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Freak Zone permalink
Is folk music freaky?
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Swell_Map (U14129256) on Wednesday, 30th September 2009
I'd say on the whole, no.
Stuart obviously disagrees because he plays so much of it.
There are a few exceptions, with some good new pysch folk in recent years but all that trad folk that gets played on the freak zone is not freaky in the least to these ears.
I'm sure others will disagree. -
Message 2
Posted by The_Purple_Gooroo (U14143748) on Wednesday, 30th September 2009
I partly agree with you, Swell. I think Stuart adds some trad. English folk to stay true to the eclecticism of TFZ - for a bit more of a wider range of sounds, than just left-field electronic stuff, avant-jazz & psych/prog rekkids.
He does chuck in psych-folk (I.S.B., Pentangle, etc.), to balance the 'finger-in-the-ear' folk, it seems to me, anyway. -
Message 3
Posted by radioshoes (U2508121) on Wednesday, 30th September 2009
I think there are many forms of folk whose inclusion on FZ is justified, especially those that shade into other forms like psychedelia, jazz, world or classical music. Where I part company with the present policy is in the inclusion of what I'd call 'pure' traditional folk - people like Shirley Collins, Martin Carthy, etc - where the intention is simply the continuation of established traditions. Surely this form of music should be adequately catered for on radio by mainstream folk music programming. Then again, I've always thought that the FZ's primary focus should be on hybrid music - music that simply pays no heed to matters like genre and which gets excluded from traditional radio formats as a result.
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Message 4
Posted by Mondofreaky (U14125661) on Thursday, 1st October 2009
Interesting topic this one.
Generally speaking I'd say that the only real remit for The Freak Zone is that there is no remit other than to reflect anything that might be regarded as leftfield, or outside of the mainstream.
Consequently its range has always been, and remains, very broad. Ecleticism, like seminal, is a much abused term though it's an apt one for what goes on from 5.30-8pm on 6 Music.
In terms of Folk music i'd say it's very much within the parameters, such as they're loosely defined, of the show. The more 'traditional' material, Shirley Collins/Martin Carthy etc, that's being refered to here often has a modal/pagan/primal aspect to it that's mirrored elsewhere in the show in some of the more contemporary material, much of what's released on the Ghost Box label for example.
I've got the Cherry Tree reissue of the 2 Jan Dukes De Grey albums on the cans at the moment, you'd have to place them somewhere in the folk canon and if they're not Freaky I don't know what is.
Listen out for a forthcoming Freak Zone interview with Jan Dukes De Grey's Derek Noy very soon.... -
Message 5
Posted by SofieSea (U14154261) on Thursday, 1st October 2009
music born out of tradition, passing of 'folklore' from ear to ear, music sometimes with no known composer.. that sounds pretty freaky to me!
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Message 6
Posted by radioshoes (U2508121) on Thursday, 1st October 2009
I just think that since the FZ is the ONLY window on national radio for music which isn't governed by considerations of genre, and since there's such a teeming multitude of such music out there, it's a shame to blow any of that precious time on music that could be played on other shows with a more genre-specific brief. I present a not dissimilar show myself on local radio, and I'm constantly amazed how much remarkable (and uncategorisable) music doesn't make it to the FZ. This is especially frustrating in a week when the running time is eaten up by 20-minute tracks, old TV theme tunes, free jazz, cheesy soundtrack music and traditional folk. If there were other shows on national radio that covered similar territory, I wouldn't have a problem with that. But there ain't, so I do . . .
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Message 7
Posted by Nick_Lees (U14141320) on Thursday, 1st October 2009
I think if FZ were to restrict itself to only playing truly freaky things then it'd be a long hard listen. The thing that makes it Radio Me is it covers all the various by-ways (even the free jazz ones
). I've learned more new music here just because the programme won't stay in its box, and long may it remain so. -
Message 8
Posted by marcush (U14146959) on Thursday, 1st October 2009
I think the mix is pretty good. Sometimes the show will concentrate more on a particular genre.
As for Folk. Its such a broad spectrum. For me leftfield folk can be the Wicker Man soundtrack, Some tracks by Caravan, Incredible String Band. i dont know much modern strange folk. If anyone can enlighten me that would be cool. -
Message 9
Posted by the13thfloorelevator (U14119584) on Saturday, 3rd October 2009
Check out the band Feathers and their self-titled debut. I would say that is pretty freaky.
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Message 10
Posted by theagata (U13939249) on Saturday, 3rd October 2009
Devendra Banhart plays freak folk and I like it
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Message 11
Posted by radioshoes (U2508121) on Saturday, 3rd October 2009
Devendra Banhart plays freak folk and he bores me to death.
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Message 12
Posted by jasonaparkes (U3653332) on Sunday, 4th October 2009
I don't know....a lot of it is very influential on the new wave of freaky/psych folk artists, e.g. Espers, Devendra, Cave Singers, Joanna Newsom etc. I think the Pentangle pass the test as they are not only influential but tap into dark folk songs, go in a jazz-direction, and get the sitar out from time to time...
Maybe there should be a special on freaky folk and their influences, or the excellent Devendra Banhart-comp 'Golden Apples of the Sun' (available from Arthur Magazine on-line) should be LP of the week? That was the place a lot of folk heard Antony, Espers and Joanna Newsom and is probably the Nuggets of the zeroes... -
Message 13
Posted by the13thfloorelevator (U14119584) on Sunday, 4th October 2009
I'm very hit and miss when it comes to folk. Some of it I find outright dull, but there are always exceptions to the rule.
