大象传媒

Nice Blog Tim.

Come on Boca!!

Cue the weekly Tim love-in...

Has it occurred to anyone that the only reason this is considered to be the best football blog on the 大象传媒 is because hardly anyone among the readership is qualified to challenge the opinions offered?

This is no personal attack because I read it every week and it's always well presented and articulate but with all the bile that some of the other writers have to put up with, it strikes me that the only reason this one doesn't suffer the same fate is that no-one is really in a position to disagree...

The world club cup final should be interesting....not!

No. 2 - Cue the Tim love in.. how could you not with his laid back profile pic!!

As for the football, for no logical reason I have a soft spot for Boca and hope they win.

So there

Just curious Tim. I know it would be a first for Corinthians (and routine for Boca) but for whom would this Copa win be bigger? What do you speculate to be the long-term implications of winning this Copa Libertadores for each team?

Re 2. At 12:45 25th Jun 2012, nikolaybollukov

No-one has the knowledge to slate the author - shouldn't this be the case for all articles?!

As it happens, I come here as much to read the comments as to read the article. There are so many excellent, knowledgeable commentators on Tim's blogs.

I'm too early today, and don't have much to add, save that I am interested in hearing more about Brazilian academies and grassroots football.

@nikolaybollukov

Actually, there are quite a few south americans, usually argies and brazilians, posting here. I am one of them.

The reason Tim gets less flak is that he is better than other bloggers, and is usually right. I said USUALLY, not always. I have disagreed with his opinons a number of times.

I even suspect Tim is not an englishman anymore when it comes down to weather. He is a CARIOCA. In his latest Football Phone Ins he has been saying that it gets GENUINELY COLD in the south of Brazil, during the World Cup 2014 months.

Oh come on Tim. It gets genuinely cold for cariocas! I guess most europeans will be able to confortably wear t-shirts in the 8-10 celcius temperatures common at Porto Alegre winter afternoons. Yup, it dropped below zero just two weeks ago, but those temperatures are in early morning!

You europeans reading this blog: do NOT worry. It does not gets cold enough for most europeans, even in southern Brazil. As for Canadians and Russians? 5 celcius is perfect swimming weather, isnt it?

@7 AcesHigh

Almost as good as the blog itself!

BTW, Tim, thanks for updating us on Tigre; although I don't know anything about them, I'm glad they didn't go down.

As a Banfield fan, I'm gutted with the relegation but the writing has been on the wall since Falcioni left and took half the team with him. The chairman has been cutting his losses ever since and the future looks very bleak. Most of the sides from the capital have severe debt and as a result the teams from the rest of the country are replacing them. AFA need to have a long look in the mirror but as long as it has Boca-River and can send the national team to play expensive 'friendlies' around the world, it is unlikely to change. It also gets a nice cheque from the government who use the advertisement space for propaganda. I wish Boca Juniors well in the final but in winning the cup it shouldn't be taken as a sign of strength of the Argentine league

@2

I think Tim doesn't have to 'put up with the bile' because:

- He's consistent, articulate and objective. The crowd he attracts generally recognise and appreciate this, and while you may be partially right that he's more knowledgeable on south american football than most of the responders, @7 did point out that a number of the responders are from south america.

I think the secret may be that Tim has found a way to be strong on the issues, yet rise above the partisan.

And for that, he deserves a 'love-in'.

I think I want Boca to win it, would be great for Riquelme and Schiavi to go out on a high - also Boca will be fired up having lost out on the league, if they were to lose out on this too the season could be seen as a disappointment.

I wrote about Corinthians a couple of times earlier on in the tournament when they faced Nacional of Paraguay, at the time I saw them as the most organised of the Brazilian sides that had crossed Paraguayan opposition (Flamengo and Vasco being the other two) so in a way it isn't a surprise to see them get to the final even without a superstar name like 'Neymar' or 'Ronaldinho'.

Beautiful sentiment #2, how sad that you want to spread the bile around! Tim has been writing quality articles for World Soccer for as long as I can remember, he is not new to this lark. Also the quality of respondent always used to be really high, particularly back when everyone else was baiting each other on 606...

Sounds like it could be a tight final Tim, although I'm sure the 2 beaten semi-finalists would've given us a more open tie. Although you can't argue with these 2 giants squaring off, what a brilliant match. Wish I could see it - one of these days I'll get a Premier sports subscription! Keep up the good work Tim!

