大象传媒

Are you an ex-pat living in China?

Comments

1. At 04:48 PM on 07 Apr 2008, Geoff Capes wrote:

   Well, it's a welcoming sign we can now access the 大象传媒 website. Shame the authorities weren't so open with the media when the recent violence in Tibet kicked off. By refusing to allow independent reporting on the situation, state media broadcasts clearly lost all credibility. Still, most Chinese believe that the majority of victims were Han, under attack from Tibetan rioters. There is a very common view among ordinary Chinese that the West continues to demonise the country and look down on its people. Let's hope at least the Western media provides balanced coverage of what is happening - for example during the torch relay - as otherwise it will reinforce this view.
   For what it's worth, I feel that having the Olympics in Beijing should encourage far more change for good than giving China the cold shoulder.
   

2. At 05:55 PM on 07 Apr 2008, Daniel wrote:

   Hi Victoria,

   I live in Hong Kong. HK is a testament to Chinese liberalism and plurality, a part of the Chinese state which the western media just do not seem to recognise.

   The Chinese Government established HK under the HK Basic Law, which encapsulates 'two systems one country'. In doing so, the Chinese Government, have recognised the right to cultural self determination and pluralism within the People's Republic. Such prescient foresight should be acknowledged and applauded by the Western media.

   China is such a vast and complex 'federation' that comparisons with the governance of the UK are meaningless. As such, I hope that the British Govt. realise that culturally appropriate support for the Chinese Govt. is the most effective way of supporting the continued efforts to improve the living standards of all those in the People's Republic.

   best wishes,

   Daniel.

3. At 07:38 PM on 07 Apr 2008, victoria wrote:

   Thanks Geoff and Daniel, really interesting...are there anymore of you out there? We'd like to invite some of you onto the programme to talk about your life there..so do keep sharing your experiences

4. At 12:13 AM on 08 Apr 2008, Matt Horn wrote:

   I am an ex-pat living in Guangzhou, South China. I am a football journalist from England and for five years have been teaching journalism here. I also work on a local TV station, and host a radio show "My Guangdong" that can be heard around the world.
   This is an amazing country to live and work in. It is vibrant, exciting, the people are great and the opportunities are limitless. As a journalist I am more than aware of the restrictions on the press here, I see it regularly as coverage of sensitive topics on Hong Kong news channels are blocked on a daily basis.
   All that does for those who are interested in news is persuade people to go to the internet and find out what the story might be. I listen to Five Live for hours at a time, ensuring I am well informed.
   There is more information out there today than when I arrived during the SARS outbreak and gradually the government will realise that the damn of news information has been breached and they can no longer be the boy with the finger in the dyke.
   My students are a mixture of University of Central Lancashire students who study two years here and one in Preston and regular students who study a four year degree here.
   We regularly discuss issues such as Tibet, looking at coverage both in China and around the world. They are aware of the problmes in the region but also note the errors Western news organisations have made in the reporting there. In fact there is no subject that is taboo in my classroom.
   China is far from perfect but it shares much with western "democracies". The average man and woman in the street cares little for politics, they simply want a decent lifestyle, food on the table, money in their pocket.
   I am ignorant of much about life in the rural areas but in the big cities children are well educated, albeit in a different way from back home, and the old people are respected and cared for.
   I feel safer on the streets of this city of 10 million people at 3am than in Preston, Manchester, Liverpool, London or anywhere in the UK.
   Kids don't drink on street corners. Young adults are not rolling around drunk late at night. There is not an undercurrent of violence on a Saturday night.
   There are many problems that need addressing, only a fool could think otherwise, but that applies at home, in France, in the States.
   I am proud to have been a guest in this country for the past five years, I appreciate the opportunities I have been given, and I treasure the friendships I have made.
   We have had countless visitors from work, family and friends and everyone, bar none, loves it here.
   I believe the Olympics can only be a force for good, increasing the reporting of China and allowing an unprecedented number of journalists into the country.
   I am a sports journalist and not so naive to think sport and politics do not mix, being a fervent support of the South Africa boycott way back when.
   I am glad a boycott is not being suggested here at a time when the world and his wife wants to do business in China. Why can we have Made in China but not have Compete in China.
   For those who do come to China for the Games, it will also help to demystify the country and let them see how kind and welcoming the people of this nation are.
   China has changed a great deal in the five years I have lived here, not to mention the now 30 years since the start of the policy of opening up and reforming. That change will continue and I look forward to seeing what this country has become and how it has changed in the next 30 years.

5. At 02:03 AM on 08 Apr 2008, Gareth Hughes wrote:

   I am an expat living in the north east of China in Changchun. I have lived and worked here for 4 years.
   In general life in China is great, every day is an adventure, every day is interesting and its hard to find anywhere more different than China (North Korea qualifies, I went there back in 2005, but thats another story). The people are friendly, curious, open, warm and above all very peaceful. There is little crime here and most of what there is tends to be corruption, most foreigners who come here feel much safer than in their own country and all are really comfortable walking alone at night (not that you are ever alone in China). On a day to day basis
   I can echo much of what Matt horn wrote about education, values, wealth and general life although there are major differences between Guangzhou and Changchun, much like there are between say Newcstle and Brighton. I rarely see police other than traffic police, in fact day to day you rarely see any authority, yet if you believe the stories in the media everyone is repressed and held back by the strong arm of the state.

