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Domestic violence plot?
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
That scene where Lukas is ordering Kate around as if she's his staff, not his wife, is pretty ominous. Kate sounded cowed and nervous. Not like her bumptious self! But it's NOT a good change, whatever one thinks about Kate. This is not a marriage where Lukas treats his wife as an equal.
He's just done it again -- ordered her to get him another drink. He said please but it wasn't polite. -
Message 2
Posted by toriren (U14736767) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Why do I have this idea that Lucas WAS a gentle man, and very caring when we met him last? So, character transformations in AmEx too?
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Message 3
Posted by toffee (U8026926) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Why do I have this idea that Lucas WAS a gentle man, and very caring when we met him last? So, character transformations in AmEx too?Ìý
I just said that in another post, that they seem to have turned him into a tyrant for TAX, and after it's over he'll go back to being Kate's doormat, cos the impression I always got was what he does what she tells him and he's very meek and mild.
Clearly from his first words, they've turned him into a monster - by comparison- for this. -
Message 4
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Surely the PCmeter will not allow TWO bad black men?
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Message 5
Posted by toffee (U8026926) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Surely the PCmeter will not allow TWO bad black men? Ìý
And never mind Hayley and Vicky sounding the same on TA, all the South African men sound the same on here!
How long before they do something in Ambridge?! If they stay in SA for too long I'll stop listening. -
Message 6
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
How long before they do something in Ambridge?! If they stay in SA for too long I'll stop listening.Ìý
Give them time before you start moaning please? -
Message 7
Posted by Poorgrass (U12099742) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Maybe years of being married to Kate have turned him into a monster. Either that or she'd walk all over him. Personally I thought Kate was being her usual selfish self - her career before his, and no doubt when he puts his foot down she'll be off running back to Mummy dahling....
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Message 8
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
I have been saying for some time that we need a good incest s/l. Maybe wifebeating will have to do?
IIRC we last saw Lucas in UK with his wife's rich parents.
Now he is in his own household - where I suspect both SA men in general and black men in general are a little less equality minded that Englishmen.
Does Lucas have a small sjambok, for domestic use? -
Message 9
Posted by NewEssexWoman (U9776561) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Maybe years of being married to Kate have turned him into a monster. Either that or she'd walk all over him. Personally I thought Kate was being her usual selfish self - her career before his, and no doubt when he puts his foot down she'll be off running back to Mummy dahling....Ìý
Well, yes, Kate was concerned about her career, but why shouldn't sdhe be? Lucas only seems to be concerned about his and at least Kate has previously followed him from Cape Town to Jo'burg so I see no reason whatsoever that she should be reluctant to move yet again.
Or is it only the bloke's career that counts for anything? -
Message 10
Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Kate was also thinking about the lives of their two children, which Lucas didn't seem to be. It was entirely about him, as far as I could see, and he was king in that household. Phoebe had clearly learned how not to annoy him, that he wouldn't tolerate lateness, that he expected Kate to run around after him, and that he has a likling for the drink.
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Message 11
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
I was amazed by how meek Kate is with Lucas. What a transformation of character as we know it!
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Message 12
Posted by NewEssexWoman (U9776561) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Whoops, that didn't make sense at all! The penultimate sentence should have ended:-
... so I see no reason whatsoever that she shouldN'T be reluctant to move yet again.
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Message 13
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Well, yes, Kate was concerned about her career, but why shouldn't sdhe be? Lucas only seems to be concerned about his and at least Kate has previously followed him from Cape Town to Jo'burg so I see no reason whatsoever that she shouldn't be reluctant to move yet again.
Or is it only the bloke's career that counts for anything?Ìý
Actually in terms of maintaining their lifestyle only Lucas HAS a career. I doubt if Kate earns more than pin money.
And if the breadwinner needs to move it is perfectly reasonable that the family should follow. -
Message 14
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
That is how Lucas sees it, certainly. In normal circumstances, it would be better to take time to discuss the possibility with the spouse, though. The way he was behaving, he was laying down the line, and giving no thought to Kate or the children. I had an (ex) bil like that.
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Message 15
Posted by Malahide (U14258229) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
I was amazed by how meek Kate is with Lucas. What a transformation of character as we know it! Ìý Well it's certainly a surprising turnaround for us listeners, but IIRC there were one or two hints of a less-than-happy marriage between Kate and Lucas during the time she was staying with Brian and Jenny.
So now we're going to find out what's really been happening and it it'll be interesting to see how much information Phoebe will take back to Ambridge - *if* she goes back. I'm already wondering if she will be swept along with Lucas's plan to move to Durban and doesn't go back to England at all.
