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The magical quartet is also the formation that Wanderley Luxemburgo used in his later days in Real Madrid, without success. But anybody with the same players would do the same mistake, can you leave Kaka on the bench for Ronaldinho(when he was on his peak)?

Even nowadays Brazil has been using something like that, the formation against Paraguay being almost a 4-2-1-1-2.

good blog. about the world cup, more teams may have defended against them but still - surely ronaldinio, robinho, adriano, kaka could find a way through. they could all crack open a defence by themselves, let alone as a quintet. but it just didnt work out. plus, against brazil zidane was magnificent, won it for them by himself.

Now that ronaldinho isnt as good as he once was I think dunga can balance the team a lot better than it has been in previous years. Ie elano is deeper in midfield and can pick a pass and unleash players like robinho and kaka.

Dont forget that brazil also have some great defensive talent like maicon, alves alex and lucio.

I expect them to win the Confederations cup.

Spain will cruise it.

The tournament will give Dunga much needed time with his squad, as South American WC qualifiers don't give you enough days to train and blend a team.

3 - Alex isn't on the squad. And to be honest, I don't rate him as high as I rate Lucio and Juan. Also Daniel Alves is a very offensive player.

My defensive hopes lie with Julio Cesar, who's one of the best goalkeepers if not the best goalkeeper in the world.

I don't know who I'd say have more chances, Brazil or Spain. Both are very offensive teams, but I'd say Brazil is better defensively. Senna was one of the best players in their Euro triumph and today they aren't playing any holding midfielder. Brazil on the other side plays with two, Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva.

I agree with galoucura (1); it would have been very difficult to leave any one of the 'magic quartet' on the bench. Moreover, they had defensive midfielders like Gilberto Silva who should have covered for the attack oriented play. Too much hype and problems in preparation, not team selection, are in my view to blame for Brazil's failure to win the cup with arguably one of the best teams ever to play for any country. That's the view I get from most of my local friends here in Brazil, too. That, and the view that the players these days are more interested in playing for their clubs than country, because of the millions they make, but I do not share this view (not at least in relation to the 2006 WC).

Brazil are behind Spain and this cup will show it. Spain have a better MF, Better stikers and more confidence. Brazil might have a slightly better defence but that itself is not that convincing. Spain also have Cassilas and a better strength in depth. Spain to prove there quality.
Btw Spain are beating New Zealand 4-0 and its the 24th minute. A torres hatrick and a Fabregas goal.

Great blog as per usual Tim.
I hate to ask something so off topic but a lot of the talk has clearly been on the recent acceptance of Real's bid for Ronaldo and as a result there is a lot of speculation as to his successor at United. I've heard the name Alexis Sanchez thrown about as a great possible replacement. Having heard of him a while back when I was living in Chile I was amazed and chuffed to hear the name. What do you think of him? Is he the right sort of player for United and would he fit in? If not is ther a certain South American player that you see could be the new flair player in the number 7 at United?

I'm not so sure that Spain are currently ahead of Brazil.
Undoubtably they are both fantastic footballing sides, however, I watched Brazil take Uraguay apart in a World Cup qualifier in Uraquay recently and they looked out of this world going forward.
They also have an amazing keeper who stopped everything that night including the kitchen sink.

@10

Spain can do everything Brazil can do, just better.

I think you'll struggle to find a midfield as strong as Spain's - Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas and Alonso?? Villa and Torres aren't too bad either.

Brazil are behind Spain and this cup will show it. Spain have a better MF, Better stikers and more confidence.

-------------------------------

One Euro win against a a very weak field (No England, Italy and France in disarray and confuse whether to stick with the old or blood the new generation, Germany just not the Germany of old, Portugal's golden era coming to its end)) and Spain are anointed as the next best thing! The way English fans are pimping Spain is the way they pimp players from PL being best. Oh wait, why yes! Spains national side has very large dose of PL players.

A tired aging Italian side, a rubbish German side almost took Spain out. Spain are a good a side. But when world cup starts, the usual bullies Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, and perhaps Argies will grind their way and just like last 28 years two of these will play in the finals. World cup is different beast. Denmark looked wonderful winning the Euro 92! The 1988 EC winner Netherlands we were told was one of the best side winning EC (they wound up going winless in the subsequent World cup).

Chelsea against Barca in many ways is club version of a teams like Brazil (under Dunga) Italy or France against Spain, EXCEPT Barca are actually physically stronger than Spain, while a team like Brazil is technically better than Chelsea.
Spain are not physically strong enough to survive gauntlet of bullies that show up for the WC. If you could combine Englands physical and tireless squad with Spain talented and technical players you could get a WC winner.


