´óÏó´«Ã½

What do you think of the Keirrison deal to Barcelona? Is it too soon a move? You said previously that he had to develop some more and I think Barca will send him out on loan.

Also, do you think Henrique will perform well for Barcelona after his loan at Bayern Leverkusen? I remember you saying good things about Henrique and am curious as to what you think now.

What is all the fuss about South American football?





..... amazing tickertape reception, hailstones, a saved penalty, a disputed winner, post match pitch invasions (what is in the water over there as how do the fans manage to climb over the huges fences behind the goals!), excellent fumble and dropping of championship trophy, fireworks.....Congrats to Velez.

Tim, goo blog as always. Alot better than some other, opinion based blogs on the ´óÏó´«Ã½.

Does the fact that there are two finals, a home and away leg, spoil the occassion? Would it not be better for there to be one final at a neutral venue decided pre-tournament?? Or is there a reason for this in south America?

Also, I have not heard much about River Plate for a while. Afew years ago I think they were at the top in Argentina, but now there seems to be little mentioned about them. Woulld be grateful for any info.

Cheers

I always thought Ramires looked sub-standard in the Confedarations Cup. He didn't strike me as someone who should be in the Brazil starting 11 ..

as I said before, Maicon and Alves would always be my 2 starters before Ramires or Elano.. in saying that I haven't seen Ramires at club level so my argument may be a load of tosh..

Thoughts on Melo's possible transfer to Arsenal? Will he do a good job for us like GILberto?

Tim you just failed to mention again an incident that has been totally ignored on your blogs so far. The two decent Mexican teams that reached the semi-finals this year were forced to withdraw by the South Americans due to the swine flue outbreak, perhaps this is one of the many factors that added to the mediocrity of this years competition.

Great blog as usual.

Would like to ask your opinion on another matter, perhaps you've talked about this in the past on the odd week when I haven't read for one reason or another:

There's been speculation recently (which has admittedly died down a bit at present) about the young Brazilian Douglas replacing Cristiano Ronaldo at Manchester United. How do you think the two players compare? Is Douglas capable of filling Ronaldo's shoes? Finally, is it the right time for him to move?

Thanks very much, always good timing to release this on a Monday morning!

Estudiantes could have problems with Kleber especially as international right back Angeleri is injured.Cruzeiro are a good side as are la pincha but hardly brillaint.Andujar is Maradonas no 1 keeper and the defence even without Angeleri should be solid but without his projections in attack.Veron is very important but his reserve 07 World youth champion Matias Sanchez is a good player.Boselli and Gata Fernandez will also test Cruzeiros defence.Another Argentina-Brasil final with all the fun that is will go with it.Already the tricks have started as the Brasilians are asking Conmebol to pospone or change the first leg from La Plata because of swine flu which is at epidemic levels here but is not unknown in Belo Horizonte either.

Tim - any chance of you making a quick call to the deputy controller of the Beeb and getting them to stick the game on ´óÏó´«Ã½3???!! I'll gladly pay my licence fee.

A great shame that Setanta has gone down the toilet (however bad their coverage was!) looks like we'll be at the mercy of the web feeds to catch the game.

Tim, fantastic read as usual. I Just wondered if you had any information regarding the Colombian player who shot dead a fan after being called "maleta" which mean a lousy player apprentley.
I have called players a whole lot worse that in the past and am thankful I've never been shot!

Good blog. But could somebody answer me something please, bearing in mind I don't watch much South American football. Is Juan Sebastian Veron any good anymore? By the sound of it he is a bit a midfield linchpin, but I find it hard to reconcile this with what I know of him when he played in Europe. Not that it greatly matters or anything, but I would be interested to know.

Tim,

Do none of the clubs in South America insist on claiming percentages of future transfers of players?
Just seeing the likes of Kaka, Diego and Tevez moving on for big money does make me wonder if their original clubs get the recognition they deserve for nurturing these talents?

