Fletcher had to go
Barbados - Throughout his seven and a half years in charge of the England team, Duncan Fletcher has always reviewed his position at the end of every summer, and again at the end of every winter.
Halfway through this World Cup, with his team clinging to the wreckage of a dismal campaign which came hard on the heels of their 5-0 defeat in the Ashes, he realised that there was only one option open to him - to jump before he was pushed.
Indeed, I understand that although David Morgan, the chairman of the ECB, is a staunch supporter of Fletcher's, there was no attempt made by him to talk the coach round.
The chairman knew from conversations with his fellow ECB directors at home that there was no turning back: one way or the other.
There's a certain symmetry to , which began when his first captain, Nasser Hussain, was booed by England's supporters following a defeat at the Kennington Oval. It ended under similar circumstances at the Kensington Oval where England fans showed their disgust when Michael Vaughan tried to explain his team's pathetic effort against South Africa.
In between, though, there were a number of highs. Of course, winning the was the triumph - although many will feel it was also the start of Fletcher's demise in that the team viewed it as the pinnacle of their achievement, rather than the platform for continued success.
Beating Pakistan in Karachi in the dark in 2000/01 was significant - the first time England had won a series there for 39 years, and England clinched six Test series on the trot between 2004 and 2005.
Throughout, there were questions raised throughout about his methods - particularly his insistence on resting players between Tests, and keeping preparation down to an absolute minimum on overseas tours.
While England were winning, those criticisms were easily brushed aside, but there was always the feeling that, one day, it might come back to haunt him.
His successor has a reasonable starting point in that England can only go in one direction. Just having a different face around will inject enthusiasm, and the players will be in the position of having to impress the new coach.
While success in Test cricket remains the most important objective,
The cricketers must want to play it, rather than giving the impression, at least, that it is all rather a chore - and the new man must instil discipline to a team that has gained an unfortunate reputation for being cosseted, overpaid, and with a penchant for enjoying the high life.
I agree with Aggers coments entirely, Vaughan has to go as One Day captain and player and be replaced with Collingwood. I also think the batting order should be changed with Nixon opening with a rejevenated Trescothick (if his mental issues have been fully resolved and he can be selected with confidence and won't give up days into a tour). My batting line up would be:
Complain about this post1. Trescothic
2. Nixon
3. Bell
4. Struass
5. KP
6. Collingwood
7. Freddie
8. Bopara
9, 10 & 11 to be bowling specialists.
took you englishmen long enough to realise he wasn't going anywhere.
Complain about this postlets hope his successor can bring yas in line and make the next ashes test something awesome.
I agree with Aggers coments entirely, Vaughan has to go as One Day captain and player and be replaced with Collingwood. I also think the batting order should be changed with Nixon opening with a rejevenated Trescothick (if his mental issues have been fully resolved and he can be selected with confidence and won't give up days into a tour). My batting line up would be:
Complain about this post1. Trescothic
2. Nixon
3. Bell
4. Struass
5. KP
6. Collingwood
7. Freddie
8. Bopara
9, 10 & 11 to be bowling specialists.
Glad to see the back of him.
Complain about this postPicking his chums instead of the players that had played their way into the side for the first test of the ashes was the beginning of the end.
And if he was such a great coach, able to spot and iron out weaknesses, why are the England batters in the worst form of their lives for the biggest tournament most of them will ever play in. Wasn't it his job to iron out the difficulties they clearly had. You don't see too many Australian batters out of form for the World Cup. They all peak for it.
And as for spotting talent, Nasser Hussain talks about him spotting Harmison when he was raw. Well I saw him bowl one ball and knew he had what it takes. He's as tall as Curtly Ambrose and five miles an hour faster. It doesn't take a genius to spot that he's going to be a handfull at the highest level.
Agreed - I was a bit sceptical of the Fletcher out camp and wanted to give him a bit more time, but it is clear Aggers was right.
Fletcher has been fantastic but it's time for a change. Too many awful decisions since the winning ashes tour:
Flintoff instead of Strauss as captain, letting Troy Coolley go, bringing Geraint Jones back in and letting Vaughan hang around whilst not fit - it was clear his time was up. There were many other frustrations.
Let's get a motivator in because we have the talent to really challenge now. If someone can get the best out of the current group of players- we'll be a match for anyone - including the overrated OAP Aussies who everyone coos about.
Complain about this postDunc's done the decent thing. It's a shame it's ended this way for him and I hope that when the dust settles he is remembered for the great strides he's made with the team in the test team are in desperate need of an overhaul.
Complain about this postIt is frustrating as a fan to see such obvious talent but some deeply flawed attitude/motivation/mental preparation issues which appear to result in such painful performances.
I hope we can all look forward to a new era, with the team at least playing to their potential.
So, who's your preferred choice of replacement? Moody?
Complain about this postMichael Vaughan must now do the decent thing and follow suit, with Collingwood a good bet for his replacement. Jones, Harmison and Broad must be drafted in to boost bowling attack, with Mahmood axed with immediate effect. The recruitment of speciliast one day players a good idea; consistancy of selection also crucial from 2009 onwards.
I would go for a seperate one day and test coach: it would help concentrate the mindset and focus of the players. Cook and Tres to open (ideally at test level also) with KP at 3, Collingwood, Shah, Flintoff and Prior to follow. Monty as spinner. And most importantly, get the bloody pride and passion back in the team that has been so desperately lacking of late. England have the talent to do far better, and with fresh ideas and impetus the will surely succeed!
Complain about this postThere is little all that needs to be said after Jonathan Agnew's comments. He knows the game and most of the participants far better than us.
Complain about this postThank goodness someone at last has had some common sense & got rid of this arrogant loser. Pity this didn't include the amateur ECB board, are they going to select another expensive loser we all wonder.
Complain about this postOne of the most worrying things about the Fletcher regime is the impression that he has had favourites. Clinging onto them despite evidence to the contrary (Giles of course, but also Geraint Jones, Bell and of course Vaughan) is what has done for him in the end. One cannot imagine an Australian team allowing an injured captain to remain an "eminence grise" for years while others warmed his seat for him. They would have said, get fit, get back in form, if you merit your place you'll be picked, then we might think again about you being captain. Or not. For now, we have to get on with it.
And if you have favourites, you also have non-favourites. Many players have been shabbily treated by Fletcher : Reid particularly, but also Strauss, and even Flintoff could be excused for feeling pretty cheesed off. And what about people like Shah, who certainly couldn't have done worse than Joyce, and might have brought some combativity to the batting ? He was always on the fringes, but never given a chance to show what he could do. And Loye, who did a job and was then discarded ? Even Monty has needed a pretty thick skin at times. One has the feeling that there were too many faces "that didn't fit". No team anywhere can ever achieve anything over the long term in that atmosphere. And man management is supposed to be part of the job, not an optional extra.
England needs a coach who calls it as it is. Australians generally have this quality ...
Complain about this postYes, I agree - but I can't see the players being that motivated to impress a coach with no international experience, and relatively little experience even at county level - Peter Moores should be a stop gap and no more. Bring on Tom Moody - great experience as a player and as a coach. He's based in England and would jump at the highest paid job in cricket, I'm sure!
Complain about this postHilarious excerpt from Fletcher timeline at Cricinfo.
September 2005 ... Fletcher was very quickly granted British Citizenship.
December 2005
The first Test series since the Ashes ended in a 2-0 defeat against Pakistan.
In other words, we did great under a foreign coach, lost it under a British one!
Complain about this postwould aggers do it?
Complain about this postIt IS time for Fletcher to go -7 years is enough for anyone without becoming stale - but the poor performance of the players at the World Cup has not been stressed enough. Nor indeed has the one day selection policy which has for too long concentrated on middle of the road bit players.