I'm enjoying being so far away from Ambridge with this series. And I believe we're going to New Zealand with Kenton and Jolene too - good for Amex. -
Message 16
Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
Yes, there were definitely many hints previously about problems within the marriage. Can Kate be two different characters at one (the feisty and the meek)?. I suppose she (and anyone) /can/ behave differently in different circumstances. In Ambridge, she knows she can twist Jenny and Brian and Roy and Hayley around her little finger.
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Message 17
Posted by Poorgrass (U12099742) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
One thing that I would give the scriptwriters credit for - at least they didn't have some overoptimistic politically correct view of the "rainbow nation" and hinted at the violent and dangerous reality. I still think it's only a matter of time before Kate comes running back to mummy dearest.
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Message 18
Posted by Anonymous (U14994586) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
One thing that I would give the scriptwriters credit for - at least they didn't have some overoptimistic politically correct view of the "rainbow nation" and hinted at the violent and dangerous reality. I still think it's only a matter of time before Kate comes running back to mummy dearest.Ìý Maybe that's what's going to happen in the regular series? Kate is gonna be running back to her family and bringing Phoebe with her?
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Message 19
Posted by Poorgrass (U12099742) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
And demanding a cottage (just like Alice has - it's only fair!!!)
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Message 20
Posted by Malahide (U14258229) on Tuesday, 3rd July 2012
>Maybe that's what's going to happen in the regular series? Kate is gonna be running back to her family and bringing Phoebe with her?<
Do you think she'd bring all the children? Thus boosting Ambridge's multiculturalism into the bargain. -
Message 21
Posted by toriren (U14736767) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
I think she may already have one - wasn't she given one at the same time as Alice? I assume that it's being used as holiday accommodation.
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Message 22
Posted by Tellmeboutit (U14478835) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
I didn't enjoy the episode, but it did seem better written than recent TA efforts; also I couldn't tell whether some characters were white or black South Africans- not that it matters particularly of course. Will give it time.
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Message 23
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
In reply to Poorgrass:
And demanding a cottage (just like Alice has - it's only fair!!!)Ìý
Indeed. She has already got one.
I have long asserted that the income from letting it out pays maintenance to Roy for Pebble.
.
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Message 24
Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
I couldn't tell the African males apart. The mugger could have been Milton, and was there a third young male who Phoebe talked to first in the mall? I wan't at all sure.
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Message 25
Posted by Anonymous (U14994586) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
I couldn't tell the African males apart. The mugger could have been Milton, and was there a third young male who Phoebe talked to first in the mall? I wan't at all sure.Ìý I could tell them apart.
Milton had a rougher, more masculine voice than the man harassing Phoebe, who had a very sing-song voice that he might use to lull people in to a false sense of security.
Also, if they were different races, their accents would be very different.
I suppose I have the added advantage of having come from South Africa. -
Message 26
Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
But were there three younger men? One hassling Phoebe at the mall, Milton, and then the potential mugger? Or were the first and last ones the same?
I've lost the will to live with this. I don't really care! -
Message 27
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
In reply to Lakey_Hill:
But were there three younger men? One hassling Phoebe at the mall, Milton, and then the potential mugger? Or were the first and last ones the same?Ìý
Yes - He made that clear at the start of the second meeting.
Maybe thay walk to and from the Mall in daytime? Kate and Pebble seemed to run home from wherever they were shopping. -
Message 28
Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
Kate and Phoebe ran because they were going to be late, and Lucas would be cross. As far as I could tell, anyway - I'm starting to wonder if I understood any of it correctly!
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Message 29
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
In reply to Lakey_Hill:
Kate and Phoebe ran because they were going to be late, and Lucas would be cross. As far as I could tell, anyway - I'm starting to wonder if I understood any of it correctly!Ìý
Yes - I think they live in trendy boho Melville which is probably safe to walk around by day. -
Message 30
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Wednesday, 4th July 2012
Indeed if you google "is it safe to walk around in Melville?" the answer seems to be "Yes, even at night" Though not clear if this applies to 14yo white girls on their own on suburban streets.
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Message 31
Posted by flameofthewest (U14483084) on Thursday, 5th July 2012
Well, yes, Kate was concerned about her career, but why shouldn't sdhe be? Lucas only seems to be concerned about hisÌý
If Lucas isn't concerned about Kate's career, why did he agree to her spending a year studying in England, while he and his parents cared for their two children? -
Message 32
Posted by thyme (U205986) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
Well, yes, Kate was concerned about her career, but why shouldn't sdhe be? Lucas only seems to be concerned about hisÌý
If Lucas isn't concerned about Kate's career, why did he agree to her spending a year studying in England, while he and his parents cared for their two children?