   What is really getting on my nerves at the moment is the rampant hypocrisy practised by the West in reagrds to China. They want to protest about human rights but in the act of their protests they physically stop a person from walking the streets with a torch - congratulations you all get double standards of the year award. Shall we all campaign for a Basque region alongside ETA? How many freedoms have we lost in the name of the war on terror? How strong a line did we take with Turkey over Cyprus? Guantanamo Bay, the violence during the miners strike, forcing the Chinese to accept opium as payment for tea and then stealing Hong Kong, zero help when Japan invaded, etc, etc - how far do we look back or do we live just in the now?
   China bashing has gone on for years and due to the inward looking nature of the Chinese they rarely defend themselves so the attacks continue thicker and faster. China has many issues to solve, that is not in doubt, but believe me, ordering, commanding, lecturing and generally trying to force your will onto the Chinese people will never succeed or bear fruit. If you engage them, befriend them and get to know them then it is more likely you can exert some influence. I've watched a few expats come and go and generally the more successful guys take the slow road. If a total stranger tells you its deadly to cross a certain road but then your best friend tells you its fine whom do you believe?
   Personally I witnessed a demonstration just yesterday at Pudong airport when the pasengers from a cancelled plane blocked other passengers taking a later plane as they felt it should be theirs, it all ended amicably and without any threats or force. The Chinese are stubborn, independant and very rarely do exactly what you want, that is why we should be complimenting them on the progress made in the past 20 years, reminding them that the olympics carry a weight of responsibility and that if they want more events we expect to see progress made on the issues we raise. Certainly ruining the dreams of 1.3 billion people by mass boycotts would simply set back the reform process and China's engagement with the world ,pretty much the reverse of the intent.
   These guys need to understand the Chinese mind set and perhaps reach for the carrot rather than the instinctive Western reaction of reaching for the stick, North East Asia doesn't work that way.

6. At 02:58 AM on 08 Apr 2008, Tilary wrote:

   Hi Victoria,
   I'm a foreigner living in Shanghai, although am not a British expat.
   I recently stopped my job working in a large multinational and am now a working as a freelance writer.

   I think Shanghai is the least 鈥淐hinese鈥� city in mainland China - it's very cosmopolitan and you can get away with not being able to speak a single word of Chinese because there are so many expats and the Shanghainese, the professionals working in the cities, tend to speak English.
   Which is great if you don't speak Chinese but also a shame if what you want is to immerse yourself in authentic Chinese culture.

   One thing you notice is that disabled people are conspicuous by their absence. Perhaps that seems and odd observation to make but I have been here for a few years and I can鈥檛 remember, even once, seeing a person in a wheelchair or someone with any sort of a walking aid or even a baby in a stroller anywhere on the streets. Apart from the beggars, disabled people seem to be invisible. My mother walks with a cane and when she came to visit me I realised why: We really struggled to get around the city: the subway stations, the buses, restaurants, the tourist sights etc. because very few places (private or public) catered for the mobility impaired.

   What I do love about living here is that I feel incredibly safe (touch wood!). Having spent the three years prior to moving here in London, it really strikes you how your perception changes. For example, walking home late at night on your own, after a night out, is not a big deal. Not something that I do often but I would be quite happy to do so if I couldn't get a cab and I wouldn't worry about the same things that I did when I lived in London.

   I also have a much better lifestyle here than I had in London because I can easily save at least a quarter of my salary each month and still be able to indulge in some of the frivolous things that aren鈥檛 exactly necessities. Not that I can go crazy, but here it鈥檚 less about barely scraping by than it was before.

   I find Chinese people a lot warmer and friendlier than stereotypes give them credit for. They are genuinely interested in you and fascinated by other cultures. Although it does take a little getting used to always being referred to as a 鈥渇oreigner鈥� rather than just a person. There is definitely a sense of 鈥渦s鈥� and 鈥渢hem鈥� which, while certainly not hostile, is distinct and makes it hard to feel anything other than a sense of being in transit. Even though I鈥檝e been here for 4 and a half years now.
   

7. At 04:30 AM on 08 Apr 2008, alan in Shanghai wrote:

   hi, i live in a part of shanghai called Gubei and work in xujiahui (downtown). I travel a lot to Chengdu and shenzhen and have done for ten years.
   Chinese people are normally very polite to westerners, but not always to one another. The elderly are like old people in the UK they tend to smile a lot but have no patience! life here is great, it is safe, walm and easy to get about. I've lived in Manchester, Southampton, Cambridge and London, but this is my favorite place. The local children here are nice and well mannered. I have a 3 & 5 year old with blonde hair so the locals give them loads of attention. People who have bad comments about China and usually people who have never lived here. My wife hated it here for the first 4 weeks, now she loves it. like all developing ecomonies there are very poor areas, but the middle class is growing at a fast rate.. they still have about 20 years to catch up on the UK, but they are catching up and life here improves every year. if you lived in a UK city and 'dream about' ' the good old days' when kids could play out and it was safe.. but 'we did not have much to live on' then welcome to china today! there's part of me hope that it will never develop like the rest of the western world.
   The Tibet issue is only an issue to people with nothing better to do. We in the west have very short memories, the British have a lot to be embarrassed about and the Americans tend to make their own rules up for what ever suits them at any moment in time.

   At least the Chinese are not invading other parts of the world and forcing their own ideals on other nations, they are protecting what is theirs! like we did in Northern Ireland for many years.

   America should look within itself before it takes the moral high ground. a certain detainment camp in Cuba is something they should not be very proud of.

8. At 04:49 AM on 08 Apr 2008, china supporter wrote:

   銆�銆�The Riots in Lhasa

   銆�銆�by Eirik Granqvist, a foreign expert in Shanghai who visited Tibet in 2006

   銆�銆�"The western medias announced that China had cut all information and that articles about the riots could not be sent out! I got mad about all the apparently incorrect information and wrote this article and two other similar ones although I am not a journalist but just because I could not stand all the bad things about China that was told. I sent them by e-mail without problems and they arrived well but two newspapers did neither respond neither publish what I had written. The third answered and wanted a shorter version that was published many days later as a normal 'readers voice'. What Dalai Lama had said was largely published every day together with a real anti-China propaganda. What I had written was apparently too China friendly for the 'free press'."