There is no World Cup for test match cricket and if there were, I expect England would do far better than in the one day game. As it is we can only judge Fletcher on successes such as the Ashes...I think most of us cricket followers, but not experts, forget very quickly test series successes and failures against nations other than Australia..including winter tour successes on the sub continent. We also easily forget his contribution to lifting the Test Match team from the doldrums.
So it's the high profile World Cup performance which gets all the attention - and it was bad, but gives everyone the chance to get on the Fletcher Out case...a bit like football really, but as someone said on TV yesterday, cricket entered the world of media attention with the post Ashes over celebrations and awards. Inevitably the failures will now get more attention too and Fletcher is the easier target as we are not quite yet ready to pillory the "star" players.
Complain about this postI don't think there is necesarily a problem with pride with in the team. It is more down to players playing the type of game that was suitable 10 years ago.
I agree about Mahmood being dropped at once. He has the ability to take wickets but if we are defending a low score we need a bowler who ties the bowlers down. Unfortuantly he can not do that and gives away so many needless runs it is an upper hand to the oppo. I don't think Harmison is right for the job either.
Complain about this postBest of luck to Fletcher; he did a good job but no one is perfect and his time had already passed.
This is about more than one day cricket and more than the coach, England have been lacklustre for 2 years.
Absolutely right Aggers that 2005 was the beginning of the end! That was a fantastic performance beyond the expectations of shrewd followers of the game...allied to some freakish good luck!
But how long do they need to go on with the party? Does Harmison think he is the finished article now? After one great tour to WI and occasional moments of quality since...but where is the fire and the fight every time he comes in to bowl? He cannot even to compare to any great modern bowler鈥e only has potential, but not the desire to fulfil it. Bu hey, why does he care? His mortgage is paid!
The simple truth is that most of the players are not hungry enough, not determined, not angry enough, to fight and compete, TO WIN!
That is a shame.
I see people running in and giving an effort with the ball, and people standing there trying to focus with the bat...but they are not doing it with enough conviction...with the belief that it is them or us! Do or die!
Why?
Because for them it makes no difference...they still get their celebrity lifestyle, win or lose, still get sponsorship, newspaper columns, TV appearances...al the rest...
Wake up people!
We, the paying public, will desert you if you do not show us what we want to see!
Complain about this postDuncan has been great for English cricket, i not sure about peter moores as a replacement i think we mite need somone from outside the current ECB set up. Tom Moody would be my choice but i think he is going to be hard to get.
Complain about this postI don't think different one-day and test-sides is the way forward. Fair enough to swap one or two, but it is the tactics that should change, not the personnel.
For too long ODIs haven't been treated very seriously by the England set-up, but they ARE equally important to Test matches (even if we Brits think real international cricket lasts 5 days), and as much time should be spent preparing for these as the longer form.
Also, cricketers, unlike footballers, can't just start playing and hit top form immediately. Form has to be built up through practice and playing: the new coach would do well to remember that. International cricket is not the place to gain this practice. From now on I think we'd all like to see players drafted into the team only when they have at least gained some form through county or 'A-team' cricket
Complain about this postI'm dismayed that once again the English media has played a huge part in the sacking of what can only be described as a genius. For many year s now we have concentrated on test match cricket. As a purest of the game I agree with this approach. Whilst success in the one day game is a bonus, we were never expected to do well in this world cup and our performance matched our ranking going into the event. With this in mind, why was Fletcher sacked (let's not pretend it was anything else) now? The guy should be back at the helm for the WI series to consolidate our test record after the Australian debacle. If anyone should go it ought to be some of the players who seem to believe their place in history is assured - Mr Flintoff time to fall back to earth with a bang!
Complain about this postI heard a lot of talk today ( Alec Stewart was one, but there were others ) about building for the next World Cup by picking players who will peak then. I was Stewart's biggest fan but, as in all sports, this attitude is total nonsense. The best way to build is to pick the best team to win the next match. What THAT builds is a winning ethos, where getting in the team can only be acheived by great performances, not because you're a 'good future prospect'. Select for every game as if its your last and it keeps the whole thing simple.
Complain about this postAggers, you are right, particularly the last sentence about discipline. I have been ranting since the first ashes test in many of the blogs on the TMS site on this subject, and I will continue to rant until it is seen to be resolved.
I am not talking about players enjoying 'the high life'....it's more to do with the details.....such as the kind of kit they wear for training (muscle man vests should be baned), whether wives and partners should be allowed on tour and if so, when...what external contracts the players are allowed to have during their England stint, what constitutes 'proper' behaviour (does KP doing a chicken dance in the middle to advertise his sponsors' gut-wrenching kiddy drink show he is concentrating on the game?), -the list goes into every aspect of the organisation. It is a question of the culture of the whole set-up, not just the team.
Culture in any organisation comes from above and has to be established by those in the highest places. It filters down through the layers and has to be promoted and reinfroced at every level of management. I find it odd that the coach is carrying the can whilst those above appear to wash their hands of the whole sorry disaster of the world cup and the ashes series and thus keep their cushy positions. They are actually an integral part of the whole tsunami of mediocrity that has washed over the England team.
At the moment the culture being signalled from above is 'every man for himself - keep your job and your cash'.
There has to be collective responsibility for the sorry showing on the pitch. Otherwise, the ECB 'wise men' will carry on taking credit when England beats someone and then sacrificing another coach or captain in order to disguise thier own failing when we get thumped by the Aussies or SA.
The report into the Ashes series will be published relatively soon. It was commissioned by the ECB. Do we honestly think that it will point the finger higher than the England coach? No - it will drone on about the organisation of the tour and too much cricket and poor preparation blah blah blah......it won't say 'sack the whole board, they tolerated and reinforced a culture that brought a winning team in 05 to decline and then into ridicule in 07'
I think there is going to be the most almighty scandle as the investigation into poor Bob Woolmer's tragic demise moves on. I only hope the ECB does not choose to hide behind that smokescreen and for once offer solutions and not platitudes.
Complain about this postFletcher had to go and Vaughan should quit as One Day captain and be replaced by Freddie. However, he does remain our best Test Captain. When he retires, Strauss should take over that job. I think the media underestimated how well Strauss performed whilst captain: his batting was superb, he was innovative in the field and we won!! The team looked united and happy as well.
The formats of both games are completely different to each other and require different mindsets. I loved seeing Loye smashing the Aussies over here and 2 out of our 3 top batsmen need to play a similar style. KP HAS TO BAT AT 3. His talent is seriously world class but needs to come in at 1-50 odd off 10-12 overs, rather than the pathetic 1-9 off 10 or whatever it was the other day.
Bopara has stood out and Strauss needs to stay on. He had a rotten time in Aus for sure - but how many completely crap decisions did he get?? If you can't remember it averaged out to be higher than 1 per test. You can't score runs if the opposition target you with excessive appealing and fox the weak-minded umpires into thinking you're out.
It will great to have Tres and S Jones back when fully fit as they provide fire to the team when on song. Please rest Mahmood until he can learn to bowl line and length and Anderson until he can bowl with spice and venom. I do like the look of Broad and Plunkett. With Hoggie, Monty, Freddie and Harmy going strong, our bowling stocks look plenty healthy - esp for the Tests.
Cook is a class Test player and Bell has a lot of potential. Colly gets in to both sides for his fielding and composure but there's no way in the world he should bat so high up, esp when Bopara is languishing so low.
Why don't we include young fringe players in the One Day side? Not a whole heap at a time but blood players every tournament between now and the next World Cup?
Whilst the slaughter the other night was humiliating and a waste of excellent sleeping time, I hope we use it to completely overhaul English cricket. Fletcher has been a good coach over the years and we should thank him for helping us to second in the test rankings. But this is the dawning of a new age and management owe it to all the long-suffering English supporters to make the most of it.
