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Universidad de Chile would have to win the Copa Libertadores next season which for seems unlikely. With regards to Santos, i believe they can win the world club cup as this maybe their only opportunity in a long while. If both Santos and Barca get knocked out at the semis then that would be interesting:)

I don't understand the title of this piece.
La U and Barcelona are playing in different tournaments, where is the showdown?

2.
At 15:03 12th Dec 2011, bosterososvigilante wrote:


I don't understand the title of this piece.
La U and Barcelona are playing in different tournaments, where is the showdown?

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I believe Tim has alluded to the fact in the past that 大象传媒 sub editors title his piece while he writes the text. Whoever wrote the headline hasn't read his article properly. It should be either 'Santos prepare for Barca showdown' or 'Santos and Universidad de Chile both facing big games', whatever they prefer. They've ballsed up.

I really wish South America could hold onto its players for longer!

This is probably the strongest side they have put against us in years, its almost a shame its against a side of barcelona's quality as they may find themselves in a very strange position chasing Xavi and Iniesta and end up looking bad, which would put them in good company I suppose!

Saying that, Neymar could cause chaos if they can isolate him with a single barca defender. IN that respect, Ganso is going to be utterly vital in feeding him.

Santos don't stand a chance against Barcelona. Neymar, Gantso and Elano, will see so little of the ball to exert any influence on the game. Brazilian sides wilt when denied of ball possession. If both sides meet in the final the game will be Barca's to lose.

Great article. As for if Santos face Barca there is only one real outcome, as Barca have already proven and fantastic players. Santos have an amazing amount of potential. Will be interesting to watch Neymar though, as Barca's defence is far from the best. Problem always is that you need the ball to attack.

Santos have to negotiate Kashima Reysol of Japan in a semi-final, while Barcelona face Al Sadd of Qatar.

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The team is called KASHIWA Reysol not Kashima. That's a completely different side.

I think Santos should win that game. The problem with Kashiwa is that they have been playing pretty much non-stop since May. Because of the earthquake and tsunami back in March, the league had to suspend the first few months of the season and scrap the routine summer break. As such, Kashiwa have had to fight in the league, league-cup and still have the Emperors Cup to play for in the coming weeks. All very tough on the old legs.

I think as you've said in the past Tim, Santos have been preparing for this match for months now, whereas for Kashiwa its just another match on a very long and tiring season.

But I still have no idea why this match is being played in Toyota though. Okay, its the home of the sponsors but part of me feels like they had already thought Nagoya would win the title and would be able to sellout the stadium. It would have made more sense for them to have both Santos and Barca camped in Yokohama/Tokyo and at least allow Kashiwa fans the chance of not having to travel across the country to watch their matches. Very poor scheduling imo. The semis and final should have been in Yokohama with the playoffs and first round matches in Toyota.

Although perhaps the Tokaido route from Chiba to Aichi is 'fun-to-drive'.... *boom-boom*

Inteligent and fun to read blog Tim! Long time reader.

Question for you. As a big fan of the Valderrama Colombia side I know they had certain aspects of "total football" like a high defensive line, intricate passing, etc. but I also heard that they had players rotating positions frequently like the Netherlands in the 70s. Is that true?

Thanks.

Tim, I think those four sides (Brazil '82, Holland '74, Hungary '54 and Brazil '50) are among the greatest teams ever to grace the World Cup competition, irrespective of winning or losing.
As far as 'on paper' is concerned, there shouldn't be any doubt that Santos will progress to the final and lose to Barcelona. However, football has its own logic, and potential upsets are only a moment away (look at Spurs' demise at Stoke on Sunday). I dread the thought that they might fall to Kashiwa, who I think might be more dangerous adversaries than Monterrey would have been, because of the different and energetic style of the Japanese game.
However, I agree that Neymar, Ganso and Elano will be the key to scoring against Barcelona, although Brazilian striker of the year Borges deserves a mention, as his form has been impressive - an innate goalscoring talent! And if Danilo gets a chance to get near goal he is able to unleash some powerful and well-placed shots.
But as you say, it all comes down to how much of the ball they will see. With defensive cover Adriano out injured, fullbacks Jonathan and Alex Sandro sold to European clubs and the hugely talented L茅o a little slow in defence, Arouca will have his work cut out protecting the centre of defence, which has been Santos' big problem throughout the latter half of this year.
Let's hope both teams are able to display the talent that has made them the outstanding sides in their respective continents and turn it into a final that will stay long in people's memories - for all the right reasons!

