´óÏó´«Ã½

rounded corners top


Adebayor's started so well for Man City
5 live
Sat 05 September 15:00 Scotland v Macedonia
5 live sports extra
Fri 25 Sep, 10.55
Formula 1
1st Practice - Singapore
rounded corners bottom
« Previous | Main | Next »

Do we need the Olympic Torch Relay?

Victoria Derbyshire | 08:25 UK time, Monday, 7 April 2008

A PR embarrassment, sinister and slapstick, a triumph for democracy - there are various descriptions of the olympic torch relay across London. You could barely see the face of those carrying the torch - obscured by a dozen chinese security guards in blue and white, then met police officers in yellow then teams of officers on bikes.

So what did you make of it? Two thousand Met Police were on duty costing one million pounds - despite that, they did seem stretched at times. Some complained the police were heavy handed - ordering protestors to remove their Free Tibet T-shirts. But at least the protests were allowed to take place. Imagine the scenes when the torch journeys through Tibet in June. So why do we need this torch relay? It was something started by Hitler in 1936. Would it be the end of the world if it was scrapped?


Comments

  1. At 08:53 AM on 07 Apr 2008, Mike Cooke wrote:

    Victoria,

    What I felt yesterday was anger. Not anger of the protesters but of the athletes who kept on and on about "what the Olympic torch stands for!"

    Many year ago it may have stood for something but recent history suggests that today it stands for corruption, kick-backs, drug use, cheating, etc.
    The Olympic ideal is dead.

    Mike Cooke
    Chesterton staffs.

  2. At 09:44 AM on 07 Apr 2008, Raji wrote:

    The police might have behaved differently if Muslims had been protesting. Not only would they have let them got hold of the torch but extinguish it as well and no arrests made

  3. At 09:51 AM on 07 Apr 2008, Pete wrote:

    Victoria,

    My mother in law retired last week.

    She is 60, has poor mobility and no savings. Her ridiculously small NHS pension is being taxed at 20%, so that Gordon Brown can have a tax cut!!

    This joke of a man is even worse than Tony "War Monger" Blair, and thats saying something!!

    How are they getting away with such dreadful governance - We need a General Strike!!

    Pete
    Milton Keynes

  4. At 10:08 AM on 07 Apr 2008, CLIVE MILLER wrote:

    I've visited China twice over the last twenty years I've also travelled in Tibet.

    Tibetan's are not Chinese they speak a different language they don't look Chinese and they have their own unique culture they do not want to be ruled and tortured by the Chinese occupying forces, they are an endangered species!

    I went to London yesterday to support the Tibetan people in their fight for freedom because I felt I owed it to all the Tibetan people I've met and spoken with over the last few years.

    The Police obviously had their instructions I saw Chinese students mixing with the Free Tibetan protesters spitting and snatching Tibetan flags in full view of the police, on one occasion I asked why the Chinese students were allowed to mix with us and the Officer simply shrugged her shoulders and said 'we cant touch them'.

    I had the opportunity to speak with some Chinese people as we all moved around London it was virtually impossible to have a reasoned conversation with these so called educated Chinese, 'why don't you get out of Scotland'? was a constant retort and one student asked me 'when we were going to get out of Middlesboro? Mini skirted Chinese girls wearing stiletto's were lining up to have their photographs taken with the police and the Free Tibet protestors as a back drop, they just haven't got a clue!

    It was the same story outside the British museum as the pro Chinese lined our path as we marched by more spitting and lunging in to grab Tibetan flags I saw one elderly Tibet lady knocked to the ground by a Chinese student in an attempt to get her flag, the police did nothing. Some of the Chinese students were behaving like the Hitler youth and the similarities are there for all to see.

    The free world should be ashamed the situation in Tibet as been allowed to fester for fifty years and will more than likely continue for another fifty years as we bow to the might of China. No one likes a bully and China is the biggest bully on the planet, China verses Tibet is like putting Mike Tyson in the ring with a two year old no one would accept that so why do we allow the Chinese to bully Tibet?

    My heart sank yesterday as I witnessed some of my heroes carrying the torch I'm proud to be British but I wasn't yesterday.