Tim, please allow me to disagree with you regarding the origins of Corinthians.
In the first paragraph after the picture, you said that Corinthians is a product of the Italian immigration to S茫o Paulo. Actually, its founders were mostly Spanish immigrants. Not only that, when Palestra Italia (team that changed its name to Palmeiras afterwards due to the World War II) was founded, the majority of Italian immigrants changed sides, to follow the club more connected to their motherland.

Lebanese and Japanese origin? Really? From where did you take this?

A bit off-topic, but regarding clubs origins... I dont know if I already sent you this Tim, but check it out:

a flyer of the first match between Gr锚mio and Internacional, in 1909.

Most Gr锚mio players, as well as most referees, linesman, etc, are germans or german-descendants. Gr锚mio is not alone at that. Most sport clubs in Porto Alegre at the time, from rowing to gymnastics were german... most still exist, but changed their names in World War 2, when Get煤lio Vargas forbid names related to Germany and Italy. Ever heard of SOGIPA in Porto Alegre? Original name was "Deutscher Turnerbund Sch眉tzverein"

Tim, look this article... by the great-great-nephew of Arthur Lawson, the guy who brought football to Rio Grande do Sul and co-founded (along with a german), Sport Club Rio Grande, the oldest football club in Brazil


and here the link to the flyer of the first grenal

Great post , Tim

para aqueles que querem debater s茅riamente os problemas do futebol brasileiro

Unfortunately this year's Libertadores echoes European football: who doesn't dare wins.

It has been fascinating watching the Euros: Greece, the Czech Republic and Jordan Henderson have combined style, finesse and quality to deliver a memorable spectacle, with terrific cameos from Ukraine, Poland, Sweden and other big-hitters.

Cristiano Ronaldo, Xavi and Iniesta have been very, very good, but if you want to watch the rest of the world's ten best players look up on YouTube yesterday's Messi All-Star match in Miami: Drogba, Messi, Suarez, Cavani et al served up a treat in the rain.

I have tickets for me and my Son for Brasil v Egypt at the Millennium Stadium here in Cardiff on the 26th of July. Yes, I am 'doing' the Olympics.

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Chelsea's announcement that David Luiz is in Brazil's Olympic squad means that their three overage players include two centre-backs (Luiz and Thiago Silva) plus Hulk. Under'23 teammates will include Neymar, Ganso, Leandro Damiao, Sandro and Rafael.

Looks like Menezes followed Tim's advice to omit Marcelo.

9 - Tim, 8 to 10 degrees celsius in southern Brazil is not seen as bad at all. Temperature today at 7 am was 11 degrees in Curitiba (one of 2014 WC venues). Maximum temperature is predicted to be 17-18 degrees. No big deal for us but terrible to any carioca. Last sunday had similar temperatures but was sunny and there were lots of people at the parks.

16 - By the beginning of the 20th century, about 40% of S茫o Paulo's population was of immigrants (e.g., Europeans, Lebanese, Japanese, etc.). The immigrant museum in S茫o Paulo has released about 70000 digital documents at their website. Quite interestingly there is a picture of a newspaper printed in Spanish in S茫o Paulo (although we speak Portuguese). It is mostly in Portuguese but you can check it at:

I am Corinthians fan and this should be a very tense final.

I have little knowledge of Boca, but it is safe to say that at the Bombonera they are always very very strong. In fact, I think Tim would agree that their stadium is perhaps the one in which the pressure is really felt by both teams. The sound, the chanting and the perceived influence of the stadium on the away and home team are huge.

That being said, comparing teams I think Corinthians is quite ahead of Boca both in terms of organization and individual players. Our back 4 are by far the strongest in Brazil having played together for around 2 seasons now and consistently conceding the least amount of goals in any competition they play in, be it State, National or international Championships.

The team as a whole has played together for the most part for around 2 seasons and most importantly of all the philosophy has maintained its basics since Mano Menezes. That is of a team built on 2 very strong and versatile defensive midfielders (Christian and Elias, Jucilei and Elias, Jucilei and Ralf, and now Ralf and Paulinho) and a complete commitment from the whole team, especially wingers, to follow your man and be defensively solid.

I think that is Corinthian's greatest asset, whereas Boca will rely on the confidence of playing at home and their infinitely superior record at the Libertadores, Corinthians will rely on the undeniable confidence of 4 seasons of success based on a core of players and a mentality that suits the club very well.

