´óÏó´«Ã½

Excellent piece... The Ireland/Argentina friendly was night and day with the way they played in the World Cup... the Banega/Messi linkup was phenomenal. I just hope Batista doesn't make the mistake of capping Carlos Tevez, besides passion he rarely does anything that can pass for intelligence ––– Batista should let him run his heart out in Manchester, but leave him out of NT inclusion... My first question to you is what are the chances of Maxi Lopez (former Gremio player) being called up to play? It's almost like everyone in Argentina forgot he exists?

My second question is regarding Colombia, will Fabian Castillo be a big part of Colombia's 2014 aspirations? I sure hope so, he's got freak speed and excellent dribbling techniques.

I am glad to see the back of Maradona, 'The Ego has landed' would be a good film title for him and the national team will hopefully vastly improve now he has left.
I can understand why Batista didnt get the job though, if Stuart Pearce is given the job after Capello leaves i would be disappointed.

Great article as always Tim,

As an avid La Liga watcher i can whole heartedly agree with you on Ever Banega , he endured a torrid 18 months initialy in Spain , but ever since he has arguably been one of the finest deep lying playmakers in world football. It will be interesting to see how he gets on at Valencia this year , Unai Emery has changed formation and Valencia's two best players have departed. Will Banega be able to step up to the mark?

I just don't see his long term future at Valencia , i would love to see him been guided by someone like Arsene Wenger at Arsenal or even Rafa Benitez at Inter , look at the wonders it did Mascherano. If Banega does keep himself on the straight and narrow and keeps away from the nightlife then he could be a truly exceptional player.

On Argentina , i think they are in a similair position to Brazil , just not as drastic in terms of the changing over of players. There is certainly alot of promise there , the goalkeeper is a worry but i thought Romero did ok in South Africa.I don't see Otamendi as a long term right back and Angeleri will be going on 33 by Brazil 2014 , will he still have the pace that he uses to such effect? The centre backs are a real problem aswell , Samuel won't be around for the world cup and i would hope Demicheles isn't one of Argentina's two best defenders in 4 years. Do you know of any that are coming through Tim?

Left back is a position that has troubled Argentina in the past aswell , Heinze is another that won't be there for long , so realisticly they have to replace a whole back four in a short space of time. I think Insua can step up if he goes to a club that will look after him properly , i think he'd need to play with a pacey left sided defender though,

I think the Banega Mascherano partnership will be there in 4 years unless Gago can get out of Madrid soon. It's a very exciting pair and immagine if they had Pastore in the number 10 role , he will be 24 by the world cup and probably at one of the worlds biggest clubs , Messi and Di Maria will be there and so will Aguero , Higuain , Tevez.

So there are shining lights for them , but there's alot to be sorted aswell.

Great blog Tim.
To what extent does the administration of football affect this situation? With such a proud footballing history and scores of passionate fans and skillful players how did Argentina get to such a position? Do you think they'd ever consider a foreign coach?

Sergio Batista will have some problems if he gets the job - this year would be a good one to miss.

Argentina's World Cup exit was largely down to a substandard midfield, which Maradona also left undermanned. But Riquelme and Veron were not worldbeaters even in their heydays, and the midfield pretty much consists of Mascherano and the guileless Gago, with the unproven Banega and mediocre Pastore in support.

Next year's Copa America takes place in Argentina, and you would have to think that Brazil and Uruguay both have far stronger teams - it's like the 1950s all over again! Whoever coaches Argentina will face their own little Maracanazo - the humiliation of being eliminated at home from the first major international tournament they will have staged for 24 years.

If I were Batista I would be praying that Alex Sabella gets the job this year!

Hi Tim

It was fascinating reading about the present approach of Batista 'I'm not Maradona'. But don't you think bring players like Zannetti will hurt in the long run. I believe like Guardiola and Van Gaal he should trust the youngsters and groom three or four of them in the back four.

I don't think Argentina have a back line that is good enough for a decent team. Maybe three four unknown players can be coached to form a partnership rather than bringing players known in Europe and try to fix them.

Tim do you think Argentina have three or four such players who's sum may be more than their individual part and can be trusted to form a partnership.

Tim, Has Valdano ever been considered for the Argentina job? Or do people down there consider him to be too 'Spanish' like Johan Cryuff is?
Valdano seems have good footballing knowledge, is well respected, a world cup winner himself (although he must be the only one who still thinks that Maradona should have made THAT pass), and I think, is above Argie club tribal football politics.

