Adebayor's started so well for Man City
The nation seems to be angry
Judging from the phone-in yesterday on gangs on the streets, a lot of you really have had enough. Many stories from you about being attacked in similar circumstances to Gary Newlove outside his home in Warrington while he was trying to protect his property. We're going to send a CD of the first hour of the programme to the Home Secretary Jacqui Smith - and try very hard to get her onto the programme to talk to you. I'll let you know how we get on.
Your can listen again to the phone-in online. Either download the mp3 for free or listen again in the ´óÏó´«Ã½ iPlayer.
Youth with no agenda / ambition / hope appears to be a substantial part of the problem.
Inherent in the problem; parents; schools; society.
Parents: If they have no expectations or no moral code to pass on to their children then the child will grow without ethical guide to decide their behaviour or hope for a future better or more challenging than their parents.
Solution: At the first indication that the child is destined for an empty life which will inevitably lead to anti-social behaviour intervene through compulsory family (child and parents) educational programmes. Failure to attend and involve themselves will to the child being placed in special schools and the parents being denied access to child benefits and/or specific benefits.
Combines education to assist and sanctions as encourage.
Schools All children are entitled to a education which releases their potential both in their own interests and the interests of society. Education is denied where undisciplined youths disrupt schools and classes.
Solution: Review the effectiveness of the present types of discipline. The review to be headed by a respected head teacher and primarily consist of working teachers from all types of schools. Politicians to be obliged to agree to the proposals.
Where discipline fails then an additional level of education to be established. Different levels to be applied and to be associated with the parental initiative – featuring special classes isolated from normal schooling, thus not disrupting other childrens’ education – through to special schools with accommodation either permanent away from parents r specific periods / weekends etc.
Discipline is not just the texture of achievement but also allows proper consideration of the interest of others.
There are certain other ‘signals’ that society sends which require to be examined:
Drink – look carefully at the glorification of drink as the focus of celebration. Getting ‘off your head’ is too often the only way of celebrating an achievement.
Drugs – consider the legalisation all drugs with the imposition of licensing and treatment centres.
Police – re-examine the targeting and detailed activities of police officers, involving paperwork, targets etc. The above drug proposal would release (it is claimed) a further substantial time for ‘proper’ policing. Review the means of patrolling ie, cars, bicycles, on foot. A similar review of police activities to be undertaken as with schools – ie working police officers to be instrumental.
Justice – where all the above fails for individuals, review again sentencing guidelines and rehabilitation.
What I am looking forward to a politician who has the guts to be honest and put their head above the parapit and say things are out of control. They are all to afraid of loosing votes and their expense accounts. We have to get tough and remove these thugs from the streets. If it takes curfews, tough sentances, zero tolerance then so be it. Any politician with the balls to say this gets my vote. None of them will. The home secretary will be no different. Is it time we stood up for ourselves?
While everyone has the utmost sympathy for the widow in this case, it's never a good idea to decide justice on the views of those emotionally involved. By no means everyone shares her view that "life should mean life" for the young people convicted.
Gangs of teenagers hanging about and looking for trouble is not a new phenomenon. It's probably getting a bit worse recently because they can get cheap drink more easily, but overall the streets are much safer than they were in the days when most people went to church and morality was proclaimed from the pulpit. Teddy boys in the fifties were regarded as out of control, while street fights were a common sight after the pubs shut at 10 or 10.30pm.
I believe there is a very real problem with a 'lack of consequence for actions'. Today's youngsters are learning, more so than any other time in the past, that the consequences of their anti-social/threatening/violent behaviour is minimal. Nothing happens. If they hang around street corners in a group, drinking alcohol, intimidating people, and generally making a nusiance of themselves - nothing happens. If they mug, or shop lift, graffiti on walls, etc, even if caught - nothing happens! This is the route of the problem. They must learn that there are consequences if they behave anti-socially. Once they have learnt that anti-social behaviour has no consequences, it's almost impossible for them to 'un-learn' it later in life.
Why can't we adapt the old 'village stocks' idea of shame, to fit the 21st century. Shame is a very effective motivator. For example - if someone is caught, tried, and convicted of shoplifting, why can't the shop be allowed to post a head and shoulders photo of the culprit, together with details of the crime committed and punishment administered, in the window of their shop, for 30 days? The culprit suffers the shame, as does his/her parents and family, other shopkeepers are made aware of a local shoplifter, it's cheap and effective. Best of all, nobody is affected apart from the one person who should be affected - the inconsiderate toe-rag who (obviously) needs to learn a lesson. It doesn't involve the useless time, trouble and expense of councilling/community service/ASBO/whatever. As a bonus, the shopkeeper himself gets to feel more personally involved in improving his own neighbourhood. Win-win all round!
Just one suggestion, but I'm sure there are lots of similar ideas along the same theme.
Regards, Grudfuttle.