   銆�銆�I was very shocked by what I had seen in the television and been reading in China daily about the riots in Lhasa. The most that shocked me was anyhow may be not the cruel events by themselves but how the medias in my country of origin, Finland, reported the events. A friend has scanned and sent me articles and I have checked also myself what can be found at Internet.

   銆�銆�Very few Finnish people have ever visited Tibet, but I was there together with my wife in 2006. This was private persons and not as a part of a group-travel. I have seen Lhasa with my own eyes. I have been talking and chatting with people there. This was without any restrictions. Okay, we had a lovely and very competent guide that helped us much and took us where we wanted to go in the mornings but in the afternoons we were alone. Therefore I think that I have something to tell.

   銆�銆�I am also interested in history and know more than people in general. When writing this, I do not have any reference books so I write out of my memory. If I do a small mistake somewhere, I beg your pardon. Anyhow, I think that this gives my writing an objectivity. I am well aware of that I will be accused for this and that for writing what I think is the truth. I will be accused by those who think that they know but do not know and by those that haven't seen by their own eyes.

   銆�銆�Tibet was for centuries an autonomous concordat between Nepal and China. Sometimes China ruled Nepal as well. The king of Tibet used therefore to have one Chinese wife and one Nepalese and then a number of Tibetan ones.

   銆�銆�With the fifth Dalai Lama, the religious and the political power were unified under the rule of one person, The Dalai Lama. Tibet became a theocratic dictatorship and closed itself for the rest of the world. No foreigners were anymore allowed in.

   銆�銆�At the end of the nineteenth century, the famous Swedish traveller Sven Hedin made an attempt to reach Lhasa but was sent politely back, out of Tibet by Dalai Lama.

   銆�銆�A French woman, Alexandra David-N茅el was more successful. She visited Lhasa dressed as a Tibetan pilgrim and she was fluent in the Tibetan language. She told how she was afraid many times that she should be discovered and then she knew that she like other suspects or opponents should "happen to fall down" from the walls of the Potala palace.

   銆�銆�Tibet was not a paradise. Tibet was an inhuman dictatorship!

   銆�銆�The weakened Chinese Qing Dynasty had more and more lost its influence in Tibet. Tibet became more and more interesting for the Russian empire in the north and the British in the south.

   銆�銆�In 1903 a British army expedition directed by the colonel Younghusband reached Lhasa. The British lost 4 soldiers but slaughtered more the 700 Tibetans that tryed to stop them, mainly by magic. The British installed "a commercial representation" in Lhasa. The Chinese evacuated Dalai Lama to the Qinghai plateau where he hade limited rights of move, probably for preventing him from having contacts with the British occupants.

   銆�銆�The Finnish national hero, Marshal Mannerheim, visited him there in 1907 during his famous horseback trip through central Asia. He was then a colonel in the Tsar Russian army and his trip was in reality a spy trip. Therefore the 13th Dalai Lama was interesting.

   銆�銆�The power of Dalai Lama was weakened. In 1950 the PLA marched in to Tibet without war. The 14th Dalai Lama seems at the beginning to have accepted this just as a security for his power as the theocratic dictator he was. He enlarged and restructured the Norbulingka Summer Palace in a luxury way in 1954.

   銆�銆�The Chinese decided anyhow to finish with the cruel theocratic dictatorship under which the opponents fell down from Potala. The borders where during this dictatorship closed for all foreigners and the only schools where the religious ones. It is well known that it is easier to rule a population with a low education and is ignoring the outside world. In Tibet, about 5% of the population owned everything and the rest literally nothing. About 40% of the Tibetans were monks and nuns living as parasites on the rest of the population that had to feed them. Tibet was not a paradise!

   銆�銆�Now China decided that the Tibetans should have the same rights and place in the society as the rest of the country's population. The monasteries should be emptied from their excessively large monk and nun populations.

   銆�銆�Tibet could earlier be reached only by some horse trails and was for the rest insulated. The Chinese built rapidly a trafficable road. The insulation was broken.

   銆�銆�In 1959, the young Dalai Lama caused a peoples upraising, using the religion as power since he was loosing his own powerful position. The upraising was however stopped, may be in not a too clever and smooth manner. Dalai Lama then left Tibet and his fellow citizens and escaped to India wherefrom he has continued to fight for his come back and reinstall the theocratic dictatorship that China will never allow again.

   銆�銆�Then followed the ten years of Cultural Revolution that was an unhappy time for all China that closed itself to the rest of the world.

   銆�銆�Now Lhasa has a modern airport and a railway. China has invested a lot in Tibet. The standard of living has been raised a lot in Tibet and last Xmas I have seen Tibetans spending sun-holidays on Hainan Island! Very lucky looking old women in traditional dresses walking on the beach with their husbands and the youngsters dressed like other young people enjoying the beach life.

   銆�銆�The possibilities for Dalai Lama to take back his power has diminished and he does not anymore have the population with him. China and India are developing their cooperation and with the closer friendship, India will for sure also not more admit Dalai Lama to disturb this development. His possibilities to act against China will be diminished.

   銆�銆�Therefore he undertook recently an around the world diplomatic travel since he has seen the possibility of harming the now good international image of China and provoking boycotts of the Olympic games in Beijing.