    Regards

    Clive Miller

  5. At 11:42 PM on 07 Apr 2008, wrote:

    I think our goverment will be pleased with what has happened as it shows both the spirit of the olympics but the pressure on China too.
    I actually think the west gave the games to China as a wake up call to say either get democratised or the world will see what a country you are and your hopes of progress will be severly dealt a huge blow.
    China knows it has to lift it's internet ban for instance and the world will be watching.
    I think giving the games to China was a shrewd move to advance the country or show it up.

  6. At 09:01 AM on 08 Apr 2008, Fred wrote:

    Has Clive Miller tried to speak to any Aborgine in Australia? Do they have any rights? Do they have any country? Do they have a life even? Or how about the Mohawks in Canada? Or the Sioux in the uSA? or the Maori in New Zealand?
    How about the Kurds? Why do 25 million Kurds (much more than Tibetans) do not own their own country but have to be Turk or Syrian or Iraqi or Iranian? How about the Chechens? Or the Palestinians?
    Does any one dare to demosntrate on their behalf like hey do against China?

  7. At 04:09 PM on 09 Apr 2008, Yong wrote:

    Hi Victoria,

    I am a PhD student in the UK, and I have been living here since 2003. Prior to that, I was living in Guangzhou, China, for 23 years.

    I am glad that there is a space for some of us heart-breaking Chinese to justify some of the misunderstandings.

    I am quite disappointing about CLIVE MILLER's comment, as he failed to reveal a true story of What happened in Tibet with solid facts. When "Free something" becomes a fashionable slogan, poeple jump on the bandwagon and start embarrassing China because it is a perfect time to do so, given the fact that 2008 Olympic games is to be held in Beijing with billions eyes watching on us.

    Try to think a little bit deeper, and ask yourself a question? Who will benefit the most when Tibet is separated from China? It's Dalai Lama and his monks, who did nothing to contribute to the development of Tibet since 1950.

    We welcome fair and justice comments, but no those libels. Many British are fooled by the false report from the TV broadcast and believed that they saw the truth of Tibet. People should have a common sense to investigate before reaching a biased conclusion.

  8. At 01:32 AM on 10 Apr 2008, DaveH wrote:

    Clive Millar is quite right - China invaded Tibet in an offensive attack contrary to international law (notably the 1928 Treaty, which made offensive war illegal and under which the Nazis were tried at Nuremburg - ironic that they invented the whole torch ceremony). The argument that the DL didn't do much between 1950 and the invasion of 1958 is absurd - China would be better off without its own oppressive one party state, secret police and now (per Seb Coe) blue-suited thugs.

    Shame on world leaders, who will not criticise China when so keen to criticie other smaller nations. Shame on the rest of us for buying anything Chinese - I do however try my best to avoid buying their output, but sometimes there is no alternative.

  9. At 08:21 AM on 10 Apr 2008, Ang Neil wrote:

    TIBET

    What a WHITE WASH!

    Before 1949 there was not a single chinese in TIBET - until Mousy Tung came running from Chiang Kai Seik for shelter and succour.

    Chinese do not even understand Tibetan language!

    Japan could claim many parts of China that they did ACTUALLY belong to them and even their dynasties come from China too! If here's ATTROCITIES and MASSACRES in TIBET by the CHINESE then why should JAPAN HAVE to APOLLOGISE to the Chinese for the past rule over CHINA - it was just a lot of VITRIOLIC or VENOMOUS blood that CHINA has that makes them do all these things with calculated reptilian intent! They HAVE been snaking in and out of various BORDER countries and claiming
    wherever they snake in and out their troops at any opportunity into the bordering countries at the borders (Bhutan, Sikkim, Akshai Chin, ... Nepal, Indian territory of Nicobar Islands where CHINA doesn't even have a coast line but just came in and took over by force - just as will be done in Darfur) any way SNAKING IN AND OUT and claiming as THEIR TERRITORY just like TIBET - a huge territory taken by the COILS of Mousy Tung.

    All CHINESE who participate (Ministers, Poiticians, people, soldiers) and even carry out orders of their participating leaders, have even set their FOOT into TIBET - land of GODS - their ANCESTORS, FAMILIES and their PROGENY are doomed for a Thousand, Thousand years by the curses of the holy people of Tibet ... NEVER to be FORGIVEN!!! They will suffer all kinds of misfortunes, sickenesses, pests and pestilence and in the end they all will be given the final place in HELL never to rest again!!


