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Holiday dilemma
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Message 1.Â
Posted by welshteddy (U3680635) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
The 2 youngest tedlets have been looking forward to, and planning a holiday with a youth group for some months. It is for 3 days and is in February half term. I have realised this morning that the tedlets half term is a different week to everyone else's, as we live in a different county, and so they are at school when the trip is on.
I am horrified that I didn't notice the dates, and not sure what to do. They are 15 (Year 11 - therefore GCSE year) and 14 (Year 10).
What would you do? Let them go or not? -
Message 2
Posted by Pin o Chocolat (U2372386) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I would consider:
How up to date they are with their work;
How much school have they missed;
How valuable an experience it would be.
I would talk to the school and to them - are they going to be very bothered if they don't go?
Then I would try and let them go. -
Message 3
Posted by Kit Powlett Jones (U2673415) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Talk to your spouse? Weigh the pros and cons of stress of missing class vs stress of missing social bonding with peers?
Plus you sound like a good parent - try not to beat yourself up regarding the dates - think of all the times plans were not cocked up! -
Message 4
Posted by BrightYangThing (U14627705) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Oh dear WelshT. That happens here as well as we are close the county border.
My thoughts would be - if it is three weekdays off school , then it would be no go for me. Perhaps if it was a long weekend with only one day off school, discuss with tedlets and with school and make best choice.
Obviously an explanatory discussion between you all whatever. But I think may have to be put down to one of those 'life's little disappointments'.
Perhaps time for them to come up with something equally absorbing for themselves. -
Message 5
Posted by LindaLee (U2777941) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
The fact that you're so concerned about this shows that you're not parents who frequently take their children out of school for family holidays in term time. If the two tedlets are up-to-date with their work, revision etc I shouldn't think three days off would do any harm - they could use the regular half-term holiday for some extra work, if necessary?
If it's a eagerly-anticipated break that they've been planning for ages, it seems a shame that they should not go - and how much work would they do if they were sitting resentfully in a classroom while their youth-group friends were away?! -
Message 6
Posted by whitbyrose (U15069960) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
No way would I take children out of school for a holiday. The only time we took our 2 out was for their great grandmothers funeral and that was just one day. However I think everyone makes decisions about things for different reasons and if you aren't at the point on the continuum where you wouldn't take them out of school for ie holidays you might feel able to do it.
I can totally understand your upset though as it is such an easy mistake to make if you are near an authority boundary. A horrible situation as there isn't an alternative that will match the experience this would give them. I hope you can come to a decision that is ok for you all.
Gentle friendly hug for what is a difficult situation. -
Message 7
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I would consider:
How up to date they are with their work;
How much school have they missed;
How valuable an experience it would be.
I would talk to the school and to them - are they going to be very bothered if they don't go?
Then I would try and let them go. Â What Pin and others have said.
However, I think this means that you perhaps ought to have an academic year calendar as well as a Jan to Dec calendar so that similar mistakes can't happen in the future.
I hope the school realises how important it is to them and is willing to cooperate.
Good luck,
Dunlurkin -
Message 8
Posted by Kit Powlett Jones (U2673415) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
...or possibly compromise and let them go one day?
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Message 9
Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
In the Netherlands there are financial sanctions if your children are taken out of school during term time for 'no good reason'. Is that the case in the UK? I know my brother in law had a fine a few years ago when his daughter missed a few days of (primary) school because of some holiday dates that caused a problem.
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Message 10
Posted by Celtic Tiger (U2229153) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
If they are generally hard working and up to date with their school work, I would definitely let them go. Speaking as an ex-teacher, missing three days of classes is not going to be a problem for motivated students - they will easily catch up.
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Message 11
Posted by Lynetta Pavlova (U14864661) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
If they are generally hard working and up to date with their school work, I would definitely let them go. Speaking as an ex-teacher, missing three days of classes is not going to be a problem for motivated students - they will easily catch up. Â Agree.
Unless there's something really important happening at school during those days, they'll gain more by having their holiday. -
Message 12
Posted by LindaLee (U2777941) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
< In the Netherlands there are financial sanctions if your children are taken out of school during term time for 'no good reason'. Is that the case in the UK? >
Sometime last year there were plans to fine parents for taking chidlren out of school for family holidays but IIRC, there was a subsequent u-turn on that. -
Message 13
Posted by Lucretzia (U5974342) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Definitely let them go.