Corinthians to win, with the 1st leg being rather dirty because that's what happens at the Bombonera and the second to be very tense all the way to the end.

However, if Corinthians get a 1st away goal, I will be celebrating because this team does not concede regardless of the pressure and relishes in the opportunity to counter attack, and has the individual quality to execute this very well.

I manged to get to the La Casa Blanca at the weekend for the Liga vs Deportivo Quito game. Compared to the Atahaulpa it is a palace. There is no deep, ditch nor Olympic running track around the pitch and even the obligatory fence is a net rather than wire mesh.

The experience is much closer to the UK matches.

.

I still think the Libertadores should be a one off game in a neutral or pre-decided venue. I can understand the argument over travel and cost but this hasn,t seemed to stop away supporters travelling the long distances in previous competitions although admittedly not in huge numbers.

Although i would hate the final to be outside the continent ,with the majority of Brazil and Argentina friendly gamesnow being held outside of South America, I think money will dictate the future and we may see the finals of the Libertadores and Suda-America being held in Europe or North America.

I think a one off game brings more parity to the match and the Libertodores favours the teams in Brazil. The quarter final qualifiers is a testament to this.

Tim, next time make a comparasion to an english club. Otherwise... look above... only 24 posts so far...

2 - I'm Brazilian and I can tell you this blog is the best football blog I've found on the Internet in a long time. Its contents about South American football are better than any Brazilian blog I know.

It will all come down to how Riquelme plays. If he's fit, he'll lift this very average Boca team to another level. Boca is Boca and history is on their side.

Hopefully Corinthians, being their first final, won't be overwhelmed by the occasion or the opposition, as it was the case in the semifinals with Universidad de Chile who saw the Boca shirt and fell to pieces... despite having had a great campaign until then.

In any case, just imagine one of these two teams taking on Chelsea for the Club World Cup...cure for insomnia...guaranteed...with Chelsea parking the proverbial bus and the other team playing the counterattacking game...yawn

With recent reports of Florent Malouda being linked to a move to brazil, a place he has always wanted to play, do you think his move would be successful? As a chelsea fan myself i do not rate the guy, technically not very good and his lack of pace is worrying.

As for the guy who talked about chelsea parking the bus v Boca or Corinthians, don't be silly the gulf in standard between the teams is so great, they are not Bayern or Barca. Also with the fact that chelsea's style of play will be changing this year, i can't see us doing much defending against either of these average teams when looking at in in perspective to the quality of players.

Also about the weather, when i was in Curitiba it was cold like Tim was saying, very English weather conditions, grey and raining often.

Corinthians win for me.

I was afraid that the over-zealous (or should that be anal?) 大象传媒 moderators would remove any response referring to said headline Tim....

Unfortunately the average British football fan isn't particularly interested in broadening their horizons. Not when they can argue about which line-up or formation would've beaten the Italians, I would imagine. I would suggest that it doesn't really matter when you don't have the ball, but the Chelsea example gives hope to all of them I suppose!

the reference to "historic arse" is at the end of the article. And also I noticed to reference to Messi at the first paragraph. That explains the low (but good quality I guess) debate.

So many people praise this column for talking about south american football, but I wonder how many people in England really care, and how many only care or only understand when there are several direct comparasions to english and european football. :(

@Nile: Tim said the truth about the weather in southern Brazil. My question was if, after living in Rio for 18 years, in $20 million penthouse in Leblon area, if Tim麓s vision of what constitutes "GENUINELY COLD WEATHER" was the view of an englishman or the view of a carioca! I heard cariocas use scarfs and gloves when the temperatures fall below 18潞C in Rio haha.

Hi Tim,

As a 19 year old who has never looked further than the Premier League for football your blogs really have been a revelation! They have made me wildy more interested in South american football the the premier league (unless Spurs are playing) and I just wanted to thank you for the blogs! Really need to get a tv subcription so I can watch some south american games, rather than relying on fifa 12! Have you any suggestions?

Thanks

Jack

If history and pedigree counts, then Boca is clear favourite. If teamwork is more important, Corinthians prevails.

Boca will try to get an advantage, however small, to transfer all the pressure to Corinthians in Brazil. The ghosts of previous Libertadores won't be easily vanished in this case. Even if the paulista side is clearly focused, prepared and dedicated to this tournament as never before in their history.