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

pointless competition. If it is to have prominence, it should be held at the end of the season.

Yes, Barca will be firm favorites. But as we all know surprising results happen all the time (England 1-0 Spain) and if Santos can get the ball in advanced possitions for any sort of time, then Neymar, Ganso and Elano can hurt them.
Barca can be got at, as their defense is a little slow but as mentioned before, Santos have to actually get the ball first!
In the Champions League Final, Manchester United had them wobbling for the first 15 mins and Rooney scored a very good goal.
Should be a great game.

Great piece as ever, and so out of place on this website - though whisper that bit because they'll probably try and dumb you down to fit in. Agree that the spaces behind the Barca line look very inviting, but I've seen better teams than Santos fail to get close to exploiting them. No doubt the World Cup will be almost completely ignored yet again by English TV, but I for one will be rooting for the Sth Americans.

@11 - It is at the end of the season. Its at the end of the Japanese season and at the end of the Brazilian season for one.

Watching Santos, I'd give them a chance of an upset, Neymar given the opportunity will definitely trouble Barca because they are tailor made for him.

For me, This is probably the strongest side they have put against us in years, its almost a shame its against a side of barcelona's quality as they may find themselves in a very strange position chasing Xavi and Iniesta and end up looking bad, which would put them in good company I suppose! Saying that, Neymar could cause chaos if they can isolate him with a single barca defender. IN that respect, Ganso is going to be utterly vital in feeding him. Regards

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I think it is very difficult for us to seek an other site with more information like your one.

Not sure whether it was you or the Guardian I was reading following their emotional reunion in Bilbao a month or so ago Tim, that told how Guardiola flew over to Argentina at the outset of his coaching career to meet his mentor. With Universidad doing well, seems like Bielsa's methods have quite a bit of merit, not only in entertainment value.

Japanese football continues to grow, underlined by the impact of players like Kagawa and Honda in Europe, but with being out on a limb over here, it's difficult to gauge the level of J1 and J2. I saw bits of Kashiwa's game against Monterrey was it? And during that time, initially, the home team looked under the cosh, so was a little surprised to hear they got to penalties, let alone go through. I expect Barcelona to take this game seriously as this competition's profile seems to be growing, and therefore it increasingly serves a purpose for global branding. I think they will be a different kettle of fish to what Sunday's opponents were. Maybe European clubs haven't traditionally taken these tournaments so seriously in the past, but I wonder whether such words sometimes come from a few sensitive defeated egos.

Have mentioned it before, but I would love to see Bielsa coach in England. Not sure he'd be so inclined, but wouldn't it be worth a sleeping giant taking a chance? The worst that could happen is that they end up where they started.

Aarfy_Aradvark. Good comments. May I add Reysol were not to expected to win the League, but they have and are going on with it. They seem to be enjoying the lime light, the are well organised and I think at least they will give Santos a good game!

Barcelona seems to be unbeatable with those big guns from America now!

@ 10: Yes, the South Americans take their competition with Europe very seriously, which is why it has rankled so much that all their talent has been heading to Europe at an increasingly young age. The trend seems to be slowing now though. I was frankly embarrassed by Liverpool's display back in....1981 I think it was. Looked like they were out for a kickaround on the beach and Flamengo ran rings round them. It was a great Flamengo side, but I'd been expecting Liverpool to at least make a match of it!

This blog is full of South American Football fans. I'm going to voice the opinion of Barcelona fans...

- Neymar is good , I've seen him play - but he is an uncut diamond.