Complain about this postMV needs to consider his future in the one day game, his figures speak for themselves.Very poor, its just not his game and he needs to excepts this or move right down the order.
Complain about this postAs for the ashes tour just gone the preperation was very poor that week back in England cost us. yeah Fletch had his favourites which is wrong but so did Fred ..so not all the blame lies with Fletch for that ..i'll never understand why Monty never played those 1st two games ..... ...
Anyway onwards and upwards and thank you Fletch for making us number 2 in the world at test cricket . Good luck.
Fletcher is not totally to blame and what we need is a clean sweep and flesh start, Come on Mr Graveney, you backed Duncan all the way so please please have the guts to resign as he has done.
We need a NO NONSENSE team of Botham, Agnew, Hussain & Willis to head selection before we can move on in a positive manner.
Complain about this postRe post #3 - Dan - "If someone can get the best out of the current group of players- we'll be a match for anyone - including the overrated OAP Aussies who everyone coos about"
Precisely the type of thinking that lost you the Ashes 5-0. Come back when England have gone unbeaten for 20-something world cup games.
The mistakes english cricket has made since September 2005 are too numerous to list. The handling of the captaincy issue is, I believe, the key. Ruining one of the most dangerous players in the world (Flintoff) by giving him a job he was obviously completely unsuitable for was poor and guaranteed to badly affect his performance. Bringing back Vaughan too early from injury and not dropping him was desperate.
I'm not sure whether these decisions were Fletcher's or the selection panel's. David Graveney seems to be avoiding the flack fairly adeptly here.
Having said all that, Fletcher's time was up. The tactics in the WC were neanderthal.
Complain about this postFletcher's biggest set back was dropping Read over Jones.
Complain about this postI mean seriously what is Jones compared to Read.
Christopher Mark Wells Read is the best. Fletch I am sorry but do read what I have said you failed on not choosing Read.
Anyone else think it is somewhat conspicuous that England's fortunes went totally down the drain at almost the exact time that Troy Cooley departed as the bowling coach? Who then, funnily enough, went to Australia who have since had an incredibly successful resurgence. Kevin Shine needs to go more than Fletcher did, and Fletcher really needed to go.
Complain about this postFletcher's resignation only solves a small part of the problem with England in ODIs. For years they have struggled to make a lot of runs, even their victories have been tense affairs often down to the last over or so. This is great to watch, but the batting failures tend to be forgotten in the excitement! ODIs are won by scoring quickly, not necessarily by lofting the ball for six, but by skilled placement of boundaries, preferably along the ground. England seem to lack the technique to do this, and I think it is a problem with the way cricket is played in England. There are too many matches between teams which are hopelessly mismatched, giving easy victories for sides with a bit of talent. We need the equivalent of a cricket Premiership, a league that is so good it is hard to break in to.
Complain about this postI think Duncan Fletcher has been a scape goat like all managers in English sport. How quickly things can change... A winning formula that turns sour. The problem is that the team were built up too much after the ashes (by Agnew especially) to a point they couldn't repeat the standard. Even Fletcher said after the ashes 'it was probably too early' but no-one listened we were suddenly the best team in the world! when we weren't, we were just a good team. Players buy in to it and so do the public and it ruined us once again! No-one in this country can keep their feet on the ground as we're starved of the success of the likes of Aus. Next time we getting a winning team lets continue and not implode them.... please!! We expected a backlash which was Pakistan but we did build after that and the ashes was no surprise, with a depleted team. Why can't anyone see that? As for one day cricket it was no surprise either. but i'm sure with Fletcher at the helm we would have beat W.I and India in the summer. Usual panic merchants. I am not too bothered about one day cricket as we've not been much cop for eternity but just as these defeats come after the ashes everyone kicks off, why not before? Australia have got Fletcher the sack and we've fallen for it. English sport is weak full stop and i'm losing patience.
Complain about this postNot a day too soon in my view.
But I'd suggest it should be just the tip of the iceberg. There needs to be wholesale change in ECB. Graveney should go as well.
Until we get serious about this we will continue to be the laughing stock of world cricket.
Complain about this postThe ironic twist of fate. On Saturday, two very ordinary teams play each other, possibly to select the team (without question the loser)for the annual triangular to be played with India and Pakistan. This will be played every year in Somalia and matchfixing will be permitted to Dubai based Dons.
The irony, however, is two cricketing personalities will say goodbye to cricket. One, a genuine superstar, the like of whom may not be seen for years, and the other, a gross mediocrity, a genuine liability to any side.
Complain about this postFirst England needs the players....
Then the coach...
Right now, they have neither
Complain about this postCertainly this was the right move. Duncan was unable to move the team forward after the Ashes, although he was unfortunate with injuries.
Complain about this postIt's time for some new ideas, prehaps KP or Freddie opening in one-dayers, Collingwood as captain.
There is still plenty to be optimistic about. As Anil Kumble said "test cricket is real cricket" and we still have the second best test side in the world. We also have plenty of exciting young players who will be breaking through to international level over the next couple of years like Steven Davies, Adil Rashid, Stuart Broad, Tim Bresnan, Tom Smith.
It's less than a month until the first test against the West Indies. Let's get behind the boys and the new coach.
I found this quote from Shane Warne which i feel put Agnew's comments into perspective, "When you鈥檙e losing cricket matches, you can blame the coach, you can blame anybody, but ultimately the responsibility for results comes down to the players"
But above all this, how would Agnew improve things? Put your money where your mouth is Johnathon and lets try and put some of your knowledge of the game to some use.
It is very easy to criticise, particularly after the winter series but Fletcher is a massive loss to the English game and will not be replaced easily. Or perhaps Johnathon fancies a crack at the job???
Complain about this postGood riddence to Duncan Fletcher, let's hope that the next 2 to go are Vaughn and Graveney. The only way to get out of the mess that the England Cricket team are currently in is to start with the basics at the lower levels and to ban overseas professionals from the County game for the next 5 years. This will encourage younger players to develope and have the objective in front of them from the outset to improve sufficiently to get into the County first 11. The counties seem to all take the easy option to sign up a silver tail superstar for a quick fix, instead of investing in and ensuring the real future of English Cricket.
Complain about this postAustralia do not have many overseas players in State Cricket, enough said!
I propose our very own aggers as the next England coach. He is initimately involved with the game, always knows what is wrong with the team, is not afraid to criticise them and has played international cricket. Whilst someone like Botham may struggle to coach because he would find it difficult to understand why everyone else does not have the talent he has, Aggers would be able to look up to all players from under 13 level upwards.
He would also not spend time harping back on past successes. It is suggested that some players don't value the wickets they take or the runs they scored enough. For example, Botham seems not to be able to remember all his wickets. Agnew could never forget his wicket.
Complain about this postTo Mike Finn (17)
People look at the Australian team and say 'well the Australians play virtually the same one day and test teams, and look how many games they keep winning'. Australia seems to have the secret (presumably something to do with their culture, education system, and availability of sport facilities for youngsters) for producing great sportsmen right across all sports (even their football team is starting to achieve minor successes in the football world cup). Something in the Australian national character allows them to do it, and even then they have some players who are 'specialists' ending up playing most of their matches in one form of the game or the other. (EG Michael Bevan.) The two types of cricket- one day cricket and test match cricket- have entirely different tempos. One day cricket is a scramble to score as many runs as possible in 50 overs (or less in rain reduced matches); test-match cricket is usually about squeezing as many runs out of your team as the pitch and conditions allow, since time is less of a factor; captains who 'declare' their innings in a test do so at the risk of humiliation- EG Flintoff when he underestimated the Australians so disasterously at Adelaide on the last ashes tour. Declarations are seldom an issue in one day matches, although TMS' 'bearders' would no doubt be able to produce an example of when a one day match has included a declaration if such an event has ever occured.