Great blog as always. Two points:

First of all surprised at how few read well - every time you ask people to comment on this blog here, and send you emails about other matters, and every time they still post questions here. ;)

Secondly and more importantly, I wanted to remark that I particularly enjoy your blog as it is less... shall we say political? You focus on the game, not on the "characters" of the game, and that's far more interesting a read for me than "X says Y and Y says B" all the time.

Thanks for a great read every week.

Morning Tim,

Great blog as usual.

Sunderland have been linked with two South American players playing in Mexico, Paulo Da Silva and Humberto Suazo. Can you please let me know a bit more about the players, if you think they have what it takes to succeed in the Premier League and what you think they are really worth?

I only know very little information on either player, Suazo was world's top scorer in 2006, Da Silva has 50+ caps for Paraguay.

Tim,
Is Kaka worth the money paid by Real Madrid?
I'm of the opinion that he's a very good player but he comes across as a player who doesn't have the tackling ability, stamina and strength of a Steven Gerrard, and doesn't have the dribbling skills of Messi, and neither does he have the set-piece ability of C. Ronaldo. Bearing this in mind, he seems to have a very specific role in the 'hole' and if the team doesn't play to this strength, or if there is little movement up front then he is somewhat nullified. Should he then be worth over £50m? I'm not so sure.

Andy Thomas

Auqakuh1123 - if you want a question answering, it's best to put it here because out of all of those sent to Tim he can only answer 2 in the actual blog. Let's not be....shall we say pedantic?!

#15

I would say in the crazy world football is at the moment, then yes, he is worth the money.

I think that he has a bit of all of the players that you mentioned, which makes him so special.

He is certainly faster than Gerrard and Messi, and is a better passer than all 3 players.

When Man City are offering £45M for John Terry, I think it is safe to say Kaka is worth £50M - All my opinion of course

Ramires is one of the worst players i've ever seen make it to the brazil team i personally think i'm better than him.

Just want to ask what you think of Eden Hazard, the young belgian attacking midfielder who plays for Lille. He's a good prospect, which he showed when he tormented Fabio Grosso having come on as a substitute. He's part of a talent new generation of belgians which include Vermaelen, Dembele, Fellaini, Defour etc

thanks

zzz

Me and Julio down by the school yard!

Sunderland have been linked with two South American players playing in Mexico, Paulo Da Silva and Humberto Suazo. Can you please let me know a bit more about the players, if you think they have what it takes to succeed in the Premier League and what you think they are really worth?

I have seen Da Silva play a number of times for Toluca. He has certainly been their most influential player at centre-back, strong in the air and dangerous at set-pieces coming forward. Quite a combative player. I don't suppose his physicality will stand out in the Premier League though.

Suazo has been off and on - he has had periods where he scores lots of goals, but I don't think the last tournament was one of them, but I haven't seen him as much. I think Rodallega (who went to Wigan I think) is a better prospect.

Sorry mate - couldn't be more wrong. Suazo scored 9 in fifteen games for an average Monterrey side in the last tournament.

pikolinforpresident - Like the reference "!!!" !!!

The finals of the Copa Libertadores will be spectacular. Cruzeiro have shown they have what it takes to lift the Copa Libertadores title when they come up against Estudiantes in the final.

Klebber, undoubtedly, is one of Cruzeiros best players, having scored almost 1 goal per game this year will be a threat to Estudiantes.

Juan Sebastian Veron, recently crowned South American Footballer of the year, has all the experience to trouble Cruzeiro.

I have never been so interested in South American Football!!! I dont get the game where I live. Does anyone know where I can stream the game legally and in HD quality?

Does the fact that there are two finals, a home and away leg, spoil the occassion? Would it not be better for there to be one final at a neutral venue decided pre-tournament?? Or is there a reason for this in south America?

-----------

It's about money really. Unlike clubs mike Man U, Barca, Real and Arsenal, the fans of clubs like Cruzerio and Estud in general can not afford to travel internationally for a big final. This way each club can have a big payday and perfrom in a stadium where the fans actually care about the result.

Hello Tim,

Do you think that John Terry will even join Man City? ok, chelsea have stated the fee they expect from City, but surely he won't want to join City!? The only way i think he will join them is if city give him a huge wage (because they've got the cash) but i see it as baing extremly unlikely because he is happy there. But Ancelloti won't put him up for sale, will he?

