大象传媒

Tim, I read recently that Wellington (Alves da Silva) Arsenal's new wonder Brazilian, who is only seventeen, recently trained with the Brazil squad. Is this true? How much of a look-in is he getting? He is supposed to be considered on the level of Ganso, Neymar, Coutinho and Zezinho... Would love to see an Arsenal player at Brazil what with Denilson still not getting a chance, even Lucas is always included.

Another great blog tim!

I know you have bemained the middle of the brazilian midfiled on several occasions, and would like to see it revert to something like 1982, but can brazil still produce players like socrates and zico? I mean almost all world class brazilians are in Europe and those type of player just dont cut it here unless the entire side is built around them (Riquelme at barca was a disaster, at villareal hes was immense, kaka at milan/real being anther example). Do you feel that econimic pressure to produce european footballers tells when it comes to youth development?

Great blog as always. I have been living in Sao Paulo for a couple of months now and just wondered if you have any comments on a couple of things that I find very different in the football here. Firstly, the swapping of shirts at halftime (does this just happen to the 'big name' players, I cant work it out, seems quite prevalent) and secondly the giving of interviews at halftime as well. I watch Flu recently and their was Deco chatting to the press at halftime, with the game tied, and it was surprising he was not just focussed on getting back to the dressing room. I am learning the lingo, but I think I read that this type of on pitch interviewing was one of the first things Big Phil Scolari banned upon taking over at Palmeiras. Any thoughts?

We'll you might be jealous of those of us living in the UK while this friendly match is hosted here, but I'd be delighted to be on a plane back to South America for a paid job watching football!

The football over there is so much more entertaining to watch, the passion of the crowds, the exciting talented teenagers always coming through into the first team to replace the established players that have been poached by the Europeans, the charismatic managers and journeyman players, the returning heroes like Ronaldo, Veron and Riquelme, going back to domestic football in their own country for the love of it (they could get paid 10x more playing in UAE, Israel, Greece, Turkey or Mexico).

The best thing about it is that unlike the Premier League, I don't get that sick feeling because so many of the players are overpaid, egotistical, mercenaries with no morals and massive overblown senses of self entitlement.

#1 considering what Lucas has done for Brazil U21, that he is still 23, and has been pretty solid for Brazil (actually one of the better players against USA), I don't see any reason for Mano to be dropping him anytime soon. Denilson is the outsider here, so he needs to prove why he should get called up.

ALso, considering Liverpool's current form (Lucas did not play in the last 3 league matches), I question most of the criticism Lucas was getting. Especially when ppl compared him to 30 old players like Alonso.

Don't be surprised if Lucas moves to an Italian side and does well there. Personally, I think he might do even better if not used as a holding mid, but as a box-to-box.

Brazil holding mid will definitely be Sandro now at Tottenham -- just a matter of time.

Brazil, why have you betrayed Arsenal by chosing to play at Derby? Cheating on the most modern stadium in England for Pride Park, Why?

weezer316, there is this on going myth about 1982, and how great would it be to see Brazil playing that sort of football. Mind you, it was great indeed, and as the first WC I watched as a 9-year old it has a special place as some of my best (and painful) memories. However players like Socrates, Zico, Falcao, Eder and Junior, all playing at their career best, are not found around the corner even in Brazil. It is a bit irritating that people expect the Selecao to be capable of generating that football as if it were simply a matter of wanting to.

I was never a big fan of Dunga but I think he used the resources at hand in the best way possible. Not taking Ronaldinho to South Africa was a mistake(specially as he did take the useless Kleberson and Josue) but would have it made a difference? I think not. So there will be times when Brazil might need to revert to a more physical, tactically minded game in order to keep winning - as we did in 94 as well - and I think that it is also a testimony of Brazil's capacity as a footballing nation that we can shift styles and still be successful.