The recent performance of the England squad in the world cup has made it quite clear that the EWCB needs to seriously consider having one side for test matches and an entirely different side for one-dayers, in my opinion. Nixon, the wicket-keeper, is a one-day specialist, as far as I can understand, and alongside Pietersen- who is so outrageously talented a batsman as to be able to cope with two different forms of the game- has been one of the few reliable run-scorers. Flintoff, although his bowling has looked decent, has looked completely out of his depth in the one day form of the game as far as his batting goes ever since he came back from his last surgery. (Although his scores in the tests against the Aussies didn't look too good, either.) Vaughan, Strauss, and Bell, all good test players when injuries do not intervene, have floundered around failing to seriously score against 'the big teams'*, Joyce is still learning, Collingwood seems to have been tired out by too much cricket (thus ought to stick to EITHER tests OR one-dayers in my opinion) and with the exception of Anderson (I'm not sure when he did anything noticeable last in a test) the bowlers have generally lacked any kind of experience, and especially when it comes to trying to keep the run-rate down, in situations where wickets have been in short supply.
*Bell's innings of 77 against the Australians in this WC seems to have been a one-off, with his other highest being 47 against the Sri Lankans, and on most of the other occasions failing to make it past 20.
By comparison, the 'top' one day teams such as New Zealand and Australia have clambered into the England bowling attack and helped themselves on these Carribean pitches, and South Africa (statistically the best one day team in the world, earlier this year) didn't seem to have too many problems either. If specialist one-day bowlers had been used instead of promising trainee test-bowlers such as Mahmood, England might have fared better. Darren Gough made himself avilable I seem to recall, who has a name for being able to bowler yorkers, at 'the death' of a one-day innings, and yet for some reason he got completely left out. (Age discrimination, or possibly it was decided that Yorkshire's need was greater than England's in a fit of extreme genersity by the EWCB?) Chris Broad, who I seem to recall bowling reasonably effectively in the 20/20 fines last season, has sat on the side-lines, despite being flown out to replace Lewis who was needed elsewhere when his wife was taken ill.
Bopara (who seems to have been wrongly placed in the batting order, behind Flintoff) and who was introduced apparently as a result of fall-out from the 'pedalo' incident seems to be a good one-day player, but may possibly be another batting prodigy in the mould of Pietersen, and able to cope with both forms of the game. Panesar has generally seemed indifferent in the conditions- it took him several matches to get his first wicket in the competition- but this may be down to inexperience in the one-day format as opposed to being more suited to test-match situations.
I should also note that Matthew Hoggard, so vital to England's test attack, has great difficulty with the one day form of he game, where the line and length that make him so useful in tests make him too predictable and vulnerable to 'big hitters' if there is too little swing in a one day match. Harmison has recently refused o have anything more to do with one-day cricket, but that may be as much to do with difficulties with his form, generally, as any preference for tests over the one-day format.
In short, I think that the way that the WC matches have gone have made clear that whilst many of the England players used may be very good test players when properly led (or future test hopefuls) that, to be brutally blunt, they suck when it comes to one day cricket. (Apologies for using the word 'suck' in this context, but it was the most effective desritpion that I could fiond for the impression with which they have left me.) England need separate (or mostly separate) one day and test teams, and I can only hope that Fletcher going and the Schofield Report mean that this happens now, rather than in eight or twelve years time after future world cup failings and years of being bottom of the one-day rankings amongst the 'test' nations. (For Bangladesh are improving very rapidly, as their victories over India and South Africa in this competition have demonstrated.)
Complain about this postFletcher has been a good coach for England overall. His time has been over for some time. He should have retired after winning the Ashes in 2005 or drawing in India the following year. England have been repeatedly humiliated ever since that tour of India. I hope England can produce a team in the future that can prove that Cricket originated from England. Fletcher will always be remembered for winning the Ashes in 2005.
It is time for England to move on. Ashes were snatched from England in the same fashion that a tiger kills his prey. Since then, England made constant mistakes like including Vaughan in the team and keeping out Harmison and Hoggard. Cook, Harmison and Hoggard were playing the county season while England were being humiliated by South Africa in the World Cup, i just cannot comprehend why this was allowed to happen?
Complain about this postTim Easton. - What r u on about???? Nixon opening, i know he's not bad but hell he isn't and unfortunatley never will be a Gilcrist!!! KP or Freddie needs to be higher up the order and Borara needs some experiance up there as well.We desperatley need a quick aggresive batter at the top of the order, i.e. freddie or kp (gotta be worth a shot), assuming Tresco isn't fit.
Complain about this postWell it had to happen! Thanks for all your hard work and the memories Fletch', but the time has come to move on. We need someone to push us forward. Moodey would be my choice, a young coach with fresh idea's.
Complain about this postVaugnie should stay as test captain, and could be one day captain but ONLY if he bats further down the order.
Well, Fletcher being the coach or not, one thing not even the best coach in the world can bring to the English side is the mentality to succeed. I think England has enough potential to be a good side, but having the potential is only half the battle won. Unfortunately for England, more often than not, they seem to have all the raw materials for success and none of the desire. To any cursory observor with little knowledge or patience, clearly the English team will come off looking like a bunch of flakes and chokers. Harsh words, but there's some truth in them - the English media is also to balme. They give the team godly status too soon, too easily, if let's say England wins a few matches against Australia, and then equally swiftly, start critising them like there's no tomorrow. What the English team needs is consistency and respect for the game as well as those who support them.
Complain about this postEnglands Cricketers Must Get More Practice Per Season & Even Extend The Season.To Do This Cricket & Cricket Grounds Need To Be Established in Sunny Dry Parts Of Europe.Until Cricketers Get Regular Exposure To Hard Fast Wickets Things Wont Come Rite.
Complain about this postTime to get off the Graveny Train David.
Graveney has to go.
Fletcher has made a good contribution with what he has been given.
The inconsistency of selection, the incoherence of selection policy and the total lack of responsibility shown by David Graveney makes his tenure untenable.
It is all very well enjoying the perks, the kudos and the honour but the roll is not about the Gravy Train its about taking responsibility.
Time to go.
Complain about this postOne down (Fletcher), two to go( Graveney, Vaughan). Not long to wait now, chaps.
Here's another suggestion. Apply Davis Cup structures to international one day cricket so that there is an elite group and a minnows group, with annual promotion and relegation.
Perhaps it would concentrate the minds of the old buffers currently running English cricket, not to mention some of the English players if they realised they in the short term they would be playing in the lesser group alongside countries like Kenya, Ireland, Bangladesh and the Netherlands any one of who would give them a good run for their money.
If the slide from grace goes on it will not be long before England end up in the Asia/Africa Group and we hear an England captain 'taking plenty of positives' from a narrow defeat at the hands of the Falkland Islands.
Complain about this postCome on - how about a campaign for Shane Warne or Steve Waugh for Coach? They know how to WIN - no matter how hard the opposition or unlikely the result - something precious few English crickets really have much experience at. We only won the ashes because we attacked the Aussies and got under their skin at EVERY opportunity - and let's be fair, we only JUST won...(take off those rose tinted glasses - 5-0 recently and only one English win in 20 years...)
Warne / Waugh has the know how to WIN completely, and keep winning every time. When we take a single loss as seriously as the Australians, only then will we start competing...
Complain about this postNasser Hussain wrote in the daily mail that our bowlers need to play in more one day matches to learn how to play properlyin them. I would have thought that the principles of bowling line, length, speed and swing or spin remain the same for all types of cricket. With all the strategists, tacticians and bowling coaches they should know how to bowl at any given time. If anyone knows different I would be grateful.
Complain about this postEverytime i see or hear you Aggers you're sticking the knife in Fletcher.
