大象传媒

Good column her mate. Would love to see more South American football on our screens as the skill and fighting ability that is evident amongst South American players could be transferred to youngsters on our own great isle.

What I would like to ask though, as a Football Manager afficionado, there are many players in this game that go on in the virtual simulation world to become greats but there are two players Sherman Cardenas(A Colombian who I believe was at Bucurumanga?) and a young Chilean called Nicolas Millian who is at Colo Colo, I wonder if these players are as up and coming as the game suggests? Do you know of these players at all or how they have performed/progressing?

i have good feeling about Ganso's career in Europe, he looks an intelligent guy!

Tim,

Great column. I think you're putting a bit too much weight on Ganso's performance at the U20 WC. That was pretty much before he broke out onto the Santos team. If you'll recall, he truly only solidified his role at Santos in last year's Paulista, where he built a rapport with Andre and Neymar. I think he's come a long way since then. Obviously the question at this point is how he will bounce back from his knee injury. Only time will tell but I think he is the rare talent who will be able to step it up at a higher level. He's matured a lot as a football player, although I do question his inner-circle, who are really trying to force him out with this whole Corinthians rubbish. That's not the right way to go about it.

I was looking forward to your views on the closing stages of Libertadores group play. These final set of games should be quite interesting and full of drama and there are some well known clubs facing possible early elimination.

A club which has really impressed me in group play has been Cruzeiro. What strikes me about how they play is how well they pressure the ball and then how they move so quickly from defense to attack. In that respect they are almost like a Marcelo Bielsa coached team and the pace they play at is rare for South American clubs and especially for one from Brazil. They embarrassed a pretty good Estudiantes team in both group games and if they keep playing with the same intensity and speed in the elimination stages they will be a difficult team to defeat.

I am looking forward to seeing how the elimination rounds will look, CONMEBOL does what I think is a good way to set up the teams, rather than doing a draw for the pairings, the group winners are seeded 1-8 based on total points accumulated in group play, if two clubs are even on points then goal difference and total goals are used to break a tie. Then the 2nd placed teams are seeded 9-16 using the same criteria. In the octave finals 1 plays 16, 2 plays 15, 3 plays 14, etc. so the pairings for the rest of the competition will be known by the end of this week. Unlike the European Champions League, teams from the same nation or even opponents from the same group are not barred from playing one another in the octave finals.

Right now it looks like Cruzeiro will be the top seed based on the 16 points they accumulated in group play. Presumably that will mean they will draw the weakest 2nd place qualifier but we all know once the elimination rounds start anything is possible.

Another team to keep an eye out for, Colo Colo, they may lack stars but since Americo Gallego took over as coach they have been very difficult to beat. As long as they do not lose at home to Cerro Porteno this week they will qualify out of their group.

This is when the Libertadores really starts to get interesting.

Soccer Futbol Forum:

What I would like to ask though, as a Football Manager afficionado, there are many players in this game that go on in the virtual simulation world to become greats but there are two players Sherman Cardenas(A Colombian who I believe was at Bucurumanga?) and a young Chilean called Nicolas Millian who is at Colo Colo, I wonder if these players are as up and coming as the game suggests? Do you know of these players at all or how they have performed/progressing?

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I remember these players players from an old Football Manager, but I tend to find that if the player isn't just as good in the next Football manager then it was miles off. That was from about 4 seasons ago so Millan should be about 19 by now and cardenas 25/26ish

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Their futures seem tied to one another, with some reports stating that Fiorentina are hoping to replace Pastore with Ganso


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Pastore plays for Fiorentina!


Great Blog again Tim

It has to be pointed out that Pastore plays for Palermo, not Fiorentina as the question says.

Hey Tim, great blog as usual. I wondered what your thoughts on Hernan Barcos of LDU Quito are? I think if Liga have are to win the Copa Libertadores this year he is will be integral. His performance against Godoy Cruz last Tuesday was incredibly strong in the second half, as he got the assist for the first goal and scored the sublime second for Liga. Also, how do you see Liga fairing in the latter stages?

Tim

Don't you think you are underestimating the Brazilian league a bit when you talk about Paulo Henrique?

Surely if you compare the time and space to the PL, the playmakers in Brazil can have a difficult time, but do you really think Serie A, La Liga are more "pressing" and "less-time-on-the-ball" leagues?

If you are talking about early 2000's I may agree with you, but since 2005-2006, the Brazilian league is improving in a fast and scary ratio. For example, Robinho had a much bigger impact at AC Milan compared to his impact on Santos (and he only played in the "easy" leagues which are state and copa do brasil). IMO, Ronaldo Lima had better matches at the same AC Milan than what he did at Corinthians.