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Message 14
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
What Pin says. I agree that if they're motivated and already up-to-date, it won't take them long to catch up, and they can ask for extra work for their own half term to make up.
The bigger challenge will be if one of them is on top of their work, and the other isn't. -
Message 15
Posted by welshteddy (U3680635) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Thanks for the replies.
We have never taken them out of school, even for a day!
Letting them go just for one day isn't an option as it is too far away. They would be devastated if they didn't go as it has been planned since last July. The girls themselves (there are about 12 of them going) have had to plan everything - accommodation, trains, activities etc...
I feel they would gain a lot in terms of independence and 'life skills' , quite apart from having a great time!
My main worries are that middle tedlet is in GCSE year, and little tedlet has already had 7 days off this academic year with tonsillitis and asthma - very unusually I might add.
I will have to ponder some more. OH is for letting them go. -
Message 16
Posted by DeeKay Bee - Disenfranchised (U236881) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I wouldn't want L to have time off school, IIRC GCSE exams start again at the end of February so I'd consider it as an important time for (both but especially) the Y11 one. It might only be three days but it could take a few days for the giddiness to wear off when they get home, and IME they can be very tired after these breaks.
I think that the only way I might go for it is if it was the three days immediately before half term, other than that I don't think I'd be able to justify the disruption to revision etc . -
Message 17
Posted by Sir_Gladys_Gruntfuttock_deceased (U1870788) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
What reaction do you expect from the school if you let them go?
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Message 18
Posted by whitbyrose (U15069960) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Much as I wouldnt have done it ( but I know Im much more rule bound than most people about things like this) I do think that if they were away with their own school on any school trip they would be missing just as much work. The difference I suppose is if it is a planned school trip missed work would I assume be factored in whereas this may be felt to be putting the teachers out having to set work for only two children as opposed to a whole trip full. You wont know until you ask the school I suppose.
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Message 19
Posted by the_shellgrottolady (U2395646) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I think you should let them go. Its only a couple of days and might even be more productive if you umm and err a bit then say ok but you have to work extra hard to compensate.
I am a great believer in learning all sorts of things and life skills and experiences and they'll get that from the break.
Maybe they can catch up over their own half term - am sure if you explain whats happened to teachers they will help you out a bit. Maybe not. Some people are very rigid and i'm out of touch these days.
Glad your OH is for it but I certainly would let them go. it sounds as if they have put lots into it and its only 3 days.
For goodness sake let them go and enjoy it. Its life. Its important. I know exams are too but there has to be a balance.
shell -
Message 20
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
< In the Netherlands there are financial sanctions if your children are taken out of school during term time for 'no good reason'. Is that the case in the UK? >
Sometime last year there were plans to fine parents for taking chidlren out of school for family holidays but IIRC, there was a subsequent u-turn on that.Â
I think 'no good reason' should be read as 'without permission'. In most circumstances, I think my children's secondary school would have given permission in a case like this one. It is very hard for the girls that they are potentially stymied by an administrative boundary.
Quite frankly, if the exam-taker doesn't know her stuff by then I can't imagine missing three days school will make a huge difference.
Is the week before or after their own half-term week?
Dunlurkin -
Message 21
Posted by peacemaker (U14739277) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Have you told the tedlets yet? Obviously they are going to be disappointed but what will their real reaction be if you do decide to not let them go? Will they accept it calmly and rationally or go into a massive teenage strop blaming you personally.
Thinking back to mine, two probably would have accepted it and the other two might have made life very difficult.
However I do wonder what the school's position is. I know some schools used to be very strict about not taking children out for holidays.
Difficult call to make. Good luck! -
Message 22
Posted by BrightYangThing (U14627705) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Hello again WelshT
A question. If you do allow the Tedlets to go, will you be requesting authorisation for the absence from school; telling them of unauthorised absence or; lying? Sorry if that sounds harsh - but those are your three options and to some extent would colour my judgement more.
I just thought I might expand out my thinking a little. Like WhitbyR I am perhaps more 'rule bound' than many and I also look at this from several angles.
There is the obvious 'loss of curriculum time' to balance against the very positive experience and independence angle. I still suggest this is discussed with school.
There are two other angles at least that I would look at.
Firstly, is the message that putting 'social' evens (albeit very worthy ones) ahead of school/work commitments. I appreciate in your case this would be an absolute one off, and unlikely to be seen by your youngsters as a long term ok choice to make. However, if one looks at this from the point of view of a school with 100's of pupils and parents who may not have such high standards -
leading to
secondly, the broader effect of granting or accepting the absences and reasons by the school upon other such requests.
