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Prof's old right-wing proggers theory
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Pynchon (U14321728) on Wednesday, 3rd February 2010
On Sunday's programme, Prof Spear raised the controversial issue of whether retired proggers are more likely to be reactionary old right-wing gits (ie more likely than muso's from other genres of popular music). At the risk of over-generalising i reckon he has a valid point.
Phil Collins is perhaps the most famous ex-progger turned Tory , but what about Steve Howe, Rick Wakeman? (Clapton was more of a rocker but he has expressed a few right-field views in his time.)
Largely from middle-class backgrounds and joining bands straight from public school - it is no wonder that a lot of proggers are divorced from reality to some extent, something echoed in the lyrics of their music (social realist poetry, it aint, for the most part).
But I reckon this is a largely Brit phenomenon. A lot of German proggers either came directly out of or were culturally inspired by the underground scene there in the late 60's and 70's (anti-fascist, anti-US, etc in a country where this stuff was more relevant than pulling on a t-shirt or pinning on a badge) - and from what I can make out from interviews with some of them, have retained sympathy for their youthful politics.
It's hard to imagine Brit proggers having much to say about politics at all, unless it's vaguely reactionary in some way, viz Wakeman's grumpy old man persona. (If Robert Wyatt's considered a progger then he's the exception, I guess - although Stalin was hardly a libertarian...)
I'd love someone to prove me wrong. I love prog, but as an old anarchist it says v little to me of political relevance.
Are ALL the old proggers secretly members of the Tax Payers' Alliance, or funding UKIP? -
Message 2
Posted by LoudGeoffW (U11943874) on Wednesday, 3rd February 2010
Depends who you class as prog I guess. David Gilmour and Roger Waters have always espoused pretty left-wing views, but come from that same middle-class background.
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Message 3
Posted by Trinoc (U2154507) on Thursday, 4th February 2010
Not only proggers. Look at Bono's recent tirades against file sharing, calling it "Robin Hood in reverse"!
Robbing from the poor (millionaires like him) and giving it to the rich (ourselves and our friends). Yeah, right! -
Message 4
Posted by Swell_Map (U14129256) on Thursday, 4th February 2010
In my experience, goths turn out to be liberal democrats and most people who bought Front 242 records in the mid 80s are now millionaires
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Message 5
Posted by LJJsPlectrum (U14169939) on Friday, 5th February 2010
Henry Cow, Art Bears, Frith, Cutler, Krause etc all very left wing. Can't imagine Phil Collins singing tuneful little ditties such as: The Song of Investment Capital Overseas and The Song of the Dignity of Labour under Capital!
Then there was the whole RIO - Rock in Opposition alliance. That would be worth a FZ special. -
Message 6
Posted by LezricFitztacles (U14153033) on Saturday, 6th February 2010
No but he DID sing Blood on the Rooftops which kind of lambasts that whole cozy English Daily Mail reader (always think thats an Oxymoron myself) bury one's head in the sand and think of old Blighty attitude.
He's still a frightful old Tory though!
Mind you, when the likes of Tony Banks says things like "well I have Socialist tendencies", (implying he has difficulty with the wealth he's amassed), what on earth is that supposed to mean? How can you have Socialist tendencies while coming from such a privileged Ivory Tower background, invest in Scottish spruce forests, acquire vast amounts of property etc and never have to worry even ONCE in your life where the next meal or job is coming from?
Yeah tho, I agree there is a strain of it running through the Prog world - but to be fair im sure it's not restricted to that "Realm".
BTW, I posted this at 3.32pm on Saturday 6th February. For some reason, despite being on here for a while, my posts are still being moderated, which of course means that it looks like youre coming in late to discussions all the time.
Cheers all
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Message 7
Posted by The_Purple_Gooroo (U14143748) on Sunday, 7th February 2010
I suppose the Prof. does have a bit of a point, but then, with only Collins and Wakeman as proof, it's seems a bit of a forced argument (does Steve Howe really vote Conservative?? I am stunned by that).
As someone else mentioned, Roger Waters and Dave Gilmour still seem pretty left-leaning, as do a lot of the RIO proggers. Faust still seem like near-anarchists to me. I'm not sure where Brian Eno and Robert Fripp 'are' on the politcal spectrum, but I suspect they're lefties as well.