Argentina's back can be solid in the back when and if the players get called up. GARAY,FAZIO,ANGELERI,ZABALETA are all talents that can make 2014. You stick Fazio,Garay in the middle and have Angeleri and Zabaleta at the RB/LB back then there you go. I think the problem is that Batista may flood the MF. He will slot, Banega,Masche,Gago all together. During the WC the MF was a joke and now in 2014 it may be flood. I believe he needs to keep Masche/Banega together but he needs to slot Pastore as the creator. The connection will not be Pastore/Messi, but Banega/Pastore. They will unlock many defenses for the likes of Higuain and Messi.

Somebody asked about Maxi Lopez but I just don't see him ever playing for the national team for a long-term. If somebody like Lica Lopez of Lyon not getting called up I just don't see him. I think after CA they need to drop D.Milito. He will be far too old for 2014 and somebody like LISANDRO should come right in.

Tim, Argentina and Brazil seem to be tho only South American countries who haven't tried out a foreign coach? A testement to their footballing culture, sheer population size or arrogance that their own countrymen would always out do any other?

Batista should do well if he won the Olympic gold with many of the current national squad players, the talent is certainly there - many will know his techniques and he'll surely add the defensive capabilities so obviously missing during Maradona's reign.

Intresting to hear your thoughts on how important the South American Under-20 Championship appears to be. Is 'youth' level taken a lot more seriously in South America than in Europe and is it a role many managers strive to take on?

How about Lucho Gonzalez from Marseille? He won the league with Marseille but anyone know how he is doing individually? I know he has been called up before for Argentina.

#5 Yakubusdiet- Clearly you don’t watch football - to question the world beating talents of veron & riquelme is laughable. Clearly you’re unaware of verons heyday- when he picked up the uefa cup, serie a title, Italian cup x2, super cup & euro super cup, not a bad lot in a league which at the time was the frontrunner in world football.

As for Riquleme any memory of him carrying small town club Villarreal to CL football but also the CL Semi's? Or Riquleme nominated as the best foreign player in la liga at a time when Ronaldiniho was in his pomp? The olympics? World youth cup? copa America F? liberatores? SA player of the yr? I guess not for you!

Eva Benega has had a great last twelve months making him far from unproven, Gago prior to his injury probs was having comparisons with Redondo(no lack of guile here).

Argentina's problems at the world cup were purely down to a tactically inept coach- 4 1 5 will not win a world cup! Having a average winger or a young centre back playing at right back when you could pick javier zanetti is nonsensical. Leaving Mascherano alone in midfield when he could have been paired with cambiasso. The shaky Demichilis playing centre back over the assured Milito or promising Garay these were the things that cost Argentina.

There isnt a better time to be coach of Argentina - Benega, mascherano, gago, pastore, messi, aguero, higuain, di maria, garay are at an age perfect for the next world cup, other players such as fazio, monzon, zabaleta, ottamendi, Pareja need to be pushed forward considering some of these were succesful at the Olympics and youth cups

Why anyone would mention banega and gago in the same breath is beyond me. Benega is simply sublime whilst gago looks as slow as Riquelme but without the class on the ball.

I do worry for Argentina's defence tommorow night. They have struggled to produce decent defenders for a while now

@11 Totally agree with you re: Veron and Riquelme. Yakubusdiet obviously never saw Veron and Riquelme at their best. They were superb players, tearing the opposition apart with their skill and passing.

@5 "If I were Batista I would be praying that Alex Sabella gets the job this year!"

Why? isn't it a great privilege to be able to coach your national team? especially one as talented and with so much potential as Argentina?

@11 Exactly.. it gets tiring hearing about Riquelme and Veron consistently and their failings.. Both truly great footballers.

A lot of this article focuses on the age of players and the age they will be in 2014.. but then recognises that Batista has to hit the ground running.. a lot of comments for young blood and bedding some players in.. that isnt going to happen if this guy is under pressure from the off and has to win.

I personally think the players got off lightly after their capitulation in the World Cup.. they chucked it against Germany and Maradona took all the blame... I do believe he made errors and showed a lack of tactical awareness but the players seemed to escape criticism.

I've listened to Batista speak at conferences (before he was appointed caretaker manager). He has very strong opinions.

He's very critical of coaching in Argentina, especially youth coaching - he thinks there's too much emphasis on speed, weights in the gym and the physical side of the game.

He's very critical of the current 'low standard' (his words) of football played in the Argentina league - the game is far too direct and fast, he says, and that Argentinian football is losing it's identity.

He believes very much in what he terms the 'tradtitional Argentina game', with an emphasis on technique, and the position of the 'enganche' (the free player behind the two strikers), which is good news for Riquelme, who I'm sure will be called up by Batista once he's fit.

