Adebayor's started so well for Man City
Immigration - who are the winners and losers?
Whenever a government minister is asked about high levels of immigration, this is the answer: migrants boost the economy, fill the jobs British people don't want to do, and pay taxes that benefit the exchequer; but today a report by a house of lords committee demolishes those claims - saying they found no evidence that net immigration generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population
In fact it says when it comes to winners and losers - immigrants themsevles and some employers are winners but there are plenty of losers - young british people trying to get jobs, people in low-income jobs, those who use schools, hospitals etc.
How's immigration affected you?
Hi Victoria
You rightly point out that there are 600,000 job vacancies at the moment. However, there was also 600,000 vacancies several years ago which was one of the base arguments Gordon Brown used when he signed us up to 'open borders'
1.5 million 'official' immigrants since then and no one seems sure how many unofficial yet the job vacancy number has remained the same ( as has the number of people on long term sick )
The job vacancy argument needs to be ignored unfortunately or at least addresses back to Uk longer term sick who could probably fill teh vast majority of these posts in some sort of capacity....
Can we imagine a situation where the immigrant community down their tools for one day. I wonder how the care homes, buses, car wash places, trains, fast food restaurants. I think they should then the argument is put to bed once and for all.
The reason the english wont take the jobs that the polish will is because the wages are un-realistic, you can not survive (even living in a bed-sit) on minimum wages, thats why the english will not do these jobs. Do the figures it doesnt add up, immigrants live four to a one bedroom flat, in Hereford rents have gone up and wages have come down. It makes me so angry when people call us lazy and work shy these jobs do not pay a living wage. There will be a backlash about the scale of immigration(its already begun) when people cant get doctors appiontments and cant get they kids into choosen schools, social tension. All these people
saying its not a problem are not at the coal face competing for jobs and housing.
I dont blame the eastern europeans for seeking a better life we need controlled numbers.
I am the son of irish and west indian parents, both immigrants in the 1960s. The press and blogs like this skirt a dangerous line, as its so easy to blame immigrants for all of Britains woes. Since WW2 Britain has been seen as the land of opportunity and attracted people from poorer nations and richer nations (australians, kiwis etc). I believe whole heartedly in allowing immigrants inot the UK, not uncontrolled. You dont let 100 people onto a bus for 50 people, for obvious reasons, likewise our country cannot allow countless millions into the country
Migrants help culturally as well as economically.
If people want the jobs, they will work hard for them. If not, its a free for all. Its not like employees only want to employ migrants, simply thst many people can't be bothered to go for those jobs.
As for your job, check your spelling or you might find the ´óÏó´«Ã½ have employed someone who can spell correctly.
The report itself is flawed in that it assumes the economy of Britain would be as good as it is now had we had no immigrants.
This is an assumption based on no data, as we have no way of knowing what the British economy would be like now with no immigration.
It's the Lords saying "Britain is great now, imagine what it would be like if we gave all those jobs that the immigrants hold to the indigenous British.".
It's pointless hindsight.
Hi, I am a Southern African who is working and living in this country, I speak english as a first language and have a degree, it took me a lot of money and time and repeated interviews and applications to get a work permit to work legally, as I am a law abiding citizen who pays taxes and enjoys living here.
There needs to be a restriction on who gets in and make sure that they are contributing to the economy and society. Qualified and educated people who will fit into a civilised society with rules to be obeyed should be welcomed and those who will not be shown the door.
Hi Victoria,
You certainly can't blame the immigrants for trying to better their lives when a country like ours welcomes them. However, I'm afraid our infrastructure just cannot cope with the number of people we now have. Surely the Government must realise that it's not just about boosting the economy. My son has been trying to get a temporary job for about 2 years without luck. Perhaps when the Polish return home it will free up some jobs.
Please do a spell check before posting your blog. At least immigrants can spell.
totally agree but who is listening the same government you are quoting are not going to change their attitude or policiies until something major happens ie a general election or some other public debate that does not get daubed with the racist slant that people always put on these types of debates
You ask any SME business in manufatcuring where they will go if the migrants didn't come to the Uk and they would answer China or India.