   銆�銆�The Lhasa riots where very well prepared. Curriers where crossing the borders illegally for to see Dalai Lama and get his orders. A group of foreign mountain climbers filmed recently across the border an unlucky incident when one of these curriers got shot and another that crossed the border openly declared that he wanted to go to see the Dalai Lama. I have seen that in television just before I left for China in November.

   銆�銆�China is no longer a closed country. There is no need for illegal border crossings if you are not doing something illegally! You just ask for a passport and take the necessary visas and cross the border at a legal border crossing or better, just take a regular flight from Lhasa to Kathmandu!

   銆�銆�There where no peaceful demonstrations in Lhasa that where brutally knocked down! Young men went to action after a well prepared scenario at many places at the same time so that police and fire brigade should be taken by surprise and unable to act everywhere at the same time. This was successful! People where just knocked down without differences and all what could be broken was broken in the shortest possible time. With Molotov cocktails, fires where lit and fire cars where stopped. 18 normal citizens where killed without feelings and one police. The police had order to not respond with firearms for not being internationally blamed!

   銆�銆�When I have seen the filmed riots in television, my diagnosis was immediately clear. The scenario was the same that I had seen many times of organized riots in France since more the forty years of tight familiar contacts and 21 years of living there. The difference was only that less ordinary people seemed to take part in Lhasa. The rioters where surprisingly few but well organized! China's positive image in the world should be damaged!

   銆�銆�Dalai Lama is acting as the friendly and peaceful father. This is an old trick that also dictators like Hitler and Stalin used. I am not comparing him with them but he is acting like a demon when he tries to take back his power at any cost, not once caring for human lives and against Buddhistic non-violence principles. It was a try to do a coup d'猫tat that failed. Now he is asking for international help for to stop the violence that he, himself had planned!

   銆�銆�When I visited Tibet in 2006, I was surprised by the relaxed atmosphere and the few policemen in Lhasa. All that I have seen were Tibetans. Not the Han-Chinese. The atmosphere was remarkably peaceful and gave a picture of general well living. There was no oppressed feeling like I had seen so many times in the Soviet Union and its satellites before all that non-human system collapsed. People in Lhasa where friendly and wanted to speak to me, mostly without success since I do not speak Chinese nor Tibetan but up and then somebody could speak some words in English. Their wish for contact was just out of normal curiosity towards the foreigners.

   銆�銆�I had heard that the religious life should been oppressed but it was flowering! I had also heard that so many Han Chinese where moved in that the Tibetans where now very few in Lhasa. I did however see much more Tibetans there. May be that the Han Chinese where hiding?

   銆�銆�The western medias announced that China had cut all information and that articles about the riots could not be sent out! I got mad about all the apparently incorrect information and wrote this article and two other similar ones although I am not a journalist but just because I could not stand all the bad things about China that was told. I sent them by e-mail without problems and they arrived well but two newspapers did neither respond neither publish what I had written. The third answered and wanted a shorter version that was published many days later as a normal "readers voice". What Dalai Lama had said was largely published every day together with a real anti-China propaganda. What I had written was apparently too China friendly for the "free press".
   

9. At 09:51 AM on 08 Apr 2008, Jon Hawley wrote:

   I lived in China last year for just under a year, i was teaching English in the North East and then i travelled around for 4months around numerous parts of China ending up in the commerical bomb shell of Hong Kong which is far from what i saw around mainland China.
   Place to place varied but there was places that i believed were worse off than others, but to my amazment the Chinese people seemed to enjoy thier daily lives. Even those there standard of living is way below what i was used to.
   I was suprised as the teachers only got 2 weeks off a year i am not sure if that is for every occupation.
   The elderly are treated with the upmost respect and the children are loved so much by thier families. This is one thing that i believe we lack in this country, the respect that people deserve.
   I was treated with respect and the Chinese people were friendly and helpful, i would not hesitate for one momnet to go back over to that different but lovely country.

10. At 11:59 AM on 08 Apr 2008, Amy Dickson wrote:

    Hi, Not sure if it helps, but I live in Hong Kong, we moved here in January. Technically part of China, but possibly different to the mainland - and both inevitable a million miles away from the UK!

    We are both working in this city of 14 million elbows - most of which have been jabbed into my ribs on the MTR at some point. The work ethic here is stronger than in the UK, and individuals are very money orientated, although not surprising when you consider that rents have increased by approx 40% in two years! Office life is strange, and can be quite lonely, as much of the office banter in conducted in Cantonese or Mandarin, so you just have to hope that you work close to a Westerner! The 12 days annual holiday is also a bit of a shocker!

    Children get the MTR home from school safely, and there does not appear to be the yob culture that now dominates many parts of the UK, making people nervous to walk past groups of teenagers. The elderly seem better looked after and more mobile than some you see on public transport in the UK, and you often see elderly groups of people practising tai chi in open spaces in the mornings, which is widely reputed to increase longevity and mobility. Families seem to eat out together in large groups on a regular basis too.

    Hong Kong is a city that is constantly changing, and as such maybe the kids will start shouting abuse and tagging train windows, but somehow I doubt it - they appear to all have strong moral compasses.

    Amy

11. At 12:14 PM on 08 Apr 2008, wrote:

    This is my sixth year of teaching English in China and the first that the 大象传媒 website has been fully functional. Whether that lasts after the Olympics, we'll see.

    I started life in China in a satellite town just outside Beijing before moving to a small town in southern Jiangsu Province for one year, and then Fuzhou in Fujian province for another. I'm now in Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan Province.

    During recent events in Tibet, life continued here almost as normal, although there were a few signs that something was up such as an increased police presence in Tianfu Square in the centre of the city now and then. As for the Tibetans in Chengdu, they could still be seen wandering around in their national costumes. No one seemed at all bothered and I didn't see any Han Chinese making a fuss. The one incident in Chengdu about which I heard seems to have been blown out of all proportion and doesn't seem to have been directly related to the protests in Tibet.