Critics of Batista, generally people who like Bielsa or Bianchi, say Batista's ideas are outdated. They say that like Maradona, he will take the national team backwards, just at the time when it needs to modernise.

These arguments have been going around for years. Critics of Bielsa, like Batista for example, say that we should not try to beat the Europeans by playing likr Europeans - we can't beat the Europeans at their own game and must stick to what we do best - the slower, more skilful passing game, with the 'gambeta' (dribbling), and the 'enganche'

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I was just thinking about the point raised in the article about the ages of some of the players selected by Batista.

It's very true,but considering Batista is pretty much under trial, having been told that a full-time permanent appointment depends on the results of next few matches, then it's very much in his interests to only think short-term right now. Hence the selection of experienced players who may well be too old for next World Cup, and the omission of the inexperienced Pastore. Batista can't afford to think long-term right now.

Some will say another mess created by Grondona and AFA - a lack of a long-term strategy.

@15 "...which is good news for Riquelme, who I'm sure will be called up by Batista once he's fit"

Riquelme was great but it would be a serious mistake to call him up to the national team again. He's 32 now and would be 36 years old by the time the next World Cup rolls on and no top team would have a 36 year old as their main creative force, would they?

Sure he was great in his prime but Argentina needs to move on from Riquelme, otherwise they'll end up relying too much on a player who will no longer be able to perform at the highest level.

The risk for Argentina is too great. Argentina is a very "emotional" team and if their star player fails to perform when things don't go according to plan, then the whole team collapses.

Argentina has the luxury of having many younger players with lots of experience already who can take over the likes of Zanetti and Riquelme. Granted, they may not be as good as they were in their prime but these young ones have time on their side to develop as a team for the next world cup.

All this, of course, assumes a sensible approach by the Argentinian FA, but that's a completely different issue.

Back in USA94, Argentina took a 34-year-old Maradona to the WC. He was a shadow of his former greatness but Argentina relied on him emotionally.

Argentina at the time had a tremendous team, they didn't really need Maradona, but he was a symbol to them and when he fell from grace, the whole team followed him in his collapse.

Recalling Riquelme now presents a similar problem. They may not be able to drop him from the team until it's too late and Argentina may end up suffering the same fate.

Tim, can i just ask who Zidane Zidine is???

The Argentine FA made the greatest blunder by appointing Maradona in the
first place as he has no idea about players and how to field them, to think of his array of stars and only a Q/finalit is a shame. The new man needs to know that club football is diffrent from national team and as such his selection should be based on the playing style of the national team, not on what you can do for your club side.for example L messi can play behind Millito or Higuan as alone striker.

Hi Tim,

Good article,

I think Argentina have the most gifted squad in International football, but unfortunately they lack a No.9 striker, Higuain is not the answer, he scored 3 goals in the world cup, but missed simple chances, and he seems to be sluggish and doesnt seem to have the heart for his country, I cant think of any natural goal scores for Argentina, gone are the days of Balbo, Batistuta, Crespo.

Would add that Zidane was 34 at the World Cup in 2006 and was the best player there by some way. That said, he is an exceptional case in every possible way and one of the greatest footballers of all time.

Riquelme and Veron were two of the best midfielders in the world for quite some time. Pastore is far from mediocre too. One poster hits on an interesting point on here, saying that the coach needs to bed people in and achieve immediate results, two facets of a job that are difficult to integrate. Is it the job of the national team manager to develop younger players and bring them into the squad slowly? Or should they be capable once they reach 24 or 25 given their club experiences? One thing that Germany have done right, is to agree a style of play throughout their system, so anyone who develops as a player in the Bundesliga and DFB and German youth teams will already know the style, tactics etc of the national team by the time they get there.

Higuain is superb in my opinion, prototypical centre forward if ever there was one. He had struggled for form to the end of last season (especially after his disaster against Lyon) and went in to the World Cup in distinctly average form, but he always seemed to produce for Argentina and is unquestionably talented.

My question is how far away are the likes of Zarate and Lavezzi from the national team? Both superb number 10s in a tough European league.

Great to see tired British story lines and narratives going on strong.

- Almost no one in Argentina had a problem with Cambiasso and Zanetti not making it!

Considering that the Argentine public had seen enough of both players in the qualifiers (which most of you did not watch) and their numerous other caps over the years. I think it was well within their rights to feel that way.
But no off CL footie you guys disagree and since you cant criticize the nation you put it on Maradona.smh

- The players were all in favor of Maradona staying after the world cup!

