results in fragmentation and creates a nightmare for consumers. This has been born out in reality and not just in theory.

Google Voice is a wonderful app and is also an example of this. They replaced existing interfaces using hidden API calls and that is strictly forbidden. Did hubris make Google think they could do this because they were Google??? Perhaps.

> Apple have a very large market share of the Smartphone market now
> (which is in turn a very small percentage of the overall mobile phone
> market) but a long time ago they used to own the PC market too - look
> how they screwed that up!

Lie number 3. Apple never really owned the PC market. They once owned the hobbits market with the Apple II but even then, Commodore had substantially higher unit sales with the C-64 than Apple ever did with the Apple II. AT one point, the Mac had a 25-30% market share in the US and, through opening the platform and really poor management, squandered that down to 2-3%. They now have about 10% market share in the US (about 5-6% worldwide) and capture about 70% of the profits. Sounds like a solid company now.

@muleskinner

News just in muleskinner continues his mis-representation of the facts.

> > "Apple has announced it will no longer accept advertising campaigns on
> > the Quattro Wireless Network, the mobile advertising platform it
> > acquired in January this year."

> Another sign of corporate bullying, buy and bury the
> cross-platform competition!

Again, another lie. While it is true that Apple is using the Quottro Ad network as the basis of iAd, it is far from true to this pointing to signs of "corporate bullying, buy and bury the cross-platform competition!" You jumping to that conclusion simply points to a consistent trend of out-right lies and mis-representation of the facts and real data.

How is a company buying a another company a sign of corporate bullying? When AdMob was perchanced by Google and Google had them drop the iPod Touch from the iPhone OS (as it was then called) numbers was this an example of corporate deception? No it is an example and the purchased company becoming a tool for the new parent. It is that simple.

Apple has no desire to handle advertising outside of the iOS platform. Google sells classified ads and Apple is selling high level production ads. They are really different markets. likewise, before you say Google selling classified ads is demeaning, remember that classified ads make LOTS and LOTS of money. The single biggest threat to traditional daily print publications is CraigsList. The loss of classified ads has seriously impacted the bottom line of newspapers world wide.

Heck, when a FlashLite app makes 40,000K in a couple weeks, why would Apple want to open this developer revenue stream to the competition? That would be simply stupid business and would not serve Apple, their customers or their shareholders.

@SteveRN: Regarding your lie number 1, well you yourself disprove it's a lie in your next paragraph. If you want to improve on any existing functionality you are prevented from doing so - you can only produce new functionality using the existing Apple apps. All the available browser apps are built on Safari - if you wanted to write a browser app using a different rendering engine you would be in breach of the licence agreement.
Your lie number 2 is bizarre as the author is expressing his opinion - are you telling me you know him and that his opinion isn't as he stated?
This sort of rubbish has no place on here.

What a load of drivel people write about the Apple App Store. Yes, it is curated, to ensure decent content. Calling it draconian et al is just pure nonsense.

For those people who do go with the Apple Inc. experience, go buy any one of a zillion Android phones and have fun downloading a load of spam and functionally sub-par apps and games; when you fed up with that specific model of Android phone, go get another Android phone, with another slightly different UI (because its a different handset vendor) and also make sure you get the new handset from a different network, so that they can also slightly alter your experience. Once you have been through that experience, good luck downloading all those same Android apps you love, hoping that they work on the different handset/network device.

Frankly, the Android 'experiment' will come crashing down within two years. You heard it here first!!

I love how this has descended into "my dad's bigger than your dad"...grow up guys I assume you are not all 14!

I take issue with the way Apple won't let you make apps which directly challenge their own but if they continue to grow in their market share they will be forced to open it up. I mean Microsoft didn't even stop you installing a new browser and got slated and fined. My main issue though, but it's the same with all Apple products, is the hugely inflated price tag for no different technology just for the pleasure of having a half eaten piece of fruit on the rear of it.

Quite equally Android isn't without it's issues. The range of manufacturers all wrapping the OS in their own UI and the various versions of Android currently being run do mean some apps aren't as good. The main most impressive apps generally run fine on all versions. My main issue with Android though is the feeling that Google are harvesting a vast amount data about me and probably know more about me than my mates...but they collect info from everywhere not just my phone.

#51 @lambrettamike: Have you ever actually used an android phone or are you preaching from your pile of iPhone boxes? I have had 2 Android phones (and an iPhone) both from HTC and have not had one app that hasn't been available on both. On the newer versions they just have more functionality or shinier interface.

Overall though remember no-one is forcing an iPhone or Android device on you so chillax it's only a phone not a pacemaker or other life saving device!

Why are the big companies so negative to the small developer and its getting worse.
Facebook suing a small company called Teachbook for having a social network site dedicated to teachers. Apple removing apps, because lets face it, its a tool they should have had in the first place, hence the removal so they can develop their own. Google AdSense removing accounts because they are earning too much money for people.

It's a complete and utter joke and to be honest I think its only going to get worse.

The current smartphone app trend is nothing but a transient phase, the leading edge of the web phone revolution, and I'm pretty sure that both Apple and Google know this. HTML5 and WebGL are currently incomplete and the web is not yet optimised for phones, so we must rely on client applications instead of websites for our mobile applications. Once WebKit has decent support for both we'll see a massive shift away from mobile apps, just give it a few years.

Apple have seen this and cashed in early. They've put a paywall around mobile apps, enforced quality standards to make their brand stand out, they're encouraging a culture of paid for content where everything is beautiful and expensive and they get a cut of everything you pay for. I can't imagine this strategy winning in the long run, at least I hope it doesn't.

Google on the other hand have a different appraoch, their laissez-faire rules have made the Android Marketplace a chaotic free-for-all similar to the web of the dot-com boom days. They don't mind ugly apps, all that matters is that app developers choose Google Adsense to monetize their creations and Google will get paid whenever a user uses an app.

Google's model is sustainable and will smoothly transition to HTML5 web apps, Apple's can't; they can't control the entire web. There may be a small gold rush and a few Android millionaires, but in the long run we're more likely to just see many new, useful and highly popular websites which will make lots of advertising money for their operators.

In my opinion, the quality of the apps on Apples iTunes store are of higher quality than the apps on say Google Android Market place. I hate fact you can't browse the available apps on your computer on the Android store and sometimes it takes a few attempts to install certain apps.

You could argue Apples strict terms and conditions is evident in the quality of the apps available over Googles open laid back approach to the development of apps.

You make all the right points about the Apple App Store. And it's so hard to tell whether Sheriff Jobs is acting to protect the user experience or to reinforce Apple's ability to exploit the commercial potential of iPhone and the App Store to the detriment of other developers.

One area where, so far, Apple has been progressive and open is support for HTML5, which delivers rich functionality to the browser which might otherwise require an app. That said, one wonders whether Apple's prime motive is promoting the openness of HTML5 or, rather, keeping Flash at bay.