@ 15: £50m is too much for any player but Kaka can be very effective but even more in a technical gifted side and one with good movement. His strength is fantastic and can make fantastic bursting runs. He along with Alves, looked the technically best players for a functional Brazil side.

So Ronaldo v. Veron in the final... Excellent - 2 of my favourite S American players on the same pitch..

I saw Boca v Estudiantes at La Bombonera in 2006 and Veron was running things for Estudiantes against his old club - pure class.

Boca won 2-0 that day and Gago was immense for Boca, he was absolutely everywhere at all times, the perfect holding midfielder. I'm surprised I'm not hearing Gago being touted around as he must be surplus to requirements at Madrid now? There are loads of teams looking for combative midfielders at the moment and I've not heard his name mentioned once. Whats gone wrong with him Tim - didn't Argentina give him his debut before he made his Boca debut or am I thinking about someone else?

And your photo up there looks like a still from 'Raw Meat XI'. Very dodgy indeed...

And why aren't spaces appearing. After. Full. Stops.

So that's where Veron has scuttled off to.

Glad to hear that he's making a contribution.

He stunk during his time in Europe.

I have never been so interested in South American Football!!! I dont get the game where I live. Does anyone know where I can stream the game legally and in HD quality?

-----------

Its not HD quality but ive been watching the copa on bet365 live streaming, obviously u have to join up 1st but the commentrys in english and the quality is also very good.

Tim your right about Veron being so important im pretty sure it was his quick thinking that got them the goal agaisnt nacional in the 1st leg of the semi-finals. As soon as he went off they looked pretty poor.

Imo i think Cruzeiro will win but it wil be close.

26- What does John Terry have do with this article or South American soccer in general?

28- Ronaldo? He plays for Corinthians (Sao Paolo), not Cruzeiro (Belo Horizonte).

30- Veron was a massive success in Italy. The premier League is not the be all and end all in Europe so please refrain from silly sweeping statements without observing the player directly.

28- Ronaldo? He plays for Corinthians (Sao Paolo), not Cruzeiro (Belo Horizonte).

D'OH - Of course, I'm going back a few years when he played for Cruzeiro!

Another player I will be keen to see in the final is little Gata Fernandez. He's no kid anymore but neither is he old but somehow has managed to play for River, Racing Club, San Lorenzo and now Estudiantes in between spells with Moterrey. He has flair and hopefully helps Veron with creating chances.

"There's been speculation recently (which has admittedly died down a bit at present) about the young Brazilian Douglas replacing Cristiano Ronaldo at Manchester United. How do you think the two players compare? Is Douglas capable of filling Ronaldo's shoes? Finally, is it the right time for him to move?"

Costa is not even a regular in Grêmio's starting XI. He's certainly not ready to be a replacement for the best player in PL. He's only 18 after all.

And he's a very, very skillful attacking midfielder, very incisive, that has been compared a lot to Ronaldinho, having a similar style and playing in a similar position. But that's exactly how Anderson was when he started his career at the same club. If he goes to Man Utd, Ferguson would likely just do the same he's doing with Anderson.

It's going to be a great final. Tim, what do you make of Nacional, the team eliminated by Estudiantes in the semis? I was amazed to see that in the second leg one of their best players Lodeiro was relegated to the subs bench and only brought on in the second half. Any deeper reason for this, or was it simply the fact that he was carrying a slight knock?

I thought the onus was on Nacional to take the game to the Pinchas from minute one, so leaving out Lodeiro seemed strange to me particularly as he looked ok in the second half.

Thanks.

Personally, I hope Estudiantes, and Veron in particular, emerge victorious. Veron doesn't have his foes to seek in the Argentinian game, which I have to admit I have never fully understood (especially after all this time, if it is indeed mainly due to WC1998?) His winning Player of the Year made me raise a smile, yet I still heard him being booed at home games for the national team this year (?!)

Sure he aint too bothered right enough, even less so if he picks up a winner's medal.