- I just read "Barcelona's defence is slow" - they beat the fastest attacking team in the world at the weekend and as I said Neymar's good but he's no C.Ronaldo who Puyol at +34yrs. kept quite.

Its Barcelona's to lose - they need a single one of Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Sanchez, Villa, Fabregas to turn up on the night (of the final) to win.

@3

I thought that one of the duties a sub-editor might have before titling a piece is actually reading it!

Typical 大象传媒 bias.

Tim, I'd like to know your thoughts on the Brazilian influence at Kashiwa. Their coach, Nelsinho Baptista, has made history by taking Kashiwa to successive J2 and J1 titles, despite heavy pressure from Gamba Osaka and Nagoya Grampus. He has a pretty good track record in the J. League but seems to have achieved little in his homeland - would this be fair to say?

Their star player, and J1's best player this season, is right-winger Leandro Domingues, with another Brazilian, Jorge Wagner, supplying creativity and fierce shooting on the left. I've glanced at their career histories and they both seem to have had middling careers back home. Could you shed any further light on their pre-Japan careers?

As another poster pointed out, Kashiwa have had a crazy schedule, with the games postponed in the wake of the Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami squeezed into the hot, humid summer months and the league only won last Sunday, plus the 2 subsequent games against Auckland City and Monterrey. This fatigue could well be their downfall, particularly if they fall behind early. Another player to look out for is the RB Hiroki Sakai - an exciting attacking prospect who links up well with Leandro down the right. Looking forward to the game!

@1. Why do you think la "U" won't be able of winning la libertadores? I think universidad has great chances, even more if they can find a striker like Vargas who is probbably going to Europe next season.
For me la "U" is by far the best club in south America this days, even more than Santos, and you can notice that by watching them play. As Tim said, the game against Vasco in Brazil that should have endded 7-0 was indeed the football highlight of the year.

It's worth pointing out that Santos finished a lowly 10th in Brasil's Serie A this season, winning 15, losing 15 and drawing 8. I wouldn't expect them to beat Barcelona.

Tim, are you suggesting that a team pulled by Elano may be a threat to Barcelona? The same Elano - journeyman from Russia who could not make the starting 11 of a poor City side a few years ago? If anything, Santos will be pulled by Gnaso. Neymar is one for the future.
Barca, if they score early, will beat Santos 5-1.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

@19 - I'm a Kawasaki supporter and have a bit of a soft spot for Kashiwa. When he had the chance of winning the league title back in 2009, the Kashiwa fans were absolutely amazing on that day despite being relegated back to the J2. They've always been something of a yo-yo club but one thing that always intrigues me is how well clubs are supported in Chiba.

Again, such a shame to see JEF down there. Hopefully they will be back soon and start competing again. A great club with great fans.

@26 - And if you bothered to read Tim's previous statements on this - he will tell that you that Santos have pretty much switched off for the latter part of the season once the title was out of reach. They have been preparing for this match for months now and have been going through the motions in the Brazilian Championship. Already qualified for the Copa Lib next year - therefore nothing to play for domestically.

Wednesday should be avery interesting day with Santos playing Kashiwa Reysol and U de Chile facing Liga de Quito. Santos well remember the embarassment Internacional suffered by losing to TP Mazembe and thereby becoming the first South American club to fail to reach the World Club Cup Final. Despite Barcelona's brilliance, Estudiantes gave them all they could handle 2 years ago in the final, Santos have the offensive ability to cause Barcelona some troubles but without Adriano to help the energetic Arouca out in shielding the back line, I do wonder how Santos will defend vs Barcelona. First things first though and they must defeat Kashiwa. Kashiwa's Jorge Wagner was playing for Santos' rival Sao Paulo earlier this year and their coach Nelsinho Baptista is a former player and coach for Santos so the Japanese club will know Santos well.