Before the Copa final I wrote that Brazil will easily beat the
Argies. Teams like Argentina and Spain will destroy lesser opponents, but they won't be able to cope with physical teams that are not short on technically gifted players.

On the suject of Brazilian managers,Bafana Bafana the South African football team seem in a mini crisis.Afer today's bore draw against Iraq they had most of the possesion and the best attempts.


Two coaches in 13 months,first for 16 months was Carlos Albero Parreira won 2002 World Cup with Brazil when he wife Leila was diagnosed with cancer he left his post as SA coach. He now coaches his childhood team Fuminese. His place was taken by Joel Santana but I feel he has stiffled the natural of the African players


I feel this need to have a foreign national coach has affected the whole style of African play.

Chelsea and Brazil are nothing a like. Tell me a brazillian MF currently better than Xavi and Iniesta. Brazil are ahead of england but belive it or not only just. Italy,Germany,France,Argentina and Portugal are curently going through AWFUL spells while England and Brazil are now developing into good sides.

Dunga has so far looked like an average coach and hasn't impressed me. How many stars can you name in the Brazil line up? Kaka, Robinio.. They have young players coming through and are developing. There MF needs work, Josue, Anderson and Silva are average. Compare that to Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas.

Spain have the edge over Brazil at the moment because they have had more consistency with their squad whereas Brazil are still not sure who will be playing or what formation. Another thing that will help Spain is that they have all the momentum with them from the Euros and a mazing unbeaten streak and wether or not they are really the better side this will have a huge affect.

Italy are strong but they are an old and Spain again have the edge on them. In fairness Italy did not just crumble against them in the Euros (penaltys can go either way) and they have Lippi back which is a major boost. Even so Spain have to much energy for them and i expect them to win the tournament fairly comfortably.

11 - Too much firepower.

Take Alonso(who's just average) out and use Marcos Senna and you'll have a more complete midfield.

Brazil's ain't bad. Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva are very good at protecting the back and Kaka' is a real threat playing behind the striker. Elano has been doing well for the national side too, albeit he is not a star.

We also have much more attacking power in the full-backs.

I see Spain as the best squad but they are not years ahead of anybody. And missing two of most important players.

two of the most important players, I forgot to write the "the"

15 - Brazil has been very consistently tactical-wise with Dunga, also we have no problems with squad selection, only with two positions(who's the right-back, Maicon or Dani Alves and who is Luis Fabiano replacement in case he gets suspended/injured)

Tim, great blog as always.

some nice posts on this board as well. however, most of you favoring spain are crediting them too heavily. no doubt they are a fine footballing outfit, and probably the best team around (and favorites for WC2010), but they have not been tested outside of europe. really. once the WC2010, the real deal starts, teams would comprise of players willing to give lives for their nations on the field -- the dynamic just changes completely in that competition. unheralded sides try to make it tough, and experienced big teams like germany, brazil, italy, france, argentina are really not going to make it easy for spain. spain did well to get rid of its 'underachiever' tag at EUROS, but the world cup will really test their mettle like never before. i don't think the CONFED cup will provide the answer to how legitamate spain is. on current form, i wouldn't even mind spain winning the CONFED cup...after all, the team that wins it has never gone on to lift the world cup! 1 year is a long time, who knows what will happen to a team's form. i've seen enough of brasil to know this.

Having Italy, Spain and Brazil taking part means whoever wins should be the favourite for the WC. Argentina seem too inconsistent to win the WC, whilst England, Germany and France are not good enough right now.
With the exception of Italy (who won the WC 3 years ago) and South Africa (who are hosts), the Confederations Cup provides the national sides who have won each regional federation in the past 12 months or so.
Therefore we are looking at the form/best sides from each region. So arguably the Confed Cup has more legitimacy to prove the world's best side than the World Cup - especially as the WC is longer and therefore means more likelihood of an injury or a poor performance over 3 knockout rounds, rather than 1 knockout round.

However, what has been proven very early is that Asia and Oceania do not have good national teams. I think it is quite likely USA will compete the SF with the European teams and Brazil.

#21

Dont know if you are familiar with qualifying from a group of 4 but its impossible for the two europeans and brazil and usa to qualify due to Italy, Brazil and USA all being in the same group. just thought i would point that out for the uneducated.

If it is true that winners of this cup never went on to win the following World Cup, it means whoever end up wining this cup may not win in South Africa. If this logic is correct, it doesn't matter what happens in the next few weeks at all, next year we will see a complete different story.
Personally, I hope Italy or Spain will win the Confederations Cup. So that none of them do well in the World Cup. Brazil won in 1997 and 2005 and we know what happened next. They never won when they were the favourites. I am placing my bets for next year after this cup is finished.