    Land of Tibet was open space for all of India - Hindu Pilgrims and hermits, and Tibetans shared it without a SINGLE thought of possesion of these lands OPENLY for Thousands of years! It was NEVR CHINESE so there was never a time for them to worry at the highest or lowest levels - PURE CIVILIZATOPN - Chinese Borders were at the edge of China way away from the TIBETAN PLATEAU - away from the Plateu and the feet of the PLATEAU where the BORDERS of TIBET and CHINA were.

    No body had EVER needed Visas for Thousands of years to go to the Holy Hindu places in Tibet (Mt. Kailash, Meru, etc.) ... and suddenly here comes MOUSY TUNG and after CHINA crossed their borders and GRABBED by force ALL of TIBET ... they (trying to TAKE OVER Tibet CHINA) do not allow any Hindus or Indians or any HUMANS for that matter, into the INVADED and OCCUPIED TIBET - WITHOUT A VISA (if they give you one!). IT WAS NEVER NEVER NEVER China's - Mousy Tung like a snake reared up and bit the the VERY hand that fed HIM and HIS army !!! WHAT KIND OF PROOF DOES THE WORLD NEED THAT IT WAS NEVER CHINESE?

    If anything consider Indian Hindus who have worshipped for THOUSANDS OF YEARS Lord Shiva and AND HIS ABODE OF Kailash Mountain the HOLLIEST Abode of Lord Shiva - THE HOLLIEST LAKE IN INDIAN ETHOS AND HINDU CULTURE - MAAN SAROVAR - ALL which is in TIBET! YES . BUT NOTTTTTTTTT IN CHINAAAA!!! NEVER WAS !!! HOW CAN IT SUDDENLY TURN INTO UNHOLY CHINA! WHY DO PEOPLE CALL TIBET CHINA IN THE FIRST PLACE ?!!!

    Holliest place for Hindus since beginning of time IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE not just EARTH - for thousands of years has been Mount Kailash in Ladakh, Tibet -Hindu hermits have been doing their hermitage accross Tibet shared with local TIBETANS for THOUSANDS OF YEARS - how come Chinese suddenly, come 1949, invades and takes over TIBET? Boggles the mind - NO ACTUALLY it doesn't boggle the mind! egemony is in their blood and their CURSE! In history it used to be mentioned - as Tibet, India in all talks and reference. WE COULD CALL CHINA AS JAPAN FOR THAT MATTER!

    Being a HOLLY LAND TIBETANS or Indians never thought of creating an ARMY for protecting TIBET from CHINA!. WHAT A FAILURE OF DUTY TO LORD SHIVA AND FORESIGHT!

    TIBET had ZERO HINDRANCE open land sharing and total transparent sacred co-sharing of this land for HINDUS for thousands of years !!! TIBET as a Country did this and HINDUS and INDIANS never encroached on this pact by LAND GRAB HEGEMONY or demands like CHINA (((repeated hegemonies all along the Chinese Borders and ONGOING!!!))) (forget Darfur-SUDAN, Kazhakstan, Zambia, CONGO ...).

    1949 Suddenly appears Mousy Tung and his army running scared from Chiang Kia Sheik in 1949. They are given food, shelter and succour, by TIBETAN Monks ... and what does he do in repayment? His Eyes get GREEDY for this "Shangrilla" land!!!

    Now today the Cultural Revolution "new born" Children running the Chinese Government are pulling the wool over the "new generation" Chinese Kids who are now grown up all over China ... TOTALLY INDOCTRINATED and NOT KNOWING ANY TRUE HISTORY of the world and CHINESE adventures along the borders being carried out by their leaders ... combine that with the mass slauhter of the post MAO INTELLECTUALS - and the REST? rememeber they were sent to the paddy fields until they could recant by heart the "Little Red Book"???!!!

    Well when you ask an ordinary chinese and his thoughts ... he is regurgitating half truths he has come to understand so that he will support the Children In Power today to carry on Hegemonizing India (Aksai Chin, Kashmir, Sikkim, Assam, Mizzoram, ... Bay of Bengal Islands), Nepal, Tibet, Bhutan, Mizzoram, Sikkim, Ladakh, Kazhak, Uzbek, Mongolia, Japan, ...