Looking forward to hearing Tim's views on the title decider... was hoping against expectation that Huracan would triumph. Alas...

Hunk4Hire?

You mental?

I wouldn't call it Brazil against Argentina.

After all, I'm Brazilian and I want Estudiantes to win. BADLY.

Whoever wins (hopefully it will be Veron!!! I mean, hopefully it will be Estudiantes!!!), the 50th Copa Santander Libertadores will be remembered, imho, for the chaos surrounding the "withdrawal" of the Mexican teams in the round of 16 and CONMEBOL deciding to award Nacional and SPFC a place in the quarterfinals without playing any matches. Can anyone imagine something like that happening in the Europa League or the UEFA Champions' League? I certainly can not.
Tim says the Mexicans withdraw, but CONMEBOL's decision from a couple of weeks ago of giving the Mexican teams two additional places for next season's edition suggests -imho- either desperation for the Mexican TV money, and/or CONMEBOL admitting they handed the affair inadequately.

Really looking forward to this match.

When I was a kid, curly-haired Alex Sabella of Leeds Utd was always a rare soccer star sticker - needed him for the set of Leeds and did a playground swap involving 3 other stickers and my tuck shop money if I remember rightly.

When I saw Sabella had been appointed manager of Estudiantes a few months ago, and this portly, bald-headed old man walked out, I wasn't even sure if it was the same Alez Sabella! - First time I'd seen him since the late 70's soccer star collection - unrecognisable!

What an excellent job he's doong at Estudiantes though. Like Cappa at Huracan, how are some managers able to turn things around so quickly, noit just results but the style of play aswell. Is it just luck? Will it last?

Hats off to Veron. I know it's more complicated (and political) than it appears (I think he has his sights set on being a director/ president of Estudiantes one day), but any player who returns to his home-town club out of love for the club, when he could be earning much more money elsewhere, deserves respect.

A couple of English friends came to Argentina last October and went to Boca v Estudiantes (1-3) - they wanted to see Riquelme in action and were quite excited about it, but left drooling over Veron - didn't realise he was that good was general opinion.

I can only guess that Ferguson bought Veron because he wanted to change the system away from 4-4-2, and play with one up in Europe, with Veron playing behind the striker (they hadn't done well in Europe in the seasons previous to his purchase), but players like Keane & Beckham, for example, failed to adapt to this style of play, just as much as Veron failed to adapt to English football? So, then Ferguson just abandoned the idea?

But over time, Ferguson has evolved and changed along with the rest of football,. moving away from 4-4-2. Maybe Veron would do well in the current Man U side?

Two comments:I reckon Kleber will be the difference between the two teams in the Libertadores final, he´s been playing better and better this year.I really can´t understand how Palmeiras let him go, they could be in the final now if they had kept him.
Secondly, I think the only team in Europe that Keirrison stands a chance with is Barca.He depends on getting the ball in front of goal,he can´t create chances himself, and that´s what Barca will be able to do for him.But he disappointed me in his last few months at Palmeiras...

Hi Tim

I was wondering where you stand on the Maicon vs Alves debate - as an Inter fan I know where I clearly stand, and I think Maicon's ability to do that Cafu-esque running forward is second to none in world football at the moment, but people outside of Italy seem to really rave over Alves as by far the best (despite Dunga picking Maicon, from what I understand, more often ahead of Alves) - so it'd be quite good to get a very informed opinion.

Cheers

In the true Copa dos Libertadores is not so important to Brazilians as their national competitions, Campeonato Brasileiro (Brasileirão) and Copa do Brasil. These competitions atract more TV audience and 'torcedores' to stadiums. Even the name "Libertadores" are not relative to Brazil history. The "libertadores" heroes are only heroes of the Hispanic America (the real Latin America). They have nothing to do with Brazil's Independence or heroes. Those final games of Libertadores are interest to Cruzeiro torcedores, basically. A final of Copa do Brasil (like Corinthians x Internacional) have more national interest.

The real target of Cruzeiro is the worldwide interclubs title in Japan.