I can't believe people seem to be using the fact the Gilberto Silva is in the side as evidence that Brazil are better than Spain. This is THE Gilberto Silva, right?

It's certainly going to be interesting to see how Brazil will fare up against Spain and Italy.

Really glad to see Nilmar get his chance against Paraguay last week, he's deserved it. I hope he continues in the team against Egypt today.

Matt

While I'll admit I haven't seen a great deal of Brazil, the fact people seem to view them as superior is somewhat questionable. Spain are a team that haven't lost in 30 odd games, and have only conceded 6 goals in their last 20 or something along those lines. Therefore I find it hard to understand how Brazil are being considered as defensively superior.

Spain's midfield is easily the strongest on the planet, the way they keep the ball means they should be clear favourites for the World Cup. However, its easily plausible that they could be undone by a stubborn German or Italian team for instance. I can't see them being outmuscled that easily though, considering Puyol, Ramos, Albiol, Marchena and Senna are providing the spine of their team.

Brazil are often overrated, Spain have been in the past, but this team are the real deal.

24 - He's a fantastic defensive midfielder, where has Arsenal gone without him and Flamini?

26 - What I said is that Spain is without their key defensive player on the midfield(Senna), therefore I expect them to be open.

They played Alonso, Xavi, Riera and Fabregas yesterday, who's there to protect the defense?

Also, I consider Spain to be favorites to the World Cup, but remember how important was Senna in their Euro 2008 triumph.

Hi Tim
I'v been reading your blog regularly over the last few months and have found it really interesting reading about football in South America.
I just had one question for you, I've heard recently that Manchester United have been linked with 18 year old Brazilian prodigy Douglas Costa, I just wondered what your assesment of the player was? As a United fan I'm quite eager to find out if he's worth investing in.
Thanks a lot
Rick

@ 28 Until Tim gets back to you

Ive seen him play only a couple of times, attacking mid/forward, not really a striker. as you'd expect good on the ball, good free kicks, left footed i think. not a regualr at gremio yet...

This Spain team reminds me of the great France team w ehad between 98 and 02, with our first choice back 4 never losing a game, playesr scoring from everywhere, petit, pires, djorkaeff, henry, trezeguet et al, and a great defensive mid like Deschamps.

Favourites for WC at this stage for me.

The confederations cup gives the competing countries an advantage because the coaches get more playing time with their troops.

Egypt have given Brazil a tough game and one where you'd have expected the Brazilians to dominate possession because of their supposed better technique.

Dunga is on a tightrope here; as negative as Domenech. Trying to cater for the Kaka's and RObinho's in a 4-2-3-1 just isn't working. It's not like Spain where they let the players play to their strengths. Gilberto and Melo are hampering them as Brazil need to be a technical side, offering more fluidity. Drop one and bring in Hernanes. But that won't happen as he put on Pato on the left when he came on.

@ 30

your comment about the startegic tactics of Brazil and FRance are spot on in my opinion and cretainly for us the core of our problems, that and the mental side.

Galoucura,

Gilberto Silva a excellent midfielder!? Come on! Gimme a break. Is it maybe because you supporte Atletico Mineiro (Gilberto's former club before arsenal) that you saying that!? Gilberto is ok... But there are much better players for Dunga to play on that position. But since Luiz Scolari it seems to me that brazilian coaches see stubbornness as a good quality.
I'm brazilian and I say that this brazilian squad is not grat in any sense. Back four are ok. Midfield is also ok showing some glimpses of creativity with Kaka, but a bit shaky at times. Robinho doesnt convince me neither does Luis Fabiano.
HOWEVER, Brazil won 1994 WC with an average at most team. They can repeat that next year.

33 - But he is an excellent defensive midfielder. I know there are more creative players and more technically gifted players to play in his position, but nobody as good defensively as him, I can see Hernanes playing his position but not being able to mark Riquelme(who got nullified) in a Brazil-Argentina. Dunga did good getting rid of Josue, but he needs defensiveness in the midfield and Gilberto provides that.

Robinho's living his hype as "Next Pele" until today and while I agree with you about Luis Fabiano, he has been scoring, what Pato doesn't do when he gets playing time.

Today's game was terrible, and if things continue that way by the time Brazil meets the United States, I'll be forced to agree with everybody else here that Brazil won't stand a chance against Spain.

thats ok. brasil has been written of numerous times before. just remember the real deal is next year copa do mundo!