    Life in China is lived at a fairly sedate pace for the most part. No one, apart from motorists, ever seems in much of a hurry to get anywhere, and Chinese pedestrians can often seem frustratingly slow.

    Life is also inexpensive, and its possible to live inexpensively if you so wish. Expats who are paid foreign salaries are stunningly well off, and although I fall far short of a decent wage by UK standards, I'm still classified as rich in Chengdu (and the rest of the country). Although the cost of living has been rising recently, it's not having any serious effect on me personally. Most foreigners are less exercised by such issues because our higher-than-average incomes cushion us.

    In China, much life occurs in public. I've seen migrant workers beating each other on several occasions while everyone else watched. If there's an accident or incident or anything out of the ordinary, there's usually a crowd of onlookers. But emotions are muted, and when the dam bursts, the reaction can often be extreme because people tend to be emotionally all or nothing.

    There are occasions when actions which would result in violence in the West attract no reaction at all. A good example is Beijing buses during the rush hour. Often a mob of people will charge towards the door of the bus, squeezing onto the vehicle like water through a high pressure nozzle. But once they're on and sit down, there are no consequences from the jostling.

    In other cases, the level of public intrusion in the private sphere would seem unacceptable to Westerners. Consulting a doctor in a hospital often means having to explain your symptoms in front of all the other patients who will then offer advice on how to treat the condition.

    The government for most of the country is remote, much as it always has been. Although the leadership may desire to uphold national laws, it's what goes on at local level which really counts for people and where guanxi (connections) are important. That's where abuse can often happen because someone has been unfortunate enough to cross swords with someone whose connections reach higher up the political foodchain.

    Corruption is really part of the political culture. It's the means by which things get done, and also the means by which the system gets abused. It's worth reading the classic novels The Three Kingdoms and, more particularly, Outlaws of the Marsh (aka The Water Margin). In the latter, those fighting corruption are often corrupters themselves, but there's no irony in that. In other words, this is how things have been done for centuries.

    As for censorship (and here I'll focus on the Internet), it can be frustrating not because I have any interest in those issues which get the government hot under the collar, but because of the concomitant irritations that result. blogspot, for example, has been blocked and unblocked so many times that it's probably punch drunk. At the moment, it's allegedly unblocked. Yet strangely, it's still possible to post entries even if you can't see them. Often the policing of the Internet is rather contrary. Proxy services can still be accessed freely (although recently even the German-run was getting nobbled). The main page of The Guardian got blocked during the troubles in Tibet, but stories were readily accessible via RSS feeds. I was able to read news about Tibet via Italian newspapers.

    I often feel that Internet censorship is a bigger nuisance for foreigners than the Chinese themselves. The external assumption seems to be that the Chinese want an uncensored Internet when recent research reported on revealed that the Chinese seem to approve of government controls.

    Many of the children I've taught here describe family life thus: their mothers raise them while their fathers work, smoke and sleep. I remember once seeing a little girl who was very excited to see her dad. He ignored her. One of my pupils saw his parents about once every three months, which almost certainly accounted for his behaviour in class. I've had the sense that quite a few of the pupils I've had to deal with have been sent away to school so that they're someone else's problem.

    In spite of the Cultural Revolution, there still seems to be a certain amount of in-grained respect for the elderly. It's not unusual for aged parents to live with their children, although how the One-Child Policy might affect this sort of arrangement is another matter. A rather decrepit-looking colleague of mine (a foreigner) was often offered seats on buses. I occasionally got into mock fights with old people on the Beijing Metro who would refuse to take a seat when I offered it to them.

    You often see old people out on the streets sitting chatting, playing Chinese chess or playing mah jong. In the bitterly cold winter evenings in Beijing, I used to see them in one local park dancing together. Here in Chengdu, I've often been helped by old people to fix problems with my bike, although I don't really need such assistance.

    One thing about life in China is that it's often ironic. Porn sites might be censored, but hardcore porn is readily available on DVD. The government might occasionally crack down on pirated DVDs, but it never lasts. Good thing, too. Life would be too dull here with, at best, limited numbers of Western films and telly programmes.

    The police must do something, but I'm often not certain what. When the lights at a local intersection went out, the police who like to sit around chatting on the corner did, well, nothing. When a squad of policemen in Fuzhou arrived to stop people selling vegetables on the street one day, they sounded their siren. The vegetable sellers packed up and made off at no great speed. The police got out of their vehicle, formed up in two rows, and pursued the miscreants 鈥� at no great speed. I saw something similar in Beijing one evening with the police being decent enough to warn the chuan (barbecue) sellers of their approach. The latter scurried inside to re-emerge once the police had passed through.

    I think that China is viewed in the West through a somewhat distorted lens. I'm not going to pretend that this is a paradise (it's not), but it's susceptible to stereotyping (as, I suppose any country is) by those who have no experience of life here. As a foreigner, my experience is hardly the same as that of the Chinese themselves and my cultural values and beliefs remain different from theirs. But if you do come here, you have to adapt to it because it's not about to adapt to you.

12. At 02:37 PM on 08 Apr 2008, Robert wrote:

    I have been living in Zhejiang province for nearly 6 years and the current events are doubly significant to me as I will actually be carrying the flame when it comes to my city in May. I'm very happy to live and work here, and feel an instinct to defend China against some of what I feel is an undercurrent of hangover anti-communist propaganda in the western media. Having said that the Chinese state media's coverage of recent events has been laughable at times. I have a disaste for hypocrisy, double standards and unfair reporting of any kind. For example, the massively hyped 'flame of shame' protests in London on Apr 6th were miniscule compared to many of the huge anti-war demos of the last five years which were often totally ignored by the bbc and mainstream media. Similarly biased news journalism is no more evident than in Israel where anyone with time on their hands can tally up the column inches and airtime given to Isreali and Palestinian victims of atrocities respectively. It's difficult for me to know where to stand when I don't know the truth, but I do know I love the people of this country.