Now there is the feeling the younger crop might be suited to a more attractive sort of game. I have nothing against that, of course. But I think that the most sensible approach (and Mano, the new manager, seems to be quite sensible, a lot more than Dunga by the way) is to use those quailities but not totally dismissing the good things about the Dunga side: organization in defence and tactical discipline of the midfielders. We should also not ignore good players that are young enough for 2014 just because we failed in 2010 - I am sure the likes of Kaka, Maicon, Nilmar and Julio Cesar can very well contribute to a strong side in the WC at home. All that combined with the upcoming talent, with intelligent preparation, should leave us once again as one of the favourites.

@1 haho, who the hell is Zezinho?

as usual its easy to blame the old coach when results dont come his way and sing praises of a new one. Brasil would never have beaten the Spanish side that won the World Cup cos the spanaids were the best team in the world. No 2 ways about it.

Forget the sytle, the tactics. Football is a team sport and for you to succeed consistently there must be cohension. The fulcrum of the team must be together especially in internatinal football where players hardly play together.

Its not by coincidence that the Spaniards are playing by far the best football. LOOK AT THE MAKE OF THEIR TEAM ITS FILLED WITH PLAYERS FROM ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS CURRENTLY PLAYING THE GAME (The Orchestra Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Pique, Sergio) fringe players in Valdes, Pedro, those who know the philosophy in Fabregas, Those who have joined the philosphy in Villa I mean the model cant go wrong. Playing telephatic football is not about regions or countries, its about a philosophy, the sport is an ART, it has to be understood.

So enough of this steroetype talk about Brazil and their Samba. Its just a pigment of imagination in peoples mind It no longer exists. Those days the players were together not now where the striker plays in Ukraine, and some 2 players in the Brazilian league, then a handful in england and some in Spain & Italy where all the philosophies of playing the game are different and you expect them to gel over a few days??

As Jose he will tell you it takes time to make a team tick.

The Brazil of 1994 had majority of their players either in the Spanish League or back home and until they return to that model no coach can make them play the Samba.

Wow! Great article Time!!! Thanks very much!

I'm Arsenal through and through, and in addition to 'haho's question above about Wellington, I'd like to know if your familiar with another south american signing of ours, 17 year old Samual Galindo, whom we've sent out on loan to UD Salamanca in the Spanish Segunda.

He came under a storm of controversy about his age. Apparently, some reporter there led a campaign to condemn him and his reps of lying about his age. It turned out to be a false attempt to ruin the boy's reputation, but I've always wondered if such a smear campaign may not have been the result of a resentful party who lost out on a stake in the boy's future earnings trying to get back at him and the winners of that lottery. Any thoughts...

Thanks again for an excellent article!

I thought Gilberto Silva was a midfielder not a converted centre back. Seems AW was playing him out of position all those years. Maybe he did not know either.

Not a particular interesting article. Better luck next time !!!

Good article Tim!!!What annoys me is that some people on here are not brazillian and they say 'I think we will win it' etc etc as if they are from that country.
Support your own home nation or country and dont be back stabbers and think other good teams are your teams.
Glory Hunters!!

A good article. I dont think Dunga can be blamed for anything, his approach was good- a lot of people just get carried away when talking about Brazil, expecting 8-0 wins, with 75 pass moves. It just doesnt happen anymore, international football has moved on. I think fans need to realise this!

@7... I think you have misunderstood what Tim was saying. Gilberto Silva started his career as a central defender but was later moved to holding midfield.

My bad, that should have said "@ 11"

@8 AlexAD

Zezinho is a promising 18 year old forward who Arsenal were reputedly interested in last year when he was with Juventude. He joined Santos this season but has been unable to get a regular starting spot which is not surprising as he usually plays in a wide position and there's a guy there called Neymar who is reputedly quite good.

Here we go again! Another pundit critising Brazil for playing pragmatic football. We have heard it over and over again. And yet, when Brazil play what Europeans would consider pretty football or describe as "over playing," and fail to win, we hear critical comments all over again explaing why such a style of playing is never likely to be winning football.