And none of them have come out to bad mouth him after his exit. In fact there is very little bad press for Maradona in Argentina...weird huh?

- More than 20,000 Argentines turned up to welcome the team back from SA.

That is for example more than the 'massive crowds that welcomed back the Black Stars to Ghana after their quarter final run.

And I would have joined them if I was there. Argentina played a wonderful world cup, filled with expression and attacking football, that they lost to the only other entertaining team at the tournament (Germany - maybe add Chile to that too) is no crime.

Thought experiment if you think it is such a loss that Argentina did not go further because of their talent, then I am sure you would still feel that way if England had somehow made it to the quarters and then through some terrible act of injustice beaten then (the injustice being winning against such an obviously superior team) Right? right? lol

Let us please have some honesty in reporting so that people here have their views challenged by reality and get informed!

Am tired of all the Maradona bashing. Seeing how he is in tune with much of the Argentine public it is really just a proxy for Argentine bashing. You guys have no right to do that. It is their national team. You have more than enough to worry about with you own!!!!

With respect, tkai babay, I'd say Maradona is in tune with about 50% of the Argentine public, at best.

I live in Buenos Aires, and, in my opinion, the most vitriolic attacks on Maradona I've ever heard come from Argentines, and certainly the majority of the Argentine press was against him during the last few games of the qualifiers (hence Maradona's infamous outburst after the Uruguay match).

Conversely, I think Martadona is quite liked in England these days. My friends in England tell me how, during World Cup, everyone found Maradona entertaining, and in a popular, likebale way.

Admitedly, I live in the capital, where Maradona is probably not as popular as he is in the provinces of Buenos Aires and the interior of the country, but certainly, in my experience, wathching the World Cup in cafe and bars, I found very few ordinary folk who had a good word to say about Maradona as a person, and a manager.

I believe it will be difficult for Batista, as it appears that he finds himself in a no win situation.
If he goes with players like Zanetti and Cambiasso then he may be more likely to win games and get the job, but will face critiscism from the public.
On the other hand if he picks not necessarily 'unproven' players but youth players, such as Pastore, Garay and Fazio then he risks potentially losing games and would be in a more vulnerable position to lose the job, as even if he does not get satisfactory resluts with the older players, the argentian FA may not blame him so much because he has lost with-in their opinion-the 'right' players.
Personally I'd love to see Batista pkay with the younger players but I'm not sure that would be the right decision for the position he's in.

On an unrelated note I thought that Maradona was very refreshing to have at the world cup, only he could play with almost 5 strikers and 1 centre mid, absolute quality! He had a special bond with the players too, most of whom would have idolised him growing up and there were never any reports of any arguments in the argentinian camp and he had so many quality forwards that I think he did very well to cram all but one of them (Aguero) into his starting 11!

Hi Tim,

A wonderful article, I always enjoy reading what you write along with listening to you on the World Football Phone-in and other shows occasionally.

I had a question which probably only you can answer:

Do you think that the easiest stepping stone for South Americans to go to Europe is Italy's Serie A?

Being a fan of Italian football, I've noticed that maybe South Americans could find Serie A an easy transition. We've seen Javier Pastore go to Palermo and do well his first season, and I think he will bloom in his second. There's also Cavani, Hernandez, and Pato who all had little difficulty getting used to the Italian league. And we've also seen many Brazilians and Argentineans at Inter Milan, like the young Coutinho who seems to have already gotten used to playing at Inter Milan.

I think that the Serie A allows for players to have more time on the ball, and you've often said that playmakers which come from South America (especially Brazil), are used to having time on the ball. In the EPL, La Liga, and the Bundesliga, you find teams closing in very quickly, and applying pressure right away, while in Serie A I think that players have a bit more time to work their magic.

If you don't think that the Serie A is the best transition to Europe for young South Americans, which league do you think is? Is it La Liga with it's more technical side?

I'd like to know what you think.

Maradonas popularity has a lot to do with do you support Boca or River.River fans have a lot less patience for el diez.Batista of course right now is picking an only Euro based squad as The home league had a full round of matches saturday and Sunday.This will continue next game v Brasil in Quatar but he then will have a local based squad take on Brasil agin this time at home.i would say the only reason hes picking Cambiasso and Zanetti in particular right now is he doesnt want to rock any boats before he gets the job.However I think his Irish team with Gago,Banega and Mascherano was horribly negative no time for Pastore who was then dropped.It will be interesting to see if Dalessandro starts.