I can still enjoy the music and leave the artists' politial views out. Sometimes I really think that politics and music don't mix at all. -
Message 8
Posted by John (U14340466) on Monday, 15th February 2010
Definately - The whole RIO movement needs to be a FZ Special - there has to be room for Etron Fou Leloublan, Univers Zero, etc - there are some great bands to be heard.
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Message 9
Posted by Swell_Map (U14129256) on Monday, 15th February 2010
Presenters of home improvement programmes are always Tories. But hosts of gardening programmes lean towards the Liberals.
Interesting, non? -
Message 10
Posted by aviddiva (U13145965) on Tuesday, 16th February 2010
But doesn't one-time TV gardener Alan Titchmarsh fly the right-wing flag on his chat show (other teatime shows are available)which was described as 'The Daily Mail in TV form'?
I try not to let musicians' political views cloud my judgement (in prog at least), but I'm not keen on Phil Collins's Tory views, nor Keith Emerson hanging out with Jim Davidson (yikes!).
I always wondered if 'Blood On the Rooftops' was AGAINST that Daily Mail image of England, rather than for. -
Message 11
Posted by LezricFitztacles (U14153033) on Saturday, 20th February 2010
Yeah I think it is, if not lambasting it as I mentioned before, then saying "well, there's these types of people and this is what they think and how they act. You decide if you like it or not".
I heard about the Emmerson/Davidson association too - I suppose, given Davidson's obession with ELP it isnt too surprising. Mind you, at the end of the day it's good to hang out with people of differing "colours", although I suspect in that case it's more of a "birds of a feather" scenario
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Message 12
Posted by LJJsPlectrum (U14169939) on Sunday, 21st February 2010
I recalled reading recently that Keith Emerson and John Lydon live close to each other in LA and meet up occassionally 'for lunch' after being introduced through the Nordoff-Robbins music charity. From Lydon's website:
"But the biggest fun of the night was meeting Keith Emerson, of Emerson Lake & Palmer (laughs), I really got on well with him! It’s amazing how this music industry wants us to be enemies, and we’re not."
Johnny's closet prog tendancies come to the fore once again? -
Message 13
Posted by The_Purple_Gooroo (U14143748) on Sunday, 21st February 2010
Hmmm...seems as if ol' Johnny's a Floyd fan as well..
I wonder how much of his statements 'are' revisionist history...I suppose all that "I Hate Pink Floyd" stuff could've been Malcolm McLaren's influence. -
Message 14
Posted by LJJsPlectrum (U14169939) on Sunday, 21st February 2010
Yes, Lydon also very open about his admiration for Magma, Can, Beefheart and especially Peter Hammill and Van Der Graaf Generator and of course dub reggae.
Saw Pil last year and sort of expected a bit of a car crash without Wobble and Levene but it was brilliant, especially Metal Box era.
Works the other way round as well...this months Record Collector has Jimmy Page praising The Damned. -
Message 15
Posted by Themixer (U14130983) on Sunday, 28th February 2010
is the problem that they vote Tory or that they're capitalistic? I don't see anything wrong with the latter but the former inc. social and constitutional policies too which are deeply uncool imo. I mean just unforviably uncool. Let's face it we've all got bank accounts, we all listen to auntie beeb and we'd all bow to prince harry if we were lucky enough to meet him. So, we live in a conservative country. Deal with it.
ps.
ignore the harry jibe. -
Message 16
Posted by KingLudd (U14703455) on Sunday, 5th June 2011
As other people have said there's alot of German Kosmichemusic made by very left wing people - the original Amon Duul were members of a commune who hung out with the Baader Meinhof - and someone else on this thread has discussed Faust and anarchism. ROI in france of course, and in Sweden the movement called Progg, which was explicitly anti-capitalist.
None of these three are really prog in the English sense of rococo cape wearing mixolydian time signature weirdness, but they share the same interest in formal ambition, in classical music, experimentation and eclectic influences.
I think Stuart has played some Progg on the show. The brilliant Bo Hansson for instance, who died last year and who I recently discovered ended up homeless, like Jackson C. Frank and Peter Green.
I like your name Pynchon. The man himself mentions Frank Zappa in Vineland, I remember - and all sorts of other freaky musicians in Inherent Vice, including Tiny Tim's fantastic track "The Icecaps Are Melting". -
Message 17
Posted by KingLudd (U14703455) on Sunday, 5th June 2011
I mean RIO of course, not ROI. Little gallic Freudian slit there from King Ludd.
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