Hi tim, i would like to ask Why does brazil overlook on diego who is one of the best midfielders in the world. Its stunning to see the likes of elano and baptitsta picked ahead of diego. He took bremen to final single handedly ,he has had the big move this season. But why is he so underrated for brazil? Also who do you think will be brazil' ronaldo or romario for the next worldcup?

I have the benefit of writing this after watching Brazil stagger over the line against Egypt. Admittedly Egypt looked lively and I am looking forward to seeing them again, that doesn't take away from the fact that Brazil looked like Bournemouth at the back though!!
Who was their left back?? Blimey, terrible.
Lucio looked lumbering at best and Alves really hasn't even been told he's a left back. Bring on Brazil next summer I say.

blueboyrob wrote:
Spain will cruise it.

Hit the nail on the head mate.
Brazil and Italy may be a hard obstacle- but Spain will beat them.

Brazil are the masters at the counter, but Spain just will not let them have the ball. Italy are very good too, but should also be beatable material for Spain. Confed Cup for them then.

galoucura wrote:
11 - Too much firepower.

Take Alonso(who's just average)


Absolute rubbish. Why have Real Madrid been eying him up (even though he is not going anywhere- he's staying with us). Bonkers comment.

At 08:36am on 16 Jun 2009, RONALDOMILESAHEAD wrote:
Hi tim, i would like to ask Why does brazil overlook on diego who is one of the best midfielders in the world. Its stunning to see the likes of elano and baptitsta picked ahead of diego. He took bremen to final single handedly ,he has had the big move this season. But why is he so underrated for brazil? Also who do you think will be brazil' ronaldo or romario for the next worldcup?

Pretty good point actually. Elano hasn't been getting regular games but he is still ahead of one of the finest playmakers in the game in Diego. If he had been there for Bremen in the UEFA Cup Final rather than get himself suspended Bremen would have looked a different side. This underlines his importance, showing why he has moved to Juve. He is a top, top player. Should get more recognition in the Brazil national team I reckon.

@ 39: Why Diego doesn't get many games? Dunga is a cautious manager. I would like to compare him to Benitez, except Benitez is more about organisation and controlling space.

They both play a similar formation but Dunga insists of two defensive midfielders when it is apparent Brazil are a team who need fluidity, flexibility therefore technical players. He may not have those players at his disposal hence the approach. It was apparent Kaka and Alves were alone in the match v Egypt. Diego could easily play loosely on the right but Dunga seems afraid of allowing too much room to the opposition.

38 - By average I mean he is decent to play for Liverpool, but is he the star of the team? Is he another Steven Gerrard? Another Fernando Torres? Or are these players better?

39 - I'd say Diego can't get many games because when he played for Brazil, he didn't do much, while Elano played most Dunga games and his image is even associated with him. I wouldn't drop a defensive midfielder, but I'd have Ramires in the place of Melo or Gilberto.

Some people mention Argentina is going through tough spell and I agree they are. But somebody said Brasil is going through a good spell, I do not think so. They just been quite lucky, and I think Mr.Vickery will tell you that as well. But now the Conf Cup, I enjoy watching this tourney it is something refreshing and entertaining. FIFA claims this is the second most important tourney and I have to laugh at that. I will put it #5, behind the WC,Euro,Copa America,African Cup of Nations etc. I recall the 2005 Conf Cup Final like it was yesterday. Being Argentine I do not take much from this game. Because prior to that a couple weeks before Argentine took apart Brasil in a WCQ 3-1. Then Brasil returned the favor to us in the final. This tourney does not show much, because Argentina played much much better then Brasil in the WC a year later. I still believe they were the best side in that Cup, a lot like Brasil of 82. It does not show much, because it does not matter how you play a year or 2 years from the WC, it is how you play at the WC. The 2002 Argentina team in the WC played horrible and was a bit unlucky. But during the WCQ they went in with 4 or 5 games to spare. They were the favorites, peeking to early will come back and bite you in the but. So the teams that are doing great now, does not translate to what they will do next year. Also keeps this in mind, that no European side has won a WC outside of Europe. Back to this tourney, I will really enjoy watching a Brasil-Spain meeting in the second round which we just may see.

Rather than complain that Gilberto was yet again in the team, I was wondering Tim are we probably likely to see him in the setup until after 2010 World Cup? The sooner they get rid of him the better but we might as well get realistic so we're not let down each and everytime we see the teamsheet.