How about a noticeboard in the square of every town, village and city in the land? Anyone who commits a crime, and is found guilty, has to suffer the embarrasment of seeing their photo and details of their crime, punishment and the effects of their crime on the victim, all posted by the victim himself/herself. Any crime victim should be allowed the right to post a description of the crime committed against them, by whom, and more importantly, how the crime has impacted them, in the town square 'rogues gallery'. Name 'em and shame 'em I say! Few people will be happy to see their photo in there.
This is the type of thing that everyone, ordinary citizens, can be involved in. Better than moaning about "the Government should do something".
Anyone any similar suggestions?
Regards, Grudfuttle.
Victoria,
As in most things in life, money always has an effect on people. For parents with children under 18 misbehaving, why don't we set up a system where for certain nuisance behaviors, the parents right to unemployment benefit, child benefit or other Government paid benefits are taken away for week when their children are caught, warned or charged. Extended periods of non payment can be put in place for repeated offenses. For more serious stuff for under 18's, why not take away the right for parents to have a passport for a year or two or even their driving licenses for fixed periods?
I can guarantee that when the life of these so-called parents is disrupted or that they have a financial penalty they will be strongly motivated to take responsibility for their children.
This Government has allowed the stain of poor manners, lack or respect and bad behavior to become the norm and its time to take action to correct this. All citizens have responsibilities in our society so let us hold these parents responsible for the actions of their so called 'children'. If these parents are willing to take tax payers money in terms of benefits, we should require minimum standards from them. In any event, responsibility without accountability means that society cannot properly function, as we are seeing now.
Andy
--
Gary Newlove will not have died in vain if we really can make this the turning point.
No longer the ill mannered & loutish thugs causing fear to the law -abiding. They themselves must be made to fear the disapproval of Society.
Quiet, courteous & considerate behaviour on the streets, the buses & trains. Less sympathy for 'human rights' & more for the good of humanity.
I am fed up with being told schools are failing many of the youth. It is taxpayers who are funding the schools - the opportunities are there for all, even if the roof is leaking.
Those opportunities are now abused by many who then claim a life on benefit. Sit still & learn. If not get thrown out.
In many parts of the world people are dying for the opportunities some youngsters here throw away.
But which government would have sufficient backing to stand up to those who have advocated removing every sanction Society once had?
Please let us help to make the tide turn & Gary Newlove's name heroic.
Stella Herbert.
I doubt you'll get Ms Smith to come on to the show. She was appointed as a mouth piece for the control-freak Brown and is not there to think for herself.
It seems ironic that only on Monday there was a discussion on Radio 2 about the vigilanties in Northern Ireland that still punish juvenile crime. It's not right, but I bet there are many people over here that believe that to be favourable to the lawlessness current in England.
The solution, it seems to me, is in 3 parts:
1) More police on the streets to arrest these thugs.
2) Far stronger sentences from the courts.
3) Parallel sentences for the parents.
Unfortunately, this is not a recent problem and nothing has been done in the past to solve it, and nothing will be done in the future. It makes me so angry that Labour came in with such a majority that they could easily have rectified so many issues that make day to day living a misery for so many people. But instead what did they do? They banned fox hunting, allowed 24 hour drinking, and encouraged gambling. They do not live in the same world.
most of us have missed the point its not the drink that is to blame,its lack of respect for other people & other peoples property.Do you think like I do that this anti social behavior seems to have started when capital punishment was stopped at secondry schools.The school would send a letter home to your parents for permission & when the school had finished with you when you got home you get it again off your dad.I think its time to stop pussy footing around with this situation and time to make some drastic changes.
Every school leaver at the age of 16 should complete 2 years non combat national service,where they can learn to cook,wash & iron & look after themselves.And they can learn a trade to bring back out with them to put back into society therefore sorting out the lack of skills in this country.
Ian Ingram
Birmingham
Lets start by banning breweries from sponsoring the football. Come on Radio 5, stop calling it the Carling Cup. can't because of legal reasons? Oh, that's OK then.
We all abrogated our collective responsibility toward the upbringing of children back in the greedy 80s when we cut jobs and welfare and sold the decent council housing. Now all we do is complain - about aggressive youth who the state won't take action against and nannyism; against the lack of police and taxation. As usual, we want the state to interfer in other people's lives but not ours, and we want more public servants but less taxation.
We feel rich and powerless.
I think the solution is simple, make all MPs and law makers live with their families in the areas of their constituences where the most problems with anti social and criminal behaviour occur.
John Winter says that Labour's banning of foxhunting has encouraged teenage louts to cause mayhem.
Give them all a horse, John. That'll sort them out.
Tallyho!
Hi Victoria
I was delighted to hear so much sense being spoken on your programme on this subject. In my opinion over the last 5 years there has been a breakdown in society culminating in shocking cases such as the tragic death of Gary Newlove.
It has to stop, almost everybody I know is absolutely sick of the whole situation.
Very briefly my solutions would be:
- Compulsory national service at 18 for 3 years in armed forces to instill discipline.
- Make prison so tough and horrible that nobody ever wants to go back: the prisons currently are a joke, try no tv, damp / dark cells, solitary confinement for long periods etc ect This would mean less people going to prison providing more money for policing the streets.