In the true Copa dos Libertadores is not so important to Brazilians as their national competitions, Campeonato Brasileiro (Brasileirao) and Copa do Brasil. These competitions atract more TV audience and 'torcedores' to stadiums. Even the name "Libertadores" are not relative to Brazil history. The "libertadores" heroes are only heroes of the Hispanic America (the real Latin America). They have nothing to do with Brazil's Independence or heroes. Those final games of Libertadores are interest to Cruzeiro torcedores, basically. A final of Copa do Brasil (like Corinthians x Internacional) have more national interest.

The real target of Cruzeiro is the worldwide interclubs title in Japan.

48 - Wrong, wrong, wrong.

First, winning the Libertadores is much MORE prestigious than the Copa do Brasil. Even the media only talks about Copa do Brasil as a "easy way into Libertadores". If you don't believe then look at the attendances(those of Libertadores is way bigger than Copa do Brasil, or even the Brasileirao)

Second, it is true that Bolivar has nothing to do with Brazil independence, but, "the real latin america"? Wow. I'm impressed at how we are hated by the REST of the latin-americans.

Third, there lot's of talk about the World Clubs Cup in December. But it is not the real target, they would be playing their heart if winning the Libertadores wouldn't guarantee a place in that competition.

Hi Tim,

You mention Juan Sebastien Veron. I caught an Estudiantes game on the telly the other week and he seems to be having a bit of an Indian summer now that he's back in his homeland. My question is, where did it all go wrong for him in Europe do you think? I remember watching him when he played for Lazio and he was simply sublime - pulling all the strings from midfield in the "hole" position and running the show. He could win matches singlehandedly and he was even compared to Zidane, which at that time wasn't too farfetched in my opinion.

Then he went to Manchester United where I thought he did ok in his first season but then came the fateful move to Chelsea that ruined him as he fell victim to Ranieri's "Tinkerman" regime and spent more time on the bench than on the pitch it seemed. Was it a case of the player's attitude or the fact that he never adapted to the more physical and fast-paced nature of the English game like many Latin American players? It seems this is a phenomenon that isn't limited to Veron alone - Diego Forlan, Kleberson, Pizarro etc all tried and failed in the Premiership.

However, on the other hand you have players like Tevez and Mascherano who seem to take to the English game like a duck to water. What's your assessment on what South American players need to do in order to make the transition to the Premiership? Obviously the pace and physicality of the game is a major factor but what about other factors such as language and the weather for example?

About Veron: seems like every South American player Man Utd bought failed there; Kleberson and Forlan are other examples. So, it can't be only their fault.

Sure, there are difficulties of adaptation, and the players own personalities, but overall Ferguson seems to demand them to change their style too much to suit his needs instead of simply either using what they have already shown or simply sign a player that already has them; Anderson, who begun his career as a left-winger in Ronaldinho style and is now being molded to become the next Paul Scholes is a good example.

I think the big issue with Veron in Europe is that he had quite a bit of success with Lazio but then from there things did not quite go to plan. I wouldn't say he flopped over here but rather didn't live up to his considerable potential.

Unfortunately for Veron he also had some very untimely injuries in his career. After signing for Chelsea at the start of the Abramovich era he put in some impressive performances but then had a quite serious injury on his ankle i believe. He then missed most of the rest of the season and when he returned other players had established themselves in the team and he found it hard to get back into the team. Of course after this season he was sent out on loan to Inter and sort of forgotten about at Chelsea.

I think now that he is back with his home town club, Estudientes, he has recovered some of the joys of football that he lost over in Europe where the almost constant criticism from the press must have affected him to a certain degree. He is now back enjoying football at the club where his heart is and i think that this may have something to do with his impressive performances over the past few seasons. Also he now realises that his career is drawing to a close and is now trying to make the most out of the time he has left and as such training harder than ever before.

Good blog Tim. Your focus on the game is truly remarkable. Thanks.




Dr. Cajetan Coelho

Tim you've mentioned before that you dislike many South American clubs selling their talented young players too early on in their careers. I'll admitt that this does have its downsides and many players struggle to live up to their potential abroad - Thiago Neves and Ever Banega are just two of the more recent examples - but there are more positive effects of this as well.