I think you've made your point mate.
And also do you sports journalists EVER look at the fact that YOU might be the problem. Why have they struggled with form and confidence so much. MEDIA PRESSURE?
Take football - three english clubs in the semi's of the champions league with many england internationals playing brilliantly for their club and yet struggling to find any confidence in the international arena.
This goes for all the media - TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES FOR ONCE.
Complain about this postThanks Mr Fletcher for what you have done to English Cricket in the years you have been there, we are rightly second best in the worlds at the longer game and that is thanks to you..........good luck to you in what ever you take on next.
Time to give it to Peter Moores permantly, might see a Sussex player actually play for his country then...................oh they are the champions afterall so must have some talent..........Down the M23 onto the A23 and follow the signs for the County Ground....you cant miss it. (that was for the selectors)
Complain about this postFletch as good a coach and servant of English cricket as he undoubtedley was, had sadly passed his sell by date. Taking a positive view, there is a lot to thank him for - the halcyon days of seven-in-a-row and the 2005 Ashes (even from an Ozzie point-of-view). I believe the one outstanding quality an English coach must have in any sporting discipline is the ability to be a mega motivator. The English psyche generally is non- aggressive, good lads but no real metal or as I think you Poms call it 'bottle'.
Complain about this postThe success of Antipodean teams is that they are so competitive, so motivated, so talented - English teams are without doubt talented - they just need the other bits 'n bobs. Tom Moody would sort you!
It's easy to say he should go after such an awful World Cup campaign but we are perennially awful at one day cricket, test wise we're not that far off, yes the Aussie's whitewashed us but there isn't a team in the world that would've got near them the way they were playing, certainly not without the pick of their bowlers (Jones), and it was only a couple of bad decisions here and there that stopped it being closer (THAT declaration being the big one).
Flintoff has come off the back of almost relentless criticism of his captaincy and lifestyle is it any surprise he underperformed? Strauss appears to have taken his ball home at not being given the captaincy and split the camp, Harmison decided that he couldn't face it, Pietersen continues to bat for Pietersen first and England second, England were set up to fail from the off.
It isn't all Fletcher's fault, though having said that the figurehead of the failure, Michael Vaughan is Fletcher's fault and we can only hope that the new man has the gumption (since apparently Vaughan himself lacks it) to tell Vaughan that his services are no longer required in the one day game.
Complain about this postI'm sorry to see him go but he hasn't actually done much for English cricket in his tenure.
The high point would obviously be the Ashes win in England - but they really should have lost that as well. Good luck to them.
Such a surly person (I'd have used another word actually). Hopefully England can find (have) someone to both recognise the best XI (which may not involve KP) and then keep them under control!
Forget the Tom Moody option by the way - he's back home and involved with WA I understand.
Complain about this postHow much of yesterday's ECB pronouncements are we supposed to believe? If he genuinely resigned before he was pushed, he should not have been given any payment. Presumably rather than do that he negotiated a settlement, i.e. a pay-off, which is a sacking in everything but name. Will we ever get the full truth about this? Viewers - at the grounds and of satellite TV - pay for English cricket: don't we have the right to know where the money is going and how much?
And why wasn't Fletcher's contract dependent on results with the ECB having the right to dismiss him without notice if the results fell below a specified level - 5-0 to Australia for example.
Fletcher's complete control was a kind of megalomania, illustrated by his completely uninformative and insightless press conferences and the quite unbelievably ridiculous pronouncements by his players, who had been so obviously briefed on what they could say by the ECB - such a contrast to intervews with the Australian players where you actually learn something.
Quite the most ludicrous thing of the Fletcher era was that, following each disastrous performance, all he and his entourage could talk about was "taking the positives", whereas the obvious, glaring need was to deal with the "negatives".
The ODI results speak for themselves and no amount of spin can cast a positive light on them, but what really needs to be done is an objective analysis of the Test results under Fletcher.
Time and time again, very narrow, often lucky, wins and escapes papered over cracks in the English Test set-up. The paper-thin, weather-dominated, and lucky Ashes win two summers ago was sandwiched by two complete thrashings in Australia.
Complain about this postI think we all owe Duncan Fletcher a debt of gratitude for what he did with the England Team. It is not only him that needs to move on though. the selectors do need a rejig as I am probably not alone in thinking that the three best fast bowlers in the country don't all come from Lancashire.
As this World Cup for England comes to an end i think some players should get a thank you for at least making us shift closer to the tv and that goes to Paul Nixon and KP. Nixon especially as he has at least shown some idea of the concept of one day cricket. Ravi Bopara is the future though he migfht have wished to have stayed at home with his club colleague Cook, who has just hit his 2nd century of the season, and escape the fallout.
Last point, if you want to win the World Cup it is a good idea to look at what others do and maybe copy. Like scoring runs fro the start and not playing yourself in.
Good Luck to the next man and put a fiver on the plucky little Sri Lankans to take the title.
Complain about this postGraveney and Millar should pay the price. I have always thought that they have been much to blame for Englands revolving door policy in one day selection. I understand that Fletcher (as a selector) was always a proponent of loyalty to the squad and that Graveney and Millar were the ones parachuting county players in for the odd game. The squad has changed significantly for every one day series I can remember!
Does anyone have any thoughts on who should be next chariman of the selectors?
I also believe that the coach should not be a selector so I would be looking for three selectors, one of which (chariman obviously) has casting vote.
Complain about this postan england one day team for this summer
bell
dalrymple
pieterson
strauss (c)
collingwood
bopara
shah
flintoff
prior
broad
panesar
an england test match team for england pitches
cook (with joyce in the wings)
bell
pieterson
strauss (c)
collingwood
dalrymple
prior
flintoff
broad
panesar
anderson
Complain about this posthope harmison doesn't play for england again. flintoff should never (ever) bat higher than 8 again. nixon, despite his world cup heroics, shouldn't play again. need a young keeper to energise the team a bit and to provide a youthful fulcrum for the team. tres is good but is it worth it? again? i like Bell opening. feels right. please play Broad and give us something to get excited about! oh, and please make strauss captain!
Fletcher did have to go, he probably did michael vaughan a favour by quitting when he did so the press attention is not focused on him, but sorry michael , you should do the right thing and follow duncan's lead, your 32 years old and have yet to score a ODI ton at god knows how many attempts, your no spring chicken anymore, hand the reigns over to collingwood and concetrate on being a good test batsmen and captain as thats what you are.
Complain about this postone would hope Chris Read would get a proper chance now with Fletcher gone. Even if he turns out to be rubbish, it would seem fair to give him a decent chance and unfair that Fletcher could have single-handedly ruined his international career. Although is Moores more pro-Sussex players given his background maybe?
Complain about this postGood riddance to a lousy manager; could his departure be followed by Morgan's, Graveney's and Vaughan's, please.
If Fletcher had resigned on 10 April, does this explain the very apparent lack of intention in the South Africa debacle, which was one of the most excruciating sporting performances I have ever had the misfortune to witness? None of the present set-up deserve their air-fare home, never mind their wages. None of the players should ever represent their country again.
Complain about this postOne down, two to go? Surely it should be three - people are forgetting about the man at the top - David Morgan, the Chairman of ECB (who's also the "man of principle" who insisted on England playing in Zimbabwe, remember?)
Complain about this postDuncan had to go and his resignation is timely. However, I hope that others concerned in the recent decline in english cricket don't think they can rest easy. Others, including the ECB, Graveney and Vaughan, along with the players and backroom staff have responsibility too. In my opinion Morgan, Graveney and Vaughan should go as well. This is the end of an era and England needs a fresh start. This would put the whole episode into its true perspective.