I guess sitting in the pub all day collecting benefits is more worthwhile than having a low income job.
Morning Victoria,
Migrants offer significant benefits to the cultural life of Britain, from food to religion and beyond. Cheap unskilled labour, more generally, benefits society by keeping wage inflation in check. One could argue whether lower wages are a benefit to British society or not, but that is certainly the stance the MPC currently seems to favour. But of course there will be negative factors, the economics of supply and demand is an equation and various factors must be 'equated' for a healthy economy to prosper.
And for all that people like to complain about Indian call centres, i tend to find that those staffed in England offer provide no better service and in a recent case can be considerably ruder and more offensive.
Having said all of that, it does seem the expansion of the EU has been poorly handled and poorly thought out. Not surprising really when the institutions of the EU itself are such an unelected shambles.
Swings and roundabouts...
Would politicians be so keen if immigrant politicians came over to do their jobs for less. A lot of foreign politicians would not need all the perks and fiddles that our lot get so why not try this and maybe we can get some value for money out of Westminster at last?
I cannot see how this country can continue to sustain immigration on the scale of which we have seen in the last 10 years.
The government are either blind or stupid (but i guess both) to to suggest immigration can continue and be a benefit for this country.
I agree with an earlier comment that there is serious social unrest regarding this issue but a diplomatic blind eye is turned and the phrase "cultural diversity" is dragged from the cupboard.
Absolute tosh. We cant even be "English" anymore without fear of upsetting one area of the community or another that has decided to live in the same street and not integrate into society.
Will the last person to leave the country please turn the light off.
I work in an NHS hospital - and it is incredibly hard as a clinician to provide effective intervention through interpreters. This is even more frustrating when the patients (immigrants) have lived in the UK for more than 10 years, yet have failed to eve try to learn to speak english. Interpreting services costs every NHS trust significant amounts every year, which in turn means that money is not available to pay for real treatments/care.
According to the independant group 'Migration watch',the reason we need immigrants is to service the high levels of immigration.
Richard
Immigration needs to be addressed in this country quickly as we are losing our identity as a nation which is extremely sad.
I agree with the points made about the minimum wage being prohibative for UK nationals to make a decent living - but the lowering of barriers to allow the tide of immigrants into the country has spiralled out of control. Whatever government statistic you read about the number of 'official' migrants here - you can double it, if not triple it.
I'm not a fervent nationalist by any means, but the erosion of our national identity through continued 'cultural integration' is creating so much social tension its going to explode sooner rather than later.
We have to adopt a fierce points system so only skilled workers get in, who can add genuine value to our economy. I fear its already a case of shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted though.
Being an immigrant myself I can't say immigration is bad, but it must be controlled. Also it is utterly wrong for the local councils to allow emerging of immigrant boroughs, as suggested for some of the Northern England towns. Plus lack of will to learn English to more than a mere understanding level, minus will to integrate to the local society. To the level where there are shops only for Polish people!
Moving to a different country, one should prove oneself before crying out for the benefits. But in this matter English are no better, IMHO. Way too many people are feeding the need for the cheap labor by simply not trying to raise their living standards.
I came to Britain as a highly skilled specialist and do not feel being guilty because someone else could not get the job. Being clumsy, lazy or not willing to put in extra work can not be blamed for the immigrants! I love Britain and it's culture, sadly I know more about it's history than any of my colleagues. And this I would put down as not being interested or bothered to learn. But if you are not interested of your culture, history or country on the whole and spend most of free time watching the soap from telly, are you any better than that Latvian couple who was given a council house, because they earn minimum income and think it was the only right thing to do? I do not think so.
An ever increasing population (either by immigration or high birth rates in the established population) puts unsustainable strain on the essential infrastructure of the country. Too many people trying to use the education system, the health system, the public transport system, and too many lorries filling up roads to try and support the excess population. Land prices spiral as the need to home the extra people competes with the need to expand the supporting infrastructure. When the UN conducts it's quality of life surveys, the top nations are ones that have combined a developed lifestyle with low population density - a balance of the need for personal space with the human social inclination. As a country we should aspire to a population dropping below 40 million, not rising above 70 million
Hi Victoria, I totally agree with you,
I don't mind it when people can speak english and settle into our culture like it's their own, but when people come here and don't settle into an english environment, I jst can't understand why they have migrated to England?
