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Con-ti-nu-ity
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Message 1.Â
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
Tayler - is it too much to ask that scenes in TA and Amex could appear in time order?
In Amex today we heard Susan at Mum's surprised by Clive - but we had already heard her report this to Neil as a past event. So no surprise.
With the current schedule there is no excuse for discontinuity because each Amex at 14:15 is between consecutive TAs at 14:00 and 19:00 same day -
Message 2
Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
is it too much to ask that scenes in TA and Amex could appear in time order?Â
Probably, seeing as all the epis are written & probably recorded by now.
I guess what we heard at the start of todays epi happened yesterday, ie before last night's TA, and the scene at The Bull might very well be tonight, or even tomorrow.....The two AmEx epis cover a whole week, not just what happens on Tuesdays & Thursdays.
Think of it like Sudoko, ie good brain exercise. -
Message 3
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
Think of it like Sudoko, ie good brain exercise.Â
Thank God I kicked the Sudoku habit. They are either too easy or take more time than they are worth.
I still do the Telegraph Sujiko and keep a pen in the bathroom for the purpose. -
Message 4
Posted by _ShropshireLad_ (U10844552) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
With the current schedule there is no excuse for discontinuity because each Amex at 14:15 is between consecutive TAs at 14:00 and 19:00 same day Â
It would be something of a unsurmountable constraint for all of the Amex episodes to fit in between all of TA episodes, though.
Nothing could ever happen in Amex other than on Tuesdays and Thursdays, apart from anything else.
As long as no two events in Amex occur out of sequence in TA or vice versa then that's OK as far as I can see. -
Message 5
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
In reply to :
With the current schedule there is no excuse for discontinuity because each Amex at 14:15 is between consecutive TAs at 14:00 and 19:00 same day
It would be something of a unsurmountable constraint for all of the Amex episodes to fit in between all of TA episodes, though.
Nothing could ever happen in Amex other than on Tuesdays and Thursdays, apart from anything else.
As long as no two events in Amex occur out of sequence in TA or vice versa then that's OK as far as I can see.Â
I agree, if your last sentence means what I think it means. ie that if events occur or are referred to in both programmes they should do so in logical sequence.
But what we have just had in TA Weds repeated Thurs 2pm is Susan telling Neil about seeing Clive at her Mums; then in Amex the actual event happening afterwards.
When I first heard Susan I thought she must be someone else because whoever was thinking clearly did not know Clive was back, but I knew Susan did know, and had known the previous night.
It just needs a bit of effort to get things to happen in order. -
Message 6
Posted by orson cartier (U2255827) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
Should one now start a complaining and a campaigning for a spoiler TA thread on here for AmEx only listener's..? For those that don't listen to TA daily or listen to the omnibus.
Mebe a sticky thread for talking about TA on the Ambridge Extra board in a what occurred/s in TA stays in TA, kinda way.. -
Message 7
Posted by Denny (U14721566) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
I was tickled by this post, Orson.
Going back to todays episode I too felt jolted by the continuity.
I was also thrown by the flashback .
I didn't like hearing Susan opening the door and then discovering Clive and then being shocked and surprised ; as from TA I couldn't imagine her possibly wanting to go around there since she knew Clive was there and she was so upset and frightened about him.
Also, Susan in TA last night was a nervous wreck, whereas in Amex she stood up to him asking him when he was going and berating him for having upset so many people in the village.
It was all too much for my little brain to add up. -
Message 8
Posted by SmuggerthanShulamoreannoyingthanPip (U14966781) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
Agree with most of the posts here - it's not that I find it hard to follow when things don't happen sequentially between TA and AmEx, or that I mind any cross over (appreciate others do) but frankly I just find it a bit dull.
As has already been pointed out - listeners to both programmes already know Radio was shocked by Clive the Convict's return, once I know, I really couldn't care less about hearing a blow by blow 'flashback' about the letters on Ivy's doormat, the CTC's plans for reforming himself (again) blah, blah, blah snooooooze.
Having said that, I would be interested to hear what goes on in say, Ruairi's school, or on Chris's mobile farrier rounds, or even a bit of how Pheeeebs is getting on in Sarf Africa (I've even surprised myself with this one). -
Message 9
Posted by _ShropshireLad_ (U10844552) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
I agree, if your last sentence means what I think it means. ie that if events occur or are referred to in both programmes they should do so in logical sequence.
But what we have just had in TA Weds repeated Thurs 2pm is Susan telling Neil about seeing Clive at her Mums; then in Amex the actual event happening afterwards.Â
The events occurred in logical sequence within their own domains. They are only out of sequence if you try to cross-reference them using broadcast time. But broadcast time is irrelevant, otherwise you will be starting a campaign to ensure that TA only reflects what happens at precisely 1902 for 13 minutes Sun-Fri.
What they can't get away with is impossibilities such as Jenny bringing soup (or whatever it was) to Alice in AmexI, when she was in SA. Not that her departure to SA appeared in Amex, but it preceded various other events in TA that did, and therefore contradiction occurred. -
Message 10
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
The events occurred in logical sequence within their own domains. They are only out of sequence if you try to cross-reference them using broadcast time. But broadcast time is irrelevant, otherwise you will be starting a campaign to ensure that TA only reflects what happens at precisely 1902 for 13 minutes Sun-Fri.Â
Salop - Unless ´óÏó´«Ã½ wants people to choose to listen to either TA or Amex, but not both; they are a single domain of Archery and need to follow in consecutive time order of events - unless the "Flashback" is to be introduced.
But between 14:00 and 14:30 today we had events AFTER Susan met Clive FIRST, and only LATER her being surprised by him. Which lacked dramatic suspense - once one had realised what was happening. Prior to realisation, I was just wondering who the woman speaking was, as it could not ber Susan.The episodes would have made sense in the opposite order. -
Message 11
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Friday, 7th October 2011
All of which could be avoided if the (worthwhile) AmEx SLs were simply incorporated into TA instead of pointless padding.
But we've been here before... -
Message 12
Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Much as though I think AmEx is greatly better this time round, I still don't see it as being in any way necessary and would prefer that the AmEx SLs had simply been part of TA.
However, AmEx is here, and for another 24 epsiodes it will remain here.
I don't think there is any issue whatsoever about time lines. The AmEx SL is consistent with its own timeline, and it would be quite unreasonable to expect AmEx to have all of its happenings in for example a Thursday episode taking place in the period from the end of Wednesday's TA (which is often late in the evening) to the beginning of Thursday's AmEx.
Similarly, the TA timeline is entirely internally consistent. The two need to be simultaneously independent of and consistent with, each other, and - unlike with the first AmEx - I think the team are managing it so far. If you listen to either show exclusively you are, this time, (a) not missing anything important, and (b) not hearing anything that is out of synch with "the other place". -
Message 13
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Musta - Amex is not "necessary". It is something the ´óÏó´«Ã½ has decided to do to get the R4X listener numbers up.
Scenes can happen in either on any day of the week. They need co-ordinate only when they overlap.
But your condition .<< (b) not hearing anything that is out of synch with "the other place". >> was NOT met when we heard Susan in TA discussing meeting Clive at mum's then AFTERWARDS that scene was broadcast in Amex.
With the current scheduling of Amex inbetween the rebroadcast of yesterday's TA and the first broadcast of today's there is no reason to have temporal discontinuities except in the omnibus/bendybus on Sundays. -
Message 14
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Friday, 7th October 2011
I found the timing OK - my first thought was `Susan sounds very calm ..' then I realised it was a flash-back. In fact the timing is a shoo-in in comparison with the timing of the previous TA/AmEx. We had to keep composing time lines and even then I think they lost a day somewhere .. or Jamie did .. or maybe that WAS realistic.
The thing I find difficult to believe (as another poster upthread said) is the difference between the confident Susan of AmEx and the scared Susan of TA ..
JPBS -
Message 15
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 7th October 2011
As my OH sees fit to talk during TA I missed that Susan had actually MET Clive. I thought she had simply heard that he was in village. It therefore seemed credible that she was in fear of him turning up, and perhaps being violent.
So very odd to discover that she had actually met him and stood up well to him. -
Message 16
Posted by Pat Shed (U4664057) on Friday, 7th October 2011
The thing I find difficult to believe (as another poster upthread said) is the difference between the confident Susan of AmEx and the scared Susan of TA ..Â
That's easy. When she's away from the Horrobins she hams up how terrible the Horrobins make her feel and how horribly awful it is in order to garner sympathy from others. When she's with them there's obviously not the need for such pretence, nor would it achieve anything. -
Message 17
Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Friday, 7th October 2011
JPBS - I don't have a problem with the "two" Susans, finding it easy to reconcile the idea of her finding inner strength when confronted with Clive's sudden appearance at her mother's, but then, later, once the shock (and consequences) had hit her, being scared.
OI - I still consider that Wednesday & Thursday's TA were in perfect synch with Thursday's AmEx. When I heard Thursday's AmEx, and the Susan-being-confident bit, as a listener to both TA & AmEx I knew it came the morning after (in AmEx) we had heard Matt drop Clive off in Ambridge. That we had already had in TA the Wednesday evening episode in which we had heard Susan-being-scared afterwards was both irrelevant to AmEx and entirely consistent with with the chronology of and synchronicity between both shows.
And if one were a listener exclusively to only one of the two different shows, then there is no problem anyway - both, on their own, are entirely consistent (and much more so than with AmEx1). -
Message 18
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Yes - I suppose you are right about the two Susans - it didn't hit her till the evening do.
And I agree about timing - it took a few secs to realise what was going on. More annoying was that the notes I was making had to have an extra scribble to accompany the other scribbles .. I was glad Pat Clifton wrote that one up ..!
JPBS -
Message 19
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 7th October 2011
OI - I still consider that Wednesday & Thursday's TA were in perfect synch with Thursday's AmEx. When I heard Thursday's AmEx, and the Susan-being-confident bit, as a listener to both TA & AmEx I knew it came the morning after (in AmEx) we had heard Matt drop Clive off in Ambridge. That we had already had in TA the Wednesday evening episode in which we had heard Susan-being-scared afterwards was both irrelevant to AmEx and entirely consistent with with the chronology of and synchronicity between both shows.Â
Only if you are Humpty Dumpty..
To those using the ordinary meaning of the words chronology of and synchronicity; Each of TAQ and Amex are internally consistent but their interleaved totality had a backflash which was clearly not a plot device; just a mistake. -
Message 20
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Friday, 7th October 2011
No - I don't think it was a mistake but just an enlarged version of what we already knew
JPBS -
Message 21
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Maybe we've hit on the explanation for Clarrie's confusion over tenses? (See elsethread)
"The major problem is simply one of grammar, and the main work to consult in this matter is Dr. Dan Streetmentioner's 'Time Traveller's Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations'. It will tell you, for instance, how to describe something that was about to happen to you in the past before you avoided it by time-jumping forward two days in order to avoid it. The event will be described differently according to whether you are talking about it from the standpoint of your own natural time, from a time in the further future, or a time in the further past and is futher complicated by the possibility of conducting conversations while you are actually travelling from one time to another with the intention of becoming your own mother or father."
Douglas Adams: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe -
Message 22
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 7th October 2011
...with the cow that wanted to be eaten.
Now if BF had some of those.... -
Message 23
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
BunSoc - So they INTENDED to do the first flashback in Mustardland? And to set up the opening suspense as a damp squib because everyone knew what was happening?
I thin knot. -
Message 24
Posted by _ShropshireLad_ (U10844552) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
BunSoc - So they INTENDED to do the first flashback in Mustardland? And to set up the opening suspense as a damp squib because everyone knew what was happening?
I thin knot. Â
Course they did.
Amex features one set of events in Ambridge in order over one week split into two episodes.
TA features another in order over one week split into six.
What order you choose to listen to them is up to you, you can listen to two omnibuses if you want.
There was no damp sqibs caused by the way the episodes were interleaved, if you only listened to TA the first you would know about Clive was Susan talking about it.
If you listened to Amex, Clive's appearance chez Ivy would only have been a surprise to Susan, not to you because you had already heard Clive hitching a lift with Matt. -
Message 25
Posted by mike (U14258103) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
>Tayler - is it too much to ask that scenes in TA and Amex could appear in time order?<
This is a very silly idea, given that AmEx is just on Tuesdays and Thursdays. You have to allow AmEX to spread a bit to allow for decent story telling. -
Message 26
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
Agreed - yes. It was deliberate. It was a bit like the radio version of
"He's behind you!!"
There was still tension
This is *NOT* IMHO like the situation between TA and the first AmEx where there was great confusion.
It took about 5secs to work out what had happened - Susan was calm so hadn't realised Clive was there.
JPBS -
Message 27
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
reply to mike:
>Tayler - is it too much to ask that scenes in TA and Amex could appear in time order?<
This is a very silly idea, given that AmEx is just on Tuesdays and Thursdays. You have to allow AmEX to spread a bit to allow for decent story telling.Â
No, you simply have to take some care to get scenes appearing in chronological order in appropriate episodes. Other scenes can go where they like. -
Message 28
Posted by mike (U14258103) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
You're missing the point. Traditional TA has always been "real time" (very occasionally going backwards or forwards a day). It was made clear from the start that AmEx would not do that, indeed to do so with a drama being broadcast just 2 days a week would be an absurdity/ place it in a completely unacceptable straitjacket.
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Message 29
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
Mike - what would have been wrong with deferring the TA scene set after Susan met Clive on Thursday's Amex to Thursday's TA?
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Message 30
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
what would have been wrong with deferring the TA scene set after Susan met Clive on Thursday's Amex to Thursday's TA? Or (again!) concentrating on producing *one* decent programme rather than splitting resources? Why sacrifice quality in TA for the sake of R4X's audience?
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Message 31
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
Or (again!) concentrating on producing *one* decent programme rather than splitting resources? Why sacrifice quality in TA for the sake of R4X's audience?Â
As ´óÏó´«Ã½ are economising I suspect that Amex is very good for TA as a whole; stopping them losing resources.
I welcome the extra episodes. Can't understand why people get upset over them. -
Message 32
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
I welcome the extra episodes. Can't understand why people get upset over them. Not my place to speak for others, but there's been some disquiet over continuity and timeline issues. Doesn't particularly worry me, but some posters seem to get exercised over it.
-
Message 33
Posted by JustJanie - Fairweather Strider (U10822512) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
I'm enjoying this season of AmEx. The last one got both absurd and boring at the same time, dunno now, but this one is promising.
I didn't at all mind the flashback of Susan being surprised Clive after he had arrived in The Archers the previous day. It just felt like filling in the gaps, which is what AmEx said on the tin that it would do, or something of the sort. Or perhaps adding a bit of extra chutney rather than filling in anything missing as The Archers should stand alone obviously.
I wonder if AmEx could stand on its own? I doubt they have many non-TA listeners listening to it. -
Message 34
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
I wonder if AmEx could stand on its own? I doubt they have many non-TA listeners listening to it. Presumably the powers that be think not, or they would have launched a stand-alone programme in the first place.
-
Message 35
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
I think the idea was to get TA listeners over to R4X - and it has been highly successful.
Not that it will get me to buy one of these DAB wirelesses - but I will listen on my poota or TV.
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