Pipe down Tkal baby, there is absolutely no 'Argentine bashing' or lack of 'honesty' in this blog nor its comments, in fact Mr Vickery is a great connoisseur and admirer of Argentinian football and if you properly read the other comments you will not find a shred of evidence to back up your spurious claims. You're being bitter when you don't need to be.
Moving away from Tkal baby's unnecessary ranting, really looking forward to tomorrow's game and hoping the new look albiceleste can challenge the World Champions.

@24 "Argentina played a wonderful world cup, filled with expression and attacking football, that they lost to the only other entertaining team at the tournament (Germany - maybe add Chile to that too) is no crime. "

Yes, but you also have to consider that they did that against inferior opposition. As soon as they faced a tough opponent, they collapsed. The team was unbalanced, top heavy and the selection of defensive players was not the right one. In addition, once they were in trouble, the coach had no plan B and was incapable of doing anything to change the course of the game.

Yes, they may have talented players but in this case, the coach had the responsibility to come up with a solution and he failed miserably in the planning and execution of the game. That is the coach's fault whether he's called Smith, Jones or Maradona.

Germany entertaining?...yes, but only until they met Spain where they just gave the ball and the field to the Spanish from the first minute hoping for some lucky counterattack that never came. I had never seen a German team being so fearful of the opposition as the one I saw that day.

The players at el Diez's disposal make his team's capitulation all the more astounding. His team selection was as bold as it was naive. 2004 Greece won Euro by employing a man marking system unused by their opponents. 2010 Maradona similarily tried to use a system his opponents would be unused to,no attacking full backs and a squad of single function players. It backfired. And now he must face the criticism. Man has and will always employ hindsight. Hindsight is 20/20. Some of the players left out of the squad and of the line up were sorely missed. Its like Capello,Theo had done nothing to warrant inclusion since the Croatia match. But considering England's poor performance he seems to have been missed.

#22 vinnie- I cannot believe how many people fail to see the importance of Gonzalo Higuain!

I'm not going to attack your opinion other than point out Higuain scored 4 goals at the world cup and had Maradona not opted to rest him against their weakest opponents Greece, he would of probably gone on to be the top scorer at the W.Cup.

I am going to forward some facts that seem to get continously overlooked when Higuain is mentioned.

1, before the overhype of Ronaldo & co arrived at the Bernabau it was the (lacking in huge transfer fee) Gonzalo Higuain who had carried Madrid .
2, When Ronaldo & co arrived.. it was still the unsung, underhyped Gonzalo Higuain that Madrid turned back too, he finished their top scorer yet again!

Ever since Crespo's injury during the 07 Copa america, Argentina lacked a number 9, one offering size, strength and movement and goals.
Diego Milito, Tevez, Aguero, Lavezzi, Lopez even Palermo were tryed out in varying combinations by coaches Bisele and Maradona. Every single one of the those players came up short(quite literally in some cases).

During this same 2yr period Higuain had become the top goalscorer for Real Madrid (not a bad club) in 08/09. Then when his lack of a big name seemed to suggest there wasnt a spot for him amongst Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka, et al, Madrid had to turn back to him, and it was he, not Ronaldo, who put their season back on track, finishing the season their top scorer (yet again!) and La liga's runner up to Messi.

Finally after two years of dragging Madrid to a title challenge, the young, tall, strong, mobile goalscoring Higuain finally got the call to Argentina.

His presence has changed their whole shape, it gave a obvious focal point for the mini men to play off and Argentina started to look like a team. Their victory in Germany (which also saw a long overdue recall for Walter Samuel) really pointed out the obvious- Messi and Higuain worked.

At the world cup he went on to score 4 goals and had Maradona not let his heart rule his head with the sudden adoption of 4-1-5, there was every chance that they would of gone further.

Higuain has scored 6/10 at international level, he's been the top scorer for Madrid 2 seasons running, every Argentina forward imaginable was given the nod before him, but finally his persistent knocking meant they had to put aside the france/argentine issue and pick him, and there's no question he should stay!

I felt it was frustrating to watch Argentina at the world cup, especially in the Germany game. Maradona's tactical ineptitude was there for everyone to see. The omission of veron (Was this through injury?) for the Germany game ensured the team lacked any balance. Messi had to repeatedly come deep to get the ball but really you want him in the final third of the pitch - that's where he is most devastating. Moreover, leaving out Cambiasso and Zanneti was an act of lunacy. I'm sure Batista will do a better job but I do not agree with leaving out Pastore as I think he's one of Argentina's brightest prospects and any game time he gets for the national team will ensure he develops further.

At the next World Cup you will find that Riqueleme will be 36 and Veron will be 39.

A number of contributors to this thread have described them as great, ignoring the fact that Argentina failed to win the last three Copa Americas or get beyond the World Cup quarter-final at any point during their international careers.

