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That teenage thing

• Message 1.Ìý

  Posted by martine_s (U1482146) on Wednesday, 19th October 2005

  Interesting and frightening item on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ website:
  "Is it that 'teenage thing' of boys not being prepared to speak English, let alone French or German" asks David Bell, chief inspector of schools, about the gender gap in languages.
  What is it with boys?

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by coolje (U2256285) on Wednesday, 19th October 2005

  My friend's son is in SERIOUS TROUBLE.
  
  Friend works on the continent a lot, and fervently wishes he'd paid more attention to his French lessons at school.
  
  His son has just got back from a school trip to France for a week or so. He was supposed to write a list of ten observations about the way of life in France.
  
  The ones he wrote were all very rude. French girls look like turtles. French food smells of underpants. Goodness knows what.
  
  Anyway: he's in serious trouble, but hopping with indignation because he claims that *all* the boys in the class wrote such things. My friend is not satisfied, and is going to go and see the French teacher to find out if that's really true, and if it is, why are they allowed to get away with it.
  

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• Message 3

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  Posted by Dragonfly (U2223700) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  Hello, Martine. Do French boys have problems with speaking other languages, or even their own, as David Bell suggests is the case in the UK? I think a lot of it is self-consciousness. I remember that when I started learning French at the ridiculously advanced age of 11, there was a great deal of embarrassment in the class which got in the way of seriously learning how to pronounce the words properly - and that was in a class of girls. Many girls thought it sounded either silly or pretentious, in an odd sort of way, to make the correct vowel sounds, to eliminate diphthongs, to pronounce the 'r' sound etc etc. It didn't help, either, that there is a long (and shameful) tradition in the UK of laughing at foreigners' funny accents - and, of course, at other regional accents, or 'posh' accents.
  
  The answer is surely to start learning other languages much, much earlier, before that extreme self-consciousness sets in, as I believe every other European country does. It would also be more effective, as the human brain is more receptive to language learning early in childhood.
  
  

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  Posted by martine_s (U1482146) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  Afternoon Libellule.
  In my experience, boys have been just as eager to perform well as girls, but that may be because I teach the cream of the crop and I have the opportunity to listen to them one on one. Also those who have good accents do not mind at all letting others listen to their vowels...
  When I began teaching though, I was another kettle of fish. It was at a vocational school and I can't say boys were any worse than girls.
  What struck me in this item is also that boys won't speak English either. And this seems to me very ominous. It shows how much boys are alienated from the whole process of socialisation and culture that goes on at school. Coolje's story is indeed a bit chilling. Sorry Coolje, I hadn't spotted your answer before. Now I wonder why that is ...

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• Message 5

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  Posted by martine_s (U1482146) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  His son has just got back from a school trip to France for a week or so. He was supposed to write a list of ten observations about the way of life in France.
  
  The ones he wrote were all very rude. French girls look like turtles. French food smells of underpants. Goodness knows what.
  
  Anyway: he's in serious trouble, but hopping with indignation because he claims that *all* the boys in the class wrote such things. My friend is not satisfied, and is going to go and see the French teacher to find out if that's really true, and if it is, why are they allowed to get away with it.
  Ìý
  
  Sorry I didn't see this before coolje (drat those...) : it is appalling. Now that teacher's job, I wouldn't like to have either.
  
  Of course I have to acknowledge that the appeal of English is all-essential.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by cat_lady (U2262333) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  Coolje, I think someone may be missing the point here. The issue to be addressed with those boys is firstly xenophobia and insularity; once that is 'sorted', THEN maybe their attitude to learning a new language will change. I know, though - easier said than done

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• Message 7

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  Posted by Katy Tulip (U238199) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  I /was/ going to mention that Bulb 1's heart's desire at the moment was kewl white shoes like wot all his mates have, but never mind. His Dad is ok with this - it's the copious use of deo, gel, and hairspray which worries him....
  
  Katy

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• Message 8

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  Posted by Veronica Speedwell (U2233349) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  Interesting and frightening item on the ´óÏó´«Ã½ website:
  "Is it that 'teenage thing' of boys not being prepared to speak English, let alone French or German" asks David Bell, chief inspector of schools, about the gender gap in languages.
  What is it with boys?Ìý
  
  I find my boys to be as clever as my girls but in very different ways. My boys don't care for languages much, even English is reduced to monosyllabic grunts. Girls pick up languages easily but are hopeless in science or maths, where their brothers do very well. I gather this is the usual pattern , but with a great many exceptions. And alot of them out grow this as well.

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Tinsnail_Racer (U1486682) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  I learnt 3 languages at school (4 if you include a year or two of basic Latin) and the classes in all of them were fairly evenly split between boys and girls; more girls than boys in the Italian class, but there were only 8 of us.......
  
  It could be down to the pro/anti EU debate currently going on, also that there seems to be a bit more English nationalism going on at the moment (certainly, following the rugby world cup there were lots of cars flying little flags), I'm not sure.
  
  Scotland seems to see itself as closer to Europe than England, so I think that learning languages isn't such an uncool thing to do as it may be elsewhere; also with the Edinburgh Festival and so on, there are plenty of opportunities for teenagers to talk to (or chat up!) foreign teenagers and having a language helps.

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• Message 10

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  Posted by barefootstudent (U2261087) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  I think its more an attitude "well they all speak English anyway" and a larger problem that primary schools are not doing enough to get kids onto languages and things young enough. Britain has always been known across the Continent for the fact that compared with our neighbours and their use of our language, we have always been shoddy at theirs. Part of it is of course that English, whilst not the most widely spoken 1st language, its most peoples second language, making it global. With the influence of America as well, it is going to be harder in the future to get young people learning foreign languages.

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• Message 11

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  Posted by Veronica Speedwell (U2233349) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  "With the influence of America as well, it is going to be harder in the future to get young people learning foreign languages"
  
  It might be the American influence, but alot of American cities are supposed to be bi-lingual. I know New York is certainly multi-lingual, newspapers and hoardings and radio stations broadcasting in all sorts of languages. I think they are all taught additional ones in secondary school , though this might only be in Canada.
  
  I think it might be more of a class thing- white middle class rural-based people may be a bit less exposed to other languages on a daily basis than children from urban comprehensives , though the better off you are the more holidays abroad you are likely to have, which makes my theory a bit carp, actually.

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