Complain about this postI have one question for Aggers with regard to the prioritising of the Tests over ODIs by Duncan Fletcher. Why is it that the main TMS team (Aggers, CMJ, Blowers etc) commentate on the Tests but never the ODIs overseas? (apart from World Cup matches) Does that not suggest that they see also the Tests as the priority? I have also noticed that the main newspaper cricket correspondents have also gone home by the time the ODIs start at the end of overseas tours. Surely we all need to realise that ODIs should have as much importance as the Tests.
Complain about this postThe first thing the incoming coach needs to sort out is the ridiculous mindset that only Test matches matter. Anyone who can't see that skills learnt in one form of the game are transferrable to others is, frankly, an idiot - and there are still people spouting this argument on this blog.
Complain about this postHow much has Test-match fielding improved over the last 20 years, when ODIs have become more prevalent? How much have Test-match scoring rates increased in the same time? How much more skilled have bowlers become at sending down yorkers? All of these skills have come from one-day cricket. And there seems to be an increase in one-day scoring rates since 20/20 has come along, so skills are transferring from that game too.
I'm a traditionallist and believe that Test cricket is the epitomy of the sport. But even so, anyone who ignores other forms of cricket because they are irrelevant to Tests will never fulfill their potential in any form.
Agree, as usual Aggers. Also, perhaps as part of the new approach the ECB will stop agreeing to ridiculous schedules on overseas tours.
I know little about Peter Moores, he obviously doesn't have quite the profile of a recently retired international player or current international coach but he seems highly-rated by those whose opinions I respect like Gus Fraser.
Whoever gets the job will have their work cut out. Hopefully we will now see bowlers getting some overs on the clock and batsmen getting time in the middle between tests.
Complain about this postHe had to go - international cricket cannot be run by a mindset that picks players who have not played for a year, and who obviously had favourites. He also seemed to believe that international cricketers are overworked - a belief comprehensively debunked by Colin Croft on air.
Complain about this postGood luck Duncan. Remember it is just a game but bringing the Ashes back home in such a great series of cricket will be a memory I will treasure for the rest of my life. Thanks for making us to expect England to start winning cricket matches again!
Complain about this postI think we have moved on a lot under his coaching, but its time for a new broom. Its going to be a poisoned chalice: high expectation and not a lot to work with ...
Complain about this postI find it laughable that people can say Harmison, Trescothick and Flintoff aren't worth their places in the side, and then go and pick Jamie Dalrymple. Dalrymple is at best an innocuous offie at international level, and his batting is not nearly solid or destructive enough to make him worth the risk. You'd be better off with Ian Blackwell - at least you might see some fireworks!
Fletcher's tenure WAS a success. There is a case for saying he stayed on too long, but that's not his fault. At one stage, we were the second best test team in the world. One day cricket has always been a weakness, but there's something fundamentally wrong with the system (the only reason we don't play 50 over cricket is because people think the games start too early or finish too late!)
And don't write Vaughan off as a Test batsman and captain. He was once ranked number one in the world, and justifiably so. With time at the crease, he can make a big difference, especially without Tresco in the side at the moment.
Complain about this postIt's a shame that Fletcher has gone out on a low note. Most reasonable people will probably say that he's done a good job, but stayed too long.
It's a shame that some people still want to condemm the man even after he's done the decent thing.
Complain about this postEveryone should never forget what Fletcher and the team had achieved as a test side, especially during 2004-2005 and the back to back wins in Pakistain and Sri Lanka. I remember the 1990s and we have move on two-fold since then.
I feel the writing was on the wall in the summer of last year and got worse until now. One fault of Mr Fletcher is that after the ashes win, the team got carried away with it all and never moved up to the next level. Like Australia - being at the top for years.
The ODI team is laughable at present but thankyou Mr Fletcher for the Test team and at least 1 Ashes win. The urn was ours for 18 months.
Complain about this postHe鈥檚 gone! now we need to clear out the rest, Graveney, batting and bowling coaches, most of the coach load of hangers on. Then drop the whole team from their contracts and make them reapply. But only Pieterson, Bopara, Collingwood, Panasar can walk back in. the rest need to spend this season playing county cricket. There are plenty of cricketers to replace them, i.e. Ramprakash, Cook, Broad, Benning, Mascarenas, Foster, Kirtley, perhaps Strauss, Key , Plunkett and Rashid (yes 2 spinners in the team) and I鈥檝e no doubt you could think of some as well. People talk about Tresco but I went off him when he and Butcher walked off at Headingly when offered the light against S.A. when their bowlers were shot and they were scoring at 5 an over only to get first thing next day. Harmlesson has an attitude problem will it ever change? perhaps if he didn鈥檛 earn the big money anymore he would get a kick up the back side from his wife and also might miss the international life style he seems to hate so much. Bell isn鈥檛 a world class no3 and can鈥檛 judge a run. As to what Aggers thinks well he believed it right to drop Read and Panasar and never said anything about breaking up Strauss鈥檚 winning team of last year, he鈥檚 a nice guy and a good commentator but that鈥檚 it. Youth has got to be the way to go they can then adapt their game to the higher level, the older cricketers have bad habits and seem to have lost their enthusiasm as well (apart from Nixon, but too old). New contracts must be performance related, including the management. The coach I鈥檓 afraid needs to be Australian as they want to win not just play with all their mates.
Complain about this postSome of the comments here are OTT. Duncan Fletcher has probably got alot to offer some of the other Test playing nations [though I doubt if he'd tolerate some of the nonsense the WICB dish out to the players]. He was the best England coach in a generation and it's horrible to see the derision foisted upon him
Complain about this postI think Duncan Fletcher has done a wonderful job with English cricket but agree it is probably time for new ideas. England under Fletcher have given me memorable moments more often than absolute despair which is all I seem to recall of the 90s. I remember being at one of his first tests against New Zealand at Lords and thinking that was really rock bottom but since then who can forget Karachi, Johannesburg, Jamaica and The Ashes 2005.
Complain about this postI'm not a great fan of One Day cricket anyway but I do feel the new coach needs to seriously reconsider England's approach to the game. What happened to playing your best team in whatever form of cricket you play. This seems to work for Australia and South Africa, currently 1 and 2 in the world. Saying that Vaughan doesn't seem to be up to the job but would be in the test team everytime.
mailing from St Lucia and having been at the South African game, I have had difficutly explaining to my West Indian chums just how England performed so badly.
The England supporters bring a lot of money to the places they visit and St Lucia regards the current semi final as a bit of a let down.
Whichever way you look at it, England's hapless display on Tuesday needed to be explained and the captain and the players response was to hide behind cliches and the dressing room walls.
Everyone agrees that England benefit from the greatest supporters in the cricketing game, everyone that is but the England team and officials.
Which is why so few supporters lament the passing of the current era.
Complain about this postI disagree with Agger's article but I disagree with the tone.
Nobody is perfect of course but Duncan Fletcher has been a a great success for English cricket, particularly for us who have had the misfortune of supporting England prior to his reign.
He has made mistakes but has also made some crucial decisions which have benefited English cricket which Aggers is scating over in his (in my opinion) overly critical article.
He deserves his citizenship and OBE not only for beating the Aussies but for all the other efforts he has made to take English cricket from the doldrums of where it was to the point where we are 2nd in the world of test playing nations for test cricket.
Here is a thought as well. Are we not good at 1 day cricket because we have crap players? Not always the system you know that causes bad results.
Complain about this postI do not agree that Fletch had to go. Okay everybody feels better that somebody had to suffer especially a non-Englishman.
Complain about this postBut what about our non-performing stars who keep telling us what they are "going to do" but never deliver. For me out would go the likes of Flintoff, Vaughan, Collingwood, Mahmood, Anderson etc etc.
Some started to believe they were untouchable after 2005 - now let them know that they are not.
What about Harmison and Trescothick - Have they not let Fletch down in a big way then the unfortunate Jones who is for me our leading bowler. How we have missed him.