Over the last football cycle leading to the World Cup finals in South Africa, you continually contrasted Brazil's style with Argentina's. Yet neither team did win in the end and in fact Argentina got a good hiding from Germany and the Germans in the end were not even eventual Champions. Brazilians may hanker after playing 600 passes but in the end football politics and sheer good luck often comes into play. Spain's win was the closest of close run things against a Netherlands team of thugs. They lost to Switzerland after all and could easily have lost against Chile. A weak referee almost deprived Spain of the Cup in the end even though Spain is a European team. If Brazil, a non European team, do play like the Spaniards, can you imagine a referee not allowing even more physical play on the grounds of the game being a contact and physical sport and the need to make games competitive? And where did all that intricate passing get Argentina both in the World Cup in South Africa and the one before that in Germany?

I think the Brazilians are correct not to go into the World Cup playing all the entertaining football and yet end up not winning the trophy. They won the Cup in 2002 and 1994 and got to the final in 1998 playing pragmatic football which is what the tournament calls for. Ultimately losing playing pragmatic football is more digestable and less painful than playing the best football only to be mugged by less talented by more pragmatic team.

Despite winning two World Cups since the 1982 tournament, I still feel a certain amount of pain that the likes of Socrates, Zico, Eder, Junior, Falcao and others will vacate this earth without ever being World Cup winners. I don't think I want to experience such pain again and I thus support a more pragmatic approach from Brazil. Fantasy and reality are two quite different things.

Actually I am not Brazilian but I always want Brazil to win simply because of the sheer joy they have managed to produce for the whole world to enjoy over the years. No other country comes even remotely close!

1. haho 鈥淲ellington (Alves da Silva) Arsenal's new wonder Brazilian, who is only seventeen, recently trained with the Brazil squad. Is this true? How much of a look-in is he getting?鈥�

I鈥檝e not heard anything about him training with Brazil鈥檚 senior side (if that鈥檚 what you meant). But I do know that he鈥檚 not even getting a look in at Fluminense and he鈥檚 rarely included on the bench. Much of this has to do with Flu coach Muricy Ramalho (the man who dropped Den铆lson when they were both at Arsenal) but to be honest Silva has simply not performed in the Brasileiro. The same can be said of Zezinho (another player connected with Arsenal) who spends most of his time on the bench or with the reserves at Santos. True, they鈥檙e only teenagers and given the chance could mature into decent players. But I鈥檝e seen a lot of both Wellington Silva and Zezinho and at this moment in time, they do not deserve the overblown reputation they have abroad. I don鈥檛 blame the players for this image. They鈥檝e been hyped up by agents and investors whose only interest is getting a quick return on their invetsments

17. At 5:00pm on 04 Oct 2010, Shimmering Gold and Glory wrote:
Here we go again! Another pundit critising Brazil for playing pragmatic football. We have heard it over and over again. And yet, when Brazil play what Europeans would consider pretty football or describe as "over playing," and fail to win, we hear critical comments all over again explaing why such a style of playing is never likely to be winning football.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry but I did not detect any of that in Tim's blog.

@6 I believe it is due to the large number of Ukranians living in Derby.

The problem is that Brazil has only friendlies,their first competitive game is in Copa Americano next July in Argentina.

Chsmpions League match Braga vs Shaktar,showcases Brazilian talent,17 Brazilians in both squads.Douglas Costa in particulas a target once of Man Utd.

No 6 Royal Gooner.its a home game for Ukraine not Brazil,Derby has a very high concentration of Ukrainians. I saw Brazil vs Rep of Ireland in March entertaing game.Kaka was King,sadly injured!!

@17 Shimmering Gold and Glory

I don't have a mandate to defend Tim, but I have read his blog for many months now and he was never unreasonably critical of Dunga, on the contrary, he portrayed some of Dunga's moves as coherent even when the whole Brazilian press was vilifying him (example: when the WC squad was announced).

Tim has had exactly the same approach in this article, so you must have read it in a very carelessly to come up with this comment.

Echoing #6 Royal_Gooner, why has Brazil chosen to play in the Midlands instead of their seemingly adopted home at The Emirates? Is it due to 'lower crowd' expectation given the unusual choice of opposition or does Mano Menezes fear his '600 passes in a game' at The Emirates might get them labelled as 'playing just like The Arse' ie. with no end result?