Ìý Does Kate have a career as such? According to Who's who. she is a voluntary worker at an AIDS orphanage. Highly commendable. Perhaps there are similar organisations near Durban which would be happy to have unpaid volunteers assisting them. There is also the university in Durban so she could transfer and carry on with her studies (non Johannes related).
Nolly & Sipho, being 10 & 5, should be able to slot into new school without too much trauma (apart from their mother). -
Message 33
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
Kate seems to be involved in a "Project".
Not sure if we know details.
"Who's Who" is a long long way from being a current record - a chocolate teapot of reference. -
Message 34
Posted by Poorgrass (U12099742) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
I don't know, but I am willing to bet that it doesn't pay her enough money to keep herself in the manner to which she is accustomed, let alone support her children. Lukas seems to be the principal wage earner, and that's why his career should come first. She's trying to have it both ways - she wants a subsidized existence where she can do her "meaningful" good works (and bonk her coworker) and still have all the material wealth, yet she doesn't want the hassle of having to move to follow her breadwinner's career. I don't think she'd last long if she had to live like many genuine aid workers and make sacrifices in her own living standards to help others.
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Message 35
Posted by PollyGlot (U4652497) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
But I thought Johannesburg was 'where it all happened' whether 'it' is pleasant or not. So wouldn't Lucas be better off where he is? And even if he wants to work in Durban, can't he sent in his reports by e-mail attachment? If his reports are irrelevant in Durban, the paper he wants to work for must be very parochial.
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Message 36
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
In reply to PollyGlot:
But I thought Johannesburg was 'where it all happened' whether 'it' is pleasant or not. So wouldn't Lucas be better off where he is? .Ìý
He will be the boss in Durban. In Jo'burg he is one of many.
And even if he wants to work in Durban, can't he sent in his reports by e-mail attachment?Ìý
Not sure what this means, but papers need correspondents on the ground. They all file electronically, whether from the next office or the other side of the globe. -
Message 37
Posted by PollyGlot (U4652497) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
Yes of course, he will be the boss. I listened to the first epi and found it most unpleasant. I don't think I'll listen any more.
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Message 38
Posted by Dinah Shore (U14984316) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
If Lucas isn't concerned about Kate's career, why did he agree to her spending a year studying in England, while he and his parents cared for their two children?Ìý I don't know that he /did/ agree. They barely spoke, Kate didn't ever have news of him, therewas nosign of her missing him.
Brian paid for Kate's flights, her fees, books, sustenance, living expenses and her meaningless course. Not Lucas. -
Message 39
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Saturday, 7th July 2012
In reply to PollyGlot:
Yes of course, he will be the boss. I listened to the first epi and found it most unpleasant. I don't think I'll listen any more.Ìý
Polly listen to epi 2. Lucas is not so aggressive; more concerned.
And there are interesting developments! -
Message 40
Posted by PollyGlot (U4652497) on Sunday, 8th July 2012
OI - Oh dear, another slurp SL. But where was the slurp location? I thought they were somewhere pretty public.
Lucas doesn't seem to have a great deal of self-confidence and needs to have his ego stroked. I can also imagine that it is impossible to have a discussion with him. He probably flies into a rage very easily and always has to be right. Tiresome.
Yet it does indeed seem that he is quite concerned about Phoebe and wants to do the best for his children and step-child. I wonder why Kate is so laid back. She's lived in SA long enough to realise what the dangers are to a young girl swanning around on her own. Having said that, I'm only going on what MBers have said about Johannesburg.
I also thought, when lisening that Kate too had a responsible job, although it's voluntary. And yet, is this really the case or was Johan just trying to get inside her knickers and was therefore just buttering her up? -
Message 41
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 8th July 2012
In reply to PollyGlot:
OI - Oh dear, another slurp SL. But where was the slurp location? I thought they were somewhere pretty public.Ìý
Don't think it was made clear, but I took it to be a bedroom!
I also thought, when lisening that Kate too had a responsible job, although it's voluntary. And yet, is this really the case or was Johan just trying to get inside her knickers and was therefore just buttering her up?Ìý
I think the job is genuine - and perhaps also paid at least a little. I think Johann likes her for her personality as well as what's next to the best thing there is.
Lucas doesn't seem to have a great deal of self-confidence and needs to have his ego stroked. I can also imagine that it is impossible to have a discussion with him. He probably flies into a rage very easily and always has to be right. Tiresome.Ìý
Whereas Johann's ego needs no stroking, leaving Kate free to attend to other parts?