Now, I used to work in a shop in gateshead, and gateshead has an ethnic minority, therefore, you wouldn't expect many people who are not english, but in this shop it seemed as if they'd taken the "ethnic minority suport" a little too far, In this shop the english were the minority, which again I don't really mind, but when I'm expected to work alongside people that can't even speak the language of the country they work in, how am I supposed to help them with a problem. It's not as if no one would work there and they were 'filling jobs' I know a few people who went for interviews there and didn't get the job. I find it hard to understand why speaking english in a shop is not part of the criteria?
This country cannot continue to sustain the amount of immigrants it has already taken on board, our country is about to burst at the seams and I can't help feeling that once again the people of the UK are going to suffer for it!
I do not agree with the comment about the migrants dropping there tools for a day. Out of all the everyday jobs I see people doing, an englishman drives my train, and my bus, i have an english doctor, I could go on, but the point is, hundreds of young english people want to fill these rolls, but are streotyped as low life people who won't work!
I LISTEN TO YOUR SHOW THIS MORNING AND I AM APPALLED BY COMENTS MADE BY SOME OF YOUR LISTENERS I THINK BEING BRITISH DOES NOT MAKE YOU INTELLIGENT YOU HAVE TO ARQUIRE INTELLIGENCE BY GETTING EDUCATION AND DOING RESEARCHES ONE PERSON CALLED THAT POLISH AND AFRICANS COME TO ENGLAND AND GIVE BIRTH SO THEIR CHILDREN COULD GET BRITISH PASSPORT I WOULD ADVISE THAT CALLER NOT TO BE IGNORANT AND CHECK THEIR FACTS BEFORE MAKING A JOKE OF THEMSELVES.POINT OF CORRECTION YOU DO NOT GET BRITISH PASSPORT FOR YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU ARE NOT A PERMANENT RESIDENTS OF ONE OF THE PARENT IS BRITISH THIS RULE APPLY TO FELLOW E.Us ,AMERICANS AUSSIES AND KIWIS I FEEL BAD FOR PEOPLE WHO CALL YOUR SHOW WITHOUT HAVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IT BREED RACISM AND HATRED AND I THINK YOU SHOULD START TELLING THEM TO GET THEIR FACTS RIGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE LISTEN TO YOUR SHOWS AND THEY SOMETIME BELIEVE SUCH CALLERS, THE HOMEOFFICE WEBSITE IS THEIR FOR ALL TO GET INFORMATION THE ONLY FEW BIG COUNTRY THAT GIVE AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP REGARDLESS OF YOUR STATUS IS THE UNITED STATES AND THAT WHY THEY WILL ALWAYS BE THE NUMBER ONE NATION IN THE WORLD. WITH REGARDS TO IMMIGRANTS COMING TO U.K ITS SOMETHING THAT WILL BE HARD TO STOP BECAUSE IMMIGRATIONS IS A WORLD PHENOMENUM EVERY COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD SUFFERS IT AND THE POOREST NATIONS ARE THE ONE WHO HAVE MORE IMMIGRATION PROBLEMS BUT THEY DO NOT MOAN ABOUT IT IT SUIT THE BRITS TO GO EVERYWHERE AND PEOPLE SHOULD NOT COMPLAIN BRITS ARE THE MOST IMMIGRANTS IN THE WORLD AND I WILL GIVE YOU EXAMPLES, GO TO SPAIN,CLOSE TO OME MILLION BRITS, GREECE,QUARTER OF A MILLION, ZIMBABAWE,KENYA,SOUTH AFRICA NAMIBIA SAUDI ARABIA KUWAIT,AMERICA,AUSTRALIA NEWZEALAND,PORTUGAL GIBRALTER ALL THESE COUNTRIES ARE FILLED WITH BRITS AND YOU DONT HEAR THEM MOAN AND YOU STILL THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH REGARDS TO SCHOOLS THERE ARE ENOUGH SCHOOL FOR THIS POPULATION ITS JUST THAT THE BRITS ARE SPOILT WITH CHOICES OF TOO FEW GOOD SCHOOLS AND LOTS OF BAD ONES THAT THE GOVERNMENT NEED TO ADDRESS U.K HAVE MORE SCHOOLS THAN MOST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD BUT LESS PEOPLE ATTEND THEM COMPARE TO OTHER COUNTRIES WITH FEW SCHOOLS AND OVERCROWDING IN THEM . ON THE JOB MATTERS THAT IMMIGRANT ARE TAKING THE JOB THATS A LOT OF BULL HOW MANY IMMIGRANT WORK IN THE CITY HOW MANY ARE COE OF COMAPANIES