- Tougher sentences: if you beat somebody up, you get 10 years inside. Let's make the punishment so extreme that these thugs think twice before kicking somebody to death in the streets.
There's a start!
I think there should be a nationwide march, where ordinary law obiding people take to the streets to protest against the state of this society.
To be surprised that 'the nation is angry' shows just how badly the ´óÏó´«Ã½ misses the mood of the nation - again. Of course we are unhappy. A decade of labour rule - the party that's supposed to represent the people - and the fabric of our society is in worse shape now than it has been for fifty years. This tragedy is just the tip of the iceberg. None of us believe any more that if criminals are even caught that they will be given the kind of punishment they deserve. There are not enough police or prisons and we have a soft liberal government that does not belive is punishment. I am sick and tired of the way this country is falling apart. I am sick of labour and I am staggered that the ´óÏó´«Ã½ is actually unaware how people feel. So here's a tip - why not send some of your reporters out into the community instead of keeping every one tucked up nice and cosy in plush offices in London and Birmingham? Start being reporters - proper journalists - instead of embarrassing reality show luvvies and you might see what's actually happening to this country. Read any local paper from any part of the country and you will see every day of the week more examples of how communities are being torn apart by all kinds of crime. Jesus - it's not hard!!!!
Just spotted Ian Ingram's comment that "this anti social behavior seems to have started when capital punishment was stopped at secondry schools.The school would send a letter home to your parents for permission ..."
Isn't it a bit drastic to cull the population??!
Society is at fault? WE are society.
I cannot speak for England or Great Britain. I do know that in America, many people are angry about the housing situation, the economy, the war in Iraq, The Republicans, and Democrats. In fact, the Green Party [along with Congressmen Wexler, Gutierrez, and Kucinich] have presented Congress and the House of Representatives for the impeachment of Bush and Cheney. Check in the Google Page under Impeach Cheney. Thank You.
CRIME:
I have a feeling that the IQ of those guilty pf 'Street Crime' etc might bear a serious looking-at. Or is this this not 'PC'?
Victoria, I know this will cause you pressure, and I am really sorry if it does. but you seem the only person within the ´óÏó´«Ã½ to whom I can make a valid point - without being callled Racist etc etc etc...
I simply ask, why is this woman claiming damages for ATTEMPTED Rape?
On the other hand, is it ONLY Women - yet again - that can claim such damages?
What about the proven-innocent MEN that were accused of Rape etc - but were acquitted? - can they not also claim damages?
Again - why cannot ALL victims of ANY crime claim damages???
I am puzzled - it seems that ONLY Women are considerd and ALWAYS treated differently to Men.
WE Men are SO disconsolate - Sorry.
I would really appreciate only a response. I have tried to raise such points on 'HYS' but have been ignored for at least one year... I gave up.
Many Thanks, Victoria... Tez
Why cannot we not able to 'SEND' comments to your Blog?
Victoria, I know this will cause you pressure, and I am really sorry if it does. but you seem the only person within the ´óÏó´«Ã½ to whom I can make a valid point - without being callled Racist etc etc etc...
I simply ask, why is this woman claiming damages for ATTEMPTED Rape?
On the other hand, is it ONLY Women - yet again - that can claim such damages?
What about the proven-innocent MEN that were accused of Rape etc - but were acquitted? - can they not also claim damages?
Again - why cannot ALL victims of ANY crime claim damages???
I am puzzled - it seems that ONLY Women are considerd and ALWAYS treated differently to Men.
WE Men are SO disconsolate - Sorry.
I would really appreciate only a response. I have tried to raise such points on 'HYS' but have been ignored for at least one year... I gave up.
Many Thanks, Victoria... Tez
I really must complain and ask exactly WHY this and many other of my Comments - although they do NOT break the 'Modrators' Rules - are CONSTANTLY 'Rejected'!
Either the Moderators or the ´óÏó´«Ã½ itself, are Biassed!
Which is it?
I am taking this up with my MP - I am so frustrated...
Hi Terry (above),
Some of your comments don't seem to be on-topic for the blog post, which may be why some of them are not being passed by the moderators.
While this blog post is about street crime, you are commenting about women claiming damages for attempted rape - this is off the topic of the blog entry.
You might have more luck if you try posting on the 5 live messageboards, which are for discussion of current news stories.
SUGGESTION: Re: cutting Police Paperwork:
Victoria,
Could not PCs have Microphones attached to them to transmit details directly back to Base where it can be entered onto a form by relevant Staff? (as some do Cameras)?
Terry, Derby.
PROSTITUTION - PAYING FOR SEX:
If Prostitutes are 'forced' to turn to Prostitution to earn a Living, then deal with the Source of the problem - Drug addiction etc - as most other addicts have to do - Rehab etc.
The truth is, that many people WANT to be Prostitutes.
Surely we should Ban both the BUYING of Sex AND the Selling of sex.
If Prostitutes did not Sell - Buyers could not Buy and maybe then, the Prostitutes would be Safer...
Prostitutes cannot be treated as Special in this way.