Maybe Ganso will have an even easier time at Serie A than at Brazileir茫o? Since T.Silva impacted that league in a huge way, Hernanes playing out of position singlehandedly is taking mediocre Lazio to UCL, you may have to re-check your evaluation on Brasileirao being an "easy" or "time-to-think" type of league, if anything it has even more speed and tacticallity than most leagues in Europe

cheers

PS: I am talking about Robinho's recent passage, which occured in 2010, after the "boom" in the Brazilian league I talked about

I have a question for you Tim, do you ever get tired of someone asking you a question along the lines of "I saw this player on Football Manager and he looks really good, do you think he's gonna be a star..."

Or do you think a game like that can actually be a useful tool for people (and perhaps even clubs?).

13. At 23:23pm 18th Apr 2011, Carekoala wrote:
I have a question for you Tim, do you ever get tired of someone asking you a question along the lines of "I saw this player on Football Manager and he looks really good, do you think he's gonna be a star..."

Or do you think a game like that can actually be a useful tool for people (and perhaps even clubs?).

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It is a well known fact that EPL clubs have used this tool for scouting and unearthing of players. David Moyes is on record I'm sure somewhere of saying he has used/uses it. If it is good enough for 'the best league in the world' who's to say it hasnt been of use in other leagues such as Ukraine, Bulgaria, Russia where to us what would seem an abundance of non-descript South Americans ply their trade. Then these players are sold on for exorbitant profits. Who is to say that clubs can't learn a thing or two where these games have contributors from all around the world, in their own countries actullay giving players' attributes both current and potential? These computer games, have more input going into them from people who watch games in these countries than any football club can offer. I don't think even the Barcelona's, Manchester United's or even Shakhtar Donetsk's of the world could have the same knowledge of any league that these games provide, whether its the Brazilliant or the Vietnamese leagues

First time post, long time reader.

Great blog as usual tim.

I have a question about a youngster called adryan. I have heard contradicting reports today about this player. Have man utd signed him or not? (I know he's too young to come over straight away). I have heard he's a winger, but also compared to kaka?

13 - I know that certain clubs do use the game as a scouting tool. Everton pay the football manager creators to have access to the data base before anyone else.

#4- Cruzeiro has been easily the best team of the competition so far, in a group that looked very tough. But should be said Cuca's teams are known to fail at the big moments, influenced in part by the manager, who more often than not lacks emotional control.

#9- Oh, Tim, can't you go Wednesday instead, since I won't be working then? :)
I'll try to watch it at night, if it's possible.

Oh, and FM can certainly be a good tool to introduce new players to the world (I've first heard of a certain Zlatan Ibrahimovic there, for example, and he was a great goal scorer), but it's not 100% reliable by any means. One better use their own scouts before hiring the players.

I guess something liek FM can be a good starting point for scouts; send a scout to a country (such as brazil) use that tool to check out what it classes as high potential youngsters, then scout them thorough.

It can't hurt?

I have been visiting Brazil and managed to see a game at the olympic stadium between Fluminense and Nova Igua莽u. I was shocked to see less than 6000 supporters, this is less than some of the Mexican 2nd division teams i have seen. Is this normal Tim?

Sangre Azul; that is actually normal for those type of games.

Brazil has 2 "leagues" that run in a year, one is the national championship with all the teams in, the other is a state one, you went to see a state game, where most of the competition is on a much lower level than the national championships (and often most of the better players don't play some/most of the games) so they attract a less crowd.

To clarify; by all the teams I mean all the "top teams of Brazil", while the state championship has teams from for example the Sao Paulo state and so on.

@Tim

I am sure there are more than only 2 of us interested in seeing your opinions at Reda莽茫o SporTV.

@Sangre Azul: not only the Olympic Stadium Jo茫o Havelange (Engenh茫o) is a VERY unpopular stadium in Rio and most cariocas avoid it, as you watched a first division game of the Carioca (Rio de Janeiro) league, which is very poor imho, with a HUGE gap between the 4 big clubs (Fluminense, Botafogo, Flamengo and Vasco) and the others. A gap much wider than between than the existing between the big and small ones in Rio Grande do Sul, Paran谩, Minas Gerais and S茫o Paulo states.

Not only that, but Nova Igua莽u is one of the weakest teams in Rio de Janeiro state. It finished last in 2009, being relegated to Rio de Janeiro second division. It returned to the first division for the 2011 Rio de Janeiro league.


Nova Igua莽u DOES NOT plays the brazilian national league.

in other words, you saw a game of Fluminense, a first division club in Brazil, against a club that is much lower than Mexican 2nd division... its not even in any of the 4 national divisions of Brazil.

Its such a bad club that last year it was in the 2nd division... of Rio de Janeiro state league!

