This discussion has been closed.
Posted by Spartacus (U2261983) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
At the risk of a serious telling off from some of you users of the old boards, I would like to say as someone who
has never used or read them and joined in this format, that I am getting completely fed up with all the whingeing that seems to go on. It is very off-putting for new people who don't know what you are rabbitting on about and you are shooting yourselves in the foot continually griping. You appear to be on a mission to stifle your own debates by having competitions to see who can moan about the boards first in a thread . Why?
You are all extremely intelligent,articulate people with interesting and diverse views. I appreciate that some of you are finding things a little difficult, but can I respectfully ask (now that I have upset eveyone) that you GIVE IT A REST!!!
well said.
Enough is really enough on the subject I think.
We're all pretty aware of the feelings of posters one way or another by now.
It really is time to zip it and get on with what we do best in here.
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:12:11 GMT, In reply to: wombatsnose [
Wombat, if I may be so familiar, there is a massive pink helmet for you to wear (we wear pink hats when indicating we disagree with each other but I think you need a helmet) and I've made room in the trench for you. Supply lines open and manned by Dusters et al. Sharpers might be joining you in the trench, and if so, all your catering woes will fly away. Indeed, many may actually join you to partake.
Personal pink pith-helmet on.
, in reply to message 1.
Posted by andrewpearce007 (U2244552) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Ìý
Hey, have you ever read any of my posts?
, in reply to message 1.
Posted by barefoot choirmistress (Grade 1 listed status at present but soon to be partly demolished. The wrecking ball has started its upward swing, ready to demolish my name) (U2220849) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Wombat, if I may call you that, I don't disagree with your point but we've had the best part of 24 hours without any discussions about the new format and it seems rather a shame to drag it up again.
Unless there's something around which I've missed?
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:21:06 GMT, In reply to: discalced spartacus [
In DtA, BD.
, in reply to message 6.
Posted by barefoot choirmistress (Grade 1 listed status at present but soon to be partly demolished. The wrecking ball has started its upward swing, ready to demolish my name) (U2220849) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
well why post in the Bull then?
, in reply to message 4.
Posted by BasiainBrooklyn (U505001) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Ìý
Hey, have you ever read any of my posts?Ìý
Snork.
Sir,you are too modest.
Well,alright then...
Wombatsnose, I agree - in fact I started a thread on the same theme a week or so ago.
As I haven't whinged yet, I feel I am, however, entitled to one go.
The one change that I would object to is the modding. It seems to be more energetic than before, where we relied mainly on catpeeing, so it is not "interactive" as claimed. And there have been a few posts which suggest it's being modded by Mr Keri, whereas before he only hosted the MBs. If this is indeed so, then I think this is a change for the worse too.
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:24:53 GMT, In reply to: discalced spartacus [
Because Keri, I think, wanted all new board discussions over here and DtA became for a time, the only place that was free of the NML discussions. The DtA discussion was asked to move over to TB by Keri, as well.
(Getting as tired of all this as the next donkey, while agreeing that everyone has a right to post what they like as often as they like, but very sad that Eilis has left and Sarah has made noises about leaving.)
, in reply to message 10.
Posted by barefoot choirmistress (Grade 1 listed status at present but soon to be partly demolished. The wrecking ball has started its upward swing, ready to demolish my name) (U2220849) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
I see. It was jolly peaceful in here today and yesterday evening and it seems a shame to start it all up again.
BD
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:44:27 GMT, In reply to: discalced spartacus [
I agree. Last night was fun, wasn't it! Even though the confusion, alas, drove the unwary off the boards (irene, we're ourselves again, come back!)
<quote user='andrewpearce007' userid='2244552'><quote user='wombatsnose' userid='2261983'>
Hey, have you ever read any of my posts?</quote>
Indeed I have, and I stand by my words.
, in reply to message 9.
Posted by Rhona D aka Meen Bonkers (U219830) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Hiya, OB, wrt Mr. K - as host he (like all the hosts on other boards) has always had the power to mod.
Not sure what you're referring to if you're objecting to his modding (all that I've been aware of is the removal of recipes in TVH, which was a copyright issue) but you do know that you can mail him directly, don't you? keri.davies@bbc.co.uk.
Rhona
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:56:20 GMT, In reply to: Meenister [
Rhona, over in DtA, we've all been sent to share the doghouse with Scruff, for speaking too much Franglais.