13. At 03:45 PM on 08 Apr 2008, X Yang wrote:

    Hi Victoria,

    I guess you are disappointed with all the comments from the ex-pats and must be wondering if they are paid by the Chinese government.

    As a Chinese-British living in this country for long, I had a lot of respects to 大象传媒 and other western media but they have all gone with recent biased reports about China and Chinese people including Tibet's events.

    It is painful to see those weird Chinese who are about to stand on the same height on the earth with the superior Westerners, isn't it? It is even more painful to realise it is going to happen soon and enevitably, isn't it?

    I feel the pain.

14. At 07:50 PM on 08 Apr 2008, victoria wrote:

    Hi all

    Thanks so much, this is really fascinating stuff. We're talking to some of you on the programme tomorrow (wed) - hope more of you will tune in..

    Kind regards

    Victoria

15. At 10:18 AM on 09 Apr 2008, John Scott wrote:

    I lived in Taiwan for 5 years (and still return frequently to do academic research on that country). Being a close neighbour of China's - and claimed by that country - I've had the chance to see at close quarters how people in China think and how that country behaves.

    I agree that the Tibet protests will probably not change anything in China in the short term - China has such a managed news environment, a growing hypernationalism and a sense of being "done down" in the world. But if it encourages people in the rest of the world to be vigilant about China's rise then it has advantages as far as I am concerned.

    China has much to learn about it's image and how to manage that. It is the Chinese that politicised the Olympics and they wanted to co-opt the western world into that project. Had the relay gone well how do you think they would have used it domestically?

    It's important neither to demonise not idolise China, but understanding it takes work and many of the models we have for relating don't work with China.

16. At 11:45 AM on 09 Apr 2008, Lynda Cheetham wrote:

    I'm so sick of all this continued China bashing, whether it is about toys, toothpaste, food or the Olympics.
    I've been here for two years and love it. It's dynamic and I feel envigorated every day. I'm infected with their enthusiasm about events in their country.
    The people I come into contact with on a daily basis, on the bus, in the market, etc. are helpful, hospitable and kind. In the evenings I never feel threatened. I can walk home or get the bus.
    I've always had access to 大象传媒 and the internet and share all news items with my students which are discussed freely and meaningfully.
    I'm a middle-aged woman teaching at a university in Hunan.
    Hunan is the province which was declared a disaster area during unusual winter storms in February.The Govenment were fantastic in solving the problems, getting the utilities back on stream, distributing food and clothing. Etc.
    Just wanted to add my bit, have to fly.
    Lynda

17. At 03:17 PM on 09 Apr 2008, frank_zico wrote:

    vicky derbyshire is a bimbo making a living off lower middle class versions of jeremy kyle guests,her callers are laughable, i suggest she toes the bbc line of impartiality like previous months,just lately her gossipy over the fence style opinions are becomming quite prominent, the covers blown,boltons misplaced her fish wife the old trouts comming home, p45 pending

    yours regretfully
    

    Frank Zico

18. At 03:39 PM on 09 Apr 2008, Nicola MacConnell wrote:

    Hey all,

    I'm an expat living in China with my husband. We've been here in Shaanxi since 2006 and we are really happy here.

    Our daily lives are great - we work 10-12 hours a week and earn quite a lot of money by local standards, though we are not the highest paid people we know. To give you an idea, we are paid 4000RMB each month. Other expats who live in the more westernised east of China will say this isn't much but actually it is much more than enough. A bottle of water costs 0.5RMB - 1RMB. A bowl of noodles for lunch costs 2.5RMB. A taxi to anywhere in our town costs 5RMB.

    We work for a government vocational college and we have a lot of time to pursue our own interests and basically live normally. Today my husband worked from 8am - 10am and I worked from 4pm - 6pm. We ate with our students in the student canteen for lunch, then went to a local restaurant for dinner. In our spare time we study Chinese and we pursue our own interests such as cross-stitch, ping-pong, basketball etc.

    Our daily lives are very rarely touched by the Chinese government. We registered with the local Police station when we first arrived, but since then we haven't been required to or felt any need to consult any government bodies.

    It's funny that you should mention children and the elderly in the same breath, as in China they are rarely seen apart. Everywhere we go we see the wonderful sight of very elderly men and women wandering along the street, round the square, around the compound with their toddler grandchildren. Elderly people in China seem extremely active to us. As I walk to work in the morning I feel a little embarrassed as groups of elderly people are performing Tai Qi Gong or having extremely heated ping-pong tournaments. We frequently see 70+ year olds hanging off monkey bars and performing ballet-style movements involving a static bar as they exercise to keep themselves limber.

    Children are very curious about us and most of them are far from shy. They run after us, trying out their English, and they are delighted to recieve a handshake and to be told in Chinese that their English sounds good.

    Chinese teenagers are a far cry from their British counterparts. As a teacher in Britain, my husband has seen both sides of the coin and can't believe the difference. Our students are aged 18 - 22 and they are very disciplined, they understand that the opportunity they have been given is one which can change the course of their life if they use it well. They strive to bring honour to their family and their school, and their daily choices and lives reflect this. They don't go out drinking, they don't go to clubs or parties, they get up an hour before they need to so that they can do extra study. They spend two hours every night in their common rooms reviewing their lessons as a group. I described my experience of university in Britain, partying, drinking, being too hungover on occasion to go to 9am lectures. They were appalled.