It's a bit ironic that Brazilians like Gilberto Silva and now to a much lesser extent admittedly Denilson's appreciation at Arsenal comes from their hard-working 'defensive' team ethic over technical flair. Wellington sounds a prospect more in the typical Samba-style mold - built to excite but will he find equal success?

By the way, who are Brazil's main threats to a place at the London Olympics 2012 apart from Argentina Tim?

the Brazillian team to the last World Cup was not really an excellent side but they somehow had the qualities to win the trophy. However, they blew it at the moment that mattered most, losing concentration and deciding to play to the gallery. The could have blown away the Dutch in the first half and with the way they approached the game, it was difficult to believe that they'd be heading home after 90 minutes.
I'm not too sure the current squad (made up of bread and butter players) will be solid enough to win the World Cup. But a combination of home advantage and probably a reduction in the quality of other major challengers (Spain might not be as strong) may swing it the way of the Brazillians in 2014.
Finally, I'd love to watch Brazil dominate games with their swift passing and possession play which they were known for. In recent past, it was not really a pleasant side having them playing second fiddle in most games depending only on counter attacks and set pieces. Somehow, they have to find a way to balance all the acts.

Talk about missing a point there #17. You wasted your time writing that piece there.

I believe @20 is correct, I'm sure this is Ukraine's home game.

#27
Derby somehow has the largest Ukrainian population in the United Kingdom. That is why the match is being played there.

Tim i've seen some posts on other really good young brazilian players like Lucas and casemiro of sao paulo and neto berola at aletico mineiro. any chance that they'll be in the brazil squad soon?

I can't imagine a fit kaka would be left out of any brazil team, especially when you look at the relative inexperience of their current midfield.

do u think this is the end of fabiano? he had a phenomenal scoringcrecord for brazil?

and what's the opinion of brazil playing so many matches in Europe? I know it will suit the European based players who will always make up the majority ofvtgeir squads but surely the fans at home would want to see thir pride and joy playing at home at any opportunity, I wouldn't be happy if England started playing all their friendlies in say china?

"...support striker Neymar has been left out on disciplinary grounds."

18 years old, lots of potential but still a nobody in football terms and already facing disciplinary trouble!, amazing.

@2 "... but can brazil still produce players like socrates and zico?"

No, but Brazil have been very fortunate to have had football monsters like Ronaldo and Romario who carried them all the way to World Cup titles disguising their weaknesses as a team.

However, with both of them gone, Brazil is just a good team, nothing extraordinary and as a result, they have failed to make an impression at the World Cup.

Brazil 1982, as brilliant as they were back then, would be destroyed by a top team these days. Football has changed since then, it's a lot faster, with physically stronger players and the concepts of defending and the importance of having a decent goalkeeper are a lot more developed than they were back in 1982.

It'll be difficult for Brazil to change their counterattacking ways overnight, in fact, they'll probably end up playing a slightly more adventurous style than in South Africa but not that much more. We'll have to wait until next year's Copa America to find out.

Hi Tim, I did ask last week but am very interested on your views on Philippe Coutinho, I saw him pre-season and was very impressed and it seems he is getting game time at Inter Milan.

"The pressure that Holland exerted on the ball led Brazilian coaches to think in terms of a game with more physical contact and less space in the middle of the field. Increasingly, the attack was carried by quick-breaking full-backs - and as they took on more responsibilities going forward the central midfielders became more defensive to provide balance. The conclusion was Gilberto Silva - a converted centre-back with limited passing skills - spending a decade in the middle of midfield".

Tim, somehow i dont agree with this statement. Brazil's attacks may have been carried by quickbreaking, attack minded full backs like Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Maicon and Alves, but this did not necessarily result in the central midfielders becoming more defensive. Gilberto Silva,Emerson and Dunga were excellent defensive midfielders but more recently Brazil does not seem to produce this kind of players anymore. Melo and Sandro may come to mind, but while the former had a poor world cup, the latter is still finding his feet in Europe. This probably explains why Gilberto Silva, at 33 and playing in one of Europe's weaker leagues was still an integral member of Brazil's world cup squad.
Tim to provide further evidence of your point, could you tell us about any defensive minded Brazilian player's?