IMMIGRANT HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO TAKE JOBS THE BRITS DONT SEE THEMSELVES DOING AND I UNDERSTAND THE FEELING BECAUSE THE SAME IMMIGRANT THAT CLEAN ROAD SHOPS TOILET WOULD NOT DO THE SAME JOB BACK IN THEIR COUNTRIES WITH THE SAME EASE THE DO IT OVER HERE. U.K SEEM TO BE THE LUCKIEST NATION IN EUROPE AND THE HAVE TO COUNT THEIR BLESSINGS BECAUSE WITH THE NUMBERS OF IMMIGRANTS THAT HAVE COME TO THE U.K IN THE LAST 4 YEARS THERE ARE STILL SURPLUS JOBS BEEN ADVERTISED. I HAVE READ SOME OF THE POST THE WAY IMMIGRANT LIVE IN THE COUNTRY NO BRITS WOULD WANT TO LIVE THAT WAY I.E 5 IN A ONE BED FLAT DONT ALWAYS BUY DESIGNERS CLOTHES AND GOING ON HOLIDAYS EVERY MONTHS U.K IS TOUGH FOR MOST IMMIGRANTS TOO SOMETIMES IMMIGRANTS TAKE 2 JOBS TO SURVIVE I WOULD RECOMMEND CALLERS TO STOP PREACHING HATE ON NATIONAL RADIOS BRITS ARE BEGINING TO SOUND LIKE THE FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIMS GET YOUR FACTS RIGTH
I rather like immigrants, I'd rather share the country with educated Poles than uneducated proles. The fact is that keen people are coming from Eastern Europe and all over the world to do jobs that the local population can't move a few miles to do. If young British people find it harder to get jobs then they should pay more attention at school and get better grades. People who use schools are better off because the immigrants work and pay taxes rather than live on the dole, and they bring an attitude of striving for betterment that the local people lack. I'll bet that children of immigrant workers are much more attentive in class than British kids. As for hospitals, most of the immigrants are young adults, the group least likely to use hospitals. As for houses, well it's our own fault for not freeing up more land for development.
You could have at least proofread and spell-checked your article!
What are 'significant economic benefits'? If taxes paid by immigrant labour are going to the exchequer, the contribution doesn't stop there. It helps run the thousands of services that native British citizens depend upon just as much as immigrants and employers.
The Prime Minister, and formerly Chancellor, has talked of Britain's resilient and growing economy since Labour came to power - an economy underpinned by the army of lowly paid (and substantially immigrant) service workers.
I spent much of Monday in a huge Midlands hospital attending my widowed mother. Anyone with their eyes half open could see that the institution would have ground to a halt had you withdrawn all the migrant employees on duty. Significant benefit? My mum thought so.
One 'l' in demolishes, by the way.
I know personally of a person who is wanting to be housed. She is a single parent with two teenagers and was living with her parents and cousin in a three bedroomed house. When she was assessed by the council, she was told that there was no overcrowding in the house. Her parents have been suffering with their health because of the overcrowding, so she went to rent privately. Because the rent is so much, she has had to take on an extra job on top of the full time job she now has. She has to work 60 hours per week to make ends meet. Our council welcomes people from all over the world and offers them housing in the area. They don't have to wait, and if they have a large family, then they get a large house. My friend has paid into the system all her working life, never been on the dole, never been on the sick. yet she can't benefit from the local housing because there are too many people from overseas needing them. I think that it is all well and good to help people regardless of where they come from, but at what cost? This makes people very bitter and with all the best will in the world, will make us more racist than we would have been.