Hi Rhona,
If I remember correctly Mr K went out of his way several times to point out that he, as the board's host, wasn't responsible for the modding, that it was in fact outsourced I think he said. I remeber one regulat poster, can't remeber who, havingareal post-colonial go at the peoppe "in India" she suspected of doing the modding! Didn't somebody go on Feedback and plead for more sensitive, MB-specific modding? I think it was one of the lawyers on the MB. It was at the time that a so-called troll was getting stick.
Contacting Mr Keri directly, is I know something which happens and, admittedly, can be of great value for the MBers. Which is one of the reasons I think it would be better if the modding were kept to an absolute minimum and done by someone anonymous whose decisons are final and doesn't get talked back to.
PS Bet you've got lovely weather in Bavaria. Any snow yet?
I'm whispering here, but,you know, Wombatsnose I have to agree with you.
Well done for speaking out.
, in reply to message 1.
Posted by Slightly-Foxed of that Elk (rational or irrational) Laird of Phelps (one foot over) and Keeper of the Privy Seal (U995234) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
I think most people who regret the passing of the old boards do so because they felt it was more conducive to the wit intelligence and articulateness etc which you seem to admire about the people who post here and that this new format has a tendency towards stifling those very qualities.
Also that they were short changed by the ´óÏó´«Ã½ and their subsequent suggestions and questions have been ignored. Nobody likes to feel ignored, and some people (inc me) have been very vocal about it. If nobody ever whinged about anything that was wrong, nothing would ever get changed for the better.
However - having also had the standard form letter reply to my two emails, from Richard Doodad at the Beeb, which totally fails to address any of the real issues (and I feel there *are* still some real issues about data protection and security, about what the ´óÏó´«Ã½ promised as opposed to what it has delivered, and issues around functionality) I think there's little to be gained by continuing the debate actually on this board, since no one at the ´óÏó´«Ã½ is listening, and the presence here of any of their token techies has been withdrawn anyway,probably because people were asking questions they weren't empowered to answer, and therefore those who *do* find this format easy, or who came to these boards recently and don't know what the fuss is about, might as well carry on making the best out of what is, now, just another message board.
Couldn't agree more, SF. Beautifully put.
As you know, I bitterly resent the change simply because it has DENIED everyone their semantic space. You can't at one and the same time admire how articulate people are and be - at best - complicit with the very thing that is denying them their articulacy. And I bitterly resent the voices that tell us to "stop whingeing". If you don't like the whingeing, get the hell out. The old ML was where people WENT to whinge - along with all the other things like celebrate, commiserate, advise, ask advice, laugh, cry, flirt, swap recipes, share lunch, get drunk, squabble, kiss and make up. We did all that stuff and more, and better, and now it's bloody GONE because some technocrats saw fit to demolish it. I'm really sad about it and I want to share that sadness with my friends. And if I can't share that sadness, then I'm sorry but I feel ROBBED of something really, really important in my life. And that makes this Just Another Message Board. Who needs it?
No, I'm not a saddo. I'm ANGRY. And daily I get more and more annoyed about this stuff, not less and less. I don't want to roll over and lie down. Why should I?
Am
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:24:53 GMT, In reply to: discalced spartacus [
(Getting as tired of all this as the next donkey, while agreeing that everyone has a right to post what they like as often as they like, but very sad that Eilis has left and Sarah has made noises about leaving.)Ìý
Wot? Eilis has left? When? I thought she was pro- the new board format. Did she get fed up with the moaning, or has she changed her mind?
Hope you haven't gone for good, Eilis. And Sharpers - stay put.
Claribel
Let’s see if you agree that I’ve got this right so far…..
Wombmats..disagrees with people disagreeing
M@ agrees with wombat disagreeing
E.Yore disagrees with those disagreeing with those who disagree but agrees last night was fun (shame I missed it) and agrees it was a shame Eilis disagreed and left (OH I didn’t know that – I agree)
AP007 disagrees with those who say he is intelligent but BasiaZ disagrees with AP about this
Discaled spartagus doesn’t disagree with wombat
Oldbloke2 agrees with Wombat but thinks he should be allowed to disagree once
Aminam couldn’t agree more with SF
Do you all agree ?
, in reply to message 18.
Posted by Celtic Tiger (U2229153) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
I e-mailed Richard along the lines of Wombatsnose post to the effect that I knew he was being inundated by complaints about the new boards and that unfortunatley most of the people who would bother to contact him would be those who were complaining and that those of us who really like the new boards would tend not to bother - that's human nature. I also make some observations about which features of the new boards I particularly liked.