Our problem at one day cricket is our constant belief in so-called "one day specialists" who we really should refer to as "bits and pieces" cricketers. The list of this type who have been tried and failed is almost endless.
Send the stars of 2005 back to the counties and tell them "change your attitude" bring in the best we can find and not "bits and pieces" players.
Basics - bowlers without big heads or egos who can bowl.
Batters who have some class and the right attitude. If they are young or older it should not matter.
As for a replacement for Fletch it must be a hardened experienced guy who the players will respect and who is not afraid of big names. That rules out all Englishmen so Tom Moody for me.
Let's please not forget what Fletcher and England achieved in 2005 against the Aussies and as a test side in general England have been and still are a force to be reckoned with.
As a one day outfit, they have achieved fifth place in the world which is roughly where they are realistically. The loss of Trescothick was a real blow as he is one of the best one day openers in the world and would have made a huge difference. England at present don't have the bowling capabilities to play aginst the best. Mahmood and Anderson are far too inconsistant and the only threat England has is that of Monty.
Complain about this postBring on the Windies in the tests and I'm sure England will have something to smile about again!
Lets do something different. We will probably pick a coach that is suitable and fits in with the hieracrchy - just like the football!
I say we go for Shane Warne as coach. he has recently finished playing and hence knows the modern game inside out. He will also want to make a statement to the ACB, as he still has an issue about not being selsected as captian. What better way to do so, by coaching England to become No.1 again.
Complain about this postYes, I think it is time for a new coach, but let's not forget what Fletcher has achieved. Also, surely a large proportion of the blame for these dismal performances must lie with the players! How can professional cricketers playing in a world cup manage to play so badly and with such a lack of drive and determination? They need to take a leaf out of Irelands book!!
Complain about this postFletcher's time had come. Let's remember what England achieved with him, because that isn't something that deserves forgetting. Let's look at where we are now and learn from the mistakes of the past.
The all powerful coach dictating whether a player plays or rests isn't all that good a thing. Surely a player and his club know whether the player benefits by resting or playing more. Playing more county games gives more chances to work on improving your game and lets the counties know the ECB isn't treating them as a conveyor belt. If someone like Plunkett needs to work on things then the place to do that is in the county game, not in a test match.
Man management has been awful at times. The handling of Chris Read speaks volumes for that. I don't know how much truth there has been in some of what Darren Gough has said about David Graveney, but that's another indication that things are not as they might be. They're better than in the 70s and 80s, but perhaps not that much.
Picking favourites has got to stop. Saj Mahmood isn't up to it. He's had his chance, now let Stuart Broad have his. Looking back at the Sri Lanka tour of England, a mistake was made picking Mahmood over Jon Lewis, who had just taken 10-for against them, and they struggled at Worcester. That selection could have cost us the series. See what the rejuventated Sri Lankans did to us in the one day series.
Please can we have a coach who doesn't talk in soundbites? A coach who can front up to the media and say "Today we were village!" would be a refreshing change to the tedious and predictable diet of press conferences we are force fed.
The Ashes win in 2005 was viewed with rose tinted spectacles the moment umpires Koertzen and Bowden lifted the bails at The Oval. Yes, England had won (and I was crying with joy) but it had been so much closer than anyone would dare say in public. That was why it was such a great series. So close and so tense. But this was forgotten. The intensity and preparation England needed wasn't there on the return tour. The Aussies, however, were massively pumped up for what they saw as a revenge mission. And what a hammering!
Maybe there needs to be more change at the top of the ECB and the selectors. Bob Willis? To quote J P McEnroe "You cannot be serious!" Angus Fraser and Nasser Hussain would be a good bet. Or if you want someone hard as nails, how about Peter Willey? As a recent international umpire he's well placed to advise on things like international intensity.
The days of being a selector for years and years and years are surely past.
For coach I would love to see Shane Warne get the job. He would ruffle a few feathers for sure! But he's playing at Hampshire so enjoy him while you can! Peter Moores is doing a great job with the younger players, I'd like to see him carry on that good work, just as he did at Sussex. Their success isn't all down to Mushtaq you know. Then maybe get him into the test coach job, when the side is full of players who know him and worked their backsides off for him.
Which leaves... everyone's saying it. Tom Moody. It will be one hell of a signing if the ECB can pull it off. I'm not sure they can but I'd love to be proved wrong.
And one more thing - if you're good enough, you're old enough works both ways, whether you're 18 or 38. Butcher and Ramprakash should, if they're in form, be seriously considered for selection. Did anyone see Ramps play last season? Awesome is not the word.
Complain about this postThank you Mr Fletcher for the fantastic things you've done for English TEST cricket, I for one am sorry you're gone. Test cricket is the true game, all the short games are just irrelevant money making exercises forgotten as soon as they are finished. Frankly I can barely raise any interest for the one day game and this WC has been one ridiculously long tiresome effort.
Lets hope we can recapture our best test form under one of the worlds premier test captains and loof forward to a bright summer against the Windies.
Complain about this postGood luck for the future.
Perhaps now a new broom will up the enthusiasm by England players to play for England and not themselves. Perhaps now a new coach will insist they play some County cricket to keep match fit, Match fitness does not come by batting and bowling in the nets as you cannot replicate match conditions their.
Complain about this postPerhaps now we will see Rob Key back where he belongs and Sajid M back at Lancashire where he belongs; he may be quick but just not good enough for test cricket
I congratulate the Board for making the appointment of England's new Coach in such a positive manner and ending all the speculation, but if they knew who the successor was going to be why did they have to appoint the Captain for the Test Series against The West Indies before the Coach had time to make an input???
Complain about this postEngland players need support and must not throw the towel in against West Indies. They will be playing WI in May in the Test Matches, and their last World Cup match is very important to moving on from Duncan Fletcher and being knocked out of the World Cup.
We need to beat West Indies. We have to play the Australian batting game and come out hitting in the powerplays and great batting performances all round.
England, don't cry in your beer, give the Barmy Army something to celebrate
Complain about this postPeter moores does not haVE FULL it experience what do you think
Complain about this postI am still left amazed by how fickle so many England cricket supporters are by demanding that Duncan Fletcher should leave his coaching role.
The England cricket team was well and truly in the doldrums when Mr. Fletcher took over the coaching position in 1999 and he has presided over a near total transformation in the team's performance over this time. I feel he has been harshly treated and unfairly held up as the scapegoat for the Ashes defeat and the World Cup fiasco. We have been fortunate to have such an effective and inspirational coach. There are so many England cricketers who have turned into international class players from fairly modest beginnings. I am sure Messrs. Trescothick, Vaughan, Flintoff and Harmison would not have developed into world class performers without Fletcher's expert guidance.
If we are to make sense of the dismal performances in this last 6 months, I would look into other aspects of English cricket. I see no reason for David Graveney to stay on as chairman of selectors. He has held this position for over 10 years and despite this amount of experience he has overseen a number of poor tour party selection errors for Australia and the World Cup.
I would also want to challenge the attitude of so many of our so-called leading players that I feel has been so damaging. Examples include:-
* some players choosing not to go the team Christmas dinner in Australia
* too much 'celebrity' style of behaviour by certain players
* some players not conforming to a team ethic
I would leave out the likes of Pietersen and look for more Collingwoods and Hoggards, i.e. cricketers who really put in 100% effort and commit everything to playing as part of a team.
Complain about this postI think the team should be...providing all fit
1. Trescothick
2.Pietersen
3. Bell
4. Collingwood
5. trescothick
6.Bopara
7. Nixon
8. Panesar
9 Hoggard
10 Jones
11 Plunkett
Bottom four are interchangasble
Complain about this postIf Fletcher is such a great coach, how long before other teams are queuing up for his signature? Tom Moody leaves Sri Lanka and WA are litterally begging him to come home and coach them. Dav Whatmore leaves Bangladesh and is already being touted as the next coach of India. I suspect that Fletcher will be more like another supposed great coach, Sven Erikson and will still be unemployed in a year's time.