    The Olympic flame will be coming to our town in July, we'll be there cheering it on - maybe you'll see me in my Chinese flag dress ... :)
    

19. At 04:18 PM on 09 Apr 2008, Barry wrote:

    As a Brit currently now living in UK, but having lived in Germany, USA and spent many years traveling around the world, I have visited China many times; mainly Shanghai but last summer I visited Beijing and Wuhan, with one of my closest friends - who is a Chinese National. The warmth and generosity of the people I met, echoes the other comments made.

    OK, sometimes the 大象传媒 web site wasn't accessible but this is by no mean symptomatic of the views of the Chinese people, who open their arms to welcome the West as it brings prosperity and investment to a country that has to support a billion people, many who are well below a poverty line clearly not understood by the West.

    China has invested heavily in Tibet and will continue to do so despite the voices of a few radicals that the west all-too-easily wants to jump into bed with, to use as a stick to beat the Chinese government.

    Dont beleive all you read in the Western media...
    B.

20. At 06:36 PM on 09 Apr 2008, Mr and Mrs Au-Yang wrote:

    I shall thank Nicola MacConnell's comments on her living in China, which recalled me of my lives in high school and
    undergraduate study. I was born and brought up in a southern city of P.R. China. My husband and I came to study in UK 5 years ago to pursuit our Ph.D degrees.

    I have to say, the students in China are of huge difference from those in the UK. I was one of them and we study
    really hard in high school: normally 7am to 10pm, with most weekends. The main reason is that with a large 1.3bn
    population, the competition among chinese students is fierce: you must be outstanding in academia among the excellent
    peers, to earn a good place in reputable university. Another reason is from the parents. Most of Chinese young persons born
    after 1980 are the only child in their families. Chinese parents love them so much and show every support, but, note here, not
    indulgence. Parents normally keep good control with the children, with help of the school. Therefore, Chinese students are very disciplined,
    humble and motivated in academia.

    However, do not mistake us as the slaves of the exams, as we are actually not. In my high school years, we had P.E. class everyday and we
    played all kinds of sports, especailly team sports. The teamwork spirits is another important thing in the Chinese education. In Chinese high school, a team
    is normally a class. We have class head teacher, class monitor (student) and different representatives such as for sports and maths. Students work hard
    to earn the excellence for the class in academia and in all aspects. My husband and I were classmates, and we were still so proud of our class to be granted
    the champion of the sports games held in the whole school.

    Going to pubs and getting drunk merely happened in my school age, let alone the teenager sex and drug problems.

    In the Chinese universities, most students are very motivated. They long for a good job after graduation, or pursuing postgraduate studies in China or abroad. Most Chinese
    young persons love the opportunities to study abroad, so as to boarden their horisons on both academia and general knowledge. Therefore we study very hard in English.
    We see English not just a tool for communication, but also a way to increase our competiveness in the global markets. Again, the driven and motivation ask for more time and
    attention, that's why most Chinese students would rather stay in library or dorm to review course work, rather than going-out in the english way.

    Every year, there are hundreds of Chinese students coming to England to pursuing the postgraduate level study. Among the Chiense Ph.D students, most of them are awarded scholarship as rewards of
    their excellence in academia. The scholarships are partly from the Chinese government, and a larger part come from UK universities or international organisation, through international level selection
    and competition. My husband and I are luckily to be the UK scholarship awardees. In our years abroad, our parents, our education in the past always tell us to be humble, down to earth, and friendly and show respects to
    all the nations, which I believe are good characteristics. Chinese students work hard and make contrubitions in reasearch. I would say my own experience is an example. I successfully passed my Ph.D viva two months ago and
    the result is at the best band--award without any correction. My examiners and supervisors congratulated me wholeheartedly, because that is a great result which is not easily awarded even to the local students.

    I am sad to see the anti-China protest in the London torch relay, and more ever, I am very angry at the 大象传媒 reports with the political bias. Under 大象传媒 filming, there was large amount of free-tibet. However,
    just outside 大象传媒's camera, there were hundreds and thousands of Chinese waving the national flags, singing national anthem, to show the support of the Chinese government
    and the Beijing Olympic. But, these red flags were ultimately ignored by 大象传媒; merely could be seen on TV and never metioned by the TV presenter. If media is not
    political-biased, why not film both sides and let the public know the whole story? Plus, the TV presenter kept asking each torch bearer whether he or she will condone China, and saying Gordon Brown AVOIDED touching the torch.
    This tone of questioning and reporting sounds a strong political bias and it is not difficult to figure out what direction 大象传媒 is leading the public to.

    As to the free-tibet protestors, I actually see more Non-Tibetan faces than the Tibetans. I gradually doubt the knowledge behide their shouts of "free tibet". How many of them are equipped with intense knowledge of Tibet's history,
    culture and politics? How many of them have been to Tibet in person? Do not take this " free tibet" slogan as a fashionable thing to do. How many of them know how much Chinese government invest in Tibet's development every year
    without asking any tax from the tibetans? How many of them know the Dalai Mala as early as in the Ming dynasty acknowledged Tibet was part of China? How many of them know Dalai lama is not the name of that person but is a system? How
    many of them know that the current Dalai Lama met Chairman Mao in 1950s to insist Tibet was part of China, further allowed the Chinese army as the only force to stay in Tibet? If people don't know anything, it is not the fault, but please keep quiet.
    If the protestors do know anything, show me references. Note that, references in history, not from TV or other person's mouth. Because I am not a celebrity. I am just a scientist.