Modern international football is played with a 4-2-3-1 formation. Mascherano and Gago may form the "2" but Messi and di Maria aren't great fits for the wide positions in the "3" because of their defensive deficiencies, and there is no sign of a developing central attacking midfielder arriving.

As I wrote earlier, there are two clearly superior teams at next year's Copa America. We expect Brazil to be strong, but the outstanding team is probably the one with Forlan, Suarez, Cavani and Lodeiro as its offensive threat and Godin and Lugano at the back.

I suspect that defeat at home to Uruguay or Brazil in the Copa America will end the reign of whoever is about to become the coach.

@35 "... there are two clearly superior teams at next year's Copa America. We expect Brazil to be strong, but the outstanding team is probably the one with Forlan, Suarez, Cavani and Lodeiro as its offensive threat and Godin and Lugano at the back."

Argentina and Brazil, the usual suspects. Uruguay are very strong.

Don't forget the dark horse: Chile

I'm sure Bielsa would love to win that tournament in his homeland.

At 4:37pm on 06 Sep 2010, tkal baby wrote:
Great to see tired British story lines and narratives going on strong.

- Almost no one in Argentina had a problem with Cambiasso and Zanetti not making it!


Did they also not have a problem with being hammered in the quarter finals of the world cup?

Cambiasso should have been in that squad, he was instrumental in helping Inter win everything that was possible for them to win last season. He's at the peak of his career and to overlook him was ridiculous.

As for Zanetti, the man is the best role model Argentina has produced in my lifetime - FACT

His leadership qualities on and off the field are incredible. He's loyal, he's calm, he doesn't cheat, he's hard working, he's great with or without possession.....

As Tim says, for Javier Zanetti to miss 2 world cups is very harsh. The guy is a class act

Yakubusdiet #35 Seriously are you for real?!

Messi and Di maria arent great fits for the wide positions?!

I take it you didnt watch Barcelona win everything with ..oh Messi and Henry playing in the wide positions! Neither of which has any great defensive qualities, nor too Iniesta and Xavi for that matter, or Eto'o.

In fact only Toure offered any defensive qualities, and even today, Villa, Messi, Pedro, Xavi, Iniesta have only the defensive protection of Busquets in the 433.


Mascherano, Cambiasso/Gago would offer far more defensive protection than Barcelona/spain offer and Benega or Pastore could easily take over the playmaker role you point out they lack. If not them Messi could easily be switched to that role or Aguero considering he started his career there. If Argentina have weakness it is in Defence particularly the fullback positions other than that they're a very strong team.
Your delusions of Uruguay astound me, they had a very easy passage during the world cup and Forlan cannot do everything! Brazil will be strong, on what evidence? - they had zero creativity at the world cup beyond Kaka and once they'd conceded they crumbled.

I will applaud you on being able to work out the ages of Veron & Riquelme at the next world cup, its just a shame you cannot workout who is or was a world class player! Puskus, zico, di stefano all joe averages because they didnt win a world cup, thanks for your insight! :P

Superb blog Tim, always on the money. Feel sorry for Ganzo, the guy looked really good the few times i have watched him. Pleased with Batista's picks, hope he does well. I love watching Argentina and the fact that they were so unlucky in 2006 still irritates me, hope the current manager can take them far with their beautiful football. To be honest no matter how much I love maradona, I felt he was never going to beat an accomplished side at the world cup if he played the formation he did during the group phase. No doubt in my mind had, Riquelme, Zanetti, Cambiasso and milto played the team would have been much stronger

heres my team that should have started at the world cup

Romero
otamendi or ansaldi
Samuel
Milito
Zanetti
Mascherano
Cambiasso
Riquelme
Messi
Higuan/Milito
Di Maria

With the likes of tevez, Aguero, Gutierrez, D'allessandro providing quality back up.

Nonetheless, moving foward the players at the disposal of the coach are tremendous, its now a time for finding the right balance and reaching 2014 in good shape.

Argentina 4-1 Spain

Great, now Argentina has to work on winning when it really matters.

So when Argentina loses a friendly people make fun of it, when they smash the WC champs, it does count since it does not matter? Riiiiiiiiiiiight!

@41 "So when Argentina loses a friendly people make fun of it, when they smash the WC champs, it does count since it does not matter? Riiiiiiiiiiiight!"

winning/losing friendlies is not important. Sure, they're useful to see what areas a team needs to work on, even when you win, but they're just rehearsals for the "real" matches, those where there are points being played.