Complain about this postYes, Fletcher had to go, I was surprised that Jonathan Agnew in his previous article suggested that he go after this summer's series.
There's no doubt he improved the test performances over his tenure, but the Ashes was a disaster. Sure Australia were very good, but there was no way we should have been white washed. He had to to take the blame for most of that, the team spirit & discipline had gone totally. His treatment of Panesar and Read in Australia was ridiculous.
ODI performances under Fletcher's watch have consistently been poor. Vaughan should not have been brought back for the World Cup, his ODI record was very poor and without any proper match practice (and this shouldn't have been at the world cup) he was never going to perform and totally undermines the team. Excellent net form or not, no captain is that good that he shouldn't be able to bat or bowl, or indeed field. His slow and out of form attitude effected all the players, it was no coincidence that Bell (SL & Aust) and Strauss's (SA) better performances were after Vaughan had gone.
The SA match was ridiculous, 9 runs after 7 overs and Vaughan's quote afterwards about winning the toss & looking to set a 220 target completely unambitious.
Yes, Fletcher had to go. Boycott had it totally right after the ICC trophy last year.
Vaughan needs to follow in ODI. Strauss or Collingwood should be made captain for the home games with W Indies.
I see Vaughan has been appointed capt for the West Indies test series, in order for this to be extended to the India series he should have prove himself. Passengers can't be carried captain or not.
Today I notice in an interview he says England have loss their last 6 test games (5 in Australia plus Pakistan) as well performing poorly in the ODIs. Actually incorrect, the Pakistan home series was won 3-0.
There seems to be alot of support for recalling Trescothick, I don't go with this we need to pick consistently and there's little doubt that he won't tour again.
Similarly Harmison shouldn't be an automatic pick, he's not performed for a long while at the top level.
And Flintoft should not bat higher than 7 or 8 until he proves some form and be selected purely as a bowler.
Coach wise, I don't know much about Peter Moore but he seems to have a good county record and should be given a chance. He certainly faces a tough task, and needs to restore team confidence and discipline quickly.
Complain about this postLuckily West Indies aren't the force of late 70's, 80's and early 90's, otherwise it would be a very tough start.
So much negativity. Typical of us brits, Fletcher won us back the ashes, he instilled a belief and a structure, yes we have been poor recently but we have had major injuries to key players. He as made some mistakes, but tell me this new guy will do any better, hmm jury is out, i hope he does, but i would like to say thank you Fletch for all your hard work, i was working part time in summer 2005 and it made my summer to watch us beat those smug aussies. He is a great coach, and all the players respected him, to say he was loyal is true but rather that than turns his back on players. All those pundits (Aggers included) said Harmison was not good enough when he started, Fletch stuck by him and made him into the No. 1 bowler in the world. Nuff said. Cheers Dunc. All the best
Complain about this postHarmison was never the No 1 bowler in the world.
Complain about this postIts hard being a pom in australia good to see the back of him England would not win a push down a slide with him thank god
Complain about this postApologies; I meant Stuart Broad, not Chris Broad, earlier, when mentioning bowlers.
Complain about this postAnd England will have to et Lara out earlier- big match for him- if they wish to avoid total humiliation by the west indies.
I think the general sentiments towards Duncan Fletcher are grateful ones and it has reallly been the last few months that have generated criticism rather than before.
Complain about this postAs regards future selection, I am not sure that you can distinguish too much between one day specialists and test players. Look at the other teams at the world cup, they have virtually picked their test teams. Pick the best side and the best players should be able to adapt (except Vaughan).
Hoggard would have played well in the world cup as would Cook. Often one day specialists in county cricket are not test standard players like Nixon. All heart and effort yes but not a test player.
The key will be to build a strong squad for England rather than divide into test and one day camps.
Boot camp in Snowdonia?
I have read with interest all the comments from england's cricket followers. I understand your angst about getting it right for the future. My comments are as an outsider..here goes...
Complain about this post*you stress Fletcher was respected or liked by the team-average teams feel comfortable with average coaches.
*sick of the gobble gook that Vaughan and Fletcher deliver at press conferences-it does display their mind set, so have them listen to Flemming's analysis after a game. N.Z winning or losing!
*get rid of your overuse of superlatives and overexpectations of what really is only a group of good county players with occasional success -nobody is "good, brilliant gifted, a natural, etc "for years, and until they have been noticed internationally by others e.g. already the future is being predicted for Bopara and in 2 years you may be saying "Bopara who?"
*to win , you must train how you'll play-even I ,on a TV screen can see the snap of fitness and fast reactions is all but lacking. It doesn't hurt any player in Aust to know he is scrutinised every game in the state system and whether he"turns up". Some wait years for a team place, and must produce excellence consistantly. Surely England can produce the large pool of talent needed at grass roots-and then get tough,everybody does not get a game, does not get paid and must embrace the ethic of "this is a career". If they were in any other business and did not strengthen team cohesion and results, they'd be sacked.
*other business men go away without families in tow, cant take as many sickies,dont moan about how long and tough the tour has been, dont complain about somebody said something nasty to them, and look at speadsheets for the real story.
SOUND FAMILIAR?
*you say you invented the game. Duh! If you'd invented the wheel -would you still be surprised that the world uses it now-identify who wants to reinvent English cricket and get on with nurturing skilled ,fit winning talent that expects work and not too much praise.
*come on England, dont drop your bundle, we need you strong and competative.
*so get some people at the top who have those disciplined habits who love being accountable. Get rid of closed pampered circles and selectors, coaches and players who feel smug and safe. And when challenged, if this upsets them-tell them to find another job!
I cannot understand why Flintoff does not open the batting. He used to in his yonger days in the Nat West one day matches. Ever since KP came on the scene Flintoff has failed. batting either after KP's glory or in an a situation where he is required to perform in a similar fashion to KP. when KP has failed. Flintoff and Strauss would make an ideal combination both capable of hitting the loose ball and also the good ones and from Flintoff stance he would have the freedom to go for it from the start.
Complain about this postHowever one views DF's time in charge - and he did a lot of good for English cricket -- what never ceases to amaze me is the fact that some so called 'key' members of the 'squad' assume the automatic right to play - quotes like - ' after the break I'll be ready for the first test' - 'I shall definitiely be on the plane to the Carribean come what may' - 'I'm looking forward to playing against so and so'
Have central contracts brought about too much of a comfort zone?
Complain about this postFletcher going is just scapegoating. The facts are other than Flintoffs bowling or KP's batting, non of the England team were performing at County class level, let alone World Class level.
Fletcher going will not change this although wiseos like Agnew, Frazer and Pringle zero in on responsibility. Perhaps Englnad showed have attacked the powerplays more, vaughan out or down the order. The players were shadows who didn't produce with the bat, and could not match the best in Australia, NZ, SA and Sri Lanka. It was the players (batting) fault, not the coaches, as Collingwood correctly states. They were simply not in form with the bat. These are the facts from someone at the centre.
Complain about this postAre all England coaches compared to Nelson at Gibraltar ?
Beat England & let the english media crusify the coach !
I don`t think that "Jesus" would last as England coach in any sport.
Look at Svennis record & did Clive Woodward stay on as World Cup Champ ?
You make it an impossible post to stay in any length of time !
Expectations are too high & you麓re never going to be World Champions in football or cricket if you don`t give the players the chance to "suprise" you.
As it is you demand them too win or get lost !
Just my view !
H盲lsningar Staffan
P.S. Oz will win the World Cup eazzzzy !
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