As for the Copa Sudamericana final as a native rosarino I have to point out how both finalists coaches have ties to the city, Jorge Sampaoli played in Newell's youth system and is a disciple of Newell's very own Marcelo Bielsa while Liga's Edgardo Bauza was a well know player for rivals Rosario Central. I like to think of U de Chile's first leg win as being one for Newell's over Central too! ;)

One can not help but be impressed with the energy that U de Chile play. They really are a treat to watch and with Liga obligated to go forward, there should be space for La U to counter attack. Liga however are a veteran, battle hardened team and I would not expect Hernan Barcos to again miss chances like he did in leg 1.

@PulpGrape #26 - As Tim alluded to and as somebody previously mentioned, this world club championship is all important to South American teams and especially those in Brazil. Santos did not struggle to finish 10th, they fielded a weakened team to give their stars a rest in the run up to this tournament. It is THAT important to them.

@A wet windy night in Stoke #27 - Think you're being a bit harsh on Elano. He is more than a journeyman player and regularly carried the Man City team that he played in. I remember him beating a solid and resolute Everton defence and winning the game singlehandedly for a then average City. Also recall him being the difference between Brazil and Argentina when they met at the Emirates stadium in London a few years ago. Decent player.

My mate Jas Notta is happy to fund the purchase of Neymar for any premier league club in exchange for being made match mascot. However I think Neymar is too highly rated, and Jordi Gomez of Wigan is a more complete player.

Are LDU in another altitude fueled continental final?.................Yawn.

Why does the rest of the world not care about these titles again..............................?

Well the first part went OK for Santos this morning, 3 very nice goals.

Tim, there was a member of that SUB-20 team that took his own life a few years ago. And I thought it was Markic. Obviously it wasn't him if you say he was coaching Tigre. But do you remember who it was?

35.
At 13:55 14th Dec 2011, lordgormly wrote:
35. At 13:55 14th Dec 2011, lordgormly wrote:
Tim, there was a member of that SUB-20 team that took his own life a few years ago. And I thought it was Markic. Obviously it wasn't him if you say he was coaching Tigre. But do you remember who it was?
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You must be thinking of someone else in another squad, because all of the 1997 Argentina U-20 squad are still very much alive, including Markic and Serrizuela. You can check the others here:

@ 26: Santos spent the first half of the Brazilian championship trying to balance it with their Libertadores commitments. Brazilian teams are novices at this and don't have the squads to be able to cope with such conflicting demands. Consequently, they even flirted with the relegation zone and were pretty drained by the time they won the continental title. They then found themselves obliged to sell some good players (Jonathan and Alex Sandro), since the financial demands of keeping together the entire team were beyond the club's resources. They nevertheless managed to string together an unbeaten run that lifted them from 16th (after 15 games) to 8th (after 23 games, just 8pts behind the leaders on a games played basis) before tiredness, injuries and a couple of unexpected defeats made them realise that the sheer effort required to go after the title (as champions they were already automatically qualified for next year's Libertadores, so top 4 wasn't necessary) could jeopardise their next important goal, of the World Club Championship. So they took their foot off the pedal. Nevertheless, I agree with your conclusion that they aren't, at least on paper, a match for Barcelona. But you can say that about any team in the world today. Yet Bar莽a still lose the occasional game. Who knows?

@ 27: no Tim's talking about the Elano who was an underappreciated but vital and versatile ingredient of Santos title-winning sides, a hero at MC until they brought in a new manager who ostracised him and was Brazil's best player in the WC 2010 (and whose absence against Holland was the biggest reason they lost. Even now, as a veteran back at Santos, he has played an important role in their state and Libertadores title winning teams, despite experiencing some dire personal challenges during the period. Santos isn't in this competition because they've got Neymar and Ganso (who I agree must be on top form if they are to have any chance of beating Bar莽a), but because they also have Elano, Arouca, Borges, Danilo, L茅o, Raphael, Durval....all of whom have played vital roles in their success this year...even Edu (shame they've lost Jonathan and Alex Sandro and Adriano is injured!).

Vox populi thanks for the return must have been someone from another sub-20 team, coz I do remember the news on Diario deportivo Ole. Maybe from the 1995 team.