21. At 09:39 PM on 10 Apr 2008, Krystal Ouyang wrote:

    First, I want to thank all the expats for writing about China. I left China when I was 12 and have been living in England and Canada for 11 years. I'm very disappointed with the Western media with the Tibetan issue. The western media tend to focus on the negatives. First they show Nepalese and Indian police as Chinese police. And when thousands of us are out there supporting China, supporting the Olympic games, we have little coverage. And some TV channels and websites even show pictures of supporters as protesters.

    I'm very saddened about what has happened - the riots in China, and protesters disrupting the Olympic Torch Relay. A lot of people who don't know the history about Tibet, whom have never been to China are jumping on this anti-Chinese bandwagon.

    If Tibetans don't have religious freedom, why is there still so many temples and monks in Tibet? And the Chinese government is actually re-buidling some temples. In the old Tibet, more than 90 percent of people were slaves, now the government provides them with free medical services, and built schools and roads. I also want to say that we love Tibet, I plan to travel to Tibet within next year. And I've heard some of my friends say they want to volunteer to teach in Tibetan schools in the future. We care more about Tibet than a lot of those protesters.

    If people still feel the need to protest for the Tibetans, please at least be civil, do not try to snatch the torch away from the runners, they deserve to have respect and safety.

22. At 02:28 PM on 11 Apr 2008, wrote:

    This is a bit dated but I am a Canadian/Australian who lived in China from August 2004 - August 2005. I taugh high school students english at Tonghua #1 High School in Jilin Province. I earned 4,500 RMB per month + apartment & utiltiies & cable TV + 300 RMB food allowance per month. The average annual salary around that time was about 7,000 RMB per YEAR. Chinese teachers in the school earned between 600-2,500 RMB per month. I was arrested for taking photographs of a labour dispute. I was taken to police station for 3 hrs questioning and signed and fingerprinted documents in Chinese without English translation so I would be released. (Which I did, and was released) My students advised me the protest was related to workers in a wine factory afraid they would loose their jobs after a company from South of China had purchased it. I found Chinese people very friendly and welcoming. I loved the variety of found in each city. The children seemed to be treated quite strictly - primary school students study very hard, many were being forced into constant musical practice with the hope their child would be the next great prodigy. In general parents had a strong focus on academic study and ensuring at all costs their child got into university. In the high school wealthy parents paid teachers 'under the table' to ensure their children sat in the front of the class, or were alloweod to progress to next level after failing exams. Elderly people were treated with a lot of respect, in the area I lived nursing homes were not common and elderly were being taken care of within the family. Although I believe larger cities have a problem with aging population, but I mainly avoided large ci ties so can't really confirm that.

23. At 05:09 PM on 11 Apr 2008, Sarah wrote:

    Victoria,
    I am first generation British Born Chinese, and had the opportunity to live and work in China (Shanghai) for 6 months in 2001. I was on an income equivalent to around 拢200 per month, with the company paying for my accommodation.

    It may sound strange, but for me, it was really refreshing to "blend in" with the crowd, with noone giving me a second glance. I was lucky to be able to make friends with expats of many nationalities, and locals alike, so feel that I managed to experience both sides of life in China. I made friends with another British-Born Chinese who was teaching in the province of Xuzhou, and had the opportunity to visit my family in Guangdong province. I'd say neither were typical "Expat" experiences.

    At first I found it difficult - the Chinese way to deal with something unfamiliar is often to laugh or make fun of it - and my colleagues found it strange that someone who looked Chinese was so inept with Mandarin - but as I learned the dialiect (and when they saw me chatting with other colleagues in Cantonese), they realised I wasn't so strange after all and really made me feel accepted.

    I felt very safe there, even though I was on my own. It didn't bother me to walk through the streets on my own at night, and I happily took public transport across China (although the buses can be very unreliable). However, my colleagues worried about me when I had to collect a friend at the rail station at night, and insisted on ordering a taxi for me,

    It was also one of the great eating experiences of my life, and I would dearly love to return for a longer period soon. Despite the industrialisation, there are still swathes of amazing scenery to be admired and in awe of.

    Family is incredibly ingrained into Chinese culture, and I could see this with my local friends, many of whom lived with parents and grandparents in the same house - but this was the case for us too, growing up in the UK.

    China isn't an idyll, and there are many things wrong with the administration, but the Chinese friends that I made, and the family whom I got to know better, are not living in fear, and do not feel oppressed (comments which I have seen on the Have Your Say forum). Fair enough, they are not Tibetan, but they are normal Chinese people from normal walks of life, Some wish to leave the country, others are perfectly happy with their lot.

    I remember when the decision to hold the Olympics in Beijing was announced - myself and my friends were so excited, we ran around the bar we were in, singing the Chinese national anthem. I hope that the Olympics doesn't turn into a progaganda exercise (on both sides), as I know many ordinary Chinese are excited and proud to be showcasing China to the world.
    

24. At 04:31 PM on 15 Apr 2008, benzhaoyong wrote:

    i am Chinese, but i would like to say something here, not trying to persuade anybody, but just want to tell people in UK, do some research on the society system before in TIbet, while DALAI LAMA was in control, how Tibetans living. U will find out the dark side under the beautiful name of Budism such as peeling off human skin alive;
    sacrificing human beings leaver, lungs, heart...
    These things might not processed by Dalai lama, but it really happened when he was in controll of Tibet. I just want those who concerns about TIbet to know that, Tibetan budism is just an illusion. DO some research on that first before u say " free tibet", by the way, i dont mind tibet is in China or what, cause i dont want Chinese government spend any more money there. And i know that, Tibetans will live a great life in independent TIbet without food, electricity ,petrol .