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Message 14
Posted by Nigel OS (U9684950) on Sunday, 4th October 2009
I'm staggered to comprehend how some people think the traditional music Stuart plays is not freaky enough. Listen to the spooky, MR James-like imagery in some of the ballads of death, haunting and elfin weirdness. Listen to the amazing guitar/fiddle interplay and the raw, impassioned quality of the singing in something like Carthy and Swarbrick's "Prince Heathen". Listen to the starkly ethereal otherworldliness of prime Shirley Collins - starting with her monumental "Love, Death and the Lady". Listen to Gryphon's epic and deeply unsettling "The Unquiet Grave". Listen to how the best of the current crop of folkies - such as Rachel and Becky Unthank - channel that strange and keening spirit for a new audience. To these ears, the best of traditional folk (and the best of the revival) is the original inhabitant of the freak zone! I'm glad you can hear folk music on the Beeb in a context that takes it out of the realm of easy listening.
Think about it- folk music gets one hour's dedicated time a week on national radio and has to be presented in a way that sits comfortably with Radio 2's aims and demographic. That means (with the exception of the odd track) it's programming largely tends towards the bland, the unchallenging, the airbrushed and the uninspiring. There is plenty of current traditional music out there that doesn't fit within the remit of Radio Two - The Owl Service, Venereum Arvum, Nancy Wallace, Jim Eldon, etc. And there's plenty of older stuff - Peter Bellamy, Ray Fisher, Derek and Dorothy Elliot, Mike and Lal Waterson and so on that is definitely seeped in wyrdness.
I would vote for "Hearken to the Witches Rune" by Dave and Toni Arthur or "The Bonny Birdy" by Ray Fisher as future featured albums.
Please don't begrudge us freak flag flying folkies our occasional indulgence. It's one of the many things that makes Freak Zone far and away the best music progamme on radio. -
Message 15
Posted by RaymondoBongo (U14139699) on Sunday, 4th October 2009
Is folk music freaky? Well, who's going to give us all a definition of "freaky"? Then we might be able to decide.
I love Freakzone just as it is. I personally like folk, whether it be traditional or "freaky". For example, I'd not heard Mr Fox until a tune was played a few weeks back. I've since bought the CD and love it. Thank you FZ.
Based on my vague idea of what constitutes "freaky" music (ie. psychy-acidy-sixtiesy-seventiesy-proggy-etc), FZ is maybe only 50% freaky. For example, I wouldn't describe Half Man Half Biscuit as freaky. Am I glad to hear them as a featured album? Oooooh, yes. What a blast.
FZ surprises me every week with the music it plays. I never know quite what to expect. If it was all "freaky", I think I might get a little bored week after week.
Oh, and I like a bit of free-jazz here and there too. -
Message 16
Posted by marcush (U14146959) on Sunday, 4th October 2009
Interesting that you mention HMHB. Some of their later tracks certainly have folky traditional elements.
Its nice to hear them on Freakzone, though its not technically an album. The tracks were on Trumpton Riots E.p
Thanks to everybody for the suggestions for modern freaky folk. I will certainly check those out -
Message 17
Posted by smilingnurseynursey (U14140423) on Saturday, 10th October 2009
Went to see Ade Edmundson and the black sheep last night ,folk versions of punk classics,particularly good Gary Gilmores eyes and we're going down the pub etc,heard lyrics which i'd never set eyes on before, (and i've been listening along time to this stuff)the illumination of parts hithertoo hidden in what was familiar is the purpose of the freaky.
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Message 18
Posted by frankiemew (U14173227) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
Try The Incredible String Band's changing horses
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Message 19
Posted by marcush (U14146959) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
I listened to some of the UK suggestions and to my ears it sounds like traditonal folk...good folk but trad folk. Not wierd at all. The vocals have that clasic folk element it to it, e.g "I left liverpool never to returnnnnn".
Maybe I just have to accept I like a bit of a Psych element to it all. Without the finger in the ear business.
The USA suggestions are interesting.... though Devendra Banhart - sounds pretty mainstream to my ears. Wife pointed out he was played on Radio 1 this morning.
Feathers Is Smile with more magic mushrooms. I like it!!
I find myself listening to more "alternative folk" from the other side of the pond. There must be modern decent British freaky folk out there. -
Message 20
Posted by Psychedelic Goth (U14137191) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
I'm with you Marcush, old folk to me all sounds 'didn't we have a loverly day the day we went to Bangor'. There's this one 'folk' accent that I really don't like. I also don't get on with there not being the 'usual' song structure - although I tend to favour unconventional song structures elsewhere, with folk it bugs me. There never seems to be a corus, just several verses of the same tune. It's a bit boring - especially if you don't care about the story they tell. But I really do like the Espers version of Rosemary Lane. Stuart has played a few versions of it before, and I'll stick with theirs. I also need the psyche element. I like Espers alot, and have no idea why they or Mr B for that matter are considered folk. Like all this new country music, which okay has moved away from all the cliches, but now just sounds like twangy pop. What makes modern folk songs folky? I'm talking new songs, not new versions of old songs, cos to me they sound little different from the more melodic guitar bands.
In terms of English folk I'd have to suggest Circulus for the sheer comedy value alone. It's certainly freaky.
Having said all that, I can't bear free jazz, or much Prog either but I still like to hear both on the Zone just cause that's what it's there for. And for every tune I dislike, there is usually another gem around the corner sounding all the sweeter for the previous noise.
^_^ -
Message 21
Posted by LJJsPlectrum (U14169939) on Wednesday, 14th October 2009
What about Comus, First Utterance? I'm sure Stuart must have featured this at some point and it is very freaky. In terms of 'new' stuff the John Barleycorn Revisited compilation has a stack of great music. I picked up on this because of FZ. Also the Owl Service and The Memory Band both of whom have played the Supersonic Festival.
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