#27 'Derby somehow has the largest Ukrainian population in the United Kingdom' - thanks for that..explains choice of venue for the friendly.

It makes complete sense for Brazil to 'turn the clock back' and pass the ball around. After all, by choosing to pass, pass and then pass again, Spain have become European and World champions!

Their (Spain's) one weakness - maybe because of Torres lack of form - was in scoring. In too many games they scored just 1 goal.

I can't see Brazil having that same problem.

They could be unstoppable in 2014.

Re read my comments carefully. I did say "over the last football cycle leading to the World Cup finals in South Africa, you continually contrasted Brazil's style with Argentina's." This particular article by Tim is a culmination of several all on a similar theme. Brazil being somehow wrong to adopt pragmatic tactics and Argentina being right to play the typical south american passing game. Now with a new coach who perhaps has returned to playing a more passing game, Tim is now happy and pleased. However, there is no guarantee that Brazil will succeed playing this way. It is one thing to beat USA right after a World Cup tournament and quite another to win a World Cup tournament. The tactical use of the foul to stop the rhythm and flow of the game, first muted by Helmut Schon (can't find my umlaut key)after Brazil's triumph in 1970 and now widely adopted, and the increasing use of defensive stifling play and counter attacking after the Italians succeeded playing this way in 1982 means that it is in fact the team that seeks to pass its way to goal that is more likely to succeed. Of course FIFA has rightly worked hard to clamp down on foul play by instructing referees to issue more yellow and red cards but sophisticated coaches and players find a way around this by taking turns to foul and as we saw in the World Cup final, just one weak or incompetent referee could turn a game on its head.

A few yeas ago, even when Brazil "were world champions at senior, Under-20 and Under-17 levels," Tim was still quite critcal frequently inferring that Argentina produced the more skilful footballers and Brazil only produced big and strong athletes even though those same athletes were winning FIFA tournaments. There will always be a element of luck with winning the World Cup because that is simply the nature of football. Who would believe that Germany would go over 20 years and counting without winning the World Cup after they succeeded in 1990 and were beaten finalists in 1986 and 1982? Or that Argentina despite the many talented players they manage to produce would go 24 years and counting without succeeding at the World Cup? Or even that England despite a first world infrastructure and a first world economy would go 48 years without winnng?

Nice blog as usual Tim, great read.

It's quite a contrast to what Capello is doing; building a team for the future of Brazil rather than sticking with oldies which is what Don Fabio is doing. However what if Brazil were to be playing in qualifiers of any sort? Would Mano Menezes risk with the same strategy or we'd have seen the likes of Kaka and co being called for the big occassion?

"...means that it is in fact the team that seeks to pass its way to goal that is more likely to succeed. Of course FIFA has rightly worked hard to clamp down on foul play by instructing referees..."

Sorry I meant to type "it is infact the team that seeks to pass its way to goal that is less likely to succeed."

YorkshireEnigma: The best thing about it is that unlike the Premier League, I don't get that sick feeling because so many of the players are overpaid, egotistical, mercenaries with no morals and massive overblown senses of self entitlement.
---------------

Stupid statement. What you watch in Brazil is the very worst of the lot when it comes to overblown mecenaries. Every single one of those players would sell their club down the river for a shot at even a mediocre Euro league. You only have to look at the number who are willing to trade their roots away for places in mid-table Ukranian or Norwegian legaue teams.

It's quite a contrast to what Capello is doing; building a team for the future of Brazil rather than sticking with oldies which is what Don Fabio is doing.
----------------

More silly comments.

Capello has brought Hart, Johnson and Jagielka into the team with Wilshire also in the squad. The only other young player who is anywhere near good enough is Carroll and he is better served leading the line for the U-21s at the moment (I feel Wilshire would be as well). The likes of Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and co will continue in teh team until someone better comes along and rightly so.