So this real game you talk about it. If it was not a "real game" then the superstars would not line up for it. Nor will 70,000 fans. The game was building for the future.So stop being such a hater because it is really foolish.

@43 "So this real game you talk about it. If it was not a "real game" then the superstars would not line up for it. Nor will 70,000 fans. The game was building for the future.So stop being such a hater because it is really foolish"

hater??!! LOL, you're a funny guy.

superstars?!...are you talking about football players whose job it is to play football and maybe that's why they line up for it?

Yes, this game "was building for the future", so we can't really use it to judge either team. As I said previously, friendlies are important for the coaches and what they do with the conclusions they arrive to. And if they happen to entertain 70,000 fans while doing so, even better.

Friendlies don't have the pressure they'll face in tournament competition, so the next "real games" for Argentina will be at the Copa America where the pressure will be really on, considering they're the hosts.

Friendlies don't have the pressure of tourneys? When you are the defending champions and when you have a target on your back game in and game out, then that is pressure. When you are playing in front of your crowd and have something to prove, that is pressure. And you may not recall, but many superstars in the past did not take part of these friendlies, they let the second string players or bench players play. Sorry but your ideology does not link up with mine, so lets leave it at that. Chau pibe.

Well, that's sealed it for Batista, surely?

Can't see him not being appointed now.

Quality performance from Argentina, with some superb finishing.

I thought even before kick off, the Argentina line up looked so much more balanced than in the World Cup.

Batista said before match that he wanted Messi playing up the pitch, and not coming all the way back into his own half. The 4-3-3 formation was similar to the way Barcelona play, with Messi in the same role up-front.

Very frustrating for Argentinians in a way, becasue you couldn't help feeling 'what if' - if they had played with these players,in this formation during World Cup could that have beaten Germany?

Cambiasso and Banega were very impressive I thought, providing the balance for the 3 up-front.

Sergio Batista and his boys are tasting success after success in international friendlies. Congratulations to goal scorers Messi, Higuain, Tevez and Aguero.

Surely Batista must get the job on a permanent basis now!

What might have been eh? if only he had been given the job two years earlier... still much optimism for the future with this result. Team was much more compact, defended well, passed and kept the ball brillantly to devasting effect on the first two goals.

The result does make the decision to have Maradona in charge all the more sillier!

Any thoughts Tim? Whats the mood in Argentina/South America today after this result?

Cool to see D'Alessandro back in, would have like him to have got a few more minutes though!

You would think that Batista would be offered the role full time but rumours abound that Bilardo wants Sabella of Estudiantes as coach.

Just getting myself (probably inadvertedly) in between the cross fire between BladeRunner and BatiBati - you shouldnt be arguing this so much, both are right!
Should Argentinans be happy and celebrate the win? sure yes, they just beat Spain, but most important they showed they can have a well balanced team. Nobody ever questioned the potential of a side with the likes of Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Milito and DiMaria, the doubts where whether the defense could be as good as the attack, and the performance in the friendly seems to go some way to dispel those doubts.

Does the win in such an ecounter mean Argentina is already better than Spain and other top teams? Not necessarily, the difference to competitive games is that in these both teams will have one single objective - to come out on top - and will equally prepare to reach their summit at the competition. In friendlies, preparation and 90-minute objectives may differ between the two sides which makes comparisons fuzzier. Obviously there is very little between Argentina and Spain (and a couple of other big sides) all are in the beginning of a cycle and we will all be eager to see which comes on top come 4 years time.

Hope Argentina are able to maintain that balance for the next World Cup. At full flight, they are a great team to watch. In fact, after 1990 they have been the ones flying the "jogo bonito" flag for South America post Brazil 82. It's a shame this has not been rewarded with titles though.

If they can keep their act together (and that's a big IF considering their past record), only Brazil can stop them, but they'll have to be at their best.

Still not convinced with Romero though. He's not a keeper that can win games. In fact, I can't even recall the last time I saw a very good Argentinian keeper. Maybe BatiBati can enlighten us on what other choices there are for their national team.

In any case, solving their defensive issues and keeping that balance may in some way compensate for having a not so good keeper although I still think you need a better keeper than that to win tournaments.

BladeRunner - I recall Fillol as the last really good one, though the Argies might reply Pumpido and Goycochea were as good.

@52 "I recall Fillol as the last really good one, though the Argies might reply Pumpido and Goycochea were as good."

Fillol and Pumpido won the World Cup, fair enough.

Goicoechea was an interesting one. I'm not sure if he was any good, but he was amazingly lucky, which is something all keepers need, although he seemed to have more than his fair share of luck in 1990. From the moment he became the first choice keeper, all the way to the final.