The fact that so many decent players are sold means that the next generation are given the chance to break into the team and make a name for themselves. No doubt many of them would have done so in their own time but it certainly helps. For example would Ever Banega have made such an impact in the Boca side if Fernando Gago had been kept for a couple more seasons, i doubt it. The same could be said of many other players.

I think that this factor plays a huge role in the consistent high level of quality from the national teams of brazil and argentina (over years/decades not neccassarily the past year or two) as it gives the younger generations an huge opportunity. This is simply not the case over in Europe. Whilst no criticism it is hard to see any youth team player over the past ten years getting the opportunity to replace players like Maldini, Scholes, Giggs etc. They are never given a real opportunity and have to content themselves with playing reserve team football or by going on loan to a lesser club. This way younger players in Europe are never quite given the same opportunity to prove themselves as in South America and this may have something to do with the lack of quality coming through many European national teams.

Anyway, i was just wondering what your thoughts were on the more positive sides of the selling culture in South America.

Thanks for your article Tim.

I follow the news from back home, but for some reason I wasn't aware of who were the finalists. Perhaps because there is no SPFC this time :(

Re Veron. I used to hear so much about him, but the few times I saw him playing for Man U or Chelsea, he never impressed me. If indeed he was that brilliant in Lazio it's great that he found his old form at Estudiantes.

I look forward to seeing more about Kleber. If he does half of what Ronaldo used to do with the blue shirt, there's no stopping the cup coming to Brazil again.

It seems correct to say that the two sides that achieve the best form in the last stages of the competition gain a place in the final and not necessarily the best teams in Latin America. The outcome of the two final matches is anyone's guess though, it's a toss of a coin.

30- I have always been a fan of Juan Sebastian Veron. He wasn't a flop in Europe. In 2000, Veron was the driving force for Lazio as they captured the scudetto, the Coppa Italia and the Italian Super Cup.


31- Inorder to get the bet365 stream you will have to deposit something like $20 with them against future bets.

I have found a very interesting site omnisport.tv. You get what you pay for-HD streaming,commentary,no ads,no betting and its legal!! I will be streaming the finals on this site.!!

TV coverage of Livertadores is available free via sattelite if you have a dish that can point to 13 E Hotbird. Any dedicated South American soccer fan should consider investing in a motorised dish for this and coverage of other South American soccer. Its low cost and self assembly is possible. If not, get ur local satellite dealer to do it. there are no subscriptions of course so just a one off capital investment.

See daily soccer listings on satellite on

and dont forget how good he was in Sampdoria and Parma! I think the problem was that during his spell in the UK he had bad back trouble. This things happen.

Hi there Tim

I was wondering about Luis Fabiano and wanted to ask why he was overlooked for such a long period of time? Was it a case of Ronaldo keeping other strikers out of the side or because he was simply a late bloomer?

For me personally i seem to remember Luis Fabiano as sort of hit and miss at clubs he has been at. I think he joined a French club quite early on in his career and it didn't work out there so he retrurned to Brazil.

He then had a fantastic time at Sao Paulo before Porto bought him after their Champions league triumph. Its is fair to say that things didn't go well there for him but then also it didn't for Diego either. After Sevilla sold Baptista i was somewhat shocked that they moved for Fabiano to replace him.

During his first few seasons he was not fantastic and was perhaps in the shadow of Kanoute but then Kanoute had an injury and he stepped up to the plate and for the past few seasons he has not stopped scoring.

I guess he might have been overlooked for a while which is strange to see now as he is one of the few brazilian strikers that i think are truly international quality and good enough for the team. It is strange to think that a team so renown for their attacking play now have so very few strikers playing for top quality sides in Europe.

The play Brazil are playing under Dunga with the single striker and a few attacking midfielders, i only see this system working is with a bigger stronger striker who is able to hold his own without support and make his presence felt for headers from crosses. Luis Fabiano is one of very few brazilian strikers how can actually do this along with Julio Baptista (who doesn't look the same players after leaving Sevilla) and Adriano (if he can sort out his issues and get back to playing the sort of football we all know he can do) - and i think Fabiano is one of, if not the, most important player for brazil because there aren't too many decent alternatives available.