    So WHAT are we talking about here ? Let the Invaded People Accept subservience to China and CHINA will forgive them? Oh such kindness as to allow them to practice their culture?

    Instead why not honor historical truths and vacate TIBET of all Chinese? Why not give Indians of Hindu faith back their freedom to have unfettered access to their HOLLIEST of lands enjoyed for THOUSANDS of years when it was TIBETAN and NOT Mousy Tiungs GREEDY Land Grabbed HEGEMONY of COUNTRY of TIBET?

    TIBETANS and HINDUS (i.e. INDIA) co shared all these SACRED Hindu lands and mountains.

    All that is happening is this is bringing thousands of years of CURSES on all Chinese, thier Ancestors and their Children for
    puting their foot in TIBET! Even the TIBET broken up into "CHINESE" name provinces after 1949's invasion by Mousy Tung is TOTALLY still ILLEGAL OCCUPATION and "clever" DIVISIONS for future arguments and convincing the Children of China these "FAKED Histories" - and so getting their IGNORANT support for their Cultural Revolution Children in power!!!!

    Thank you for sharing your precious time.

    Ang (Neil) Kamchuk.

  10. At 08:27 AM on 10 Apr 2008, Ang Neil wrote:

    TIBET

    What a WHITE WASH!

    Before 1949 there was not a single chinese in TIBET - until Mousy Tung came running from Chiang Kai Seik for shelter and succour.

    Chinese do not even understand Tibetan language!

    Japan could claim many parts of China that they did ACTUALLY belong to them and even their dynasties come from China too! If here's ATTROCITIES and MASSACRES in TIBET by the CHINESE then why should JAPAN HAVE to APOLLOGISE to the Chinese for the past rule over CHINA - it was just a lot of VITRIOLIC or VENOMOUS blood that CHINA has that makes them do all these things with calculated reptilian intent! They HAVE been snaking in and out of various BORDER countries and claiming
    wherever they snake in and out their troops at any opportunity into the bordering countries at the borders (Bhutan, Sikkim, Akshai Chin, ... Nepal, Indian territory of Nicobar Islands where CHINA doesn't even have a coast line but just came in and took over by force - just as will be done in Darfur) any way SNAKING IN AND OUT and claiming as THEIR TERRITORY just like TIBET - a huge territory taken by the COILS of Mousy Tung.

    All CHINESE who participate (Ministers, Poiticians, people, soldiers) and even carry out orders of their participating leaders, have even set their FOOT into TIBET - land of GODS - their ANCESTORS, FAMILIES and their PROGENY are doomed for a Thousand, Thousand years by the curses of the holy people of Tibet ... NEVER to be FORGIVEN!!! They will suffer all kinds of misfortunes, sickenesses, pests and pestilence and in the end they all will be given the final place in HELL never to rest again!!


    Land of Tibet was open space for all of India - Hindu Pilgrims and hermits, and Tibetans shared it without a SINGLE thought of possesion of these lands OPENLY for Thousands of years! It was NEVR CHINESE so there was never a time for them to worry at the highest or lowest levels - PURE CIVILIZATOPN - Chinese Borders were at the edge of China way away from the TIBETAN PLATEAU - away from the Plateu and the feet of the PLATEAU where the BORDERS of TIBET and CHINA were.

    No body had EVER needed Visas for Thousands of years to go to the Holy Hindu places in Tibet (Mt. Kailash, Meru, etc.) ... and suddenly here comes MOUSY TUNG and after CHINA crossed their borders and GRABBED by force ALL of TIBET ... they (trying to TAKE OVER Tibet CHINA) do not allow any Hindus or Indians or any HUMANS for that matter, into the INVADED and OCCUPIED TIBET - WITHOUT A VISA (if they give you one!). IT WAS NEVER NEVER NEVER China's - Mousy Tung like a snake reared up and bit the the VERY hand that fed HIM and HIS army !!! WHAT KIND OF PROOF DOES THE WORLD NEED THAT IT WAS NEVER CHINESE?