I got a reply which was anything but a "standard form letter". It was at least as long as my own e-mail and made some interesting observations in response to mine. So, in defence of Richard, he doesn't just send standard replies, although I suspect if he's getting lots of e-mails with the same complaints he is just sending the same reply to each. I'd do the same.
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:24:53 GMT, In reply to: discalced spartacus [
(Getting as tired of all this as the next donkey, while agreeing that everyone has a right to post what they like as often as they like, but very sad that Eilis has left and Sarah has made noises about leaving.)Ìý
Wot? Eilis has left? When? I thought she was pro- the new board format. Did she get fed up with the moaning, or has she changed her mind?
Hope you haven't gone for good, Eilis. And Sharpers - stay put.
ClaribelÌý
Seconded - Eilis please come back and Sharpers please don't go. I missed whatever happened last night, but this place would not the same without you both.
Pippa x
, in reply to message 3.
Posted by The Famous But Disillusioned with the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Eccles (U219998) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Ìý
, in reply to message 3.
Posted by The Famous But Disillusioned with the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Eccles (U219998) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:12:11 GMT, In reply to: wombatsnose [
Personal pink pith-helmet on.Ìý
If I nicked your helmet, would I have taken the pith, E. Yore?
Roy
Ìý Ìý
, in reply to message 25.
Posted by The Famous But Disillusioned with the ´óÏó´«Ã½ Eccles (U219998) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Bad throat too, Mr Legs? Here, pour this half-galleon of Young's Best down your neck!
Roy
, in reply to message 21.
Posted by nesta vipers (U2256451) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
snorkadoodle-do suepet
(or putting it another way:
there are people here complaining they don`t like the new boards
there are people here complaining that people are complaining about the new boards
there are people who won`t come here because they don`t like the new boards
there are people complaining that there are people who don`t come here because they don`t like the new boards
there are people here who like the new boards but are complaining that they will leave if people who do not like them do not stop complaining
there are people who are complaining that people have left because they didn`t like the complaining
there are people here who enjoy complaining
there are people here who enjoy seeing others complaining
there are people here who enjoy seeing others complaining about others complaining
cheers norma
(better than spats IMO)
Bad throat too, Mr Legs? Here, pour this half-galleon of Young's Best down your neck!
Roy Ìý
cheers Roy!
[hic][burp]
snorkadoodle-do suepet
(or putting it another way:
there are people here complaining they don`t like the new boards
there are people here complaining that people are complaining about the new boards
there are people who won`t come here because they don`t like the new boards
there are people complaining that there are people who don`t come here because they don`t like the new boards
there are people here who like the new boards but are complaining that they will leave if people who do not like them do not stop complaining
there are people who are complaining that people have left because they didn`t like the complaining
there are people here who enjoy complaining
there are people here who enjoy seeing others complaining
there are people here who enjoy seeing others complaining about others complaining
cheers norma
(better than spats IMO)Ìý
SNORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the idea is catching on ....
let's all agree to differ!
the idea is catching on ....
let's all agree to differ!Ìý
I don't agree.
, in reply to message 19.
Posted by Kate McLaren etc (U2202067) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
Thanks, Am. My feelings precisely. I come here occasionally now to post a comment or read one, but not, certainly not, to do any of the things mentioned in your post...all of which (well most of which) were such lifesavers in the Olde Dayes. Thing is, there's a good chance that I wouldn't be here at all (still alive I mean) had it not been for the wonderful Olde Mustarde Lande. And I am quite glad I am.
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:19:18 GMT, In reply to: normanormal [
Hey Norma.. you forgot...
there are people here who don't like the new boards but are doing their best to make it a bit better where possible
jont
See, that's the trouble with not having time order -- people flounce and you don't even get to watch.....
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:42:03 GMT, In reply to: bunny [
Yes.. it's a rotten swizz, Bunny.
Hope you are well, btw.
jont
Yes, chiz, Jont.
I'm fine; hope you are doing ok yourself.
Bun x
Celtic Tiger, I think your message sums up succinctly how the whole process has been handled by the ´óÏó´«Ã½.
Those who are unhappy, and write to say so, receive a standard letter expressing platitudinous brush-offs.
Those who are happy receive a personal response.