I think this is why Pato didn't play too much football at the confederations cup. No doubt he is a truly fantastic footballer with a great future ahead of him but at the moment he does not really fit into brazils tactical system and Dunga doesn't strike me as the sort of man to change his whole team to suit one player - he will leave out 'better players' to get a better team.

Hi tim, just wondering what your opinion is on some of the few young brazilians that to my knowledge, havent been linked with a move to europe. One in particular was alex teixiera, my friend works in brazil and says he has heard big things about this kid from vasco, also there are dentinho and marquinhos, have any of these lot been considered for the right flank? surely somebody with a bit more trickery would have the ability to hold the ball up for maicon or alves to break into the overlap as opposed to when ive seen ramires losing the ball with a poor touch many a time? i realise ramires has impressed at club level but he doesnt seem the kind of player who would fit into a world cup winning squad.
On the previous posters keirrison note, as a liverpool fan its sad to see yet another talented s.american youngster slip through our fingers, we had scouted this kid over a year ago, but just as happened with aguero to athletico, he's gone to spain. we obviously have the scouting infrastructure in place down there, why dont we ever sign any of these guys?

Tim I asked you on Saturday about 2 players,Mauro Boselli and Wellington Paulista and would they make the grade in European football.

You said no nothing special fairly mediocre,but I feel the pressure on them as their team's top goal scorers to perform for the watching scouts. Sadly no Setanta so wil have to endure Justin tv I hate streaming poor picture and sound quality not to mention screen freeze.Still beggars cant be chosers.I know that there was some doubt as to the Argentinan leg as severe Swine Flu outbreak some 44 people have died.After health assurances it will go ahead 0.30am Thursday morning look forward to it.

Winners of the 50th Copa Liberatores will qualify for the FIFA World Club Cup in December 9-19 in U.A.E. Where they could well face Barcelona a mouth watering prospect for any S.American side,shame it isn't my team Boca.

So that's where Veron has scuttled off to.

Glad to hear that he's making a contribution.

He stunk during his time in Europe
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
He was great at Sampdoria Parma Lazio and Inter Milan.Not his fault that Fergie decided to shunt a wonderful central midfielder out on the right side of midfield.Injuries at Chelsea didnt help either!

All these clowns talking of "la Brujitas" "failure"in europe when he was sensational in Italy when Serie A was the best.He went to Manchester United for the "guita" as well as Chesea when he certainly made enough to let him return to the love of his life where his lifetime ambition of acheiveing what "la Bruja Veron acheived in the sixties.La Bruja Juan Ramon is the father of La brujita Juan Sebastian

[48. At 11:39pm on 06 Jul 2009, edson146 wrote:]

No, Tim. Some from Brazilian journalists desire that. Some Brazilians football journalists are 'argentinófilos'. Despite all the glory of Brazilian football they try to show argentines as "superiors". Is a kind of neoracism. They see the "european-fascism-emulation" ideology that run in Argentine and try to copy it. Brazilian are caboclos (or pardos), mulatos and pretos (blacks) in the most, so this is not so "inspirational" like the "whitening" pose of some argentines. What keep the salaries of Brazil football is the long Brasileirao. The Copa do Brasil final (Corinthians x Internacional) had more audience than the so 'hyped' semifinal of Libertadores. I bet the Libertadores finals won't have equal audience.

There is very much propaganda around Libertadores, in Brazil.
(sorry about my broken English).

Nil-nil first leg in Argentina, Cruzeiro's keeper Fabio outstanding.

Two hours of pre-match build up to endure before the game,I hope ESPN UK get the Copa Liberatores rights as I hate streaming,Yes those Sky customers will have to find another £9 a month for ESPN UK.us Virgin Media are waiting to find out as Setanta was part of our Virgin Package.

The best chances fell to Estudiantes.and Veron in particular first half two good chances a curling free kick that Fabio pushed out with his finger tips. Then just before half time a excellent shot by Juan Sebstian that Fabio had to stretch and push out great reflex action. Definitely my MOM as for the two top goal scorers MIA.