Another question Tim - how did Elano reach such a high level of prestige in Brazil and with Dunga. I admit he's a talented player but seems to be one of the first names on the teamsheet - wouldn't they be better suited with someone a bit more dynamic?

Hi Tim.

This is my first post on your blog, however i have been reading for some time as I have a real fascination for South American football.

I have just read in the news that my team, Aston Villa will now be playing a mexican team, Atlante,(Celtic have dropped out) in a pre season friendly tournament, the Peace cup. Apparently they are CONCACAF Champions League holders. Do you know much about them? Any tips on who to look out for?

Its been a very long time since Villa have played anyone from South America so Im quite excited about this. Last time didnt go so well. I think we played Penarol in 1982 after winning the European Cup and got taught a lesson by all accounts!

Want to catch a live Copa Liberatores game? Tonight at 23.15 on Setanta Sports 2 Nacional vs Palmeiras in the quater final second leg clash.From the Estadio Centenario in Montrvideo the first leg ended in a 1-1 draw.

Wel I stayed up to watch the match from Estadio Centenario,high drama for this second leg tie. Luxemburgo's Palmerios had to get a result as away goals count and the first leg ended in 1-1.

Both sides squanderd chances.the highly ratted Keirrson did not really feature we did not see wonderkid Marquinhos.The two best chances fellin the last six minutes no 24 Obino an on loan player missed a glorious chance for a headed goal.Less than a minute later down the other end Garcia was equally guilty of a good chance to put the match to bed.


Then there was some serious time wasting appeal for a penalty and some Nacional dubious substitution even the goalkeepers were up for it. When the final whistle finally came the Centenario errupted into celebration.

The first time since 1988 that Nacional had reached a semi final of the Copa Libertores.


I have heard of yo yo managers but have Boca sacked Ischia or not?

Well done Nacional. Pretty sure that this signifies the start of the resurgence in Uruguayan football, and we will be deserving World Cup winners in 2010. Maybe 2014 at a push.

Anyway - does anybody know the vague dates of the semi-final and final matches?

This english obsesion with spain is in my opinion explainable, they won the Euro. However to even begin to suggest they are heads and shoulders above any of the stellar teams is blinkered to say the least. In any case though they crumbled Holland showed by far the best form in the Euro.

Spain showed an utter lack of imagination against an iraq team that essetially failed to turn up at the game. People speak of Brazil's old selection problems, adriano and ronaldo played the same role, as did Kaka, Ronaldinho, Robinho. Likewise Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas play the same role, iniesta the only one with enough individual flair to take players on, the other two are (incredible as they maybe at it) simply passers of the ball and i'm an arsenal fan. Without Senna (who is Brazilian in any case) and iniesta they are incredibly underpowered, and so this competition won't reflect their true potential.

Brazil lack stars, so? Brazil have technical players from defence up, the back line would do a better job of midfield play than that of many top national teams. And the phisicality so lacking in the spain team is in abundance in Brazil's squad. Too many people base their knowledge of players on pro evo and fifa and speak in ignorance of players that have yet to make the switch to Europe and are thus rendered underpowered in such games. Every player in this Brazil team has showed better close control than almost all counterparts, spains teamare good when passing at pace, brazil can play at a stand still and rip you to bits, as can argentina and many other south american teams, its a different philosophy.

the final point however in these discussions is that they are pointless, at that level teams aren't better than one another generally, it depends on the day, even when on paper there is an apparent gulf. Brazil,Spain OR Italy can win it, and none would surprise me.

44 - Mexico is as south-american as Portugal is eartern-european. There are few south-americans playing there, though.

49- When has Mexico been part of South America?

My correction*. Did not read the post correctly.

Forgive me for asking a silly question but why is england not in the confed seen as all the other big names are there, they all have had to play matches that will get them to the world cup so why not us. The con fed cup also shows us that teams like Egyt and Brazil are a level above us despite us having some excellant players (IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE) but when they have to play together for england they just do not flow together like the big clubs in the confed.
Is it me or is there no mention about the confed except for 302 on freeview and sky probably does a report on it but mainstream news does not show anything.

Re 46 - Ischia has left Boca Juniors by 'mutual consent'????!!! He was due to stay until the end of the season - 2 fixtures away but after the defeat at Indpendiente (3-0) he departed earlier in the week. Alfio Basile takes charge for the 2nd time within the next week or so.

52 - Confederations cup is just for those who won major tournaments dating from the last confederations cup. So that's Italy for being World Champions, Brazil for being south-american champions, Spain for being european champions, etc.

Not all the big names are there, just those three.

The winner of the confederations cup should get automatic qualification to the world cup - that would ensure it was a top tournament