Lets call your situation Family A. Exemplary attendance record, high standard of commitment and outcomes. One off only request for 6 school days (most schools have a set 'quota' for what are known as unauthorised absences) so need to see this as a part of a whole).
Now let's look at families B, L, V who perhaps don't have quite such high standards and attendance in fact running up many days unauthorised absences to raise the schools tally. Probably they will be being called in or written to in strong terms.
Family A Tedlets take their absence and have great time (which will be known about if not before but afterwards) and Tedlets, whether absence was 'approved' or not, could find themselves resented.
For me it's not about individuals and their ability to 'catch up' or being otherwise of good character. It's about seeing and trying to understand the 'whole' school issue.
I am sorry that Tedlets would be devastated if they don't go - but hope that you all reach the 'best' solution' all round. I still think it would be best to discuss all aspects with school.
Codicil. This is just the way I would be thinking about it - not a judgement on your predicament or decision.
Possibly some of the many teachers on the MB will offer different thoughts. -
Message 23
Posted by smee (U2226513) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I'd ask the school, explaining the problem and if they're accommodating, asking about what school work needs to be done during that time.
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Message 24
Posted by solwright (U14953337) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I'm in Scotland, so the exam work is maybe different.
What caused difficulties for me as a teacher was when a pupil was absent unnecessarily when the class was preparing for an assessment, in my case a Modern Languages speaking or writing assessment, part of their Standard Grade exam (GCSE in your case), or sitting the assessment.
February was the busiest time as late March was the deadline for us.
If there are no such requirements for GCSE then maybe three days can be spared, especially as it's organised by a youth group.
I would certainly discuss it with the school and ask about the work. It might be possible for your children to catch up during their long weekend, though they will lose three days of the teachers' input which at that time of the school year could be important. -
Message 25
Posted by What larks (U14260755) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
< In the Netherlands there are financial sanctions if your children are taken out of school during term time for 'no good reason'. Is that the case in the UK? >
Sometime last year there were plans to fine parents for taking chidlren out of school for family holidays but IIRC, there was a subsequent u-turn on that. My hairdresser got fined £50 per child when she took three of them abroad just after last New Year. The school wasn't open to her excuse that she needed to work during the winter school holiday. -
Message 26
Posted by Death Where Is Thy Sting (U15017382) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Jeepers Creepers, I know I'm poking my nose in, but having read through this thread, the expression 'get a life' comes to mind. If the poor little devils had 'flu they would have been off school for more than three days. What a miserable world we live in.
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Message 27
Posted by welshteddy (U3680635) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Their half term is the week before so they could do catch up work during that week.
My inclination is to be completely upfront with the school and tell them the whole story.
I wouldn't lie or say they are sick - I would feel too guilty! -
Message 28
Posted by Pan Mustardland is where the heart is Shoshana (U14836935) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I'd work on the expectation they could go with the school's permission - if all work is up to date and with the proviso that the actual half term will be used effectively, then it seems to me there is a fair amount of bargaining to be done.
Don't know about TP's school, but the school my two older children attended forbad any time off during term time - although, in practice they did have some discretion since the only time I applied to take them out was for a funeral for friends rather than relatives, and they let the foreign boarder go early/arrive back late as need be too. -
Message 29
Posted by Sir_Gladys_Gruntfuttock_deceased (U1870788) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Their half term is the week before so they could do catch up work during that week.
My inclination is to be completely upfront with the school and tell them the whole story.
I wouldn't lie or say they are sick - I would feel too guilty! That's what I would do, welshteddy. -
Message 30
Posted by LoopyLobes (U14384399) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Their half term is the week before so they could do catch up work during that week.
My inclination is to be completely upfront with the school and tell them the whole story.
I wouldn't lie or say they are sick - I would feel too guilty! This is what I would want to do, three days isn't much in the big scheme of things and you're obviously responsible parents who will make sure that the work is made up etc. Having said that, our school is very strict and no child is allowed time off for holidays during term time. I can see the Headmaster's point, but it does lead to parents telling lies about children being sick and so on and more often than not, with Facebook and so on, they are caught out. I know of at least two sixth formers who've been booted out for going against the rules in this way. -
Message 31
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I wouldn't lie or say they are sick - I would feel too guilty!Â
Same here. But I don't see what the problem with being upfront with the school would be, and that you want to work with them for a solution. I had assumed throughout that being upfront with the school was a given. -
Message 32
Posted by welshteddy (U3680635) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
It was always a given in my mind.
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Message 33
Posted by stirling (U13732738) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
The 2 youngest tedlets have been looking forward to, and planning a holiday with a youth group for some months. It is for 3 days and is in February half term. I have realised this morning that the tedlets half term is a different week to everyone else's, as we live in a different county, and so they are at school when the trip is on.Â
Surely the person in the youth group who is organising this should have been aware of the differences in half term dates between the schools in the area? Either way I would not keep them off school - if anything it will let them experience the fact that life can often be unfair and that there will be disappointemnts but the right thing must always be done. There will be plenty of other opportunites for peer group holidays in the future. -
Message 34
Posted by Penstemon (U4429639) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
yes I would let them go.
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Message 35
Posted by LoopyLobes (U14384399) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
It would be in my mind too, never would I consider lying, but I know for a fact that our school would say a definite no. No ifs, no buts, it's in the rules and we signed an agreement on day one.
Good luck! -
Message 36
Posted by whitbyrose (U15069960) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Stirling in my experience working across several authorities at once they are generally unaware of the differing holiday dates ( although this is more of an issue for us in Scotland because of all the local holidays). I have 3 different sets of Feb half term to factor in across the 5 LA's Im currently working in and so am very aware of what a big issue it is for planning ( including when parents work in different authorities to where their children are at school and so the holidays dont match up).
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Message 37
Posted by Sir_Gladys_Gruntfuttock_deceased (U1870788) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Welshteddy, presumably the tedlets are now aware of this problem, so how have they reacted? Unfortunately, although I would certainly have a talk to the school about it and do my utmost to make a very good case for them to be allowed to go, I also wouldn't expect that to happen. I feel sure the school would refuse.
I really hope I'm wrong though. -
Message 38
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I wonder whether you could talk to the leaders of the Youth Group and ask them to write a letter for the school. This could explain how much, and what, work the Tedlets have done in preparation for the trip. It could also refer to the fact that since they are the only (?) participants in the other county no-one realised the potential hiccup until very late in the proceedings.
Some grovelling will probably also be necessary on your part as I assume that if the date had appeared unsuitable at the outset you would probably have said immediately that it was a non-starter, and them they would not have been so involved.
I too am a real stickler for the rules in such cases though on the occasions that the Autumn term ended on Friday 24 December, we did request that they be allowed to miss the last day and travel to the UK for Christmas on the Thursday night. Permission was always granted.
Dutch schools are strict, but they do allow days off for special family events, such as grandparents' 80th birthdays, close family weddings etc. (Weddings are usually on a weekday here.)
Dunlurkin -
Message 39
Posted by Lucretzia (U5974342) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
It would be in my mind too, never would I consider lying, but I know for a fact that our school would say a definite no. No ifs, no buts, it's in the rules and we signed an agreement on day one.Â
I don't know if the schools in my area are more lenient than others butmy daughter missed 3 days in her GCSE year and she certainly wasn't the only one.
It's not encouraged but it's 'allowed'. -
Message 40
Posted by Bearhug (U2258283) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Dutch schools are strict, but they do allow days off for special family events, such as grandparents' 80th birthdays, close family weddings etc. (Weddings are usually on a weekday here.)Â
I was quite surprised to discover Dutch colleagues can have an extra day off (i.e. not part of normal leave allowance) for their parents' 40th wedding anniversary. -
Message 41
Posted by welshteddy (U3680635) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
It could also refer to the fact that since they are the only (?) participants in the other county no-one realised the potential hiccup until very late in the proceedings.
Some grovelling will probably also be necessary on your part as I assume that if the date had appeared unsuitable at the outset you would probably have said immediately that it was a non-starter, and them they would not have been so involved.Â
They are indeed the only participants from our county, and you are right in that I wouldn't have agreed to it if I had realised the dates sooner. The October half term is often different but never the February one. I have now discovered that Easter holidays are different this year too!!