I am a Kenyan International student paying £10,000 in tuition fees every year, for the last three years. I think it is simplistic to say that immigrants don’t contribute to the economy, as international students we contribute a lot to higher education; most people seem to forget that the UK economy is becoming more market based, this goes to affect the wage structure, and we can’t expect cleaners to be paid £10 an hour just to make the job attractive for a British citizen while a migrant worker can do it for £6. I think the immigration debate also misses the point when we are talking about Non-EU immigrants while clearly the problem is Immigrants coming from EU but that is much harder to deal with or even talk about so let’s go after the easy target.
On enquiring to Norfolk County Council an 18 year old and her partner, could they get their name on the housing list only to be told ''It will be a long wait if at all, to get a house unless you are pregnant or a foreigner''
"At 09:24 AM on 01 Apr 2008, Tony Campbell wrote: Can we imagine a situation where the immigrant community down their tools for one day. I wonder how the care homes, buses, car wash places, trains, fast food restaurants. I think they should then the argument is put to bed once and for all."
Sorry Tony, you are talking rubbish. The report just says we should limit immigration per year and manage it better, not eliminate it.
Your simplistic argument suggests there are two alternatives: unlimited immigration and no immigration.
Of course we need people from outside Britain to come and live and work, but we need to manage the situation so we only get the numbers we need and that we don't end up a situation that works against the resident population, regardless of their ethnic origin. Thats what the reports says, and it sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Just a comment on wage inflation that i noted...
Maybe if we haven't had as much immigration then wage inflation will have increased, but considering most people can't afford a home then wage inflation is probably a good thing so that wages can come into line with house prices.
Failing that then we should have a recession, falling house prices and a country less attractive to immigrants to balance things out.
It is obvious to anyone living in this country that mass immigration has been a disaster for the British people. In fact it will be seen as the biggest disaster since 1066.
It has nothing to do with racism or blaming immigrants.
Clearly some immigration was neccessary but the extent of our immigration has been rediculous. Economic benefits( if any) should not be the only criteria, how well immigrants can be absorbed into our society, and can they become indistinguishable from British people over time. No other country has voluntarily allowed its indigenous people to become the minority.
Hi all.
Why in so many comments word "immigrant" is replaced by "polish"? Like they are only immigrants here? Beside I am an immigrant as well and unfortunatelly there is some true:(. Solution is simple - just arrange an english test as a restriction. Can't pass = can't come in. People speaking english in just basic level can integrate, do not have to separate. Do not need translators - England pays a lot to arrange it. And about half of them will move back if they have to pass a simple test. People speaking english - mostly of course - will not work for minimum salary so they do not decrase it. All sorted. Great Britain can not say stop to immigration but should put some restrictrions live. Woman wrote, her son can not find work for about 2 years... He can not or he do not want? I think it is impossible. Can not become manager straight - start at the bottom of the ladder.
I work only with english people and they were able to find work. How to do it? Just open newspaper or go online... Nothing easier only if you want. Good luck!
Mr Bayo
I am sure you have many valid points to make but lack of punctuation and the aggressive 'Caps Lock' style makes it very hard to get a grasp of what you're saying.
To say that callers to a radio show are breeding racism and hate by expressing their opinion that there may well be too many people in the country is way off the mark. This is a hot topic for debate right now and I'm sure that debate is truly needed if we are all to live side by side, but to start waving the racist flag? It's not really called for. As far as I can tell the issue was never about race, the topic was on immigration.
Race was never a part of the conversation and shouldn't be, it should be: can the infrastructure of the country support so many.
There are scroungers living in this country of every gender, race, sexuality and right to live in the country which should be addressed.
Well what can you say?
The country seems clearly divided into those who are not affected by immigration and those that are.
Those that are tend to use this as an excuse for everything and those that aren't tend to ignore the issues as it doesn't affect them.