#39 Hackerjack,

"What you watch in Brazil is the very worst of the lot when it comes to overblown mecenaries. Every single one of those players would sell their club down the river for a shot at even a mediocre Euro league. You only have to look at the number who are willing to trade their roots away for places in mid-table Ukranian or Norwegian legaue teams."

Number of Brazilians currently plying their trade in the Norwegian top flight: 3

Number of Brazilians having played in the Norwegian top flight since its inception in 1937: 16

Hardly a massive influx of Brazilian "mercenaries"...

(For the record, only one of those 16 has made any significant impact in Norwegian football: left-footed playmaker Alanzinho (27) led Stab忙k to the 2008 League title. He's now with Trabzonspor in Turkey.)

Great blog. I have a vaguely related question...

Is it normal for Brazilian teams to basically be quite poor but with one or two superstars? All teams have star players but the gap in quality between them and the rest of the team is not quite so massive as I found in Brazil. My Brazilian step-brother supports Santos and only ever talks about Robinho and Neymar. And when I went to watch Coxa (who are a bit like West Brom and yoyo between divisions, I'm told), I was astounded by how awful ten of the players were when compared to the number 7, who dribbled past opponents with ease and created numerous chances for his bumbling team-mates to miss. Is this the case everywhere, and is it possibly a bad thing in that these star players might get too set in the mindset of being a 'one-man-team'?

I'm fairly clueless about Brazilian football; do correct me if my short stay there has given me entirely the wrong impression. The game I saw could easily have been a one-off, after all.

Counter-attacking football is a cancer which affects a lot more South American teams (Paraguay & Uruguay still believe in it)... only Chile & Argentina under Batista are doing away with this concept. Brazil is still taking baby-steps to implenting a "short-pass" game but they're not there yet, by 2014 who knows... Tim, I'm still waiting for Brazil to re-cap Diego Souza, what's going on with that guy? he's about as popular as the ebola virus --- first he moves to Atletico Mineiro and now the team is hovering in the relegation zone. Souza needs to move to a bigger side (I'm thinking Flamengo or Cruzeiro).

#42, well you define how good a team is based on if worst player on the pitch. So, the fact Neymar, who seems to be a fantastic dribbler BTW (showed the same against USA in USA recently), can easily beat players of a lower division Brazilian side is to be expected. Add to the fact refs allow very little contact in Brazil, so players like Neymar and Robinho are even more dominant there.

However, Santos is 7th in the league and not a title contender. There are a few sides, namely Inter, Fluminense, Corinthians, and Cruzeiro that are better than Santos and others such as Gremio that aren't much worse. In Fact, when Santos lost Ganso (to injury), it became a much weaker side. Yes, that's how good Ganso is.. Imagine Riquelme style, but with more movement... They also lost Robinho and Andre (sold)), which pretty much ended their title bid.

# 42 and 44 good observations, I agree that Brazilian sides rely heavily on a couple of key players, and then have a host of mediocre journeymen - except perhaps for Flu, Corinthians, Cruzeiro and Internacional and maybe a couple of others that have more levelled squads.
That is how a sustainable improvement of the league could bring benefit to clubs - if they start to be able to hold on to the mass of squad players that come to be on fringe in Europe every year - forget Ronaldinhos and Kakas, think Felipe Melo, Baptista, Jo and Aurelio. This mass, I believe, could massively improve football playing in Brazil by providing just what you missed in the Coritiba (Coxa) game - reliable spines.
A second step would be maintaining longer the bigger stars.

There is a simple explanation for Brazil playing at Pride Park. It will give the Brazillian fans the chance to sing (after recent displays) - "It's just like watching Derby...."

47 - i'm sure they'll sing that if Brazil get thrashed

@43 "Counter-attacking football is a cancer which affects a lot more South American teams (Paraguay & Uruguay still believe in it)... only Chile & Argentina under Batista are doing away with this concept."

Unfortunately, that "cancer" affects a lot of teams (and not only South American) who are more concerned about not losing than about winning. The Swiss were a horrible example of this in the last World Cup.