What could be more indicative of the whole process? It shows in a nutshell how the ´óÏó´«Ã½ have made a show of listening and consultation (after the changes have actually been made, of course), when actually they have no intention of changing any decisions they have made, and are only really interested in engaging with those who are singing their tune. All the rest is just the Ten Point Plan for Managing Difficult Customers. (Make them feel they are being listened to, be polite, make them feel you understand their point of view, diffuse their irritation, encourage them to write to the manager, do what you were going to do anyway)
Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:47:46 GMT, In reply to: bunny [
Glad you're ok, Bunny.
I'm somewhat frazzled.. burning it at both ends.
But hey.. it keeps me off the streets.. and keeps my mind off other stuff.
Keep well.
jont
, in reply to message 22.
Posted by Service Unavailable (U2321132) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
<>
Would you share any of those observations with us?
, in reply to message 41.
Posted by Celtic Tiger (U2229153) on Tuesday, 1st November 2005
<>
Would you share any of those observations with us?Ìý
Unfortunately I have deleted both my own e-mail to Richard and the e-mail which I got in reply from the ´óÏó´«Ã½ so I cannot share any of the content with you. I can only say that I was impressed that someone, probably not Richard himself but maybe I am misjudging him here, had taken the trouble to construct a personal reply.
, in reply to message 39.
Posted by Slightly-Foxed of that Elk (rational or irrational) Laird of Phelps (one foot over) and Keeper of the Privy Seal (U995234) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
Celtic Tiger, I think your message sums up succinctly how the whole process has been handled by the ´óÏó´«Ã½.
Those who are unhappy, and write to say so, receive a standard letter expressing platitudinous brush-offs.
Those who are happy receive a personal response.
What could be more indicative of the whole process? It shows in a nutshell how the ´óÏó´«Ã½ have made a show of listening and consultation (after the changes have actually been made, of course), when actually they have no intention of changing any decisions they have made, and are only really interested in engaging with those who are singing their tune. Ìý
I couldn't agree more, apart from the bit about consultation, because there wasn't any!
, in reply to message 43.
Posted by Slightly-Foxed of that Elk (rational or irrational) Laird of Phelps (one foot over) and Keeper of the Privy Seal (U995234) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
Testing testing...
, in reply to message 44.
Posted by Slightly-Foxed of that Elk (rational or irrational) Laird of Phelps (one foot over) and Keeper of the Privy Seal (U995234) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
Well, it took 18 minutes for the moderators to decide that "testing testing" wasn't code for anything nasty in the "Big Aunty Beeb Book of Things You Cannot Say Volume II M-Z"
Ricycles, Bicycles, Tricycles, Test... as I used to say in my roadie days.
, in reply to message 39.
Posted by Achilles Grytpype-Thynne (U2328687) on Wednesday, 2nd November 2005
Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:12:19 GMT, In reply to: Memorable Name [
All the rest is just the Ten Point Plan for Managing Difficult Customers. (Make them feel they are being listened to, be polite, make them feel you understand their point of view, diffuse their irritation, encourage them to write to the manager, do what you were going to do anyway)
Ìý
Would you care to share the other four?
but very sad that Eilis has left and Sarah has made noises about leaving.)Ìý
I'm sorry to hear that. If anyone has off-board contact with Eilis, could you please send her Bonsie's regards?
Have hardly been able to get onto the boards since changeover so have missed nearly all of the discussion.
Wed, 02 Nov 2005 06:20:45 GMT, In reply to: Bonsie [
Bonsie
I'm taking the occasional look in here to see if things have returned to normal. I have been on the WoM board where the regulars have had the same difficulties as people had here but have maintained a sense of proportion and are endeavouring to get along with things.
I hope to see you around here sometime soon.
Eilis xx
Morning Eillis, nice to see you. I have been doing much the same ~ I have contributed a couple of times but quickly became lost in the mayo. I do go on PoV from time to time but not yet WoM ~ must give it a go! Oh for the mad vrivols of yesteryear!
Wed, 02 Nov 2005 06:20:45 GMT, In reply to: Bonsie [
Bonsie
I'm taking the occasional look in here to see if things have returned to normal. I have been on the WoM board where the regulars have had the same difficulties as people had here but have maintained a sense of proportion and are endeavouring to get along with things.
I hope to see you around here sometime soon.
Eilis xxÌý
Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:31:38 GMT, In reply to: Claribel [
<>
No Eilis has taken a board holiday, as many do from time to time. pj.
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