I remember a useful paraguayan midfielder called Nelson Cuevas when I played Championship Manager 5 or 10 years ago, whilst managing River Plate. I believe he popped up once in the World Cup, 2002 or 2006, but nothing since. I guess he never amounted to much in real life.

My girlfriend's family will be very happy that Junior made the second round, ahead of Gremio too.

There are some weird team names in this year's competition from Bolivia. Petrol East and one rather egotistical sounding Jorge Wilstermann. Do you know anything about these teams, Tim?

Long time no read, Tim! I've been rushed off my feet this time of the week for the last few months!

I'm ashamed to say as a City fan that I don't know much about Sorio. Wikipedia says he was at City from 2001, when Kevin Keegan was boss, and then under Stuart Pearce for a short while. At the time, I was living here in Japan without a computer, let alone the internet (makes a WORLD of difference now I have it!), and limited tv access. For the centre forward, you could read Nicholas Anelka, and Shaun Wright-Phillips as the right winger getting the ball in quickly. For the left winger, I'm not sure! Might KK have been an influence? The late goalsitis sounds more like Sven and my hometown team than anyone, through trying to cling onto a lead rather than kill off the game. Though KK wasn't averse to conceding late goals (e.g. as Newcastle boss at Liverpool), I'm not sure it was down to trying to defend leads. SP didn't have any leads to defend. It was usually 90 minutes of backs to the wall.

Keep up the good work.

#25, as a footnote, I see he got a diploma in science and Football from Liverpool John Moores University, and a UEFA A coaching licence from the English FA. Sounds like we might have rubbed off on him!

@ 14 and 15

It is ridiculous that you have suggested this.

Maybe it comes from the signings of Ibrahim Said and Ibrahima Bakayoko, which to some extent might need explaining in depth.

However it is highly damaging to suggest Everton use a computer game to scout for players. There are however strong links between the creators of the original game and Everton, in that they were supporters of the club. I also believe that as a result, the creators utilised their links to the club to acquire a network of scouts, some of whom employed by Everton to research players for their game.

In keeping with this Tim, it sometimes makes me wonder why Everton don't utilise the South American market in a way that Wigan have done over the last few years to pick up some real quality players. Maybe it dates back to the signing of Rodrigo in 2002. He got a terrible injury early into his loan deal but could you give any more info on this player, was he any good? Could he have made it in England? What happened since?

In reality, some of Moyes' best signings have come from extensive scouting and careful planning. Moyes followed Fellaini for two years before signing him on a club record transfer. Arteta was signed initially on loan, as was Pienaar before thier permanent signings. We were linked in the past with Adebayor, Cech and Essien a few years before they hit the big time. Brede Hangeland was on trial with the club in 2004, and although those deals never materialised it shows how good a network Everton has at identifying the talent. I certainly don't remember Cech, Essien, Adebayor or Hangeland being any good on Football Manager before they gained a recognised reputation.

@24 Nelson Cuevas has scored at two World Cups (twice v Slovenia in 2002 and v Trinidad/Tobago in 2006) and won league titles in both Argentina and Mexico (where he's spent the bulk of his career) - so perhaps somewhat unfair to suggest he "never amounted to much"...

@30 I did vaguely remember him getting on the scoresheet in 2002,. That's why I put his name out there, see if anyone had a more up-to-date memory of him. I agree my wording was a little harsh, I certainly didn't mean to paint him as a criminal waste of talent. But someone who scored at two world cups might have gone on to make a name for himself in european club football.
I see on Wikipedia he had a trial at FC Twente, without signing a contract, a fairly unsuccessful period at Santos and is currently back in Mexico. But clearly his best days were at River.

tomefccam, it was well documented a few years ago that Everton have (or at least had) an agreement with the FM developers to have full access to their players database, along with scouting reports.

You seem to look at it as a bad thing but why? I'm not saying a team should go straight out and buy all the supposed young talents that appear in FM but access to the database may highlight certain players that would be worth following up with the clubs own scouting department.

FM is highly successful, party because of the amount of time and effort they put into scouting players to make the game as realistic as possible (apparently they have over 1000 scouts). Obviously they will not be right all the time but I doubt that any club has such an extensive network of scouts so why not take advantage of a tool such as the FM database to expand your knowledge, especially in countries where you may not have a big scouting presence. This would allow you to allocate your scouting resources more effectively and if you dig up a player or two that you may never have found otherwise it would be very worthwhile!

Sorry, slightly off topic. Great article as usual Tim. I read it most weeks and think I am finally starting to unravel the complicated structure of football in South America.

As a Man Utd fan I have high hopes for the Da Silva twins and think that they can hold the full back slots for years to come (although obviously Fabio needs to dislodge Evra as first choice left back before that happens).