On the other hand, Spain played attacking football and were criticised for playing too many passes. However, this was only due to the opposition just parking the bus and not even trying to play football, even the Germans did that and the Dutch don't even deserve a mention after their exhibition of Total Thuggery.

Spain vs Chile was a cracking game because both of them went for the win and it resulted in a fast, open and exciting game. Actually, Chile was the only team that did that against Spain.

Add to them Argentina as another team that plays attacking, attractive football. Sure, they need to correct a few things (namely getting a decent keeper and better defenders) but the philosophy is already there and they seem to have an actual coach now.

As for Brazil, they are too big a ship to turn around quickly. Their counterattacking style has actually been very successful post-1990, as far as trophies are concerned. The problem is that now they don't have the players who make the difference anymore (like Ronaldo and Romario). Next year's Copa America will be their first real test, it'll be interesting to see what strategy they adopt.

Interesting read Tim.

@23 re the threat to Brazil at the 2012 Olympics. Paraguay of course! They were 2004 Olympic Silver Medallists and although Brazil qualified for the 2008 tournament that was thanks to a certain Alexandre Pato.

2012 qualification is through the 2011 South American Youth Championships (Under 20s) in January in Peru.

The world is changing and everything is also changing including football. Therefore, BRAZIL is no longer the supper power in football. Any team can beat any team, Senegal can beat France, Wigan can beat chelsea, Getafe can beat Barcelona, Genoa can defeat Inter Milan and so on. Nothing to lose,

#50 Thanks for the heads up re:Paraguay :) Have the fixtures been announced yet?

Am I correct in thinking Brazil have only failed twice to reach the final of the South American Youth Championships (Under 20s) in the last 19 competitions....incredible record - must take youth football ultra seriously!?

As for the Pride Park game Tim, I assume it's classed as a Brazil home game? I appreciate the reason would be because a lot of their players are European based, but what do their own countrymen back in Brazil think of them playing so many friendlies 'away' in Europe? Does it generate more or less money for their National Association? Argentina seem to be doing the same but not as much..how does it effect their Fifa ranking points - do 'home' matches count when they aren't really at home?

@51 this is not quite correct. You have to separate international football from football at club level of course. There have been only 8 countries that have won the World Cup out of participting countries numbering over 100. Before Spain broke its duck in 2010, only 7 countries had previously won the cup and that included Uruguay whoose last win was before Jesus was born and once only winners like England and France. I bet you that the next World Cup winner will come from one of only 6 countries. Given the number of games played at internationl level, the odd fluke result here and there is to be expected. So Turkey went from finishing 3rd in one World Cup tournament to not qualifying for the next one and France went from not qualifying for one tournament to winning the next.

@52 No worries - it's normally taken more seriously in South America, partly because it is the qualifiers for the Olympics.

According to Wikipedia it is 23rd Jan - 13th Feb or 16 Jan - 6th Feb depending which part of the article you read?!?!

@53 "You have to separate international football from football at club level of course. There have been only 8 countries that have won the World Cup out of participting countries numbering over 100"

Correct, international and club football are totally different things. In fact, the current European champions at club level are from Italy, but they didn't have any italian players in their starting 11.

As for potential winners, yes, the next one will likely come out of a subset of previous winners.

We can safely discount Uruguay (football power once upon a very long time ago), England (odd fluke result, not to mention some gentleman from Azerbaijan) and France (golden generation evidently over).

Spain will likely go the way of France once their golden generation is over but they'll still be quite strong for the next WC.

That leaves us with Spain, Brazil, Argentina and the never to be underestimated Germans and Italians who although going through a slump cannot be trusted to stay down for too long.

But just like in South Africa, it would still be good to see someone new win it for a change, as long as they play the best attacking football and do not simply resort to counterattacks and/or karate Dutch style.

Just watched Iran vs Brazil, friendly,some lovely passing football, and Brazil could have been 4-0 up in the first 20 minutes.Daniel Alves free kick was awesome,just in the right hand top corner!!

The first international between those two teams,Pato and Robinho had their chances,lovely to watch just like my team Arsenal!!