Yet it does indeed seem that he is quite concerned about Phoebe and wants to do the best for his children and step-child. I wonder why Kate is so laid back. She's lived in SA long enough to realise what the dangers are to a young girl swanning around on her own. Having said that, I'm only going on what MBers have said about Johannesburg.Ìý
I think Lucas is OK - just a bit stressed at Epi 1.
I think it possible to overstate the dangers of SA, and probably safe enough for groups of youngsters to holiday together. And of course they would not worry about sex for 14 year old girls. -
Message 42
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Monday, 9th July 2012
Maybe years of being married to Kate have turned him into a monster. Either that or she'd walk all over him. Personally I thought Kate was being her usual selfish self - her career before his, and no doubt when he puts his foot down she'll be off running back to Mummy dahling....Ìý
Gosh, I wasn't aware that a woman isn't permitted to care about her career, nor that a wife being annoying is a good reason (or even a sufficient reason) for treating her like a servant.
Of course it's always the woman's fault.
Do husbands still put their feet down, and expect to be obeyed without discussion? Gosh, no wonder divorce rates are so high if that's the case. Women are human beings you know, and shouldn't expect or tolerate having feet put down on their heads or hearts. -
Message 43
Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Monday, 9th July 2012
Can Kate be two different characters at one (the feisty and the meek)?.Ìý
I gather that this *can* be a symptom of a woman in an abusive domestic relationship: she seems perfectly fine to the outside world (and even to other family) but within the home, she is cowed.
Look, I find Kate obnoxious & selfish, but just because she is irritating doesn't mean she "deserves" to be treated without respect or consideration by her husband. -
Message 44
Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Monday, 9th July 2012
So far we've had one episode with Lucas being a bit boorish** and one of him showing concern.
This does not yet make him a spousal abuser.
** Unlike Kate who is feeling a boerish bit. -
Message 45
Posted by cat_modern (U12813503) on Tuesday, 10th July 2012
I remember Lukas.
In all his previous incarnations he was kind and patient. Now, suddenly he's borderline abusive simply to create a potential 'justification' for Kate's infidelity that we can all debate.
I refuse to be drawn. It's just another crude, sensationalist character transplant.
Bring back the old Lukas and let Kate's infidelity stand alone. We're grown ups, we can cope! -
Message 46
Posted by Froginasock (U14272821) on Tuesday, 10th July 2012
Kate works in an AIDS orphanage?
And I still detest her - that's quite a feat on her part. -
Message 47
Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Tuesday, 10th July 2012
Before today I was about to post - maybe Kate *won't* discuss moving to Durban - and sure enough today we found out she wouldn't.
But really if Lucas is sliding down the ladder at his radio station - just hoping he won't be pushed off altogether there really is no option.
If he is earning and keeps them and she is earning very little - they have to go for the sake of his career. Its what would happen here never mind SA. Kate has *no idea* what it is to live in the real world ..
JPBS -
Message 48
Posted by Charlotte (U11793635) on Wednesday, 11th July 2012
This is the first time I've listened to Ambridge Extra, and I'm rather enjoying it. I'm not sure about domestic violence, they just sounded like a couple not getting on too well to me. Lukas is black South African, so in my limited experience he's unlikely to be as much of a "new man" as one might hope to find in the UK. His career would be deemed more important anyway, even if Kate's was well paid. She could almost certainly find something very similar in Durban. I don't think any husband would be too pleased at such a complete lack of interest in a possible career upgrade, or at such stupidity with regard to Phoebe's safety.
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Message 49
Posted by aquaticDougal (U3480367) on Wednesday, 11th July 2012
Lucas hitting her, hands the "right" to her, which would be a let down.
Kate's lover seems to have history & a long list of conquests, so maybe this will be about Kate committing, leaving Lucas & then being left high & dry & having to flee back to Ambridge, with only Phoeebs.
Now
JD's positive gloss on that outcome would be worth hearing!
Just hope Phoeebs isn't the victim here, she's spoilt & dumb but not actually horrible..... close shave brings her to her senses I hope, nothing worse. -
Message 50
Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Wednesday, 11th July 2012
It's possible to overstate the dangers of SA, but they wouldn't worry about sex for 14 year old girls? There seems to be a basic inconsistency there! My relatives didn't want me travelling anywhere on my own as an adult in my 30s, let alone as a 14 year old girl. As a single female, I was vulnerable, end of story. I did, but not without incident.
It is very possible to underestimate the dangers of SA.
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