And of course, he seemed to have a knack for stopping penalties which is always handy.

In any case, it has been a while since they had a decent goalie.

I dont want to deviate from the argentine banter. but i just saw that arsenal have signed Wellington Silva from Fluminense. All i know is that he is a forward, but is he similar to the likes of Vela/walcott?

Yakubusdiet where are you now- eat that humble pie!

4-1 against the world champions and as much as the boys at ITv (i hope the beeb dont class that as swearing!) tried to play down the win(no doubt they wanted to see the Argies stuffed) the facts are that Spain have lost just twice in 4 yrs.

During that period Spain have played numerous friendlies and have come out on top, so not to place any relevance on this fixture is mindless. Note, the english never place facts on friendlies, mores the pity, if they did they would've realised that qualifying for the world cup didnt fortell as much as the friendlies v's spain, brazil, holland, etc where they were left chasing shadows.
Friendlies, particularly the first 45mins, have relevant notes-
The Spanish have suffered defeat just twice in 4 yrs
For the first time ever they didnt dominate possession.
No team, let alone the world champions would want to suffer a 4-1 humbling.
Spains midfield comprised of Iniesta, Alonso, Busquets & Fabregas and yet failed to hold possession over Benega, Cambiasso & Mascherano.
Villa, Silva & Pique all started too so this wasnt a weak line up. Marchena who stepped in for Puyol isnt lacking in experience either.

Argentina had at long last a manager who simply picked their best players and played them in their best positions. Oh what might have been!

The world cup was flat to say the least and Spain deserving champions as they were, still werent great , 7 goals in 6 matches 5 of which from one player showed that this wasnt the Spain of the Euro's.

What a pity Maradona believed that left winger Jonas Guitierrez was a better right back than CL winner Javier Zanetti, or a midfield one of Mascherano was a better balance than a 3 of Cambiasso, Benega & Mascherano, that Gaby Milito and Samuel wouldnt of given a more solid back line.

Their detractors will point out the lack of Xavi, Puyol, Casillas and Ramos from Spains friendly 11, but it was universally pointed out that Argentina lacked Cambiasso, Zanetti, Gaby Milito & Benega in their world cup 11.
"Oh what might have been!" is the recurring thought of every Argentine, lets hope the AFA give Batista the contract he deserves and dont choose somebody else, they dont want to be holding that thought again in 4yrs time!

Although we will never know just how motivated Spain were to win a friendly, not saying they would have won it if they were, just pointing it out, they could still be in World Cup hangover? None of us know how it would feel to have won it and if there would be any motivation left to do it all over again.

Just throwing a spanner in the works and looking at it in a different direction. Didn't watch the game, but I'm assuming most of the WC stars were playing.

it is always happy to hear that football giants argentina defeated any other team,especially when they thrash latest world champions.it proves if argentina had played in the world cup final,they would have devastated the dreams of the present champions.immense victory over the spaniards have increased the spirit of the team.even if maradona was the coach the result would have been same.expulsion of maradona maradona is not going to make any change for the national side but the football fans of all around the world will miss watching the '''SOUL OF CLASSIC FOOTBALL'''

not fully conversant with Penarol's rich history in Uruguyan football but, a player I do remember seeing a fair bit of them mid nineties as a bleary eyed teenager watching South American football in the early hours and Pablo Bengoechea was a fantastic midfielder if I recall, I would have loved to see him in Europe. I just wondered what role if any he has in football right now

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Yes, but you also have to consider that they did that against inferior opposition. As soon as they faced a tough opponent, they collapsed. The team was unbalanced, top heavy and the selection of defensive players was not the right one. In addition, once they were in trouble, the coach had no plan B and was incapable of doing anything to change the course of the game.

ot fully conversant with Penarol's rich history in Uruguyan football but, a player I do remember seeing a fair bit of them mid nineties as a bleary eyed teenager watching South American football in the early hours and Pablo Bengoechea was a fantastic midfielder if I recall, I would have loved to see wondered what role if any he has in football loved to see wondere

it is always happy to hear that football giants argentina defeated any other team,especially when they thrash latest world champions.it proves if argentina had played in the world cup final,they would have devastated the dreams of the present champions.immense victory over the spaniards have increased the spirit of the team.even if maradona was the coach the result would have been same.expulsion of maradona maradona is not going to make any change for the national side but the football fans of all around the world will miss watching the '''SOUL OF CLASSIC FOOTBALL''' - - - -

Excellent read!


cheers

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

I think the Brazil is a great team. Thanks for the nice topic.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?