Perhaps the man problem lies in 2 areas:
1) get the feckless brits off the couch and back to work.
2) Restrict massively any access to benefit for 3 years to anyone entering the country..Simple rule if you can support youself and family for 3 years then fine...if not sorry its a no go.
This would stop all the complaints about people just coming for benefits.
A further point and one that I have never understood is that with regards to asylum i thought the rule was that you had to claim asylum in the first free country you reached. If this is so how can we ever get Kurdish asylum seekers in this country or has the golbe changed whilst i wasn't looking.
Being an immigrant myself I can't say immigration is bad, but it must be controlled. Also it is utterly wrong for the local councils to allow emerging of immigrant boroughs, as suggested for some of the Northern England towns. Plus lack of will to learn English to more than a mere understanding level, minus will to integrate to the local society. To the level where there are shops only for Polish people!
Moving to a different country, one should prove oneself before crying out for the benefits. But in this matter English are no better, IMHO. Way too many people are feeding the need for the cheap labor by simply not trying to raise their living standards.
I came to Britain as a highly skilled specialist and do not feel being guilty because someone else could not get the job. Being clumsy, lazy or not willing to put in extra work can not be blamed for the immigrants! I love Britain and it's culture, sadly I know more about it's history than any of my colleagues. And this I would put down as not being interested or bothered to learn. But if you are not interested of your culture, history or country on the whole and spend most of free time watching the soap from telly, are you any better than that Latvian couple who was given a council house, because they earn minimum income and think it was the only right thing to do? I do not think so.
Being an immigrant myself I can't say immigration is bad, but it must be controlled. Also it is utterly wrong for the local councils to allow emerging of immigrant boroughs, as suggested for some of the Northern England towns. Plus lack of will to learn English to more than a mere understanding level, minus will to integrate to the local society. To the level where there are shops only for Polish people!
Moving to a different country, one should prove oneself before crying out for the benefits. But in this matter English are no better, IMHO. Way too many people are feeding the need for the cheap labor by simply not trying to raise their living standards.
I came to Britain as a highly skilled specialist and do not feel being guilty because someone else could not get the job. Being clumsy, lazy or not willing to put in extra work can not be blamed for the immigrants! I love Britain and it's culture, sadly I know more about it's history than any of my colleagues. And this I would put down as not being interested or bothered to learn. But if you are not interested of your culture, history or country on the whole and spend most of free time watching the soap from telly, are you any better than that Latvian couple who was given a council house, because they earn minimum income and think it was the only right thing to do? I do not think so.
Being an immigrant myself I can't say immigration is bad, but it must be controlled. Also it is utterly wrong for the local councils to allow emerging of immigrant boroughs, as suggested for some of the Northern England towns. Plus lack of will to learn English to more than a mere understanding level, minus will to integrate to the local society. To the level where there are shops only for Polish people!
Moving to a different country, one should prove oneself before crying out for the benefits. But in this matter English are no better, IMHO. Way too many people are feeding the need for the cheap labor by simply not trying to raise their living standards.
I came to Britain as a highly skilled specialist and do not feel being guilty because someone else could not get the job. Being clumsy, lazy or not willing to put in extra work can not be blamed for the immigrants! I love Britain and it's culture, sadly I know more about it's history than any of my colleagues. And this I would put down as not being interested or bothered to learn. But if you are not interested of your culture, history or country on the whole and spend most of free time watching the soap from telly, are you any better than that Latvian couple who was given a council house, because they earn minimum income and think it was the only right thing to do? I do not think so.
Everyone loses! An ever increasing population (either by immigration or high birth rates in the established population) puts unsustainable strain on the essential infrastructure of the country. Too many people trying to use the education system, the health system, the public transport system, and too many lorries filling up roads to try and support the excess population. Land prices spiral as the need to home the extra people competes with the need to expand the supporting infrastructure. When the UN conducts it's quality of life surveys, the top nations are ones that have combined a developed lifestyle with low population density - a balance of the need for personal space with the human social inclination. As a country we should aspire to a population dropping below 40 million, not rising above 70 million