What do you think they chances are of them also being the first choice full back pairing for Brazil in the future? I am aware that Brazil are not exactly short of quality right backs but how long do you think it will be before Rafael gets a change to stake his claim? What about at left back? If Fabio can establish himself as a regular starter for Utd are there many players standing in his way at left back for Brazil?

I remember Osorio when he was at city. I'm sure he was a fitness coach - the players all used to rave about the new ways he did things - his innovative techniques that were based on building match fitness rather than simply doing 50 laps of a football field.

Saying all that, i'm not sure i recognised a significant improvement in fitness levels, although results weren't too bad. I wonder how many of his techniques live on at the club following his departure?

@ 27

'Damaging' to suggest Everton use the Football Manager database? The FM database is probably the most in-depth scouting tool in the world, and Everton do indeed have a deal in place with the creators to ensure they get the first look at it:

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@24 Oriente Petrolero was founded by workers of Bolivia's state oil company, they are from Santa Cruz in the east of the country. Club Jorge Wilstermann is named after Bolivia's first commerical pilot, it was founded by workers of the then national airline LAB (now deceased). The club is from Cochabamba where Wilstermann is a bit of a hero, the city's airport among other things is also named after him.

Good to know Bolivia's teams will be remembered somewhere for something, a lot of their football has hardly been memorable..... ;-)

Good blog as always Tim, as an expat in SA always nice to read a decent article about the game here in English as a change from local papers!

A great post as always Tim! I definitely believe it is a big loss that Jaime Ayovi and Joao Rojas are no longer in the Argentine team.. I certainly need a cardiologist during these games! But by the competition getting bigger, it's more enjoyable to watch the games than ever.

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#16-mengo2008- I absolutely agree with you that Cruzeiro have a recent history of not making the leap over the final hurdle, but doesn't that predate their current coach Cuca? Brandao the forward formerly with Marseille will become eligible once the octave finals start, it will be interesting to see how he fits into the team. But right now Cruzeiro have been a real delight to watch play and must be considered along with Internacional and perhaps Velez as favorites in the competition.

I see that Deco is hurt again and will not make the trip to Buenos Aires to play Argentinos. Watch out for Franco Niell, Argentinos pocket sized forward who is very good at finding space to head in goals. The guy can not be more than 1.65m tall yet he has numerous headed goals for his club this year in both league and Libertadores play.

I have great feeling about Ganso's career in Europe, he looks an intelligent a football player and I think he is the rare talent who will be able to step it up at a higher level.

Regarding Nelson Cuevas,

To me, Cuevas never quite fulfilled his potential. He was outstanding in the 2002 WC and for River he was the 鈥渟uper sub,鈥� always making a difference when coming in as a sub. I think leaving River for China was a huge mistake and after that he never really reached the next level.

Cuevas first caught my attention during the 1999 South American Under 20s championship, playing as a right back. In that tournament he played like a brazilian fullback. Amazing speed and dribbling skills, I thought he was the next Cafu!

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Good job in sharing.. I'll keep coming back to read more of your posts.

Hello Tim!

I listen to the World Football Phone-In every week. I had a question about a player from Sao Paolo - his name is Lucas da Silva. He is a 18 year old attacking midfielder. How good is he? Are the rumors of him moving to Man United true? How does he compare to Paizon who is at Chelsea?

@Scofield: he is much better than Piazon, specially because he is already tested in the U20 brazilian team and in the professionals of S茫o Paulo and professional competitions in Brazil, while Piazon only played U17 competitions and is not a professional yet at S茫o Paulo.


Plus, Lucas da Silva played the match against Scotland with the main brazilian team, and did very well... and he also did very well in the South American U20 championship which Brazil won this year.

some youtube links to Lucas Moura da Silva

Great stuff as usual Tim!

What do you think of Independiente's younger players right now? Do any of them have the potential to make it in Europe? I'm thinking of Leonel Galeano, Julian Velazquez, and Patricio Rodriguez in particular. All three were very instrumental in their Copa Sudamericana win in the winter. Velazquez is a bit short, perhaps, but Galeano is definitely big enough to be a commanding CB in Europe, I think. Patricio Rodriguez is a very exciting player for me but I don't think he's European material. He just uses his speed to get by defenders, which may work in Argentina, but wouldn't work in the faster European leagues. He also never uses his left foot. His preferred place on the field is the left wing where he can cut in, but he doesn't cross very well. What do you think?

Once Caldas made it through comfortably against Universidad San Martin (is this the good team with only 300 strong crowds?) Inter are through too.

Up to Fluminense and Santos to up their game tonight.

About Libertadores, Cruzeiro and Santos are the best Brazilian teams, but Internacional is strong as well

Thoughts about the participation of Brazilian in the Barca-Madrid that happened today: