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Clive - so just really nasty
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Message 1.聽
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
Just LAd, and he apparently he hasn't changed a jot. That might not surprise, but I was rather hoping for a bit of a twist. Oh well. Assuming he isn't reformed /at/ /all/ , there can be much speculation on what he will get up to in Ambridge. I wonder if the thought-bubbles will let us know if he let those cows out, or not?
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Message 2
Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
I felt quite sick listening to him wangling the rings out of poor old Bert. I didn't much like him ripping Matt off much, though Matt is a more deserving candidate ...
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Message 3
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
I was hoping the rings would turn out to be false gold. Ho hum.
Matt will get the better of Clive, though. Clive is living in cloud-cuckoo land to think otherwise. -
Message 4
Posted by Polly Tunnel (U1530077) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
I thought that Clive telling his Dad that inviting Kylie was Susan's idea and he didn't know why she was bothering was particularly nasty. He and Matt deserve each other and I'd really like them to end up sharing a cell at HM Felpersham.
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Message 5
Posted by Janluke (U14743200) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
Any idea of him being reformed seem to be slipping away
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Message 6
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
Yup. Oh well. what will he get up to, then, before he is locked away again?
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Message 7
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
PS, I was hoping (rather against hope) that this SL was going towards a resolution of the previous horrible Clive - but seems I was wrong. Still, interesting, the Clive/Matt SL. Who knows, there might be a twist, still?
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Message 8
Posted by Cogset (U14920926) on Thursday, 3rd November 2011
I hoped so too. Perhaps with a sympathetic Matt giving Clive a helping hand as he launches his new career.
Unfortunately....
I am already imagining clive's threats to torch the Dower House as he's taken down to the cells. Again.
Looking on the bright side, maybe James and Leonie will be visiting when he does... -
Message 9
Posted by Caro (U14909021) on Friday, 4th November 2011
I was hoping that the family would go down the burial route rather than cremation - an ideal opportunity for Cloive to do a bit of grave digging to nick the brass handles off Ivy's coffin. Sigh.If anyone's being robbed there, it was me.
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Message 10
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 4th November 2011
A-R - what do you think brass handles on coffins are made of?
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Message 11
Posted by Caro (U14909021) on Friday, 4th November 2011
If not solid brass, at least brassed metal - still worth a bob or two to a tat man.Scrap metal is fetching high prices.
Not even on the Co-Op basic coffin (helped a client arrange her Funeral Plan just last week and we looked at the fittings + lining - she chose ivory coloured fabric btw) are the coffin handles plastic : ) -
Message 12
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 4th November 2011
In reply to Archers_Roadie:
If not solid brass, at least brassed metal - still worth a bob or two to a tat man.Scrap metal is fetching high prices.
Not even on the Co-Op basic coffin (helped a client arrange her Funeral Plan just last week and we looked at the fittings + lining - she chose ivory coloured fabric btw) are the coffin handles plastic : )聽
Dream on
AFAIK Plastic are standard for cremations. -
Message 13
Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Saturday, 5th November 2011
Thoroughly nasty to us, yes. But the thought bubbles are doing a good job of portraying someone who thinks what he's doing is quite reasonable.
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Message 14
Posted by Dailyfix (U14602649) on Sunday, 6th November 2011
Thoroughly nasty to us, yes. But the thought bubbles are doing a good job of portraying someone who thinks what he's doing is quite reasonable.聽 I agree he is also shown as being quite thick. Clive clearly stands no chance against Matt. I wonder if Matt plans to use him for a while then shop him to the police thus gaining kudos for having rid the village of the threat. Matt is careful to keep hs hands clean so he can say "I wanted to give the guy a chance but then I found out he was involved with stolen goods so I just had to report it as I am running an honest business"
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Message 15
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Sunday, 6th November 2011
Given what we've learned on other threads about the complete implausibility of the parole conditions, I'd say any reasoned speculation as to the development of this SL will be way off the mark.
He'll probably turn out to be Henry's biological father鈥 -
Message 16
Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Wednesday, 9th November 2011
No, it is being made excessively clear that Clive has changed in no way except being just a teeny bit cannier about not getting caught.
On the point of stealing Ivy's money, fingering up her rings / bracelets. Liar, sponger, whinger and whiner, and made to look very silly by Neil.
What a wonderful role model Clive is to his nephews and nieces. -
Message 17
Posted by orson cartier (U2255827) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
Don鈥檛 know how long Ivy had stashed the money for and Clive might not be aware but if there鈥檚 a picture of Elgar on the 拢20 notes they are no longer legal tender..
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Message 18
Posted by toffee (U8026926) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
Well he clearly IS still a bad un, and as we hear his thoughts,, we hear his devious intentions every step of the way.
Wonder why they ARE revealing so much and not leaving open any chance he's really good deep down inside, cos he obviously isn't! -
Message 19
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
as we hear his thoughts,, we hear his devious intentions every step of the way.
Wonder why they ARE revealing so much and not leaving open any chance he's really good deep down inside聽 Because they don't credit listeners with the ability to think for themselves? -
Message 20
Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
OR, Joe, much more worryingly, not crediting the ACTOR with conveying all that in his voice - which he is.
Sets a horrible precedent. But boy, it sure tells us just how stupid they think the TA actors and the AmEx audiences are that they have now resorted to speech bubbles and virtual sub-titles, or like sign language inserts.
Patronising, and from the actors pov, I would have thought pretty damn insulting. -
Message 21
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
In reply to DracsM1:
OR, Joe, much more worryingly, not crediting the ACTOR with conveying all that in his voice - which he is.
Sets a horrible precedent. But boy, it sure tells us just how stupid they think the TA actors and the AmEx audiences are that they have now resorted to speech bubbles and virtual sub-titles, or like sign language inserts.
Patronising, and from the actors pov, I would have thought pretty damn insulting.聽
Dracs - the writers probably think you are
"Patronising, and pretty damn insulting"
It's a radio soap, not Geilgud giving his Macbeth. -
Message 22
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
not crediting the ACTOR with conveying all that in his voice - which he is.聽 With you there - Alex Jones is a superb actor. Just a shame the producers don't trust him - or the rest of the cast - to do their job.
Still, I suppose that's what you get for using producers with no proper experience in the field: When asked to join Ambridge Extra to produce the second series, we were excited and terrified in equal measure. We come from a documentary background, making factual programmes in our base in Birmingham. The world of The Archers, while just a few metres down the corridor, might as well have been in another universe.聽
Is there perhaps a reason that no /drama/ producer could be found for the project? It's a radio soap, not Geilgud giving his Macbeth.聽 So of course we can be fobbed off with any old rubbish. What a novel way to reward a loyal audience. -
Message 23
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
Just to be clear, the first part of post 22 was of course replying to Dracs in message 20. Sorry for any ambiguity.
Flea, flee! 鈽 -
Message 24
Posted by Polly Tunnel (U1530077) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
But boy, it sure tells us just how stupid they think the TA actors and the AmEx audiences are that they have now resorted to speech bubbles and virtual sub-titles, or like sign language inserts.聽
I don't agree. I think it's an interesting experiment to allow radio actors to convey some of the reactions that actors in a visual medium can convey with a look or physical jesture. Whether it works or not I'm still undecided but I applaud the production team for trying something new. -
Message 25
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
I think it's an interesting experiment to allow radio actors to convey some of the reactions that actors in a visual medium can convey with a look or physical jesture.聽 If an actor can't convey all that in the voice, theyve no business working in radio - or any other medium, with the possible exception of mime (which, as we found out last year, does /not/ make great radio). I applaud the production team for trying something new.聽 I don't think AmEx can lay claim to the invention of the dramatic aside or cartoon "thinks cloud".
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Message 26
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
joe - are you trying to be as reasonable as your ML namesake?
May not be new to the dramatic arts, but is new to Ambridge. -
Message 27
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
joe - are you trying to be as reasonable as your ML namesake?聽 Sorry - you've lost me there. "ML namesake"? Probably me just being slow, but I don't know who - or what - you mean. May not be new to the dramatic arts, but is new to Ambridge.聽 And removes any possible doubt as to the characters' motivation, hence destroying the drama. Remember the discussion over in DTA about whether Clive was trying to go straight? Completely impossible for AmEx listeners to join because they'd been shown unequivocably that he wasn't - but to reveal that would be the worst kind of spoiler (and /still/ would be, I presume - unless tonight's TA contained any major revelations, it's still a matter for speculation.)
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Message 28
Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Thursday, 10th November 2011
And a totally wrong impression of Neil Carter's role in this whole SL has grown - TA listeners do NOT know about the scene between Neil and Clive,plus the fact that Clive has indeed stolen the rings, and had huge contempt both for Ivy and especially Bert - all of which somewhat changes the whole balance of the drama we are hearing on AmEx. We know he stole them, we know what he thinks of Bert and Ivy, we know just how deep he is in a dodgy bit of business for Matt - for us there is no ambiguity at all.
This is worse than the Alice / Chaz erc SL in the first series: this SL is THE biggest new SL in TA for literally years. I repeat, I simply do not know what the TA team are playing at, but I am finding it annoying and it is showing real contempt for a loyal audience. -
Message 29
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Friday, 11th November 2011
this SL is THE biggest new SL in TA for literally years. I repeat, I simply do not know what the TA team are playing at, but I am finding it annoying and it is showing real contempt for a loyal audience.聽 Absolutely. Matters of this import belong in the main programme, not used as bait to lure listeners to digital. The longer AmEx continues in this way, the more reason there is to pull it and merge the two programmes.
And before we get the howls of protest from those who seem to think such a suggestion is a violation of their human rights, I would put one question to them: Would you /really/ enjoy this SL any less if it were played out in TA rather than the (ostensibly) separate AmEx?
As I've suggested elsewhere, if R4X wants to tempt TA listeners, why not dig into the programme archive? Maybe run related past SLs? While the current Clive SL was playing out on R4, for example, R4X could run some of the back story. Or the Bridge Farm rebranding could be run in tandem with the Rise & Fall of Tom's Sausage Empire (oo-er, missus鈥) - I for one would /love/ to hear the episode where he reverted to the Tom Archer brand鈥 -
Message 30
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Friday, 11th November 2011
And before we get the howls of protest from those who seem to think such a suggestion is a violation of their human rights, I would put one question to them: Would you /really/ enjoy this SL any less if it were played out in TA rather than the (ostensibly) separate AmEx?聽
There would be howls of protest anyway in DtA. At the present time, I am rather enjoying reading a board that is, in the main, positive towards what is on offer at the moment. I don't bother following most of the threads in DtA. Carp, carp, carp. It is just boring. -
Message 31
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 11th November 2011
In reply to joe:
joe - are you trying to be as reasonable as your ML namesake? Sorry - you've lost me there. "ML namesake"? Probably me just being slow, but I don't know who - or what - you mean.聽
Joe Grundy!
Or does TA not count as ML? -
Message 32
Posted by joe (U13868420) on Friday, 11th November 2011
Oh right! I was racking (what's left of) my brain to think of another /poster/ called Joe!
Not sure about the TA/ML protocol - I /think/ ML refers specifically to the board and posters, not the programme. I could be wrong, though (it /does/ happen, albeit rarely鈥) -
Message 33
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Friday, 11th November 2011
ML is a board for 'The Archers'. The Bull is for people who wish to discuss things outside of the programme, but to refer to characters elsewhere on the board (if relevant to the thread) seems totally justified to my mind.
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Message 34
Posted by orson cartier (U2255827) on Friday, 11th November 2011
I agree .. about the board and the lack of sometime anxiety protest contagion and for me I also enjoy the no prior story baggage, everything is fair (ish) game aspect of stories in AE.
I like .. too, Bond movies stylee, having different writers and directors, experimenting with TA
My curiosity is still piqued as to why we haven鈥檛 heard 鈥淥ld Crawford鈥 think and enjoyed Matt鈥檚 鈥淭hink of that yourself did you?鈥 line to Clive, when we hear so much of what Clive is thinking and no amount of overhearing his thoughts has yet pointed me to what the outcome will be.
N.B. from Matt. Rule 1. I Do The Talking. -
Message 35
Posted by Dinah Shore (U14984316) on Friday, 11th November 2011
Dracs1, Clive has NOT stolen the rings.
He spoke to his dad, who said, of course you must have them.
Since Ivy is dead, they belong to Bert, who has now /given/ them to Clive.
It was mentioned on the Real Archers, Neil warned Clive off. -
Message 36
Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Friday, 11th November 2011
Clive has obtained them by deception. In effect that is stealing, whatever the legal definitions would say. If one had asked Ivy who should have her rings, I doubt that she would have preferred Clive above her husband, who after all gave them to her in the first place, and to whom they symbolised their commitment to each other.
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Message 37
Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Friday, 11th November 2011
No, he just bullied, blackmailed and cajoled his bewildered, distressed and largely without Dad to believe that his wife would have wanted them for Clive. Hmm. Not stealing?
Maybe not technically a theft, but in my book the actual method our Clive used was much, much nastier than merely lifting them out of that drawer. The implications for what he thinks of his dad, his mum, his family in private as opposed to how he reports those attitudes to the world are considerable. -
Message 38
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 11th November 2011
If Clive took them when he visited mum he stole them, as he did not have her permission.
And if he took them after the death he also stole them as they belonged to the deceased's estate and probate had not been granted. His father was not yet in a position to give them to him. -
Message 39
Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Friday, 11th November 2011
And it increasingly annoys me how imperfect and incomplete is the knowledge the TA-only listeners are getting of this monster.
In AmEx 1, the Alice SL was more or less discrete from anything happening in TA. It was just how on earth it was going to fit in when Alice returned to Ambridge. But THIS SL is happening day by day in BOTH formats, and the TA audience is being seriously short-changed.
The Matt / scrap metal scam is way, way over the line. If Matt is caught he's back in clink for a long time, as will be Clive, but I simply do not believe that someone like Matt would be so briefcasing naive as to trust a toe-rag like Clive. For G's sake, Matt was inside with scores of Clives for months. He is a canny, suspicious operator and to think that Clive has him on this deal is well beyond credibility. And even if Clive is caught doing this fake break-in, does Matt truly think that he wouldn't be grassed up by Clive?
Do you believe that? I don't. -
Message 40
Posted by Pahnda (U14681704) on Friday, 11th November 2011
I am a TA only listener but, also being a nosy car, I like to come over here and see what I'm missing. What I can't remember now is whether 'TA only' people know that Matt has got mixed up with Clive at all.
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Message 41
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Friday, 11th November 2011
In reply to Pahnda:
I am a TA only listener but, also being a nosy car, I like to come over here and see what I'm missing. What I can't remember now is whether 'TA only' people know that Matt has got mixed up with Clive at all.聽
They know Matt gave Cloive a lift and had a drink with him in the Bull. Dunno about later events what in what.
Pahnda - Go ooonnnn - click that purple blob top right then the AmEx green blob the LA. YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO. -
Message 42
Posted by Pahnda (U14681704) on Saturday, 12th November 2011
No, I really don't want to, I'm quite happy with the synopsis which JPBS does so well, must take ages and thank you.
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