I will do some grovelling, and will keep in mind your idea about the letter from the leader. -
Message 42
Posted by Sister Primrose of the Red Tinsel Flag (U5405579) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I would be actively pursuing a request that the school approve the trip (including a letter and itinerary from the Youth Group - sounds like it's more of an outward bound type thing than classical tourism) but if the school said no I wouldn't let them go :0(
Part of my approach when making the request would be alternative arrangements for doing the work. I probably would get the kids to realistically talk me through where they thought potential problems lay and explore with the teachers what the options were in advance. I live by the maxim 'If you want someone to do something for you make it easy for them to do so' - by putting in a lot of effort like that it is easier for the Headteacher to distinguish your application from more frivolous ones and harder to say no to. -
Message 43
Posted by Fire-Pig - proud to wave the protest banner (U12231213) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I would go down the line Sister Primrose has suggested.
Before you talk to the school you have to know in your own mind what you are going to do if the school say No.
I hope that they can go.
F-P -
Message 44
Posted by Dunlurkin NL (U2675855) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I took it as read that if the request is refused the two Tedlets would be at school as usual on the days in question.
Furthermore, great care should be taken to ensure that they are well and present at school as any illness could seem a mite dodgy. In the event of actual absence through illness Welshted would need to provide medical evidence of the reason for absence in order to avoid any misunderstandings which could have consequences in the future.
Dunlurkin -
Message 45
Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I would be upfront with the school and hope that they eould be accommodating as long as you made sure that both tedlets up to date with work. Sounds like it could be regarded on a par with an exchange or field trip and notbjust a jolly. Make sure they are aware of the prep thatvhas gone on and the valuable life skills.
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Message 46
Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
Agree with GR.
Mine have gone to Glastonbury Festival with us (Glastonbury Festival of the Performing Arts, as I wrote in the letter asking permission, and the Ten Tors (That was during SATS - the school wasn't happy, but several of us parents of Scouts did a "class action")
Otherwise, we've always been scrupulous about not taking them on holiday in term time. -
Message 47
Posted by Eliza Bennet (U2508760) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
I only took Miss Darcy out of school once, for a day, to take her to the Tate Modern in its first week of opening. She was in Year 1 at the time so not an important year for exams or anything. When I asked the head teacher she was full of enthusiasm for it and said it would be an educational experience for her. And it was, as she still remembers it.
Talk to the school and ask for an authorised absence. If the Tedlets' school is like ours it will look at their attendance record and make the decision based on that. -
Message 48
Posted by Sister Primrose of the Red Tinsel Flag (U5405579) on Saturday, 5th January 2013
That reminded me of the time I took Girly out of her primary class to go and see West Side Story. The teacher thought it would support the class project on bullying and anti racism.
The only other times I took them out of school were to go and visit their Grandparents in the run up to Xmas - I had permission as I had a letter from my manager at work stating I would be working 12 1/2 hour day shifts on Christmas Eve and Boxing Day and it was by way of trying to compensate and make Christmas more special - a long weekend down South. Also, they also missed a day, again with permission, when my Mum and Aunt were in Scotland on a holiday and we went over to see them. Headteacher recognised it was important for children to keep as close family ties as possible given the distance we lived from their family. -
Message 49
Posted by JennyDarling Long Gone (U250754) on Sunday, 6th January 2013
That reminded me of the time I took Girly out of her primary class to go and see West Side Story. The teacher thought it would support the class project on bullying and anti racism.
The only other times I took them out of school were to go and visit their Grandparents in the run up to Xmas - I had permission as I had a letter from my manager at work stating I would be working 12 1/2 hour day shifts on Christmas Eve and Boxing Day and it was by way of trying to compensate and make Christmas more special - a long weekend down South. Also, they also missed a day, again with permission, when my Mum and Aunt were in Scotland on a holiday and we went over to see them. Headteacher recognised it was important for children to keep as close family ties as possible given the distance we lived from their family. A relative of mine, living in a different area of England, has taken her son (now 10) out of school for holidays 3 times this year (half term Feb, Spring holiday and just now, the Christmas holiday), this last one 5 days extra to the school holiday. And previous years, at least twice every year. He is not academic. The holidays are not educational ones either (trips to the Pyramids or oother archaelogical places I could understand, but not the destinations they go to). In our LEA all these holidays would be unauthorised, and my last Head threatened to take children off the register if they went away in term time. -
Message 50
Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 6th January 2013
My daughter had troubled times. Through them all she had a shining jewel in her mind. That was the school trip to London when she stayed on a boat on the Thames. It has alway sustained her and was the best time of her life.
Life is to be lived and seeking and experiencing happiness important.
I don't think 3 days absence will make a jot of difference to the children's future. The trip will make a huge difference. They will remember it forever.
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