    If anything consider Indian Hindus who have worshipped for THOUSANDS OF YEARS Lord Shiva and AND HIS ABODE OF Kailash Mountain the HOLLIEST Abode of Lord Shiva - THE HOLLIEST LAKE IN INDIAN ETHOS AND HINDU CULTURE - MAAN SAROVAR - ALL which is in TIBET! YES . BUT NOTTTTTTTTT IN CHINAAAA!!! NEVER WAS !!! HOW CAN IT SUDDENLY TURN INTO UNHOLY CHINA! WHY DO PEOPLE CALL TIBET CHINA IN THE FIRST PLACE ?!!!

    Holliest place for Hindus since beginning of time IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE not just EARTH - for thousands of years has been Mount Kailash in Ladakh, Tibet -Hindu hermits have been doing their hermitage accross Tibet shared with local TIBETANS for THOUSANDS OF YEARS - how come Chinese suddenly, come 1949, invades and takes over TIBET? Boggles the mind - NO ACTUALLY it doesn't boggle the mind! egemony is in their blood and their CURSE! In history it used to be mentioned - as Tibet, India in all talks and reference. WE COULD CALL CHINA AS JAPAN FOR THAT MATTER!

    Being a HOLLY LAND TIBETANS or Indians never thought of creating an ARMY for protecting TIBET from CHINA!. WHAT A FAILURE OF DUTY TO LORD SHIVA AND FORESIGHT!

    TIBET had ZERO HINDRANCE open land sharing and total transparent sacred co-sharing of this land for HINDUS for thousands of years !!! TIBET as a Country did this and HINDUS and INDIANS never encroached on this pact by LAND GRAB HEGEMONY or demands like CHINA (((repeated hegemonies all along the Chinese Borders and ONGOING!!!))) (forget Darfur-SUDAN, Kazhakstan, Zambia, CONGO ...).

    1949 Suddenly appears Mousy Tung and his army running scared from Chiang Kia Sheik in 1949. They are given food, shelter and succour, by TIBETAN Monks ... and what does he do in repayment? His Eyes get GREEDY for this "Shangrilla" land!!!

    Now today the Cultural Revolution "new born" Children running the Chinese Government are pulling the wool over the "new generation" Chinese Kids who are now grown up all over China ... TOTALLY INDOCTRINATED and NOT KNOWING ANY TRUE HISTORY of the world and CHINESE adventures along the borders being carried out by their leaders ... combine that with the mass slauhter of the post MAO INTELLECTUALS - and the REST? rememeber they were sent to the paddy fields until they could recant by heart the "Little Red Book"???!!!

    Well when you ask an ordinary chinese and his thoughts ... he is regurgitating half truths he has come to understand so that he will support the Children In Power today to carry on Hegemonizing India (Aksai Chin, Kashmir, Sikkim, Assam, Mizzoram, ... Bay of Bengal Islands), Nepal, Tibet, Bhutan, Mizzoram, Sikkim, Ladakh, Kazhak, Uzbek, Mongolia, Japan, ...

    So WHAT are we talking about here ? Let the Invaded People Accept subservience to China and CHINA will forgive them? Oh such kindness as to allow them to practice their culture?

    Instead why not honor historical truths and vacate TIBET of all Chinese? Why not give Indians of Hindu faith back their freedom to have unfettered access to their HOLLIEST of lands enjoyed for THOUSANDS of years when it was TIBETAN and NOT Mousy Tiungs GREEDY Land Grabbed HEGEMONY of COUNTRY of TIBET?

    TIBETANS and HINDUS (i.e. INDIA) co shared all these SACRED Hindu lands and mountains.

    All that is happening is this is bringing thousands of years of CURSES on all Chinese, thier Ancestors and their Children for
    puting their foot in TIBET! Even the TIBET broken up into "CHINESE" name provinces after 1949's invasion by Mousy Tung is TOTALLY still ILLEGAL OCCUPATION and "clever" DIVISIONS for future arguments and convincing the Children of China these "FAKED Histories" - and so getting their IGNORANT support for their Cultural Revolution Children in power!!!!

    Thank you for sharing your precious time.

    Ang (Neil) Kamchuk.

This post is closed to new comments.

´óÏó´«Ã½ iD

´óÏó´«Ã½ navigation

´óÏó´«Ã½ © 2014 The ´óÏó´«Ã½ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.