61 It appaears to be that you are the racist caught up in some sort of anti Argentina lunacy.Maybe you might try to explain what in Gods name is European-fascism-emulation.I think that maybe its you who have the sad problem.The fact is Brasil has a glorious futbol school which many people in Argentina prefer.I dont nor does anyone else I know consider these people African-faccists-emulators.We too have a glorious futbol school based on our passing game which obviously some people in Brasil like.Get a life

Correct me if I am wrong but there is no coverage of last nights Libertadores final on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ website?

What is the point in Tim Vickery's Blog (which is very good by the way) if you don't follow up with some kind of report??? You don't even have the final score on your results page?!!!!

Alex Sabella only arrived at Sheffield United because we couldn't afford Maradona. We couldn't quite stump up the £200,000 so we paid £160,000 to River Plate for Sabella. I have chatted to a few people who remember watching him and unfortunately he was 'too' good for the sheffield united team back then. His vision and creativity was so good that other players were not capable of getting into the right positions in time. His passing was impeccable as well but it was wasted in that team...At least he made a good name for himself at Leeds United.

Congrats to Alex Sabella!!!

I quite enjoyed the tough game last night for a 0-0 but some questions are really bugging me.....

Why ohhh why did the Brasilian league organise a big game at the same time at the Libertadores final? As Corinthians thumped Flu with a fantastic Ronaldo hatrick, this organisation or lack of is just typical of this country.

Why ohh why is the Libertadores final and the Brasil cup final a few weeks ago so early in the current season? Just doesnt make sense am afraid !! But maybe once a gringo I am always a gringo.... :)

Am sure with some changes to have a similar ''product'' with the European leagues and Champions league it would be much better here.....

As for the tifosi last night at the start of the game, outstanding......

Post 71, if you bothered to look post 68 IanWalforfd had given the score nil-nil.I just did what I have been doing for months give a brief resume of the match.

The two hour build up only boring as I have only knew a few words of Spanish the los of Setanta i kenly felt.Look forward to the return leg at in Brazil next week,winner takes all.

74 - I think he meant that ´óÏó´«Ã½ should have anything written about the game instead of waiting people to post it.

70 - You couldn't have said better. I agree 100%.

73 - I think most, but not all, South-American Leagues run like England(mid of the year to the mid of the following year) while Brazil runs from the start of the year to the end. That's why Libertadores final is actually in the middle of the season here, but ok, if any Irish(is it Ireland? I'm not sure but I think it is) club ever reach the Champions League final it'll be middle season for them. The Copa do Brasil thing is... just stupidity. Corinthians can stop playing now, if they believe they won't win the championship, instead of having to fight for a place in a continental competition.

Also, the fact that there is a match during the Libertadores shows two things to me:

1-) The sense of no hierarchy in south-american football. While UEFA release their games dates only after FIFA released them(and FA only after UEFA did it). The CBF(Brazilian FA) release even before Conmebol!

2-) There's no cultural "Football-Watching" as there is in Europe. People follow their teams but they don't watch a neutral team game. I'm certain that most people in England saw Barcelona triumph in the Champions League, being Man Utd fans or not?

I just think it is pure and simple stupidity that they scheduled the Corinthians game last night, it could of been Tues or better still tonight....or maybe more likely for some under the counter political reason....as always seems to be the case here in Brasil.

But please sort it out and give us the right to watch two great games on different evenings. I just think it needs taken by the scruff of the neck, if not by the incompetetant governing bodies then by an ESPN of the world and organise and promote the game here properly, its so frustrating !!!!!

Now dont get me started about the pot holes on the Avenida Brasil and World Cup preparations, yet alone the sheer cheek to apply for the Oylmpics......

:)

2nd leg: Cruzeiro 1 Estudiantes de la Plata 2
well done estudiantes, and veron !

didn't see the match ( will look at the goals on youtube later)...
anyone know if it was a good match or not ??

Football listing on satellite , Copa libertadores what channels will broadcast this match.

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